Pink Floyd vs. Rush
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Forum Name: Prog Polls
Forum Description: Create polls on topics related to progressive music
URL: http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=53445
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Topic: Pink Floyd vs. Rush
Posted By: Epignosis
Subject: Pink Floyd vs. Rush
Date Posted: November 19 2008 at 17:55
Okay, I've seen "Rush vs. The Beatles," "Rush vs. "Led Zeppelin," and "King Crimson vs. Pink Floyd."
Very well. Let's try this on for size.
------------- https://epignosis.bandcamp.com/album/a-month-of-sundays" rel="nofollow - https://epignosis.bandcamp.com/album/a-month-of-sundays
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Replies:
Posted By: The Quiet One
Date Posted: November 19 2008 at 17:58
While I like the Hard Rocking stuff from Rush quite a lot, Pink Floyd gets my vote by miles.
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Posted By: The Doctor
Date Posted: November 19 2008 at 18:00
Ouch! Tougher than the Rush vs. LZ or the Rush vs. Magma. I didn't participate in the Rush vs. Beatles one, because that was comparing apples and oranges.
Not sure if I can vote on this one either. Both are bands I've loved for years and years. Lately I've been on a Floyd kick, but next week I might be on a Rush kick. I must refrain. But hopefully, unlike OP of the LZ poll, you've only allowed one vote per person.
------------- I can understand your anger at me, but what did the horse I rode in on ever do to you?
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Posted By: JROCHA
Date Posted: November 19 2008 at 18:29
Posted By: poslednijat_colobar
Date Posted: November 19 2008 at 18:30
Absolutely Pink Floyd for me!
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Posted By: Wetheliving
Date Posted: November 19 2008 at 18:35
Rush is the greatest!
------------- We will call you Cygnus, the god of balance you shall be!
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Posted By: darksideof
Date Posted: November 19 2008 at 18:35
love Rush, but FLOYD IS FLOYD....................
------------- http://darksideofcollages.blogspot.com/
http://www.metalmusicarchives.com/
https://www.facebook.com/pages/Darksideof-Collages/
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Posted By: easytargets
Date Posted: November 19 2008 at 18:42
I´ll go with Rush since I love them (Peart), but think Pink Floyd will largely
win this poll as their earlier stuff is completely different from anything already done.
Well, at least, from that I´ve notice of.
------------- The water rushes over all
cities crash in the mighty wave;
the final man is very small,
plunging in for his final bathe
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Posted By: Hercules
Date Posted: November 19 2008 at 18:57
I simply can't choose. They're both excellent; not my absolute favourites, but close.
------------- A TVR is not a car. It's a way of life.
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Posted By: Queen By-Tor
Date Posted: November 19 2008 at 19:48
As much as I love Rush I'm getting sick of these polls.
No vote.
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Posted By: jamesfibs1
Date Posted: November 19 2008 at 20:07
Seeing as how Rush have some memorable bits of music and some energy, i think i'll go with them.
(i do like Floyd, and have many of their albums, but even the most die-hard fan has to admit that they go through the motions a bit!!)
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Posted By: jammun
Date Posted: November 19 2008 at 20:09
Posted By: Epignosis
Date Posted: November 19 2008 at 20:13
King By-Tor wrote:
As much as I love Rush I'm getting sick of these polls.
No vote.
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That was sort of my point.
I realize the irony in that I'm not helping the situation. No need to point that out.
------------- https://epignosis.bandcamp.com/album/a-month-of-sundays" rel="nofollow - https://epignosis.bandcamp.com/album/a-month-of-sundays
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Posted By: Queen By-Tor
Date Posted: November 19 2008 at 20:16
Well I'm in attack mode right now
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Posted By: Epignosis
Date Posted: November 19 2008 at 20:20
I see that. I posted a seal in the Zep v.s Rush poll. Just for you.
------------- https://epignosis.bandcamp.com/album/a-month-of-sundays" rel="nofollow - https://epignosis.bandcamp.com/album/a-month-of-sundays
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Posted By: Queen By-Tor
Date Posted: November 19 2008 at 20:20
I lol'd at it. Thank you
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Posted By: Petrovsk Mizinski
Date Posted: November 19 2008 at 20:24
I'll give it to Rush. I still listen to Rush, but I don't really listen to PF anymore to be honest.
But yeah, as Mike said, people need to stop re-doing polls that have been done over a million times.
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Posted By: BroSpence
Date Posted: November 19 2008 at 21:46
Who'd have thought Pink Floyd would be Rush? I did! Then again I ain't Rushin.
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Posted By: Sunny In Jeddah
Date Posted: November 19 2008 at 21:59
Rush got my vote, proud Canadians. Also I think the Pink Floyd may just be a tad overrated.
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Posted By: ProgBagel
Date Posted: November 19 2008 at 22:02
I like Rush, but Floyd runs them and almost any band out of the water.
