Bjork?
Printed From: Progarchives.com
Category: Progressive Music Lounges
Forum Name: Suggest New Bands and Artists
Forum Description: Suggest, create polls, and classify new bands you would like included on Prog Archives
URL: http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=63436
Printed Date: December 02 2024 at 01:11
Software Version: Web Wiz Forums 11.01 - http://www.webwizforums.com
Topic: Bjork?
Posted By: AmbianceMan
Subject: Bjork?
Date Posted: December 08 2009 at 18:08
| I was surprised that I could not find her on this site. I enjoy Bjork from time to time and really haven't considered her anything but progressive. Is it because it's a heavy dose of electronic music? Maybe I should suggest her. Really good voice and interesting arrangements. |
Replies:
Posted By: ExittheLemming
Date Posted: December 09 2009 at 02:31
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Like all sensible nations, Iceland exports it's waste products. She gives squeaky toys a bad name. The first Sugar Cubes album was pretty good, but solo, beige pants for me.
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Posted By: Kotro
Date Posted: December 09 2009 at 04:25
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Her jazz albums before she went bonkers were rather good. But no, I'm not surprised not to find her here. ------------- Bigger on the inside. |
Posted By: Dean
Date Posted: December 09 2009 at 04:52
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Needless to say, not the first time Bjork has been suggested:
http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=59187 - http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=59187
http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=42633 - http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=42633
http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=28302 - http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=28302
------------- What? |
Posted By: debrewguy
Date Posted: December 09 2009 at 10:42
But Ray Shulman is here !  And he produced the 1st Sugarcubes album
------------- "Here I am talking to some of the smartest people in the world and I didn't even notice,” Lieutenant Columbo, episode The Bye-Bye Sky-High I.Q. Murder Case. |
Posted By: mrcozdude
Date Posted: December 09 2009 at 10:50
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I have actually lost hours of sleep over her not being inducted.PA can expect a lawsuit any time now.
------------- http://www.last.fm/user/cozfunkel/" rel="nofollow"> 
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Posted By: jampa17
Date Posted: December 09 2009 at 12:48
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strange music, strange girl... I'm not sure if strange convert you inmediately in progressive, I think not... but I can enjoy her music from time to time even if shee is not inducted... ------------- |
Posted By: Dalezilla
Date Posted: December 09 2009 at 12:51
She's miles and miles better than anything that's on PA. 
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Posted By: domizia
Date Posted: December 09 2009 at 12:54
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I agree on the first Sugarcubes record, more, this reminds me that I'd like to listen to it again now. ------------- RPI=> http://www.camelotclubprog.net" rel="nofollow - Camelot Club Prog ...but also> http://www.maracash.com" rel="nofollow - MaRaCash records. |
Posted By: Henry Plainview
Date Posted: December 09 2009 at 13:03
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Diamanda Galas is here, WHY NOT HER? ;-) ------------- if you own a sodastream i hate you |
Posted By: Dean
Date Posted: December 09 2009 at 13:52
 ------------- What? |
Henry Plainview wrote:Posted By: snobb
Date Posted: December 09 2009 at 14:08
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Originally posted by Henry Plainview Diamanda Galas is here, WHY NOT HER? ;-) Good Joke!!!!
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Posted By: AmbianceMan
Date Posted: December 10 2009 at 11:27
Seems there are a lot of people on both sides. But for some reason, she doesn't seem to be getting the time of day. I would think with a lot of people favoring her inclusion that it would at least be considered, with such a high percentage and all. I haven't heard EVERY album by her, but enough that I don't consider her mainstream in the least. There are a lot of rock type beats in her song, albeit a lot of the instrumentation is electronic, but there are quite a few symphonic/avant-garde elements as well.
I would certainly list her higher that Peter Gabriel on the prog scale, as pointed out by others.
