17%
Printed From: Progarchives.com
Category: Other music related lounges
Forum Name: Proto-Prog and Prog-Related Lounge
Forum Description: Discuss bands and albums classified as Proto-Prog and Prog-Related
URL: http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=52664
Printed Date: November 26 2024 at 09:22
Software Version: Web Wiz Forums 11.01 - http://www.webwizforums.com
Topic: 17%
Posted By: anael
Subject: 17%
Date Posted: October 18 2008 at 00:36
|
mmmm oh hell! Metallica?
the only thing i gotta say is that people shouldn't judge the whole discography by a band (not specially Metallica) by only one proggy album, the same thing with Journey! The Who! The Doors! and some more bands......
Metallica is not a Prog band and that's it!!!! if it is, then Chicago is another prog band right?
if PA will judge a band by one album of a band's discography then please consider these bands too:
The Chicago Transit Authority
Chicago
Goldfrapp
For The Mathematics
Atlas of ID
Jack Rose
ES
Fursaxa
Majik Markers
Kemialliset Ystävät
Brothers of The Occult Sisterhood
A Palace in Persia
The Spacious Mind
You Slut!
Terracid
Wolfmangler
Rialzu
Rahmann
Ultima Spiaggia
Grateful Dead
Super Freego
Frakkur
Maps
Sleeping People
Klimt 1918
some time ago i suggest more bands such as:
Of Sinking Ships
Don't Mess With Texas
Radio Massacre International
Dreamies
Kundalini Snakes
Jesu
Exenogenesis
San Agustin
Permanent Fatal Error
Ulan Bator
Shibuzashirazu Orchestra
Moolah
Ben Reynolds
Enmedio
Trans Vita Express
Costin Mierenau
Friends In The Mountains
Darryl Ways' Wolf
Oneida
Landing
Aspects Of Physics
Cotton Casino
Daturah
Sonna
Polmo Polpo
Main
Timonium
thanks ------------- 
|
Replies:
Posted By: Avantgardehead
Date Posted: October 18 2008 at 02:29
|
They're not a prog band, so that's why they're in prog-related...
------------- http://www.last.fm/user/Avantgardian |
Posted By: MikeEnRegalia
Date Posted: October 18 2008 at 04:02
Sorry, but I think that you got it wrong here. If people say that an album is "proggy", that has nothing to do with the other albums of the discography. The fact that here in the archives genres and progressiveness status is bound to the artist level is simply a technical limitation of the database architecture. ------------- https://awesomeprog.com/users/Mike" rel="nofollow">Recently listened to: 
|
anael wrote:Posted By: russellk
Date Posted: October 18 2008 at 04:34
|
Makes you wonder why Teo and his collaborators put so much effort into their explanation of why METALLICA is in prog-related if SCs don't bother to read it: http://www.progarchives.com/artist.asp?id=4022. "Not directly a progressive-metal band," Teo says. He then justifies their inclusion by the following statement about 'Master of Puppets':"without question one of the most important and influential albums in the history of progressive-metal." Surely that renders any further questions moot? Not a progressive band but responsible for an important prog-metal album. Sounds like prog-related to me. |
Posted By: Raff
Date Posted: October 18 2008 at 07:34
| A number of the bands you suggested are already in the database (for instance, Sleeping People, whom were added when I was responsible for the Art Rock team, therefore over a year ago, and Rialzu). Don't want to sound confrontational or anything, but I think that, before starting a thread about a topic that has been discussed to death, and about which NO ONE has ever had the nerve to do something useful (i.e. write to M@x and ask him to change the site's rules), people should check their facts. |
Posted By: aapatsos
Date Posted: October 18 2008 at 08:45
|
Posted By: micky
Date Posted: October 18 2008 at 09:29
oh man.... first off brother... this a progressive rock site... NOT.. I repeat NOT allmusic.com. This site is not a career retrospective site... if someone wants to know about St. Anger.. or the black album... they can go elsewhere. What this site does is illuminate.. or spotlight progressive rock.. and yes.. .sometimes that music comes from bands that are traditionally known as progressive rock group. Would you like to have a site where GREAT prog rock albums are not available .. not able to be discussed or reviewed.. made available for discovery.. simply because they are not KNOWN as prog groups. Ask yourself brother.. why are YOU here... it is for the music... or for the groups. ------------- The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip |