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Posted By: Peter
Date Posted: November 19 2008 at 22:28
Sunny In Jeddah wrote:
Rush got my vote, proud Canadians. Also I think the Pink Floyd may just be a tad overrated. |
Sigh -- there's that word again.
Would you please explain just what you mean by "overrated?"
Are you implying that all the Pink Floyd fans are "wrong," while you are "right?"
That they are being less than genuine or sincere when they express a liking for the band?
That they don't really know what they like? That they don't like Floyd as much as they think they do, or perhaps that they should like them less?
Please explain what you mean by "overrated," or else why not refer to something you are in a position to judge: YOUR taste in music -- not the tastes of millions of individual Floyd fans whom you've never even met.
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For the record, once again, I like BOTH of these fine bands, and I find these types of "X vs Y" polls to be silly. They are threads posted by people who have little or nothing to say, and who can't be bothered to make the effort to say anything of real depth, substance or interest anyway. They reduce art to the mere level of sport, or a juvenile, shallow popularity contest.
Much as with friends and food, it's actually okay to like different bands and types of music, to roughly the same degree, for different reasons and different moods. That's called being a MUSIC fan, and being grown up. Variety is good!
Wh ich do you like best, flowers or birds? Water or air? Your arm or your leg?
------------- "And, has thou slain the Jabberwock? Come to my arms, my beamish boy! O frabjous day! Callooh! Callay!' He chortled in his joy.
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Posted By: horsewithteeth11
Date Posted: November 20 2008 at 00:59
Pink Floyd are an overrated band, there, I said it. Now before some of
you go home crying to momma, let me explain. While I am starting to
like the Floyd again (to an extent) after not listening to them for
about 2 years, I just don't see where the talent comes from in the band
members. Granted, Wright is to me the exception, and I find him one of
the most fascinating and best keyboardists of all time, the rest of the
band members pale in comparison to him. For example, one of the things
that gets me riled up is whenever I see a list of the top 50 or top 100
guitarists in the history of rock, Gilmour always seems to make the top
5 or top 10. This blows my mind every time, and I'm guessing he gets so
high on those lists simply because he's a name most people recognize.
To me, he doesn't display any of the qualities of a virtuoso guitarist,
his solos tend to be fairly simple, and overall he doesn't bring much
to the stage. I could say many of the same things about Mason, and
Waters is, well, an excellent vocalist, I'll give him that. However, I
could probably play most if not all of Pink Floyd's bass lines. Now, I
know most people will say, "Pink Floyd is an atmospheric band; they're
not supposed to be really technical". Why? Who says that you can't have
both atmosphere and technicality? I think both, in the right
situations, work together very well. Well, after that rambling rant, I
guess what I'm trying to say is that none of the members of Floyd save
Wright are stellar, virtuoso musicians. Granted, I wouldn't call Geddy and Lifeson virtuosos (Peart I probably would), but they're technique improved over time. So overall, I'd have to vote for Rush, not because I'm a fanboy this time, but because the members are more talented with their instruments.
Let the stone-throwing commence. I'm ready!
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Posted By: Peter
Date Posted: November 20 2008 at 01:40
birdwithteeth11 wrote:
Pink Floyd are an overrated band, there, I said it. Now before some of you go home crying to momma, let me explain. While I am starting to like the Floyd again (to an extent) after not listening to them for about 2 years, I just don't see where the talent comes from in the band members. Granted, Wright is to me the exception, and I find him one of the most fascinating and best keyboardists of all time, the rest of the band members pale in comparison to him. For example, one of the things that gets me riled up is whenever I see a list of the top 50 or top 100 guitarists in the history of rock, Gilmour always seems to make the top 5 or top 10. This blows my mind every time, and I'm guessing he gets so high on those lists simply because he's a name most people recognize. To me, he doesn't display any of the qualities of a virtuoso guitarist, his solos tend to be fairly simple, and overall he doesn't bring much to the stage. I could say many of the same things about Mason, and Waters is, well, an excellent vocalist, I'll give him that. However, I could probably play most if not all of Pink Floyd's bass lines. Now, I know most people will say, "Pink Floyd is an atmospheric band; they're not supposed to be really technical". Why? Who says that you can't have both atmosphere and technicality? I think both, in the right situations, work together very well. Well, after that rambling rant, I guess what I'm trying to say is that none of the members of Floyd save Wright are stellar, virtuoso musicians. Granted, I wouldn't call Geddy and Lifeson virtuosos (Peart I probably would), but they're technique improved over time. So overall, I'd have to vote for Rush, not because I'm a fanboy this time, but because the members are more talented with their instruments.
Let the stone-throwing commence. I'm ready!
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As a non-musician (and thus, solidly in the music audience majority), I don't give a rat's ass about any of that "virtuoso" stuff. That's not how I respond to music. I connect to music mainly through my emotions, not the math or accounting (count the notes per-minute, Poindexter) side of my brain.