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Posted By: Evolver
Date Posted: December 10 2009 at 12:05
She always sounds somewhat tone deaf to me. ------------- Trust me. I know what I'm doing. |
Posted By: Evolver
Date Posted: December 10 2009 at 12:06
 ------------- Trust me. I know what I'm doing. |
Posted By: Henry Plainview
Date Posted: December 10 2009 at 12:38
Well neither of them rock very hard. :P From what I've heard of Medulla, I can see the arguments for her, but I think she's too deliberately pop to fit in Crossover, and not influential enough to be in prog-related. ------------- if you own a sodastream i hate you |
Posted By: The T
Date Posted: December 10 2009 at 14:41
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She wears atrocious weird outfits... she deserves to be here...
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Posted By: mrcozdude
Date Posted: December 12 2009 at 03:09
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she's so prog.Joga doesn't have a time signature!Take that Fripp!
------------- http://www.last.fm/user/cozfunkel/" rel="nofollow">
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Posted By: Sckxyss
Date Posted: December 12 2009 at 19:15
| She's progressive pop. Seems like the prog-related category includes a lot of progressive pop as it is, so I think she'd fit well there. |
Posted By: Wiktor Hatif
Date Posted: June 03 2010 at 07:35
| Take a listen to Medulla album and say it's not progressive... Robert Wyatt even had his guest appearance there in delightful Submarine song + the whole album made almost entirely by human voices :) |
Posted By: AtomicCrimsonRush
Date Posted: June 03 2010 at 08:52
 You can expect a lawsuit from me if she is added to the progarchives too. BJORK IS NOT PROG, GET IT!!!!!!!!!! ------------- 
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Posted By: Wiktor Hatif
Date Posted: June 03 2010 at 08:55
| maybe in general she's not prog, but Medulla album is prog, and there's no doubt about it |
Posted By: AtomicCrimsonRush
Date Posted: June 03 2010 at 09:08
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why should she be listed here!
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Posted By: Wiktor Hatif
Date Posted: June 03 2010 at 09:27
| so what? this encyclopedia is an infallible bible? I'm not saying she should be listed here, but those who scream she has nothing to do with prog, should listen to Medulla. |
Posted By: GentleGiant
Date Posted: June 03 2010 at 09:46
Yes! , and that even before that there ProgArchives site. ------------- BeGiantForADay "This British band is just the cup of tea for aficionados who demand virtuosity,progress and originality in their mix." http://rateyourmusic.com/~GentleG |
Posted By: Dean
Date Posted: June 03 2010 at 09:54
------------- What? |
Posted By: Wiktor Hatif
Date Posted: June 03 2010 at 10:17
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Noone is infallible! Plus, the archive like that will never be COMPLETE, because it's impossible to get to know every little artist since 1970. What kind of attitude is this? "Bjork is not progressive because she's not listed there" - that's not an argument AT ALL. And by the way, it takes progressive thinking to find progressivity in music that was born from the different tradition - not psychedelic or progressive rock or prog electronic. Bjork doesn't sound progressive beacuse she doesn't have moog or hammond. But Medulla album is really complex and avantgarde. |
Posted By: Vompatti
Date Posted: June 03 2010 at 10:24
| But this is Prog Archives, not Avant-Garde Archives! (Although I think Stockhausen would fit here better than Björk.) |
Posted By: Wiktor Hatif
Date Posted: June 03 2010 at 10:33
| I would say "Medulla" is more progressive than every Sigur Ros album. Sigur Ros songs are really quite simple in structure and chord progression, they only experiment with "sound"... |
Posted By: Bonnek
Date Posted: June 03 2010 at 17:26
Yes, they are both very scary in their own way. |
Posted By: Falx
Date Posted: June 04 2010 at 06:19
I saw Björk live at a festival a couple of years back. She is a goddess. I'm not sure PA is worthy of Her presence  =F= ------------- "You must go beyond the limit of the limit of your limits!" - Mr. Doctor "It is our duty as men and women to proceed as though the limits of our abilities do not exist." - Pierre Teilhard de Chardin |
Posted By: AtomicCrimsonRush
Date Posted: June 05 2010 at 09:00
That should be clear enough. -------------
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Posted By: Marty McFly
Date Posted: June 05 2010 at 09:29
Scott, to ease things a little bit, Alternative can actually be Progressive. In Czech Republic, there was "mainstream" scene in 70-90s and those who didn't want to be mainstream (which meant pop) were either underground or alternative. Nowadays, alternative means what it means in "western" world, but bands like Narajama & Dunaj which were added few weeks ago (Czech bands) are called Alternative here in Czech R. :-) smile ------------- There's a point where "avant-garde" and "experimental" becomes "terrible" and "pointless," -Andyman1125 on Lulu  Even my |
