The Jedi Order vs. Dumbledore's Army
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Topic: The Jedi Order vs. Dumbledore's Army
Posted By: horsewithteeth11
Subject: The Jedi Order vs. Dumbledore's Army
Date Posted: October 28 2009 at 21:42
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I just saw a huge debate on this on someone's facebook profile, and I thought I would ask PA for some answers. If you vote, explanations of why you picked your choice would be appreciated.  I for one love Star Wars to death, but I honestly think Jedi would have no chance in this fight. The wizards/mages can teleport at will (Apparition), polymorph any object (Transfiguration), and have power words 'kill' and 'stun' (Avada Kedavra and Crucio). As good as the Jedi are at jumping around, wielding lightsabers, and piloting starcraft, they have no chance against an opponent that can kill them on sight. ------------- 
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Replies:
Posted By: VanderGraafKommandöh
Date Posted: October 28 2009 at 21:52
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Does this include Dumbledore... 'cause erm... didn't he like... erm... die?
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Posted By: horsewithteeth11
Date Posted: October 28 2009 at 21:53
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It does not include Dumbledore.
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Posted By: Henry Plainview
Date Posted: October 28 2009 at 21:59
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It doesn't matter if they have a kill spell, I'm pretty sure the Force lets them save vs. death with ease. In fact, I would bet that all of the Jedi's saving throws are extremely high. So Jedi win for having a weapon that can physically do something regardless of your target's stats. ------------- if you own a sodastream i hate you |
Posted By: horsewithteeth11
Date Posted: October 28 2009 at 22:02
Yeah, part of the debate was about the Jedi having higher Wisdom and Dex, among higher stats overall. Plus they do have X-wings, and I don't care if you can cast the best mage armor spell on brooms, they don't do anything against laser cannons and proton torpedoes. You're making me re-evaluate my original opinion now. -------------
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Henry Plainview wrote:Posted By: Henry Plainview
Date Posted: October 28 2009 at 22:13
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And the Force itself is basically magic, which allows it to do most of the things you described (is KOTOR canon?), plus lightsabers. So the question is: if we're in a corridor, with the benefits of Force Speed, would a Harry Potter wizard be able to cast a debilitating spell in time that the Jedi does not save vs? With the exception of the upper wizards who could cast level 9 spells, I don't think so. Although a bonus to Harry Potter is that they have guns, which are far more efficient that blasters. Those "lasers" don't move very fast, could a Jedi block a bullet? I really couldn't say.
Now, what about a Cleric vs a Jedi? Drawing on the power of the Universe is one thing, but clerics have an immortal deity on their side. The universe is cold and unfeeling. ------------- if you own a sodastream i hate you |
Posted By: A Person
Date Posted: October 28 2009 at 22:16
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If it is a fight on foot, DA (lol like in the books amirite?) would win. If the jedi's could use their awesome ships 'n' stuff they would win. I've always wondered why wizards don't carry guns. It would be a good surprise tactic, no wizard would think of being shot by one, and a gun is certainly powerful enough to mortally injure, if not kill, a wizard. |
Posted By: Henry Plainview
Date Posted: October 28 2009 at 22:19
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Guns are uncouth and can be traced. You can't trace magic.
Also, while you say that wizards would win, would you be willing to admit that they're totally unbalanced and need to be nerfed? I think every character in the series fails his saving throw when they get spelled, and that's just unrealistic. Dice have twenty sides! ------------- if you own a sodastream i hate you |
Posted By: A Person
Date Posted: October 28 2009 at 22:24
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If it is just Harry & co fighting, they would have a hard time fighting jedis. If grown ups who know what they are doing are fighting, then I would pick them, due to the fact they can do nearly anything they want/need without anyone knowing what they are about to do. I wonder how well a jedi/wizard could withstand a nuclear bomb. |
Posted By: horsewithteeth11
Date Posted: October 28 2009 at 22:24
KOTOR is canon I believe. To put it simply, the Jedi have their full arsenal and the wizards have their full arsenal. -------------
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Posted By: horsewithteeth11
Date Posted: October 28 2009 at 22:28
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Henry, there are sniper rifle blasters, so I guess the speed of the laser depends on the type of blaster. I'd also think most of the Jedi would be able to block the bullets without even needing a lightsaber (Vader blocked Han's blaster shots with his hand for example) but some of the lower-level Jedi probably would not survive guns. -------------
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Posted By: A Person
Date Posted: October 28 2009 at 22:29
| So the wizards have the ability to use dragons/basilisks w/e they have at their disposal? A basilisk could take out tons of jedi before it's brought down, all it has to do is look at them. |
Posted By: horsewithteeth11
Date Posted: October 28 2009 at 22:32
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But Jedi don't need to use their eyes. They could fight blind and use the Force to "see" for them. So a few Jedi could easily take down a basilisk. And Jedi can jump high enough to engage flying dragons and some would surely be powerful enough to hold back a dragon's fire breath. -------------
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Posted By: Henry Plainview
Date Posted: October 28 2009 at 22:32
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I don't think basilisks count on the wizard side, they're really rare and I don't think you can just summon them like a D&D summon.