I for one have NEVER held Floyd up to be the "best" technicians or musicians, and I'm not aware of others doing that here, either. I do not "rate" them that way. I like the songs they write. To put it very simply, I greatly enjoy the sound Floyd's music makes. Ditto Rush -- both bands give me considerable, real, un-feigned, intelligent, thinking-adult-style pleasure.
It bugs me when I say to a guitar player "listen to this cool solo" and he responds immediately with a dismissive, condescending "that's not hard." Did I say it was hard? Do I even care? NO! It's cool, it speaks to me (and many others -- mission accomplished!) and though you might be able to play it, you didn't write it!
Someone with some soul did!
Who is "right?" I propose that we BOTH are -- you hear music your way, I hear it mine. But when you say "overrated," you judge MY taste and experiences of music, and not your own.
That's just arrogant.
------------- "And, has thou slain the Jabberwock? Come to my arms, my beamish boy! O frabjous day! Callooh! Callay!' He chortled in his joy.
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Posted By: Blacksword
Date Posted: November 20 2008 at 02:36
^^^ Agree with every word, Peter.
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Posted By: Roj
Date Posted: November 20 2008 at 03:03
There's been some real nonsense spouted above. Pink Floyd overrated, what a load of old tosh. They are one of the most important prog bands of all, and one of my very favourites.
Much as I like Rush, my vote is for Floyd, easily.
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Posted By: Hawkwise
Date Posted: November 20 2008 at 07:31
birdwithteeth11 wrote:
Pink Floyd are an overrated band, there, I said it. Now before some of
you go home crying to momma, let me explain. While I am starting to
like the Floyd again (to an extent) after not listening to them for
about 2 years, I just don't see where the talent comes from in the band
members. Granted, Wright is to me the exception, and I find him one of
the most fascinating and best keyboardists of all time, the rest of the
band members pale in comparison to him. For example, one of the things
that gets me riled up is whenever I see a list of the top 50 or top 100
guitarists in the history of rock, Gilmour always seems to make the top
5 or top 10. This blows my mind every time, and I'm guessing he gets so
high on those lists simply because he's a name most people recognize.
To me, he doesn't display any of the qualities of a virtuoso guitarist,
his solos tend to be fairly simple, and overall he doesn't bring much
to the stage. I could say many of the same things about Mason, and
Waters is, well, an excellent vocalist, I'll give him that. However, I
could probably play most if not all of Pink Floyd's bass lines. Now, I
know most people will say, "Pink Floyd is an atmospheric band; they're
not supposed to be really technical". Why? Who says that you can't have
both atmosphere and technicality? I think both, in the right
situations, work together very well. Well, after that rambling rant, I
guess what I'm trying to say is that none of the members of Floyd save
Wright are stellar, virtuoso musicians. Granted, I wouldn't call Geddy and Lifeson virtuosos (Peart I probably would), but they're technique improved over time. So overall, I'd have to vote for Rush, not because I'm a fanboy this time, but because the members are more talented with their instruments.
Let the stone-throwing commence. I'm ready!
|
" virtuoso guitarist,
his solos tend to be fairly simple"
Dude Gilmour Playing is all about the Tone Man , there is no one better and some times Less is More . so What do you consider Virtuoso to be ? all fast playing with no emotion with No Feel ? there just isn't anyone else out there who Plays with Gilmour Feel and Tone that Makes him Pretty special also you have to visit albums such as Ummagumma,and Meddle his playing those albums and Pretty damn different and special , also he Damn fine Steele and Slide Player to.
"more talented with their instruments."
Again what does that really Mean or come down to?, some the best and Talented players can make some god awful Music , as Musician myself i have been around some amazing players who made the most Snooze boring Music with no Originality whats so ever, so Dude i think you really are talking out your backside, but hey that's cool opinion's vary be a boring place this if we all agreed eh ? i Just think your way of here and WRONG .
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Posted By: Urs Blank
Date Posted: November 20 2008 at 07:38
OK then I guess I love "overrated" music!
------------- Have no fear of perfection - you'll never reach it.
Salvador Dali.
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Posted By: Statutory-Mike
Date Posted: November 20 2008 at 07:53
uhhhhhh Rush
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Posted By: Epignosis
Date Posted: November 20 2008 at 08:46
Oooo...controversy. I never thought I get any of that.
------------- https://epignosis.bandcamp.com/album/a-month-of-sundays" rel="nofollow - https://epignosis.bandcamp.com/album/a-month-of-sundays
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Posted By: Roj
Date Posted: November 20 2008 at 10:16
Epignosis wrote:
Oooo...controversy. I never thought I get any of that. |
Oh yes! Now you do mate . You have really stirred up a hornet's nest here! It's all good entertainment.
Incidentally, I agree fully with Hawkwise re: Gilmour. I think he's a great guitarist, technique and feel. Just coz he's not Yngwie Malmsteen with 14,000,000 notes a second, doesn't mean he's mediocre.