Posted By: Logan
Date Posted: June 05 2010 at 10:06
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I don't know her well enough to really support her or discount her for PA, but I do expect she has merit for PA for Medulla. The highly useful prog website babyblaue-setten categories different albums of hers in different ways (some as art pop for instance), but lists her Medulla. Homogenic Live and Post Live in their New Art Rock category (along with various acts albums we have in PA, including one I added to Crossover, Zeitammu's Miroque): http://www.babyblaue-seiten.de/index.php?content=list&genrecont=43 - http://www.babyblaue-seiten.de/index.php?content=list&genrecont=43 GEPR does not include Zeittaimu in its database nor many that are in PA (not just those that are included in the "non-Prog" -- as it's sometimes referred to -- category of Prog Related, but also in our Prog categories. GEPR is very incomplete, but I do notice that it has various acts that I've wanted in PA (some that I've suggested) that did not get into PA. Every website works a little differently with different categorisations (PA has Prog and non-Prog categories). And frankly, though we have a multitude of categories and our own parameters, we often don't know or agree on how to classify things. One of my problems with the thinking here sometimes is because we end up classifying acts themselves for the site rather than on the album level (an artist can often be categorised in various different ways from album to album and quite often even when it comes to individual albums and of course different individuals classify in different ways. What is progressive rock or progressive rock-related enough to me for PA inclusion may not be to you). No one in particular here holds the ultimate truth when it comes to that. Some are more inclusive than others, and different people have different parameters for what to include and exclude. I'm more inclusive than most in some ways, and more exclusive than many in other ways, but it's important not to be easily dismissive of other's viewpoints and recognise that different perspectives and opinions can be just as valid as one's own. Anyway, I was quite impressed with what I heard of Medulla, but my Bjork fandom is most limited to her role in Dancer in the Dark (Lars von Trier fan here). ------------- https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLXcp9fYc6K4IKuxIZkenfvukL_Y8VBqzK" rel="nofollow - Duos for fave acts |
Posted By: Wiktor Hatif
Date Posted: June 05 2010 at 10:44
Well, not only role, as far as I know she wrote the entire score for that movie. In fact, primary she was only asked to write the score. One must remember that beside studio albums, there's lots of bootlegs and such where she performs with an orchestra or with more jazzy arangations. My personal favourite is a concert with string quartet (brodsky quartet). Shame that only one song from this concert has been recorded later in studio (Hyperballad). By the way, she has lately wrote the song promoting new movie based on Moomins book :) I must start a thread to find out if there are some other Moomin books' (not anime) fans around. :) ------------- "Ffffaaahhh, seeko baaaaaa Neeeeee toe, kare lo yeahhh Sa sa sa sa saa! Fssss Drrrrrrrrr bo ki! Rapateeka! do go taaaam Rapateeka! do go tchaa" - "Atom Heart Mother" Pink Floyd/Ron Geesin |
Posted By: Stupiddream
Date Posted: August 18 2010 at 04:02
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By the looks of it, some people will probably become annoyed at me reviving this thread. I have only posted a few times on here in general, but I was extremely surprised to not find Bjork here. In fact, it was only until I saw Tori Amos was on the site that I even thought to check. I thought, "Lol, Tori Amos on a prog site, that's fine and dandy, but I bet Bjork is surely on here and already inducted then because the nature of her music is far more avant-garde and progressive than Tori Amos." That alone, however, is not enough to warrant an induction however. If I could use a specific quote under Coheed and Cambria's page for example, "..one must keep in mind that the true spirit of progression is taking an already established musical idea and expanding it to create something that is new and unique." That is something that Bjork has done. She has taken pop, "electrified" it, has combined it with jazz, symphonic elements, and even weird a capella experimentation. That in spirit is what prog did to rock in the late 60s. That is why the tag "progressive pop" can make sense, only by spirit, because at first glance it seems like a contradiction, because prog more often than not strays away from popular music's elements. I have ALWAYS seen Bjork tagged as "progressive pop" on various sites that acknowledge the genre, and have no clue why she isn't at least related or something. In fact, I think she has to be crossover, as does Kate Bush, if only