Certif1ed - The "Band"
Printed From: Progarchives.com
Category: Other music related lounges
Forum Name: Music and Musicians Exchange
Forum Description: Talk with and get feedback from other musicians on the site
URL: http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=51556
Printed Date: December 04 2024 at 17:07
Software Version: Web Wiz Forums 11.01 - http://www.webwizforums.com
Topic: Certif1ed - The "Band"
Posted By: Certif1ed
Subject: Certif1ed - The "Band"
Date Posted: September 05 2008 at 09:29
|
The Intro blurb (skip to the bottom of this post to find our new demo!).
I looked for the old thread, but didn't realise that it's nearly a year since we've actually finished anything... I know it's been a long time, but phew!
Sadly, "Modern Man" has been retired from the Progressive Rock charts over at Garageband - not sure why, as it was still getting reasonable reviews - but now we need to get a new track in there, before "Avoiding" and "Strange" follow suit.
I'm hoping that this one will stand a chance - over the last year or so, and particularly in the last 4 months, I've been honing my sound engineering skillz.
What this piece is....
This piece is more a demonstration of mix quality than composition, so it won't win Progressive piece of the year - and the glaring holes clearly show that we're still only part way through re-engineering this piece.
Although it's obviously a WIP, I think it demonstrates an even closer fusion of rock/metal and electronica than we've managed in the past - and hopefully we'll actually finish it this year sometime!
As ever, comments on what you like or don't like are more than welcome - and if you've got any mixing tips (in a general sense rather than for the more obvious "events" in the piece), then all the better.
The Tech stuff:
We've got the rhythm guitars hard panned 100% L-R, with 100Hz rolled off all instruments except the bass, which has 40Hz rolloff. We also chopped a narrow band at ~600Hz, depending on the instrument to increase mix transparency, and rolled off the air on some of the more complex analogue synth sounds - but I still think the synths could cut through better and be a more menacing part of the texture.
The drums are giving the biggest headache - having cleared plenty of space for the kick, which cuts through OK, the snare has almost vanished on most loops, and the cymbals are lacking in the crash that is present in the original wav file.
I'm hoping that there's a kinda generic narrow EQ band that we can trim from the instruments to allow these to poke through, but I'm not sure how to calculate it - so I'm hoping someone already knows a rough area to investigate (we want shortcuts, not courses!).
The MUSIC
 Here it is - the first new Certif1ed piece for a year or so: http://www.4shared.com/file/61825334/bea988fa/GAWWI.html - http://www.4shared.com/file/61825334/bea988fa/GAWWI.html
The password is Pr0gArchives
Enjoy!
------------- The important thing is not to stop questioning. |
Replies:
Posted By: cobb2
Date Posted: September 06 2008 at 10:37
|
So hard to get anybody to say anything about others work around here. What's the go? If you are into progressive music you must have a thirst for listening to new music- I know I do. Pull your finger out, you lot and support your peers. Anyway Cert, great production. Loved the sound- what came to mind was Hawkwind, or more particularly Hawklords- don't know why! Fantastic work on the vocals, but do I detect a reluctant singer who doesn't have faith in his own ability. Either way it worked to a treat. Liked the squeaky, shiny synths over the gutsy, grungy guitars. Nice one. |
Posted By: Easy Money
Date Posted: September 06 2008 at 11:30
|
Hey Mark, nice track. I find that boosting 2.5 a bit will help snares cut through, add too much and you get that 'Roundabout' sound.
I like the fact that the lyrics have something to say, but the vocals are the weak point, with a better singer you could compete with the big boys. The music hit me as grungy metal with an IDM influence. You can check out my acid jazz demos at myspace.com/zazerac or just click on my homepage. P.S. I like the arrangement, 'proggy' but not in a gtatuitous way. The different sections make sense. |
Posted By: MikeEnRegalia
Date Posted: September 06 2008 at 12:36
|
Nice track! I like the production, but I think that the drums need to be a bit louder and the guitar - especially the high-gain parts - need a bit more presence. As far as the song is concerned: It reminded me of Porcupine Tree a lot ... especially of tracks like Deadwing or Signify, which - like this track - are centered around a heavy guitar track, with an extended break in the middle during which the song becomes very silent/atmospheric and then slowly picks up intensity again.  ------------- https://awesomeprog.com/users/Mike" rel="nofollow">Recently listened to: 
|
Posted By: Certif1ed
Date Posted: September 08 2008 at 02:45
|
Thanks for the support, guys - the positive tone of the comments so far is really engouraging!