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Posted By: horsewithteeth11
Date Posted: November 20 2008 at 10:38
Hawkwise wrote:
birdwithteeth11 wrote:
Pink Floyd are an overrated band, there, I said it. Now before some of
you go home crying to momma, let me explain. While I am starting to
like the Floyd again (to an extent) after not listening to them for
about 2 years, I just don't see where the talent comes from in the band
members. Granted, Wright is to me the exception, and I find him one of
the most fascinating and best keyboardists of all time, the rest of the
band members pale in comparison to him. For example, one of the things
that gets me riled up is whenever I see a list of the top 50 or top 100
guitarists in the history of rock, Gilmour always seems to make the top
5 or top 10. This blows my mind every time, and I'm guessing he gets so
high on those lists simply because he's a name most people recognize.
To me, he doesn't display any of the qualities of a virtuoso guitarist,
his solos tend to be fairly simple, and overall he doesn't bring much
to the stage. I could say many of the same things about Mason, and
Waters is, well, an excellent vocalist, I'll give him that. However, I
could probably play most if not all of Pink Floyd's bass lines. Now, I
know most people will say, "Pink Floyd is an atmospheric band; they're
not supposed to be really technical". Why? Who says that you can't have
both atmosphere and technicality? I think both, in the right
situations, work together very well. Well, after that rambling rant, I
guess what I'm trying to say is that none of the members of Floyd save
Wright are stellar, virtuoso musicians. Granted, I wouldn't call Geddy and Lifeson virtuosos (Peart I probably would), but they're technique improved over time. So overall, I'd have to vote for Rush, not because I'm a fanboy this time, but because the members are more talented with their instruments.
Let the stone-throwing commence. I'm ready!
|
" virtuoso guitarist,
his solos tend to be fairly simple"
Dude Gilmour Playing is all about the Tone Man , there is no one better and some times Less is More . so What do you consider Virtuoso to be ? all fast playing with no emotion with No Feel ?
This is where I think 'virtuoso' gets taken out
of context. It has nothing to do with how fast your play your
instrument. And if you really are playing it fast with no emotion or
feel, I don't really consider that to be 'virtuoso' playing. A great
example of this is Steve Vai, who easily is nowhere near the fastest guitarist, in fact a good deal of his songs are slower songs, and even some of his solos are rather slow, but he utilizes such techniques as sweep-picking or finger-tapping even on some slower sections of his songs. So in essence, one can say that Vai was a better guitarist simply because he was well-schooled in music theory. I know that Gilmour is a blues-based guitarist and that's where he gets his origins from, but as far as I know he isn't well-grounded in music theory.
there just isn't anyone else out there who Plays with Gilmour Feel and Tone that Makes him Pretty special also you have to visit albums such as Ummagumma,and Meddle his playing those albums and Pretty damn different and special , also he Damn fine Steele and Slide Player to.
While I do agree with you to an extent, and in my rambling I meant to say that Gilmour was good at what he does but isn't the best guitarist ever, so sorry if that confused you. However, you're pretty much stating an opinion here except for the part about his playing on Ummagumma and Meddle.
"more talented with their instruments."
Again what does that really Mean or come down to?, some the best and Talented players can make some god awful Music , as Musician myself i have been around some amazing players who made the most Snooze boring Music with no Originality whats so ever, so Dude i think you really are talking out your backside, but hey that's cool opinion's vary be a boring place this if we all agreed eh ? i Just think your way of here and WRONG .
Being someone who plays an instrument myself, I tend to look at the technique that is displayed in the musicians' instruments. If you listen for emotion, that's perfectly fine. Pink Floyd is excellent in that respect and completely reolutionized the way atmospheric music is played. However, to me, atmospheric music only gets you so far, and at times I wonder if Pink Floyd deliberately tried to flirt with the "mainstream" scene at the time with certain releases (although that's another issue in itself). And once again, you're ending with an opinion. If you want to think I'm wrong, that's fine, but again that's simply your opinion.
@Peter - I'm not so nerdy with music that I count the number of beats in every measure when I listen to a band. And ultimately, you've hit the nail on the head: you listen to the music because you get enjoyment out of it. That's what music is all about anyway. Although I think you revealed why so many people hate the use of the word 'overrated' on this site: because they feel it's a direct insult to themselves if it's a band they like. That's not what I mean by overrated at all to be honest. However, I'll probably try thinking of a different word to use from now on that doesn't upset people or make them feel personally insulted.
I've talked about it in previous threads before and I don't want to start some pointless argument again because people think I'm attacking a 'sacred cow' (I said in the beginning that I actually enjoy listening to the Floyd anyway). Hopefully I cleared up some of the confusion as to what I had rambled about. I'm simply talking about the musicians themselves, NOT the (rather enjoyable) music.
