List manipulation?
Printed From: Progarchives.com
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Forum Description: Let us know about inappropriate reviews, posts, PMs, etc.
URL: http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=57222
Printed Date: February 16 2025 at 23:09
Software Version: Web Wiz Forums 11.01 - http://www.webwizforums.com
Topic: List manipulation?
Posted By: Soul Dreamer
Subject: List manipulation?
Date Posted: April 17 2009 at 09:40
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I was looking at the new Gazpacho album, and saw there is one rating with 1 star. I can't believe somebody can rate that album that low, so I checked the user to see what he rated more. This is what I found: http://www.progarchives.com/Collaborators.asp?id=23553 All Pink Floyd albums rated at 5*, TD's Phaedra also 5*, and the rest (all Genesis, Yes, Rush, etc etc...) 1* All ratings without review... Looks like a clear case of (attempt at) list manipulation.... ------------- To be the one who seeks so I may find .. (Metallica) |
Replies:
Posted By: Mr ProgFreak
Date Posted: April 17 2009 at 09:43
I'd say: All is fair in love, war and ratings.
------------- https://tagyourmusic.org/users/Mike" rel="nofollow - https://tagyourmusic.org/users/Mike |
Posted By: Ricochet
Date Posted: April 17 2009 at 09:46
Incidentally, something has happen, so that Tick Tock is in the top 20 albums ALL-TIME with just 25 ratings. 
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Posted By: Soul Dreamer
Date Posted: April 17 2009 at 09:52
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^^^ Yes, but that's just a consequence of the used algorithm...It will go down when more serious (collaborators) reviews are posted. I didn't post this complaint because I want to see Gazpacho high, but just because I think it's crazy that only PF would be 5* and all the rest garbage... The person clearly wants to see the PF albums high in the charts....
------------- To be the one who seeks so I may find .. (Metallica) |
Posted By: Finnforest
Date Posted: April 17 2009 at 10:09
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I agree that such blatant fanboy-ism should be nuked when it is this obvious. We should have a SC in charge of sniffing out such attempts to manipulate, and that person should have the power to take action swiftly and nuke the account (under the fast approval of Admin of course, until the person's judgement is trustworthy). Unfortunately I doubt this will happen. ------------- ...that moment you realize you like "Mob Rules" better than "Heaven and Hell" |
Posted By: Mr ProgFreak
Date Posted: April 17 2009 at 12:33
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^ Of course I agree that those ratings can hardly be taken seriously ... but where do you draw the line? I've seen many collabs give 1 star to albums that are firmly in the 4-5 stars range with broad support from normal members and collabs ... should we nuke those "hateboys" too? ------------- https://tagyourmusic.org/users/Mike" rel="nofollow - https://tagyourmusic.org/users/Mike |
Posted By: Epignosis
Date Posted: April 17 2009 at 12:48
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The only way a person can successfully "manipulate" ratings (other than by creating multiple accounts or hacking into the system) is quite simply if no one else rates or reviews albums. Those "rebel" ratings can be just as valid (I've given my share of 1, 2, and 3 star reviews to "masterpieces"), and they will only have a huge impact if an album has very few reviews. Otherwise, the system will eventually correct itself, and those one or two "off-the-wall" ratings won't matter so much. ------------- https://epignosis.bandcamp.com/album/a-month-of-sundays" rel="nofollow - https://epignosis.bandcamp.com/album/a-month-of-sundays |
Posted By: Easy Livin
Date Posted: April 17 2009 at 12:48
| Will be checked out, thanks for reporting. Remember though that ratings without reviews have much reduced influence on the ratings calculations. |
Posted By: Ricochet
Date Posted: April 17 2009 at 12:53
It's because of the current algorithm that Gazpacho's album, with just 25 ratings, is among 20-30 albums with more than 400-500 ratings?!  -------------
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Soul Dreamer wrote:Posted By: Epignosis
Date Posted: April 17 2009 at 12:57
Must be one helluva album!  I like what Gazpacho I've heard, so I should get this when I can.------------- https://epignosis.bandcamp.com/album/a-month-of-sundays" rel="nofollow - https://epignosis.bandcamp.com/album/a-month-of-sundays |