because Tori Amos is there. They display a higher degree of sophistication and at least creative complexity in my opinion, which the former is just seen as a common motif in crossover acts. Even if I use a site like rateyourmusic.com, which I think quite a few people on this site use, as a reference on genres, people have voted progressive pop as a secondary genre on one of Tori Amos album, no primary on any. As for Kate Bush, she has it as a secondary on all of her albums, and a primary on two of them. Bjork has it as a secondary on all but her debut, and a primary on three. I mean no harm to Tori Amos, because I do enjoy her music very much, but seriously, Kate Bush isn't part of the main umbrella, Bjork isn't even on the edge, and Tori is safely in. This makes no sense to me whatsoever. I would be fine with all three in related or crossover... If you couldn't tell I am a Bjork fanboy
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Posted By: Falx
Date Posted: August 18 2010 at 04:31
Björk started off as poppy dance music but her last few albums definitely count as progressive, in my opinion. I guess she doesn't make the cut since she can't easily be accused of ripping off early 70s British bands 
------------- "You must go beyond the limit of the limit of your limits!" - Mr. Doctor "It is our duty as men and women to proceed as though the limits of our abilities do not exist." - Pierre Teilhard de Chardin |
Posted By: Chris S
Date Posted: August 18 2010 at 04:38
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^^ That is all good. Personally I believe with the exception of her debut, each album Bjork released became more and more progressive
Post - Borderline Crossover
Homogenic - Progressive Electronic
Vespertine - Progressive Crossover/Electronic
Medulla - Progressive Electronic
Criteria for any genre is down to the teams. We all have differing opinions on what is and what is not progressive. Scott ( ACR) advocates strongly against her, I respect his view but do not agree with it. She is by far the most innovative and proactive artist to come out of Iceland. She changes her ' Template' of sound textures each release. Some even argue she should be in RIO/Avant but again it is all down to opinions. You cannot assume because one artist is included then the site must be ' de facto' standard for every other debateable artist no matter how progressive some of us feel she is. ------------- ...As I venture through the slipstream, between the viaducts in your dreams...[/COLOR] |
Posted By: Chris S
Date Posted: August 18 2010 at 04:41
------------- ...As I venture through the slipstream, between the viaducts in your dreams...[/COLOR] |
Posted By: Windhawk
Date Posted: August 18 2010 at 05:06
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Looks like we might want to add an Icelandic entry to the Crosover evaluation charts...?
------------- Websites I work with: http://www.progressor.net http://www.houseofprog.com My profile on Mixcloud: https://www.mixcloud.com/haukevind/ |
Posted By: Chris S
Date Posted: August 18 2010 at 05:10
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^ The thing is Olav, IMO she should really belong in Prog Electronic. ------------- ...As I venture through the slipstream, between the viaducts in your dreams...[/COLOR] |
Posted By: Marty McFly
Date Posted: August 18 2010 at 05:45
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But as you said earlier Chris, each team makes his own inclusion policies, or in other words - demands. And you know what demands of Prog Electronic are. ------------- There's a point where "avant-garde" and "experimental" becomes "terrible" and "pointless," -Andyman1125 on Lulu Even my |
Posted By: Chris S
Date Posted: August 18 2010 at 13:09
------------- ...As I venture through the slipstream, between the viaducts in your dreams...[/COLOR] |
Posted By: Moogtron III
Date Posted: August 18 2010 at 13:12
| She's exceptional and very talented. For me everything prog stands for, but I suppose she doesn't fit prog as defined on this site. I don't mind. But for me, personally, she stands in a direct line to the old '70's prog heroes, even if her music is more "song" - based, so to say. |
Posted By: Marty McFly
Date Posted: August 18 2010 at 14:59
I know that, but I'm not saying anything bad against Prog Electronic team, or Philippe, their leader. I'm just saying that from the look on charts, there is not so much Prog Electronic artists. There's really nothing bad about it and I'm not implying anything like that. ------------- There's a point where "avant-garde" and "experimental" becomes "terrible" and "pointless," -Andyman1125 on Lulu Even my |
Posted By: Ivan_Melgar_M
Date Posted: August 21 2010 at 01:31
Well, they have William Shatner http://www.progressiveears.com/asp/artistdir.asp?artistAlpha=S&pg=3 - http://www.progressiveears.com/asp/artistdir.asp?artistAlpha=S&pg=3 and Jerry Lee Lewis http://www.progressiveears.com/asp/artistdir.asp?artistAlpha=L&pg=2 - http://www.progressiveears.com/asp/artistdir.asp?artistAlpha=L&pg=2 also.