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Posted By: horsewithteeth11
Date Posted: November 20 2008 at 10:42
Roj M30 wrote:
Epignosis wrote:
Oooo...controversy. I never thought I get any of that. |
Oh yes! Now you do mate . You have really stirred up a hornet's nest here! It's all good entertainment.
Incidentally, I agree fully with Hawkwise re: Gilmour. I think he's a great guitarist, technique and feel. Just coz he's not Yngwie Malmsteen with 14,000,000 notes a second, doesn't mean he's mediocre.
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Malmsteen was talented, but he peaked early in his career and became stale fairly quickly. He got to a point where he stopped progressing. Like I said previously, I think many people on here think of 'virtuoso' as simply cranking out as many notes as you can as fast as you can. It has nothing to do with that at all. And also like I said, Gilmour is good at what he does, but if I want to hear some top-notch, virtuoso guitar playing, I'm not going to listen to Pink Floyd.
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Posted By: horsewithteeth11
Date Posted: November 20 2008 at 10:43
Epignosis wrote:
Oooo...controversy. I never thought I get any of that.
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Well unfortunately, Rob, you forgot about me. So of course I had to stir up some ruckus.
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Posted By: ModernRocker79
Date Posted: November 20 2008 at 10:43
Pink Floyd. How about next poll be The Rolling Stones vs Rush?
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Posted By: jimidom
Date Posted: November 20 2008 at 10:47
For some reason when it came time to cast my vote in this poll, all I could think of was Dark Side of the Moon vs.Moving Pictures, and Dark Side of the Moon won. Therefore Pink Floyd won... this time. It could be different another day.
------------- "The music business is a cruel and shallow money trench, a long plastic hallway where thieves and pimps run free, and good men die like dogs. There's also a negative side." - HST
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Posted By: trackstoni
Date Posted: November 20 2008 at 10:54
Some people are trying to use Rush in many Polls // against the Floyds , Zeppelins , even the Beatles , not to carry on to the end of List . All members of PA , and all good Progerrs knows who they are , Rush is one of our Favourites bands since the 70 's , but do not put them in a critical position against all odds . Even if i like Rush more than the Beatles , or more than Led Zeppelin & Pink Floyd , but something inside my brain & heart tells me to give my votes in a critical situations to the right bands . Rush are Giants by all means , but cannot be listed against the Pioneers of classic Rock , or Progressive blues Rock , or crossover Progressive . Things are really obvious in this regard , these Polls aren't productive IMHO , so leave the Beautiful things as they are , and don't try digging in the past in a wrong Way . Cause no one was influenced by Rush , as far as my knowledge , but hundreds of artists & bands around the world was influenced by the Beatles , the Floyds , and Led Zeppelin ////////////////////////// TracksToni
------------- Tracking Tracks of Rock
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Posted By: Alberto Muņoz
Date Posted: November 20 2008 at 13:07
Epignosis wrote:
Okay, I've seen "Rush vs. The Beatles," "Rush vs. "Led Zeppelin," and "King Crimson vs. Pink Floyd."
Very well. Let's try this on for size.
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Posted By: Epignosis
Date Posted: November 20 2008 at 13:10
Or Rush vs. Rush. Blow everybody's minds.
------------- https://epignosis.bandcamp.com/album/a-month-of-sundays" rel="nofollow - https://epignosis.bandcamp.com/album/a-month-of-sundays
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Posted By: Alberto Muņoz
Date Posted: November 20 2008 at 13:16
Epignosis wrote:
Or Rush vs. Rush. Blow everybody's minds. |
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Posted By: rushfan4
Date Posted: November 20 2008 at 13:22
Posted By: StyLaZyn
Date Posted: November 20 2008 at 13:48
Here's an easier question:
Cut off your left ear or your right ear.
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Posted By: rushfan4
Date Posted: November 20 2008 at 13:50
My right ear. I think that I hear better out of my left one.
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Posted By: TGM: Orb
Date Posted: November 20 2008 at 13:59
Floyd was an easy choice. Lyrically a lot stronger, more consistently challenging and interesting, and more memorable.
IMO, of course.
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Posted By: Queen By-Tor
Date Posted: November 20 2008 at 14:03
TGM: Orb wrote:
Floyd was an easy choice. Lyrically a lot stronger, more consistently challenging and interesting, and more memorable.
IMO, of course.
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Posted By: Q6
Date Posted: November 20 2008 at 14:46
rush although I think the best of PF is better than the best of Rush
------------- http://www.paulcusick.co.uk - www.paulcusick.co.uk
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Posted By: Petrovsk Mizinski
Date Posted: November 21 2008 at 03:22
birdwithteeth11 wrote:
Roj M30 wrote:
Epignosis wrote:
Oooo...controversy. I never thought I get any of that. |
Oh yes! Now you do mate . You have really stirred up a hornet's nest here! It's all good entertainment.