Posted By: Ricochet
Date Posted: April 17 2009 at 13:22
Their 2007 album was in my top 10, as far as I remember, so, yeah, I'll be looking after Tick Tock.  -------------
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Posted By: Negoba
Date Posted: April 17 2009 at 13:26
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What I've heard is good enough....but not 4.80 good.....maybe 4.05 or so.....listening to some tracks now. ------------- You are quite a fine person, and I am very fond of you. But you are only quite a little fellow, in a wide world, after all. |
Posted By: Epignosis
Date Posted: April 17 2009 at 13:36
Well, when you're ready, rate it accordingly, and eventually the album will fall in its rightful place. ------------- https://epignosis.bandcamp.com/album/a-month-of-sundays" rel="nofollow - https://epignosis.bandcamp.com/album/a-month-of-sundays |
Posted By: Negoba
Date Posted: April 17 2009 at 13:43
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I intend to, but I also like to give it some time because first impressions (especially in prog) can be pretty skewed. If I end up giving it a 4 as I suspect, it will make very little difference. But I have some more listens first and a few other albums ahead of it in the queue. ------------- You are quite a fine person, and I am very fond of you. But you are only quite a little fellow, in a wide world, after all. |
Posted By: micky
Date Posted: April 17 2009 at 13:57
ehhh... it's like that other album we talked abou the eclectic thread.. that is also way up there that no one might have seen or noticed. If 20 or 25 rate it.. and nearly all give it 5 stars.. where else should it be but near the top of the charts. All it takes a bad collab rating or two to knock that high high average rating down. Gazpaucho is known.. it probably will settle ..balance out.... .the other album? Who outside of Poland and the two of us have heard it ------------- The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip |
Posted By: Logan
Date Posted: April 17 2009 at 15:04
| I'm surprised to see an album in the top ten (Gazpacho's) with only four reviews. It has 23 ratings without reviews (mind you, one of those ratings is ProgLucky's so that makes a difference). |
Posted By: micky
Date Posted: April 17 2009 at 15:13
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I'm not... but that's why I've suggested letting everyone has their voice.. their say.. their ratings and reviews. but only using collab reviews to do the site's album lists. some of the benefits... encourage people to write reviews... write good ones... and get promoted to where their reviews count if influencing the rankings matters that much. eliminates manipulation.... manipulating collabs soon lose the ability to manipulate.. and also being a collab. ------------- The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip |
Posted By: Epignosis
Date Posted: April 17 2009 at 15:20
I think that punishes the 95% of the non-collaborators who give a sh*t about what they do. ------------- https://epignosis.bandcamp.com/album/a-month-of-sundays" rel="nofollow - https://epignosis.bandcamp.com/album/a-month-of-sundays |
Posted By: Negoba
Date Posted: April 17 2009 at 15:20
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You mean if I keep rating my fanboy albums like Foxtrot and CTTE 5 stars I'm going to be demoted? ------------- You are quite a fine person, and I am very fond of you. But you are only quite a little fellow, in a wide world, after all. |
Posted By: micky
Date Posted: April 17 2009 at 15:35
punishing? I think that is getting into the realm of melodramatic. I'm not the one crying about the album lists... I learned to ignore them years ago. Some are though.. and if people want rankings and lists that mean something... let the professional reviewers influence them. If one isn't one... then try to become one. Otherwise no one is punished.. anyone and everyone can review albums. If someone is upset about not being able to manipulate the charts.. then most likely they are reviewing for the wrong reasons anyway.------------- The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip |
Posted By: Raff
Date Posted: April 17 2009 at 15:44
Well, I should be demoted way before you are, because I have an absolutely staggering amount of 5-star reviews - many of which are positively fanboyish in tone ! |
Posted By: micky
Date Posted: April 17 2009 at 15:48