Posted By: micky
Date Posted: October 18 2008 at 09:41
|
as an example of what I am talking about Anael.... does anyone here know who Alan Sorrenti is... and if so how would you categorize their career. ------------- The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip |
Posted By: Kotro
Date Posted: October 18 2008 at 09:44
|
That's all pretty good in theory, Michael, but the fact remains that the site's working has always been built around artists (along with this disease called completionism) and not albums, as it should be. That was one of my first complaints when I arrived here 4 years ago, and all the problems I anticipated then have all became fact. Too late to solve then now... ------------- Bigger on the inside. |
Posted By: Raff
Date Posted: October 18 2008 at 09:51
Alan Sorrenti... One of the most interesting Italian prog artists of the early Seventies (called by some the Italian Tim Buckley for his distinctive vocal style) for the space of just three albums. After his third, self-titled album, he turned into a clone of The Bee Gees, with utter abominations such as the notorious Figli delle stelle . Having been a big fan of his early output, I couldn't believe my ears when I heard of his U-turn. That was a waste of talent if I'd ever seen one ... Something similar happened to another seminal RPI band of the same period, New Trolls (of Concerto Grosso fame). Their pop albums of the Eighties make the likes of Invisible Touch sound like Close to the Edge. These are just two examples... Are we then going to remove Alan Sorrenti or New Trolls because they are better known in their home country as POP artists, and because the greater part of their output is anything but prog - even if every prog site (international or not) lists them as essential for the movement known as Italian Progressive Rock? |
Posted By: micky
Date Posted: October 18 2008 at 09:58
|
exactly my sk..... He is a pop artist... of the most banal dreary kind of pop that appeals to little girls. However he made one of the ESSENTIAL prog albums ... an album highly regarded by all prog fans.. not jut fans of what came out of Italy. So .... should we have not added him. As I have posted time and time again.... many artists had prog phases and moved on.. and yes.. many became famous or better known (the infernal tags and labels) as something else. Should this site not add these people and groups because they are POP artists... come on. Kotro.. not a theory.. M@X understands this... this is not my brainchild.. just one of the few that follows and understands what he wants. The rules are .. a prog album.. and you should be here. The problem is people want to judge a career.. and are not listening to the music. Metallica .... they hit Prog Metal heaven with And Justice for All.. and decided they had done what they wanted.. progresssed that form as far as they thought they would or could.. and moved on.... so are they punished for having done this. Christ... this is not a popularity contest.. we are the business of categorizing progressive rock... not the groups that made them. M@X knows that.. it is not a theory. ------------- The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip |
Posted By: Kotro
Date Posted: October 18 2008 at 10:19
|
"we are the business of categorizing progressive rock... not the groups that made them"
But you see, Mick, that's the exact oposite of what this site has been doing since it opened. And that is a fundamental problem - the apparent need to add bands in order to add albums. Artists are not prog or pop or whatever - their albums are. What the site has been doing, and that is a reason for this whole mess, it trying to categorize people based on their product instead of the product alone: take Psychedelic/Space-Rock - two similar yet different kinds of music in one genre. Why? Would you like to bet that it was because a label was needed to classify a certain prog giant that endeavored in both genres?
I can absolutely agree with an album by Metallica, Alan Sorrenti, José Cid, Toto, Mansun, etc, being added because it is considered by the listeners as "prog". But does that mean the whole band should be added along with their entire catalogue, independently of genre, and then label the band and not the album? ProgArchives seems to think so. I have never agreed with that, but what can I do? PA is still a lot better that others prog websites out there. I just lve with it.