That could have something to do with me being a big Hawkwind fan - although I've never listened to any of the Hawklords stuff.
It was probably a bit unfair of me to post this Work In Progress (I just get frustrated that we've got about 30-40 WIPs and no demos at the moment...) - the vox are all first take prototypes, so Andy was working out the melody as he went along - and there's still a verse missing that needs to be written.
We've found some settings in Antares that we've never played with before, so hopefully the vox will be even better sounding on the next mix. My personal taste is for Antares to be undetectable - it's everywhere these days, and I hate the sound of it!
I tried an experiment on one of my solo tracks last night, and found I could punch a hole in around 1.7 in the other parts and get more snare - so thanks for putting me in the right ballpark!
I always try to cut rather than boost, and while it's painstaking, going through each part and snipping a little seems to work better to my ears than boosing an individual track.
The other thing I want to do is to try to get the IDM part of it a bit more forward, so it sounds more like fusion than an influence.
Interestingly, the way I got more gain out of the rhythm guitars was to CUT the gain! I also deliberately cut the presence, following advice I got from Brandon Drury's Home Recording forum, which is excellent http://forum.recordingreview.com/ - http://forum.recordingreview.com/ - I'm signed up there as my alter-ego Bludgeoning Spawn, BTW.
On the Virtual amp, I took the gain down to 7, stripped most of the bass and low mid, and upped the channel volume as high as I could without it clipping - so it peaked around -0.5db.
There's NO compression on the guitars - the sound was so consistent it didn't need it, and sounds more natural to my ears.
You're right about the drums - hopefully bringing the bass down a couple of notches will help fix that.
Thanks again for the positive comments - I hope the production tweaks I mentioned are useful, and here goes mix 2 with the additional tweaks I'm picking up... ------------- The important thing is not to stop questioning. |
cobb2 wrote:
Posted By: Tony R
Date Posted: September 08 2008 at 07:32
| Nice! Sounds like 2008 Porcupine Tree meets 1995 Porcupine Tree. Probably your most accessible track to date. |
Posted By: Certif1ed
Date Posted: October 11 2008 at 15:34
|
Here's another one - but a bit more rough and ready than the last one - the last verse is missing, and there are production gaffes all over the place. Things we're going to address (but won't have time for, for the next few weeks, sadly);
1) The bass is too boomy and loses time - I was trying to do a single-take improv for the entire track.
2) The guitar solo is submerged in the mix.
3) The rhythm guitars generally are a bit too tinny, thanks to my new habit of stripping the mids. I reckon we can put some mid range back for some meatiness.
Here it is: http://www.4shared.com/file/66550540/ecfa7e4/LiarLiar7.html - http://www.4shared.com/file/66550540/ecfa7e4/LiarLiar7.html
Apart from this, I really like this new song of ours - anyone else concur? ------------- The important thing is not to stop questioning. |
Posted By: cobb2
Date Posted: October 12 2008 at 04:18
|
Like it. Some nice guitar panning. I thought the guitar could have used more highs- don't know whether you EQ'd out the highs or you recorded from the front pickup, but it tended to be a bit muddy. Good melody in the vocals, but too soft at times- it sounds good, so bring em up a little. Great song, with great potential, so yes- I concur. addition: I am still humming it after one listen, so some nice hooks in there. |
Posted By: Certif1ed
Date Posted: October 13 2008 at 03:46
|
Thanks, cobb2!
Now I go back to it I hear what you mean - I heard the rhythm guitars as tinny, and overcompensated by minimally EQ'ing the bass (I only rolled off 40Hz). Yes, I used the front pickup - and it's an EMG Hz, which is probably why it's so "fizzy" in places - but I wanted the thicker sound, because even the SD Invaders on the Westone don't seem to deliver that amount of meat when you drop-tune down to C.
I think it's the bass sound providing the "mud" on the whole - it's a 5-string, and I'm a bit nervous of eqing at the bottom end, as the B string tends to disappear altogether! Maybe I need to experiment a bit more here, because my standard trick of killing 600k just kills the bass sound, as I'm (unusually for me) using all 5 strings in the runs.