ahhh.. but that is only half of it... tell them about your DT reviews  ------------- The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip |
Posted By: Raff
Date Posted: April 17 2009 at 15:55
| My DT reviews are quite fair, I believe... I am not in the habit of writing reviews in order to bash a band I don't like, and, as a matter of fact, my only one-star review so far is of a band I love - Deep Purple's Who Do We Think We Are. If I really dislike an album, chances are I won't review it.. I am no saint, but mindless bashing is something that really rubs me the wrong way. |
Posted By: micky
Date Posted: April 17 2009 at 16:00
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yepper.... that is what makes site reviewers good judges for those lists... many... in fact nearly all can look past their petty likes and dislikes.. and actually review the album. of course.. unless M@X decides to step in because that suggestion has never gone anywhere and probably isn't going to happen.. the question is ...what to do to avoid this problem... Gazpacho will be corrected... those who read this thread see there is another example. .one that won't be corrected. I won't review it.. the only reason I would be to explicitedly manipulate the ratings.. because I listened to it.. and it is a good album.. but NOT anywhere near the top 50. if an album doesn't have a minimum of 5 collab reviews.. it doesn't belong in the top 100 albums. Easy... if 5 collabs here don't know of it.. or bother to review it... it doesn't belong in the top 100 on this site. ------------- The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip |
Posted By: Negoba
Date Posted: April 17 2009 at 16:07
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One of the hard things is that weaker albums, I'm less inclined to spend the time to fully evaluate. I recently looked at my list and saw all the 4 and 5 star reviews, realized it was skewed, and wondered what to do.
I went through the collection of old stuff, but it's half of the albums I'd give 1-3 stars I gave away years ago and I'm certainly not paying money twice for them. If I can stream it on last.fm and remember, then maybe.
At the same time, there are alot of albums I just love, but don't think are masterpieces. I give them a 4 and it actually brings down their rating. I supposed it averages out, but if I were to rate based on what I wanted the ranking to be rather than what I felt the album deserved, I'd be chasing myself silly. ------------- You are quite a fine person, and I am very fond of you. But you are only quite a little fellow, in a wide world, after all. |
Posted By: Epignosis
Date Posted: April 17 2009 at 16:15
I specifically tried to avoid the word "punishes" precisely because I knew that's what you'd say. But I'm 7-8 beers in, so oh well. Rankings and reviews mean a lot to me, because it helps me compose and prioritize my wish list. And I value the well-thought-out reviews of non-collabs (honestly, I can predict how some collabs will rate things based on talking to them for so long). You like Italian caterwauling. I know that now.  But seriously, I like what we have here. I think the algorithms in place are sound. A few sh*tty ratings by haters won't stop one powerful review from a collaborator. ------------- https://epignosis.bandcamp.com/album/a-month-of-sundays" rel="nofollow - https://epignosis.bandcamp.com/album/a-month-of-sundays |
Posted By: Raff
Date Posted: April 17 2009 at 16:15
| The other day I went through my 5-star reviews, and decided to knock a star off three or four of those albums. I will also have to edit my reviews somewhat, but that won't be too much of a problem. Personally, I believe it is a good thing when we can look back at what we wrote in the past, and realise there is room for improvement. |
Posted By: Epignosis
Date Posted: April 17 2009 at 16:18
I've done that myself. Mirage by Camel was the first to lose it's fifth star. ------------- https://epignosis.bandcamp.com/album/a-month-of-sundays" rel="nofollow - https://epignosis.bandcamp.com/album/a-month-of-sundays |
Posted By: micky
Date Posted: April 17 2009 at 16:20
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oh definitely... I adjust ratings .. up or down.. all the time as time goes on.. as the group does more work.. I get more familiar with an artist or what other collabs say might jog something for me or enlighten me. I know I've dropped DT .. raised Battiato.. dropped Ubi Maior.. will raise Decemberists' Crane Wife to 4 stars.