OK, that's my annual rant against PA organization. I'll shush now. ------------- Bigger on the inside. |
Posted By: micky
Date Posted: October 18 2008 at 10:31
hahhaa.. for what it is worth.. I agree with you 100% and is why working for the site and the genre teams in particular is no walk on the beach. The way the site is set up is where you have to add artists to get to what counts... the music itself. In a perfect world we wouldn't have to add the whole discographies.. but if PA's has taught us anything... when it comes to prog.. we ALL have different notions. Getting bands added here can be a chore... want to take that headache.. and multiply it times a 100 and fight over individual albums. What M@X decided was the best for the site... what people need to understand is we are adding.. and judging the music... not the artist. Not the career.. though... unfortunately... that is I suspect not what all do. That is where things break down. ------------- The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip |
Posted By: anael
Date Posted: October 19 2008 at 00:33
|
well..... i got nothing to say except that i will never have the power to do something important in PA i just wanna help and to say what i feel
and now that i get your attention
just a little suggestion for you guys those who have the power to do something:
in June 18 2007 <------------ONE YEAR AGO!!!! i reported that a Kawabata Makoto solo album it's in the AMT discography...please, please could you remove it?
http://www.progarchives.com/album.asp?id=12607 - http://www.progarchives.com/album.asp?id=12607 -------------
|
Posted By: Alberto Muñoz
Date Posted: October 19 2008 at 20:49
Strange opinion specially form a SC.  -------------  |
Posted By: micky
Date Posted: October 19 2008 at 20:54
we only have the power to infect ... not to amputate  ------------- The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip |
Posted By: memowakeman
Date Posted: October 20 2008 at 17:19
 but don't talk about amputation in front of Anael, you will remind him of his beloved awesome and so original band called TMV, and when it happens i can't stand him  , just kidding pal------------- Follow me on twitter @memowakeman |
Posted By: TGM: Orb
Date Posted: October 20 2008 at 18:56
The way I understand it: PA aims to be the most powerful/complete prog rock resource. To do that, you need to include every prog album. Even those of artists who were not primarily prog. Now, the options are twofold: 1. Include entire discographies of those artists. 2. Pick out individual albums. The problem with 2 is that it'd precipitate even more bickering than we have at the moment about what is and isn't prog. I've never considered, for instance, Grace Under Pressure, a very progressive album. Less so than Love Over Gold or Strange Days, for instance. Would we then have to pick it out and discuss it to justify its continued inclusion? Personally, always thought of The Doors as a pretty progressive band, judging on the four albums of theirs I've got. |
Posted By: The Quiet One
Date Posted: October 20 2008 at 19:01
Agree 100%, as well as for the OPost. |
Posted By: npjnpj
Date Posted: October 23 2008 at 08:11
|
Someone above was moaning about the completist attitude this site adopts. For what it's worth: This site wouldn't be what it is without it, and as a consequence, no other Prog site even comes close to PA. Apart from that discussions like these show that the people here care! And that's great. |
Posted By: The Prognaut
Date Posted: October 27 2008 at 15:28
Think most of us are in here for the music...
Some music is entitled to be represented by a certain numerous and extensive bands and thus, genres and trends come to life as music progresses and evolves.
I agree this isn't the site to check upon the dicogs and bios of bands that might appear as outsiders. But more than agree, I believe that only becasue certain kinds of music related somewhat to mainly prog streams, they shouldn't be called "Prog" or "Prog Related". I hate to say that to incur in misleadings at the time of filing a band under certain genre is very common around here, but the fact of messing up on that matter ain't the central problem, the real issue IS TO BELIEVE THAT ONLY BECAUSE A CERTAIN BAND'S BEEN ADDED TO THE ARCHIVES, THEY IRREMEDIABLY TURN INTO PROG ROCK IN THAT MOMENT.
Like I learned once around here not to point out before knowing, I suggest not to get easily sidetracked and read each other wisely and fairly. That's all I ask.
Cheers,
------------- break the circle reset my head wake the sleepwalker and i'll wake the dead |