 So, not too reliable in seird selections.
Iván
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Posted By: Dean
Date Posted: August 21 2010 at 03:07
GEPR is not immune either for they list Pete Brown, Duncan Brown, Edgar Broughton, Clannad, Cocteau Twins, Chrome, Sandy Denny, Einstürzende Neubauten and (I could go on, there are plenty more, but I'll stop with) Spinal Tap.
So while it's amusing to point out some of the more absurd listings in PE, it doesn't prove anything - what is important is what we do, and for that it may be necessary to put aside preconceptions and prejudices and actually listen to the artist. ------------- What? |
Posted By: Windhawk
Date Posted: August 21 2010 at 03:42
Came across this one on Amazon:Avant Rock: Experimental Music from the Beatles to Bjork (Feedback (Chicago, Ill.), V. 3.) [Paperback]http://www.amazon.com/Bill-Martin/e/B001JS5H0U/ref=ntt_athr_dp_pel_1 - Bill Martin http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0812695003/gemotrack11-20/ref=nosim# - - < id="contributorASIN1" value="B001JS5H0U" =""> (Author), http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=ntt_athr_dp_sr_2?_encoding=UTF8&sort=relevancerank&search-alias=books&field-author=Robert%20Fripp - Robert Fripp (Foreword)------------- Websites I work with: http://www.progressor.net http://www.houseofprog.com My profile on Mixcloud: https://www.mixcloud.com/haukevind/ |
Posted By: Logan
Date Posted: August 21 2010 at 12:13
I don't believe that Bjork would fit in well in the Progressive Electronic category even if she has Kosmische qualities/ influence. I think she'd be better for Crossover for her Art Pop music, but that's up to the teams, of course, to determine. ------------- https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLXcp9fYc6K4IKuxIZkenfvukL_Y8VBqzK" rel="nofollow - Duos for fave acts |
Posted By: Marty McFly
Date Posted: August 21 2010 at 15:11
Indeed, that's possibility. I'm not that familiar with her work, so I would have to understand her work better before making any judgements. I just pointed out why not Prog Electronic. ------------- There's a point where "avant-garde" and "experimental" becomes "terrible" and "pointless," -Andyman1125 on Lulu Even my |
Posted By: Neu!mann
Date Posted: August 24 2010 at 12:19
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Interesting discussions here...
My own two cents (this from a veteran forum lurker) is that Bjork certainly rates a spot in the Archives, and not just for the Medulla album.
Her music isn't 'Prog' in the fossilized stylistic sense of the word, but if this is a site that claims to value musical uniqueness, individuality, and forward-thinking aesthetics, then there really isn't much of a choice, is there? And when you consider how her own musical ambitions have evolved over the years (a lot of her live music is especially inventive) I think it's fair to say she's (small 'p') progressive, no doubt.
There are plenty of other bands listed here (quite a few in the Post Rock pages) which arguably aren't in any way Prog Rock; so why the resistance to Bjork? It can't be some sort of gender bias (we hope)...maybe just a question of category? 'Prog Related' sounds fair to me. Or 'Eclectic': a word which was practically invented for Bjork...