------------- The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip |
Posted By: Negoba
Date Posted: April 17 2009 at 16:23
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Do I have to be a collaborator before I can edit my reviews or have a prog biography? A few of my early ones need some, er, redrafting.------------- You are quite a fine person, and I am very fond of you. But you are only quite a little fellow, in a wide world, after all. |
Posted By: micky
Date Posted: April 17 2009 at 16:25
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you should Jay.. be able to do all that AS a Prog Reviewer. If you need to know how.. just drop me a PM'er... pretty easy to do.
------------- The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip |
Posted By: Logan
Date Posted: April 17 2009 at 16:26
And one crappy rating by a collab can have a profound effect on the overall rating where there are a number of powerful reviews by non-collabs. Oh the potential power! At least if you abuse it, you're liable to lose it. |
Posted By: Epignosis
Date Posted: April 17 2009 at 16:27
I am tempted to give The Crane Wife 5 stars. The only thing holding me back is that about half of it isn't prog. But then again, neither is Minstrel in the Gallery, and I rated that 5 easy.......hmmm... ------------- https://epignosis.bandcamp.com/album/a-month-of-sundays" rel="nofollow - https://epignosis.bandcamp.com/album/a-month-of-sundays |
Posted By: Raff
Date Posted: April 17 2009 at 16:29
No, as a PR, you can edit your reviews to your heart's content! |
Posted By: micky
Date Posted: April 17 2009 at 16:30
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I did something rare.. very rare for me.. and that was review an album before I knew the group... I hedged and went 3 stars (for the site) when I first reviewed ... loved the album. but wasn't sure where it fit in with where they had been.. or of course where they were going with the the next album (HoL). Since I've reviewed it I've pretty much covered all they've done and feel better moving them up... saving the 5 star for HoL. I agree with that review I posted... best ..bar none.. concept album (rock opera) I've ever heard. Smokes the more celebrated entries like Tommy and the Wall. The music is better.. the story is MILES above those.
------------- The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip |
Posted By: Raff
Date Posted: April 17 2009 at 16:32
In my very humble opinion, being prog or not should not be grounds from refraining from a 5-star rating. Many of my 5-star reviews are of prog-related albums. What I generally do is mention the 'prog quotient' of the album in the final paragraph, so that people won't mistake any of those albums for the second coming of Foxtrot or Close to the Edge . |
Posted By: micky
Date Posted: April 17 2009 at 16:34
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another reason why ratings are meaningless as far as the site.... they mean something different to each person..
------------- The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip |
Posted By: The Quiet One
Date Posted: April 17 2009 at 16:35
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^indeed, your SFaM review is a clear example of that
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Posted By: micky
Date Posted: April 17 2009 at 16:36
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and yes Rob... I gave The Crane Wife 5 personal stars.. but for the site...it will be 4 stars. there were songs I didn't think reflected a true 5 star prog album. Now the Hazards of Love is a different monster... I laugh at those that try to myspace it... it is a complete album song cycle.. you can't just listen to a portion of it.
------------- The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip |
Posted By: Epignosis
Date Posted: April 17 2009 at 16:36
Nay, Micky, that's what makes them valuable! I ignore ratings without reviews. But I read reviews before buying albums. So far, I've only been screwed a half dozen times or so. ------------- https://epignosis.bandcamp.com/album/a-month-of-sundays" rel="nofollow - https://epignosis.bandcamp.com/album/a-month-of-sundays |
Posted By: micky
Date Posted: April 17 2009 at 16:37
but it is consistent.... I didn't like the album.. does this mean it is NOT a masterpiece (or near) of prog metal??? ------------- The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip |
Posted By: The Quiet One
Date Posted: April 17 2009 at 16:37
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I ignore reviews without ratings
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Posted By: Epignosis
Date Posted: April 17 2009 at 16:37
And see, that's why reviews are important. As a rule, I don't rate prog-related albums a 5, but there are a couple of rare exceptions. ------------- https://epignosis.bandcamp.com/album/a-month-of-sundays" rel="nofollow - https://epignosis.bandcamp.com/album/a-month-of-sundays |
Posted By: The Quiet One
Date Posted: April 17 2009 at 16:39
I know Micky.... Just joking around... Anyways, that's why it's difficult to rate a album for me sometimes, it depends with which point of view I'm writing the review, sometimes in a more objective side, but always keeping the subjective dominating it, while sometimes the subjective side goes out of hand |
Posted By: The Quiet One
Date Posted: April 17 2009 at 16:40
Zep's IV, yeah we know  |
Posted By: micky
Date Posted: April 17 2009 at 16:43
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hahah. .yeah.. I gave LZ IV 3 stars.. and was proud to.. in fact.. the only album I've reviewed that I gave 3 or 4 different ratings for hahhaha. For the site.. it got ..and deserved 3 stars.