Incidentally, I agree fully with Hawkwise re: Gilmour. I think he's a great guitarist, technique and feel. Just coz he's not Yngwie Malmsteen with 14,000,000 notes a second, doesn't mean he's mediocre.
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Malmsteen was talented, but he peaked early in his career and became stale fairly quickly. He got to a point where he stopped progressing. Like I said previously, I think many people on here think of 'virtuoso' as simply cranking out as many notes as you can as fast as you can. It has nothing to do with that at all. And also like I said, Gilmour is good at what he does, but if I want to hear some top-notch, virtuoso guitar playing, I'm not going to listen to Pink Floyd.
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@Roj: Do you know what I find most impressive about Malmsteen's playing? No his speed, not his ability to play "14,000,000 notes a second", but his vibrato. His vibrato is what has made the difference between his guitar solos being unlistenable to being extremely emotive and passionate.
And I agree with Birdwithteeth, I feel Malmsteen peaked perhaps, only 3 years into his career, before his song writing got old.
And for everyone in general: people are aware, that Malmsteen's albums consist of lots of riffs, actually has a vocalist, a song structure and less than perhaps 15 per cent of the songs he has written are actually instrumental. He isn't an idiot....... he doesn't solo for 5 minutes non stop over a song with vocals. The guy is the only guitarist in the band Rising Force........someone's gotta play the rhythm guitar, and he does that, and a damn fine job of it too.
And yes, If I'm in the mood for some more firey guitar playing, I don't turn to PF.
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Posted By: Roj
Date Posted: November 21 2008 at 03:28
HughesJB4 wrote:
birdwithteeth11 wrote:
Roj M30 wrote:
Epignosis wrote:
Oooo...controversy. I never thought I get any of that. |
Oh yes! Now you do mate . You have really stirred up a hornet's nest here! It's all good entertainment.
Incidentally, I agree fully with Hawkwise re: Gilmour. I think he's a great guitarist, technique and feel. Just coz he's not Yngwie Malmsteen with 14,000,000 notes a second, doesn't mean he's mediocre.
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Malmsteen was talented, but he peaked early in his career and became stale fairly quickly. He got to a point where he stopped progressing. Like I said previously, I think many people on here think of 'virtuoso' as simply cranking out as many notes as you can as fast as you can. It has nothing to do with that at all. And also like I said, Gilmour is good at what he does, but if I want to hear some top-notch, virtuoso guitar playing, I'm not going to listen to Pink Floyd.
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@Roj: Do you know what I find most impressive about Malmsteen's playing? No his speed, not his ability to play "14,000,000 notes a second", but his vibrato. His vibrato is what has made the difference between his guitar solos being unlistenable to being extremely emotive and passionate.
And I agree with Birdwithteeth, I feel Malmsteen peaked perhaps, only 3 years into his career, before his song writing got old.
And for everyone in general: people are aware, that Malmsteen's albums consist of lots of riffs, actually has a vocalist, a song structure and less than perhaps 15 per cent of the songs he has written are actually instrumental. He isn't an idiot....... he doesn't solo for 5 minutes non stop over a song with vocals. The guy is the only guitarist in the band Rising Force........someone's gotta play the rhythm guitar, and he does that, and a damn fine job of it too.
And yes, If I'm in the mood for some more firey guitar playing, I don't turn to PF.
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I'd only mentioned Malmsteen by way of a comparison, because he was the best example of an incredibly fast wizard on the guitar. I actually rate him very highly indeed, he is a wonderful guitarist. I was just meaning to say that because Gilmour's style is very different, ie much slower and based on emotion and feel, doesn't mean he's mediocre as had previously been suggested.
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Posted By: Petrovsk Mizinski
Date Posted: November 21 2008 at 03:34
^Yes, but Malmsteen's playing is also based on emotion and feel too. How fast you play has nothing to do with the emotional results, period.
To me, the most important elements of a good lead guitarist, are phrasing, vibrato, bending, general good intonation, and the ability to apply subtle nuances to playing... I rate these far above speed.
There are many "Shred" guys that have nothing but speed, and I tire of it in about 2 seconds.
Malmsteen has phrasing, he has vibrato which is arguably among the best ever and many guitarists base their vibrato off his (far more controlled than Gilmour's vibrato, and more emotional IMO too), his bends are never out of tune....... it just so happens he can play fast too. The man can also make his individual phrases and notes stand out too.... the nuances.
He regularly improvises........do you think he has time to apply musical mathematics in the heat of a live show?
No one does, and he can't either. He's playing it from gut instinct.
The guy has learnt his arpeggios, scales inside out, to the point where it's just second nature and he doesn't need to intellectualize things.
Every good guitarist needs to get to this level.