Woah, I don't remember that happening. ------------- if you own a sodastream i hate you |
Posted By: A Person
Date Posted: October 28 2009 at 22:35
True, but they wouldn't know not to look until they have already looked. They would be more of a distraction, while the Jedi fight them the wizards should be attacking the Jedi as well. Jedi have lots of cool tech. though, they would most likely be able to set up turrets of some sort. |
Posted By: A Person
Date Posted: October 28 2009 at 22:38
It is on episode V: The Empire Strikes Back. After they find out Lando betrays them when he takes Han, Leia, C3PO and R2D2 to Vader, Han shoots at Vader, and he blocks the shots and sucks the blaster out of his hand. |
Posted By: VanderGraafKommandöh
Date Posted: October 28 2009 at 22:41
You're right, this is a geeky subject. 
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Posted By: stonebeard
Date Posted: October 28 2009 at 22:53
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The Jedi. If you even have to ask....just..... 
------------- http://soundcloud.com/drewagler" rel="nofollow - My soundcloud. Please give feedback if you want! |
Posted By: Henry Plainview
Date Posted: October 28 2009 at 22:54
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Hm, I don't think any other Jedi block blaster bolts, but maybe I'm wrong.
And don't you think Jedi could figure out some way to get Stone to Flesh going? ;-) ------------- if you own a sodastream i hate you |
Posted By: Vompatti
Date Posted: October 29 2009 at 02:00
| I'm not an expert on this, but I'd imagine that the Force is incompatible with the forces that wizards make use of. If it was a fair fight, it would take place in a universe whose nature is unfamiliar to both sides, and in that case the winners would be the ones that could figure out how to control the forces in that universe, and they would probably be the wizards. On the other hand, there's a chance that the Jedis might kill the wizards with lightsabers before they could cast a single spell. |
Posted By: Epignosis
Date Posted: October 29 2009 at 06:56
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All I remember is how in The Prisoner of Azkhban (or whatever it is), Harry & co have a time traveling device, and during their mission panic because if they fail it would mean disaster (or something like that). I'm like, "Why the worry?" If you fail, you've got a time traveling device. Say, "Aw f**k it. Let's try again" until you get it right! ------------- https://epignosis.bandcamp.com/album/a-month-of-sundays" rel="nofollow - https://epignosis.bandcamp.com/album/a-month-of-sundays |
Posted By: Vompatti
Date Posted: October 29 2009 at 07:30
| Even if they have a time travelling device, they can't travel back in time "until they get it right." There's a limit to how many temporal parts of them are going to fit in the same space. If they travelled back many times (every time to a slightly different place) their temporal parts would fill the space at certain moments so that there would be no room for them to move. |
Posted By: Epignosis
Date Posted: October 29 2009 at 07:52
Which of course means time travel is a stupid concept anyway. ------------- https://epignosis.bandcamp.com/album/a-month-of-sundays" rel="nofollow - https://epignosis.bandcamp.com/album/a-month-of-sundays |
Posted By: TheCaptain
Date Posted: October 29 2009 at 12:53
Well, all Time Turners are destroyed at the end of book 5 which is the same book DA formed. If you use the short time frame when DA could use time turners to help then you'd be looking at a very inexperienced ragtag group of wizards and I'm sure the Jedi Order would have no problem taking them out. As Vompatti mentioned, the two worlds do not operate on the same level. Would a shield charm reflect The Force? Can a lightsaber deflect a spell? These are questions that need to be answered. Someone said blaster shots travel slowly but that's nothing compared to the speed of a spell. Harry and co have dodged many spells which leads you to believe there is sufficient time for reaction. While the Jedi deflect blasters like no one's business, this is due to their crazy Jedi reflexes and not necessarily the slowness of the beam. No non-Jedi ever is able to dodge a beam and the fact that we can see them as well as we do is probably due more to artistic license than anything else. Lastly is the size of both groups. Dumbledore's Army is incredibly small, only a few dozen or so. The Jedi Order (pre-Jedi extermination) is easily a