------------- The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip |
Posted By: Epignosis
Date Posted: April 17 2009 at 16:47
And I own absolutely no Deep Purple.  ------------- https://epignosis.bandcamp.com/album/a-month-of-sundays" rel="nofollow - https://epignosis.bandcamp.com/album/a-month-of-sundays |
Posted By: micky
Date Posted: April 17 2009 at 16:48
you DON"T?  man... you are missing out..
------------- The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip |
Posted By: The Quiet One
Date Posted: April 17 2009 at 16:50
You're missing the good stuff man, if you want, don't trust me, but at least trust Micky, he's a wise man Gillan/Hughes/Coverdale >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Hogweed..ughh....I meant Plant.. |
Posted By: micky
Date Posted: April 17 2009 at 16:52
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bah... not wise.... just love heavy proggin' god I love the sound of a Hammond Organ ------------- The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip |
Posted By: The Quiet One
Date Posted: April 17 2009 at 16:55
hey! What's up with everyone saying the opposite of what I say |
Posted By: micky
Date Posted: April 17 2009 at 16:59
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hahha.. here.. have a heartie edit.. remember.. there is no crying in prog ------------- The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip |
Posted By: The Quiet One
Date Posted: April 17 2009 at 17:00
 hehe... EDIT: If not, what? Come on, bring Dean on! |
Posted By: Epignosis
Date Posted: April 17 2009 at 17:13
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I have a Whitesnake album. Does that count?
------------- https://epignosis.bandcamp.com/album/a-month-of-sundays" rel="nofollow - https://epignosis.bandcamp.com/album/a-month-of-sundays |
Posted By: The Quiet One
Date Posted: April 17 2009 at 17:14
| ^depends on which.. |
Posted By: micky
Date Posted: April 17 2009 at 17:15
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hahhaha.. yeah... that is a BIG depends....
------------- The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip |
Posted By: Epignosis
Date Posted: April 17 2009 at 17:16
I guess that's a no. ------------- https://epignosis.bandcamp.com/album/a-month-of-sundays" rel="nofollow - https://epignosis.bandcamp.com/album/a-month-of-sundays |
Posted By: The Quiet One
Date Posted: April 17 2009 at 17:17
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^I bet it's their s/t, or.....Good to be Bad? nah... my bets are on s/t.. |
Posted By: micky
Date Posted: April 17 2009 at 17:22
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IN THE STILL OF THE NIIIIIIIIIIIIIGHT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
------------- The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip |
Posted By: The Quiet One
Date Posted: April 17 2009 at 17:23
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Here YOU go again, spamming on your own
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Posted By: Epignosis
Date Posted: April 17 2009 at 17:23
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Nope. This:  ------------- https://epignosis.bandcamp.com/album/a-month-of-sundays" rel="nofollow - https://epignosis.bandcamp.com/album/a-month-of-sundays |
Posted By: micky
Date Posted: April 17 2009 at 17:24
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going down the only road I've ever known
------------- The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip |
Posted By: micky
Date Posted: April 17 2009 at 17:25
how much ozone do you think was killed during that photo shoot... btw.. don't let Mandy see that pic... ------------- The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip |
Posted By: The Quiet One
Date Posted: April 17 2009 at 17:27
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^hahahahahaha let me check Wiki what songs it contains....though from the cover already, it's obvious, that the majority will be their 80's popular stuff.. I was right, lol If you can, and want of course, check out Ready an' Willing by them, it's really good, to say the least. |
Posted By: Raff
Date Posted: April 17 2009 at 17:31
| It's a pity that such a great band went down the Hair Metal route.... Their late Seventies-early Eighties stuff was pure masterliness, as Rico would say! |
Posted By: Epignosis
Date Posted: April 17 2009 at 17:35
Sorry, but I've got about 500 albums in line before Whitesnake. ------------- https://epignosis.bandcamp.com/album/a-month-of-sundays" rel="nofollow - https://epignosis.bandcamp.com/album/a-month-of-sundays |
Posted By: micky
Date Posted: April 17 2009 at 17:36
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once I sat in with a band called Littlesnake for a gig... I really didn't fit in though...
