most important element in music/prog
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Topic: most important element in music/prog
Posted By: Zitro
Subject: most important element in music/prog
Date Posted: January 20 2009 at 22:09
| Difficult poll, eh? |
Replies:
Posted By: horsewithteeth11
Date Posted: January 20 2009 at 22:42
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If we're talking about music in general, then I'd have to say that most everything is based around the melody. From melody, we get those musical phrases/motifs, through which a song develops the other three things mentioned. However, if we're talking about progressive rock specifically, than we'd want to focus most attention on the way songs are structured, as that's what sets prog apart from other genres of music in my opinion. Although melody is still very important in the big picture. I voted melody though, as 20th century music places a great deal of importance on melody. ------------- 
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Posted By: Petrovsk Mizinski
Date Posted: January 20 2009 at 22:57
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Good post from David there. A lot of the music in prog, well, let's face it, it's not as "out there" as some of the pure avant garde music and more extreme classical music forms. Which means, a very large majority of prog rock is still written with a tonal center and along with that, we usually have melody. Melody, contrary to the belief of many non musicians, is not just that kind of stuff you hear in symph prog or whatever but it can be as dissonant as hell to and melody does not have to conform to that popular belief that it has to be 'beautiful' sounding, but it's still a melody isn't it, since it's not atonal/atonality. Yes, folks, that means all those seemingly 'noisy' prog metal or avant bands you hear , have A LOT more melody than you realize, but it isn't always 'beautiful' and consonant, but melody is still present in many cases. Of course, without melody, without the musical scales used to write melodies, we cannot really have harmony in the normal sense anyway, since the notes in chords that make up harmonies are derived from scales and modes in the first place, so from that, it was easy to pick melody over harmony by a long shot. When someone writes melodies, often a rhythmic center can develop from that too. And of course, to some extent, form and structure can rely on melodic components, but not always obviously. |
Posted By: topofsm
Date Posted: January 20 2009 at 23:59
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I voted structure, because a good structured piece of music doesn't necessarily have to rely on melody or rhythm. A well structured piece of music can make what would normally make a badly developed idea into a genius piece of work.
However, Shostakovich once said, "All aspects of music should be subordinate to melody and such melody should be clear and singable." I think most will agree that melody is the most important. ------------- 
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Posted By: Mr ProgFreak
Date Posted: January 21 2009 at 00:57
| Melody is the essence of music. |
Posted By: Petrovsk Mizinski
Date Posted: January 21 2009 at 01:08
Well no, it isn't always the case. It may be the case for the large majority of bands listed in PA perhaps and pretty much the majority of classical music (from all periods) jazz, rock/metal and pop music, but if melody were really the essence of music, then noise music wouldn't be considered music, but it is, and it's possible to create entire albums of musical works without any melody what so ever. Merbow has written plenty of stuff completely devoid of melody, but it's still music to my ears, because it has other elements of music, proving melody is a component, but nothing says it's necessary to use it to in order to create music. |
Mr ProgFreak wrote:Posted By: Mr ProgFreak
Date Posted: January 21 2009 at 01:16
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^ I don't consider noise to be music. You may call it "Noise Music" for the lack of a better word, but I think that without any melody it isn't really music anymore - more like an abstract form of "sound art".
------------- https://tagyourmusic.org/users/Mike" rel="nofollow - https://tagyourmusic.org/users/Mike |
Posted By: Petrovsk Mizinski
Date Posted: January 21 2009 at 01:19
^Well, if you don't consider Noise Music to be music........well you just suck then don't you?  |
Posted By: Mr ProgFreak
Date Posted: January 21 2009 at 01:26
| I just think that noise is noise and music is music. I love a certain amount of noise in music, but if it's just noise without any discernable melody then I simply won't call it music anymore. |
Posted By: someone_else
Date Posted: January 21 2009 at 07:40
| If I can hear music in noise, the noise may become music to me. But usually it's the melody that makes the music. |
Posted By: Einsetumadur
Date Posted: January 21 2009 at 11:00
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Harmony, meant as "harmonies", the chords and the work-out of the melody. Music which has a lack of "harmony", noodling around on the strangest melodies all the time isn't listened to by me - especially when I read about the "virtuosity" of a band I can guess what the real problem of the band is : they don't have any sense for harmony. Of course, the music is great when the band is able to do both things, but feeling is more important than virtuosity - as you can see at the music of Moody Blues that profits of great songwriting. Of course I love them more than King Crimson ... ... and this is the exception: music that is so fresh and radical like King Crimson or parts of VdGG's work can be very good, too - but all in all the harmony plays the most important role. ------------- All in all each man in all men |
Posted By: Alberto Muņoz
Date Posted: January 21 2009 at 11:20
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I will tell you the most important element in prog music:
THE LISTENER  -------------  |
Posted By: Negoba
Date Posted: January 21 2009 at 11:33
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Melody and harmony normally feed off each other, so I don't consider them independent. That duo, along with rhythm form the basis of most all forms of what we call music.