couple hundred. The Force is a bit nebulous when it comes to what it can and can't do and how it works. It's far easier to guess if something can be done in the HP world of magic than it is in the Star Wars world of The Force. My conclusion is not an open and shut case one way or the other. There exists a special potion called "Felix Felicis" or liquid luck. ***Spoilers*** In book 7 before the final battle Ginny, Hermione and Ron all take a little bit of Felix Felicis. The book makes it seem as though this played a key factor in saving all of their skins by being lucky enough to just barely be out of harm's way. If the battle between DA and the Jedi Order is relatively short (not much more than a day), then DA would probably win. The relatively short battle while banning the liquid luck would probably result in a Jedi win. A long war would probably result in a DA win because their is a Fidelius Charm. Basically a certain location is made completely invisible and unable to be penetrated unless the Secret-Keeper tells someone. This allows one person Basically DA could make someone their secret keeper, have a whole bunch of wizards apparate to a place with a few Jedi, pick them off then retreat to their base and plan the next guerilla attack. Bottom line as I've made arguments for both sides. I think a fair fight between a fully-trained wizard and a fully-trained Jedi would go to the wizard because long-range attacks and the versatility of magic give them the edge. The entire Jedi Order vs Dumbledore's Army anytime during the Harry Potter series (with the exception of the epilogue) would have the Jedi winning out. However the entire point is moot as the two groups are good and would never fight each other. ------------- Curse your sudden but inevitable betrayal. |
Posted By: Epignosis
Date Posted: October 29 2009 at 12:55
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You need a friend.
------------- https://epignosis.bandcamp.com/album/a-month-of-sundays" rel="nofollow - https://epignosis.bandcamp.com/album/a-month-of-sundays |
Posted By: Henry Plainview
Date Posted: October 29 2009 at 13:03
------------- if you own a sodastream i hate you |
Posted By: TheCaptain
Date Posted: October 29 2009 at 13:06
... ------------- Curse your sudden but inevitable betrayal. |
Posted By: horsewithteeth11
Date Posted: October 29 2009 at 23:33
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To respond to a few TheCaptian's comments... Jedi can block most blaster bolts not just because of their own rediculous hand-eye coordination and manual dexterity skills, but because the Force helps either move them to block the bolts or gives the the necessary time to react to shots coming at them. Also, I would think that The Force is much closer to be infinite in power than magic is. Dumbledore told Harry in one of the books (can't remember which one) that there is no spell that can bring someone back to life. Whereas there are several canonical examples of people returning from the grave (Palpatine for example, although he had several clones constructed for himself as vessels for his soul, so that's kind of cheating) due to the power of the Force. And Vader said in A New Hope that "the ability to destroy a planet is insignificant next to the power of the Force". Not to mention the fact that Anakin Skywalker was conceived no by a human male, but what I suspect is The Force impregnating his mother based on several clues given in Episode I. Which leads me to think that magic has a certain finite limit, whereas the Force is nearly infinite. Lastly, the Filex Felicis charm is also limited to an extent. It wears off over time, and while it does make you quite lucky, I still don't think that it would boost the wizards' stats high enough to overtake the Jedi's saving throws of any variety. I mean, it might make their Charisma high enough that they get a few lucky hits in on the Jedi, but not much more. Luck only gets you so far anyway. Ignore Epi. He is too small-minded to understand such a nerdy debate.  -------------
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Posted By: A Person
Date Posted: October 30 2009 at 00:38
| I still think wizards would have a good chance of beating Jedi, but there is no way of knowing how the Force and Magic would interact. |
Posted By: mrcozdude
Date Posted: October 30 2009 at 00:41
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I'd like to see Yoda & Golem battle in a game of tiddlywinks
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