------------- The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip |
Posted By: micky
Date Posted: April 17 2009 at 17:37
hopefully there is some Deep Purple on that list  ------------- The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip |
Posted By: Epignosis
Date Posted: April 17 2009 at 17:37
A pic for Pablo: ------------- https://epignosis.bandcamp.com/album/a-month-of-sundays" rel="nofollow - https://epignosis.bandcamp.com/album/a-month-of-sundays |
Posted By: micky
Date Posted: April 17 2009 at 17:38
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hahhaha.. that will make him happy
------------- The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip |
Posted By: Epignosis
Date Posted: April 17 2009 at 17:40
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It's too damn big. I tried resizing it.
------------- https://epignosis.bandcamp.com/album/a-month-of-sundays" rel="nofollow - https://epignosis.bandcamp.com/album/a-month-of-sundays |
Posted By: micky
Date Posted: April 17 2009 at 17:42
old age sucks....forever young at the Archives.. plus... we just love the stach... ------------- The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip |
Posted By: The Quiet One
Date Posted: April 17 2009 at 18:40
Great pic Rob, does that mean you went to see them or him? And, yeah, that pic Micky, is classic. And yeah, I know Rob you got a lot of stuff before Whitesnake, but if you ever see it cheap on vinyl or CD, and you want something fresh, it won't dissapoint you. (Ready an' Willing I'm talking about, of course) |
Posted By: Dean
Date Posted: April 17 2009 at 18:44
 ------------- What? |
Posted By: The Quiet One
Date Posted: April 17 2009 at 18:46
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^
|
Posted By: Epignosis
Date Posted: April 17 2009 at 18:52
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sh*t! Dean! *hides* "My deepest apologies O powerful master of the dark arts." ------------- https://epignosis.bandcamp.com/album/a-month-of-sundays" rel="nofollow - https://epignosis.bandcamp.com/album/a-month-of-sundays |
Posted By: The Quiet One
Date Posted: April 17 2009 at 19:01
| Run for your lives! |
Posted By: russellk
Date Posted: April 17 2009 at 21:49
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Back on topic. I bought the new Gazpacho from iTunes the day it was released, listened repeatedly to it for a week, and judged it relative to previous Gazpacho work and the sub-genre as a whole. I see Gazpacho's recent work as superior to anyone else's in the current Neo/Crossover genre (Beardfish come close). BUT it wouldn't be in my top 20 albums of all time. I've been somewhat surprised that the album has not garnered any more collaborator reviews - I've been waiting for the shoe to drop. You know, reviews like 'the previous fanboy reviewers are deranged, this is a sweet but bland album, three stars.' Clearly it's not a Top 10 of all time album. It's not even better than 'Night' IMO. When the critics have their say it'll settle down. I'm a sucker for this sort of music, but don't rip me for the rating, read the review. I've tried to be helpful, suggesting who might like it and who won't. But the instance pointed out at the beginning of the thread is a clear case of abuse. Whether it influences ratings or not is not the issue. They should all be removed. |
Posted By: Diaby
Date Posted: April 18 2009 at 04:11
Seconded.