Most prog follows this as well, but pushes into a little more complex territory in all counts. I feel what really defines prog is structure and form which can be quite different from other forms of music where repetition is extremely important.
Avant forms of music try to shed the conventions of melody/harmony/rhythm but still have to deal with the more basic ideas of pitch/timbre/time which are just simpler forms of the classic three.
I voted structure/form as this is a prog site. ------------- You are quite a fine person, and I am very fond of you. But you are only quite a little fellow, in a wide world, after all. |
Posted By: Henry Plainview
Date Posted: January 21 2009 at 11:38
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I am not sure how to vote, but I don't understand at all how so many people think structure is more important than anything else. Wouldn't development of a theme fall under harmony?
Perhaps it is a personal problem that I cannot accept the same thing from computer manipulation that I could from an instrument. But, for example, the other day I was listening to Einsturzende Neubauten, which I got from eMusic for reasons that escape me now, and at the end of a song I was like "Wait...I am currently listening to a sample of a power drill. Why am I doing that?"
I strongly disagree with that. He made some good music, but why would I want to be able to sing it?
Repetition is extremely important to prog too. ------------- if you own a sodastream i hate you |
Posted By: Vompatti
Date Posted: January 21 2009 at 11:43
I've yet to hear a work by Merzbow that doesn't have a melody. To be honest I can't even imagine what it would sound like. 
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Posted By: Visitor13
Date Posted: January 21 2009 at 12:13
| Timbre. |
Posted By: The Pessimist
Date Posted: January 21 2009 at 12:54
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Rhythm for me.
------------- "Market value is irrelevant to intrinsic value." Arnold Schoenberg |
Posted By: lazland
Date Posted: January 21 2009 at 13:29
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Yes, Zitro, an exceptionally difficult poll!! Melody won out for me in the end, because this is the foundation of all the music we love. Even in noise (a la King Crimson & etc.) can there be found melody and beauty. ------------- Enhance your life. Get down to www.lazland.org Now also broadcasting on www.progzilla.com Every Saturday, 4.00 p.m. UK time! |
Posted By: The Pessimist
Date Posted: January 21 2009 at 14:11
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Actually it entirely depends on how melodic/rhythmic the song is.
------------- "Market value is irrelevant to intrinsic value." Arnold Schoenberg |
Posted By: Visitor13
Date Posted: January 21 2009 at 14:25
And texture. I don't really know where one ends and the other starts. |
Posted By: jimidom
Date Posted: January 21 2009 at 14:31
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Melody!  ------------- "The music business is a cruel and shallow money trench, a long plastic hallway where thieves and pimps run free, and good men die like dogs. There's also a negative side." - HST |
Posted By: the_binkster
Date Posted: January 21 2009 at 16:37
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Why is harmony so unloved? Melody is nothing unless you harmonise properly. Far more "progression" (both in the literal sense and the prog sense) is achieved through clever manipulation of harmonic structure and rhythm than through the "tune". Improvisation, which if I remember correctly was, and is, the basis for much prog, is driven by harmony (when was the last time you asked for the tune instead of the key/chords when jamming with a band). Melody is lovely, yes, but progression in music has been achieved right back from Classical to Romantic and Romantic to 20th Century through new approaches to harmony and tonality. The development of motific ideas is used far more than the creation of one soaring melodic line. A "nice" melody is the by-product of functional harmony (the harmony allows you to predict the next note sub-consciously which when played makes the tune sound natural). One can never explore melody in the way harmony allows for exploration, you can't really use a new interval . Surely then harmony has to be the most important? (Oh and rhythm as well if you're talking about Meshuggah) |
Posted By: Visitor13
Date Posted: January 21 2009 at 16:40
| Harmony is unloved because it doesn't jump at you like melody and rhythm do, I guess. |
Posted By: tszirmay
Date Posted: January 21 2009 at 16:47
An achingly beautiful melody is hard to beat (like Epitath, for example) but my main interest in prog is "mood" or atmosphere, really. There are so many examples of how the sound/sonics/atmosphere can really take the music to another level. The main tools? mellotron, strings, orchestrations, synths bit also certain rhythmic patterns on guitar, percussion etc.... The idea is to propel the listener into another realm , far from the prefabricated predictability of PAP/POP.  ------------- I never post anything anywhere without doing more than basic research, often in depth. |
Posted By: BroSpence
Date Posted: January 21 2009 at 22:03
| You ain't got sh*t if you ain't got rhythm. |
Posted By: TheCaptain
Date Posted: January 21 2009 at 22:07
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All I care about is if the music sounds good. I don't care why or how. So for that, I guess I'll just pick melody.
------------- Curse your sudden but inevitable betrayal. |