That was the "after" on the vox - I EQ'd and brought up every part in the mix, even adding some <5k boost to help them cut through. We'll definitely revisit those, as, like everything else we do, they're essentially take 1 prototypes.
I guess repeated listens to all that booming isn't too good for the ears... back to the mixing board! ------------- The important thing is not to stop questioning. |
Posted By: Certif1ed
Date Posted: October 24 2008 at 09:12
|
We got some bonus studio time
Did we work on our existing stuff?
Did we heck as like
 Instead, we worked on this little ditty that's been skulling around the "Prototypes" bin since August... last year
 http://www.4shared.com/file/68208940/47bbb2fa/Watching_10.html - http://www.4shared.com/file/68208940/47bbb2fa/Watching_10.html
It's still a prototype as ever - there's no last verse, the ending requires a lot of tidying up, and the guitar solo needs a shape rather than a random selection of widdly-woo. It was fun, though.
This one's a bit Halloweeny, with Theremin and church organ (presets!), Thrash metal style riffs (a first for us!) - and even cookie monster vocals buried somewhere under the crypts of the chorus.
They're watching you...
 edit: BTW, you'll need to turn it right up to hear the intro properly...  ------------- The important thing is not to stop questioning. |
Posted By: Negoba
Date Posted: October 24 2008 at 10:51
|
I listened to the latest piece. Overall you guys have a great sound. The mix of heavy guitars and spacy keys works well for me. Song-wise, the repeated refrain happened a little too often for me though certainly the layering made it still interesting to listen to during that part. Recording-wise, the rhythm guitars really are overpowering the mix. The lead vocals are covered up a bit and the drums and solo guitar are really low. The stereo split and double is a classic technique that sounds great, but it also allows you to lower levels a little bit. On headphones having one side of the rhythm guitar alternate between doubling and a counterline is something I'm not sure about. You've pulled it off better than I have in the past but I typically choose to double all the way through or really make the two sides contrast, separate tones, separate lines, the whole thing. Just some mix ideas. This is great material to work with. The sound are good, the parts weave well. Nice work. ------------- You are quite a fine person, and I am very fond of you. But you are only quite a little fellow, in a wide world, after all. |
Posted By: Alberto Muņoz
Date Posted: October 24 2008 at 12:31
|
I will download and listen your music.
-------------  |
Posted By: Alberto Muņoz
Date Posted: October 24 2008 at 12:49
|
Cert this error appear:
http://www.4shared.com/linkerror.jsp?cau=1256&fid=61825334 - http://www.4shared.com/linkerror.jsp?cau=1256&fid=61825334 ------------- |
Posted By: Certif1ed
Date Posted: October 24 2008 at 17:20
|
Hmm - I just tried it (on my laptop instead of my desktop), and got the file OK - and I see there have been 4 downloads...
Try again - and if you still can't get it, there's some more of our stuff on http://www.myspace.com/Certif1ed - http://www.myspace.com/Certif1ed - I've put Liar, Liar and Getting Away With It up there, and I'll stick this song up there once we've worked on the arrangement a bit - I agree that there are way too many chorus iterations, and the rhythm guitars are too loud - and everything Negoba said.
The solo guitar is low for a reason - it's just noodle. I do try to make my solos have a logical flow that fits the song, but in this case, I just wanted something to give an idea of what the song would sound like with a solo in there.
We've got another session booked for Thursday - so hopefully we'll work on this some more, but we've got yet another song in the pipeline, which is a metal/trance/techno fusion... ------------- The important thing is not to stop questioning. |
Posted By: cobb2
Date Posted: October 24 2008 at 17:37
|
Thoughts as I listen:
For a first take this has loads of potential. The song structure is interesting and appealing, but not in a popular, commercial sense, I think. Again good hooks in the melody. The tone on the heavy, crunchy guitars give it a dated feel (hence the hawkwind- I think). Given full production and real drums, this observance would probably disappear. An excellent mix for (as you call them) 'prototype'. When are we going to hear something that is beyond the prototype stage? |
Posted By: Certif1ed
Date Posted: October 27 2008 at 08:43
|
Hmm - interesting about the tones - Rhythm 1 is using the "Master of Puppets" preset, and Rhythm 2 is using the "Satch Boogie" preset on the Pod XT - we were rather hoping for a modern guitar sound.