Some weeks ago I reported someone in the reporting thread who had the same attitude, and ALL the 1-star ratings were removed a bit later. That should be the precedent for the current case. ------------- yeah |
Posted By: Ricochet
Date Posted: April 18 2009 at 08:46
How this thread ended up with 75 replies in less than one day is beyond me...
-------------
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Posted By: micky
Date Posted: April 18 2009 at 10:28
sometimes a picture tells the story best  ------------- The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip |
Posted By: The Quiet One
Date Posted: April 18 2009 at 11:09
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^or maybe just the post counter
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Posted By: debrewguy
Date Posted: April 18 2009 at 12:32
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Has anyone mentioned how easy it is to bump a group into the most popular groups listing (top 40). Six Organs of Admittance has 8 albums, and one live. No reviews or ratings. Yet, it has been in that list for a least a few weeks. Dunphy was there for a bit too. ------------- "Here I am talking to some of the smartest people in the world and I didn't even notice,” Lieutenant Columbo, episode The Bye-Bye Sky-High I.Q. Murder Case. |
Posted By: russellk
Date Posted: April 19 2009 at 02:30
| Seems the alteration to the algorithm to allow less popular but highly rated albums into the top 100 has side-effects ... |
Posted By: russellk
Date Posted: April 22 2009 at 15:34
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And here's another one ... could be the same person ... http://www.progarchives.com/Collaborators.asp?id=23758 |
Posted By: Dean
Date Posted: April 22 2009 at 16:41
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I cannot prove it by IP address, but I suspect all these are the same person as well http://www.progarchives.com/forum/member_profile.asp?PF=21123 - http://www.progarchives.com/forum/member_profile.asp?PF=21123
http://www.progarchives.com/forum/member_profile.asp?PF=13997 - http://www.progarchives.com/forum/member_profile.asp?PF=13997
http://www.progarchives.com/forum/member_profile.asp?PF=18451 - http://www.progarchives.com/forum/member_profile.asp?PF=18451
http://www.progarchives.com/forum/member_profile.asp?PF=23470 - http://www.progarchives.com/forum/member_profile.asp?PF=23470
http://www.progarchives.com/forum/member_profile.asp?PF=23000 - http://www.progarchives.com/forum/member_profile.asp?PF=23000
http://www.progarchives.com/forum/member_profile.asp?PF=21971 - http://www.progarchives.com/forum/member_profile.asp?PF=21971 ------------- What? |
Posted By: Epignosis
Date Posted: April 22 2009 at 17:04
I don't know Dean- I looked at all their ratings, and I can't see a huge common bond. But you may be right. ------------- https://epignosis.bandcamp.com/album/a-month-of-sundays" rel="nofollow - https://epignosis.bandcamp.com/album/a-month-of-sundays |
Posted By: Dean
Date Posted: April 22 2009 at 17:10
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^ Okay 3rd from top is probably not - but the rest... too close - unless all Columbians love Floyd & hate Genesis and/or Yes. ------------- What? |
Posted By: Soul Dreamer
Date Posted: April 22 2009 at 17:18
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Looking at those review listings, I think you have a strong case for users 23470 and 23758, they are probably the same culprit as the one I started the thread about. The rest is not as clear-cut, since they also rate some 2,3 and 4*.