...and besides, I know for a fact (thanks to his web diaries) that Robert Fripp is a fan: that's a better recommendation than I could ever make..! ------------- "we can change the world without anyone noticing the difference" - Franco Falsini |
Posted By: Neu!mann
Date Posted: August 24 2010 at 12:27
And the Swedish band Ritual (listed here at Prog Archives, and highly recommended for fans of Scandinavian Neo-Prog-Heavy-Folk-Whatever Rock) has devoted a lot of their music to the moominfolk! ------------- "we can change the world without anyone noticing the difference" - Franco Falsini |
Posted By: Logan
Date Posted: August 24 2010 at 12:29
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I don't think she's appropriate for Eclectic partially because she is on the art pop side (which is why I thought Crossover as a possibility, which, by the way, can equal Eclectic plus mainstream/ pop). Prog Related probably is the best place for her, but there are strict criteria that make entry very difficult.
------------- https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLXcp9fYc6K4IKuxIZkenfvukL_Y8VBqzK" rel="nofollow - Duos for fave acts |
Posted By: Windhawk
Date Posted: August 24 2010 at 13:05
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The most obvious difficulty with her inclusion is that she's famous and selling millions though. Inclusions of artists with mainstream success, for one reason or another, tends to lead to outbreaks of extremely hostile and aggressive knee jerk reactions and prophecies of how this site is leaving prog and how the world now is about to go under and Armageddon to follow. Cue Steely Dan, Journey, Metallica, Iron Maiden, Blue Oyster Cult - to name but a few such cases. ------------- Websites I work with: http://www.progressor.net http://www.houseofprog.com My profile on Mixcloud: https://www.mixcloud.com/haukevind/ |
Posted By: harmonium.ro
Date Posted: August 24 2010 at 14:12
Robert Fripp is a fan of Kayne West, so I'd say that's not a decisive argument 
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Posted By: Chris S
Date Posted: August 24 2010 at 14:20
------------- ...As I venture through the slipstream, between the viaducts in your dreams...[/COLOR] |
Posted By: Windhawk
Date Posted: August 24 2010 at 14:26
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Taking a brief checkup with the electronic team on this one. If the answer is as I surmise, she'll be on the Crossover charts for eval in a bit :-)
------------- Websites I work with: http://www.progressor.net http://www.houseofprog.com My profile on Mixcloud: https://www.mixcloud.com/haukevind/ |
Posted By: Chris S
Date Posted: August 24 2010 at 15:13
------------- ...As I venture through the slipstream, between the viaducts in your dreams...[/COLOR] |
Posted By: Marty McFly
Date Posted: August 24 2010 at 15:40
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We'll see. Most of you probably know her work, but so far, I discussed only theoretically, I don't know even one single song by her. What do people think that's her most Prog, Medulla ? And second ? ------------- There's a point where "avant-garde" and "experimental" becomes "terrible" and "pointless," -Andyman1125 on Lulu Even my |
Posted By: Logan
Date Posted: August 24 2010 at 15:55
Homogenic Live is worth a listen, I think. ------------- https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLXcp9fYc6K4IKuxIZkenfvukL_Y8VBqzK" rel="nofollow - Duos for fave acts |
Posted By: harmonium.ro
Date Posted: August 24 2010 at 16:00
Yes, but would you add him to PA because Fripp likes him? |
Posted By: Windhawk
Date Posted: August 24 2010 at 16:16
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No matter what the outcome might be, at least this and a few other discussion threads where this artist has come up merits an evaluation. If not for anything else than to be able to document that this is a case previously handled. And speaking of people Fripp likes, what about his wife? She's got quite a musical pedigree as well from what I understand. ------------- Websites I work with: http://www.progressor.net http://www.houseofprog.com My profile on Mixcloud: https://www.mixcloud.com/haukevind/ |
Posted By: Dean
Date Posted: August 24 2010 at 17:01
http://www.progarchives.com/album.asp?id=9611 - http://www.progarchives.com/album.asp?id=9611
http://www.progarchives.com/album.asp?id=9610 - http://www.progarchives.com/album.asp?id=9610 ------------- What? |