Before I've ever had my own performances, I would learn the scale in whatever key signature I have to use, inside out backwards.........because I don't have time to learn the scale on stage, I don't have time to think of what the notes are, I have to know what it 'sounds and feels' like before I hit the stage. And because of this, I've had people come up to me and tell me they could literally feel as if my playing was speaking to them, no matter how many shred licks I insert into a song..... and at most, I might only use a few shred licks here and there to add intensity, not because it's the be end all of the solo. When I'm improvising, I'll be completely honest.... I have no idea how many notes per second I'm playing, I don't even consciously know what notes I'm playing.....all I know is what key signature I'm playing in and the tempo really, because that was pre-determined before I started playing. I just 'feel' my around the fretboard, in essence, because there is no other option.
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Posted By: Roj
Date Posted: November 21 2008 at 03:55
^ I'm on your side in this HughesJB4 as I actually really rate Malmsteen highly, although I do prefer Satriani.
As I said before, I was simply responding to a post that said Gilmour was "mediocre" as his playing is slow and boring. I wasn't comparing him to Malmsteen (you can't really can you?) just saying that because Gilmour doesn't play really fast doesn't mean he's automatically mediocre.
Hope that clears things up.
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Posted By: Petrovsk Mizinski
Date Posted: November 21 2008 at 04:42
^Ah, well, we're all good then
Wait, wasn't it someone else that said his playing was slow and boring anyway? I don't think that's the case, although I do admit I find some other guitarists more exciting.
And YES, Satriani! I've seen the man live, got most of his CDs, and learnt a lot about playing guitar from watching his DVDs and listening to his CDs. A truly talented man.
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Posted By: someone_else
Date Posted: November 21 2008 at 05:13
TGM: Orb wrote:
Floyd was an easy choice. Lyrically a lot stronger, more consistently challenging and interesting, and more memorable.
IMO, of course.
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IYO, of course. I think that the strong lyrics are a major feature of Rush' songs. I agree with you on the other points.
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Posted By: Roj
Date Posted: November 21 2008 at 05:38
HughesJB4 wrote:
^Ah, well, we're all good then
Wait, wasn't it someone else that said his playing was slow and boring anyway? I don't think that's the case, although I do admit I find some other guitarists more exciting.
And YES, Satriani! I've seen the man live, got most of his CDs, and learnt a lot about playing guitar from watching his DVDs and listening to his CDs. A truly talented man.
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Yeah, I'm sure it was somebody else that said that.
I've got one of Satch's DVDs, filmed in SF I think. It is amazing. He is my favourite guitarist and I never tire of him. He makes it look so easy too. Not seen the man live yet though hope I get the chance soon.
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Posted By: Epignosis
Date Posted: November 21 2008 at 06:36
Uh, excuse me, fellas, but you're ONLY allowed to discuss Rush and Pink Floyd.
Those are two of only ten bands approved for discussion on this website, as far as I can tell.
------------- https://epignosis.bandcamp.com/album/a-month-of-sundays" rel="nofollow - https://epignosis.bandcamp.com/album/a-month-of-sundays
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Posted By: Roj
Date Posted: November 21 2008 at 08:33
Epignosis wrote:
Uh, excuse me, fellas, but you're ONLY allowed to discuss Rush and Pink Floyd.
Those are two of only ten bands approved for discussion on this website, as far as I can tell.
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Ooops! Sorry, you'll just have to accept apologies from Hughes and myself for our diversion .
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Posted By: FELT GWRT DPKPSXY
Date Posted: November 21 2008 at 17:24
I have to go with Rush. I've been a fan of them longer and know their music better. Also IMO everything Rush has done is awesome. I like Pink Floyd but haven't listened to them as long as Rush. Dark Side of the Moon is one of my all-time favorites though, and I'm liking them more and more every time I listen to them.
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Posted By: Takeshi Kovacs
Date Posted: November 21 2008 at 18:20
Good to see common sense prevailing in this poll
------------- Open the gates of the city wide....
Check out my music taste: http://www.last.fm/user/TakeshiKovacs/
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Posted By: Philip
Date Posted: November 22 2008 at 17:14
Posted By: Sinner
Date Posted: December 18 2008 at 00:19
Posted By: rogerthat
Date Posted: December 18 2008 at 04:40
Ah, the age old guitarist debate. I think both sides make mistakes each time it is carried out. Don't kid yourself, Malmsteen would play circles over Gilmour, no doubt about it, call it what you will, emotionless shredding, technicality - which by the way is what I think of most shred-guitarists! - but he is a more capable guitarist, that's all. It offends the ego of most Gilmour fans and they deny it with all their might everytime and try to belittle Malmsteen's abilities, which is going nowhere. In any case, we are here comparing Rush and Pink Floyd, so Malmsteen goes out of my post right here. Now tell me, fellow Floyd fans, do you really listen to Gilmour's solos because you think he can put everybody else to shame with his solos? No, you don't, it's simply that Gilmour is a better composer than say Lifeson. I don't play guitar, so how hard Gilmour is to play or not I can't tell but if so many guitarists think it's that easy, I take it that it is. He can come up with a more tasteful and touching bunch of notes that you won't get tired of listening to and that's where his strength is. It doesn't take the hardest possible notes to play to build a great song. Now...that Gilmour is indeed a master composer is up for debate - I rate Hackett above him in building up magical guitar moments - and it is perfectly understandable if you should find Lifeson's solos more soulful because what is soulful music is not set in stone. But at least now there is a valid frame of reference. If you say Pink Floyd are overrated because they 'can't play', you are missing the point. If you say they are not the atmosphere magicians they are made out to be, you've got a point, regardless of whether I agree with you.