------------- To be the one who seeks so I may find .. (Metallica) |
Posted By: Dean
Date Posted: April 22 2009 at 17:43
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Three of them share two common IP addresses - reasonings behind my suspicion of others is slightly deeper in that they all share the same ISP and their activities never interleave but reveal a distinct chronological pattern,.. as I say - it is a suspicion and I cannot prove it emphatically. ------------- What? |
Posted By: Soul Dreamer
Date Posted: April 22 2009 at 18:09
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Well, you know better than me...maybe it's an organized action of the Columbian PF fanclub? It is surely curious how well loved PF is by all these users...And especially curious how Phaedra of Tangerine Dream turns in 5* many times... ------------- To be the one who seeks so I may find .. (Metallica) |
Posted By: russellk
Date Posted: April 24 2009 at 14:32
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Still going http://www.progarchives.com/Collaborators.asp?id=23877 http://www.progarchives.com/Collaborators.asp?id=23859 Join, post their one-star and five-star reviews, slope off and are never seen again. |
Posted By: brainiak
Date Posted: May 01 2009 at 09:53
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there's clearly a case of an angry pink floyd fan. IMO there should be two different rankings: one that only counts ratings with reviews and second that counts both ratings with and with out reviews. that would minimize all the mess that such a manipulations might cause. |
Posted By: andrea
Date Posted: May 05 2009 at 14:19
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Some other attempts to manipulate the top 100 by fanboys? http://www.progarchives.com/Collaborators.asp?id=23964 - http://www.progarchives.com/Collaborators.asp?id=23964 http://www.progarchives.com/Collaborators.asp?id=23945 - http://www.progarchives.com/Collaborators.asp?id=23945 http://www.progarchives.com/Collaborators.asp?id=23928 - http://www.progarchives.com/Collaborators.asp?id=23928 http://www.progarchives.com/Collaborators.asp?id=23162 - http://www.progarchives.com/Collaborators.asp?id=23162 http://www.progarchives.com/Collaborators.asp?id=23015 - http://www.progarchives.com/Collaborators.asp?id=23015 http://www.progarchives.com/Collaborators.asp?id=23000 - http://www.progarchives.com/Collaborators.asp?id=23000 http://www.progarchives.com/Collaborators.asp?id=22956 - http://www.progarchives.com/Collaborators.asp?id=22956 http://www.progarchives.com/Collaborators.asp?id=22709 - http://www.progarchives.com/Collaborators.asp?id=22709 http://www.progarchives.com/Collaborators.asp?id=22649 - http://www.progarchives.com/Collaborators.asp?id=22649 |
Posted By: Finnforest
Date Posted: May 05 2009 at 14:33
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Excellant work and it reiterates the need for "weighted" ratings based on status with the site and whether "rating only" or review included.
I hope these accounts, if deemed manipulation by Admin, will be swiftly deleted. I can't believe some people have nothing better to do with their lives than worry about the placement of albums in a list. ------------- ...that moment you realize you like "Mob Rules" better than "Heaven and Hell" |
Posted By: Dean
Date Posted: May 05 2009 at 15:25
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How many fans does Pink Floyd have in Columbia? (the country not the record label) ------------- What? |
Posted By: Mr ProgFreak
Date Posted: May 05 2009 at 15:48
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Of course there's a definitive pattern here. The perfect solution would be if the admins inspected the accounts on a regular basis and marked spam accordingly. Of course you can simply delete them, but then the spammers would simply try again. Rather than that ... let them submit their ratings and think that they have an effect. ------------- https://tagyourmusic.org/users/Mike" rel="nofollow - https://tagyourmusic.org/users/Mike |
Posted By: The T
Date Posted: May 05 2009 at 16:48
What country is Columbia??
 (because Colombia is obviously not what we're talking about....) ------------- 
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Posted By: Diaby
Date Posted: May 05 2009 at 16:58
If you don't joke, it's a South-American country, which has borders with Panama, Ecuador, Venezuela and Brazil (I hope I'm fully right). ------------- yeah |
Posted By: Dean
Date Posted: May 05 2009 at 17:04
ColumbiaFrom Wikipedia, the free encyclopediahttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Columbia_%28name%29 - Columbia (name) is a poetic name for America (in the sense of "European colonies in the New World") and the feminine personification of the United States of America; it has inspired the names of many persons, places, objects, institutions, and companies. also see: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Colony_of_British_Columbia - Colony of British Columbia ------------- What? |