As for topic, Pink Floyd, as good as Rush is, this is no contest for me.
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Posted By: mrcozdude
Date Posted: December 18 2008 at 04:45
Floyd for me,though i'm quite supprised how well rush or doing which is good to see.
------------- http://www.last.fm/user/cozfunkel/" rel="nofollow">
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Posted By: Roj
Date Posted: December 18 2008 at 04:55
rogerthat wrote:
Ah, the age old guitarist debate. I think both sides make mistakes each time it is carried out. Don't kid yourself, Malmsteen would play circles over Gilmour, no doubt about it, call it what you will, emotionless shredding, technicality - which by the way is what I think of most shred-guitarists! - but he is a more capable guitarist, that's all. It offends the ego of most Gilmour fans and they deny it with all their might everytime and try to belittle Malmsteen's abilities, which is going nowhere. In any case, we are here comparing Rush and Pink Floyd, so Malmsteen goes out of my post right here. Now tell me, fellow Floyd fans, do you really listen to Gilmour's solos because you think he can put everybody else to shame with his solos? No, you don't, it's simply that Gilmour is a better composer than say Lifeson. I don't play guitar, so how hard Gilmour is to play or not I can't tell but if so many guitarists think it's that easy, I take it that it is. He can come up with a more tasteful and touching bunch of notes that you won't get tired of listening to and that's where his strength is. It doesn't take the hardest possible notes to play to build a great song. Now...that Gilmour is indeed a master composer is up for debate - I rate Hackett above him in building up magical guitar moments - and it is perfectly understandable if you should find Lifeson's solos more soulful because what is soulful music is not set in stone. But at least now there is a valid frame of reference. If you say Pink Floyd are overrated because they 'can't play', you are missing the point. If you say they are not the atmosphere magicians they are made out to be, you've got a point, regardless of whether I agree with you.
As for topic, Pink Floyd, as good as Rush is, this is no contest for me.
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rogerthat, if your comment was aimed at me (a fellow Roger ), you'll note I wasn't comparing the respective merits of messrs Gilmour and Malmsteen. Somebody (not Hughesy!) had posted saying that Gilmour was mediocre because he's slow and boring. I merely had stated that just because Gilmour doesn't shred at the speed of light doesn't mean he's mediocre.
I actually really rate Malmsteen, and don't doubt he's technically better, but to slate Gilmour as mediocre is pretty senseless.
Anyway, I will leave it there fellow Roger!!
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Posted By: rogerthat
Date Posted: December 18 2008 at 05:00
Roj M30 wrote:
rogerthat, if your comment was aimed at me (a fellow Roger ), you'll note I wasn't comparing the respective merits of messrs Gilmour and Malmsteen. Somebody (not Hughesy!) had posted saying that Gilmour was mediocre because he's slow and boring. I merely had stated that just because Gilmour doesn't shred at the speed of light doesn't mean he's mediocre.
I actually really rate Malmsteen, and don't doubt he's technically better, but to slate Gilmour as mediocre is pretty senseless.
Anyway, I will leave it there fellow Roger!!
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It wasn't directed at you in particular but there are a few points that are made every time this virtuosity v/s soul debate crops up and I have been getting rather bored of it. Truth be told, it was a rant taking shape within all this time and I just thought I would post it here because it looked like a good opportunity. If you read my post, I have said that to say Floyd are overrated because they can't play is to miss the point because their music did not focus on their technical abilities, regardless of how proficient they were or weren't.
By the way, I am no fellow roger, it's just a nick based on - you guessed it - Roger Waters.
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Posted By: Roj
Date Posted: December 18 2008 at 05:08
rogerthat wrote:
By the way, I am no fellow roger, it's just a nick based on - you guessed it - Roger Waters. |
Good choice. That's even better!!
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Posted By: Atavachron
Date Posted: December 18 2008 at 05:15
anyone who thinks Gilmour's chops are easy just hasn't been playing themselves long enough.. his incredible, almost inhuman bends and blues mastery are unique in rock, especially with SR Vaughan gone.. you ask a session man and he'll tell you Gilmour is one of the finest, most pro players in the world
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Posted By: Floydoid
Date Posted: December 18 2008 at 05:59
A no brainer.
------------- 'We're going to need a bigger swear jar.'
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