That said, I did find the "Master" preset a bit too bottom-oriented, so I cut some of that, to kill the boom, and removed the reverb and cut the presence on the Satch Boogie so it didn't cut through too much or muck up the "thrashy" riffs.
I really don't know when we can release anything beyond prototype, as we simply don't seem to have enough time (we get 3 hours most Thursday nights, and that's it) - and there are about 20 songs which we reckon are good enough to let people hear.
With positive feedback like this, though, I think we'll be concentrating on getting a good mix/arrangement (and redoing vox and solos) in the new year, and maybe release a 4-track EP in the first quarter. The other song I mentioned will probably be the 4th - I'll stick it up here after our next 3-hour session, provided we can come up with some lyrics...
We don't know any drummers though, and the production is going to have to be a hand-rolled job... we're getting better, but neither of us will make George Martin look over his shoulder... ------------- The important thing is not to stop questioning. |
Posted By: Certif1ed
Date Posted: October 31 2008 at 11:29
|
Watcher remixed - with missing verse and a few tweaks. I think the rhythm guitar still needs to go down a bit in places, and maybe we could trim a bit more fat - but it's getting closer to a finished piece - and just in time for Halloween
 http://www.4shared.com/file/69148415/971dfeb9/Watching_11.html - http://www.4shared.com/file/69148415/971dfeb9/Watching_11.html ------------- The important thing is not to stop questioning. |
Posted By: cobb2
Date Posted: October 31 2008 at 22:19
|
Much better mix. Everything clearly defined in its pan. Drums, guitar and bass much better balance- it rocks. Vocals finally at a good level. Keyboards coming through like Uriah Heap in their fantasy period- nothing bad about that, I loved Heap. Well done- something to be proud of. |
Posted By: Certif1ed
Date Posted: March 09 2009 at 05:12
|
4 months later, and we've been honing our mixing skillz - and I've been getting my teeth into mastering, the final stage on the voyage to getting a real product out there
So this is what I did to http://www.4shared.com/file/91895738/1ee64fb0/cookie11b-zFLMastered1.html - Watching "simply" by adding a multi-band compressor, 7-band equaliser, stereo enhancer and limiter to the final (re)mix;
We've got some more tracks to come, since we never stop writing - but by the time I post the newer stuff, I'll have had a chance to rework some of it (songs are never "finished" - they're ALWAYS "In Progress"  ).------------- The important thing is not to stop questioning. |
Posted By: cobb2
Date Posted: March 10 2009 at 17:39
| Excellent choice of mastering effects- you have given the song that "shine"- vague way to put it, but that's what I feel mastering does to the final mix. |
Posted By: Certif1ed
Date Posted: March 11 2009 at 04:17
|
Thanks - I got one of my solo project tracks mastered by a guy on Brandon Drury's Home Recording website and realised that this is the main difference between our stuff as it stands and something we can actually feel OK about trying to sell to people. Here's another demo from the now bottomless pit; http://www.4shared.com/file/83874019/221c392/01_FaliingDown5.html - http://www.4shared.com/file/83874019/221c392/01_FaliingDown5.html
This one is a bit more proggy, in that it has a 4-minute floaty intro with a filter-sweep keyboard sound and a demonstration by of just how much sustain you can get out of a Westone, especially when you keep it on the edge of feeding back. I really like the intro, despite the fact that it's obviously just us mucking about in the studio.
The song that follows is a two-part thing (we're going to drop the key change at the end), and seems to improve with frequent listens - it feels a bit stodgy to start, but it does feel right contextually, even if I could improve the performance considerably.
Anyway, enjoy "Falling Down".
------------- The important thing is not to stop questioning. |
Posted By: cobb2
Date Posted: March 11 2009 at 05:05
| Like the start, then like the rocky feel to the main part. Hope you don't mind, but I feel the fade out of the first part and then the thump into the dah-dah guitar could have been better with a gradual build up of the noodling section- overlay some guitars and keys and maybe some non-intrusive percussion (not drums). Gradual build up until you get to level of the dah-dah. Just a thought, cause I like it anyway. |
Posted By: Certif1ed
Date Posted: March 19 2009 at 13:33
|
I always appreciate comments, and time spent actually listening to our stuff... thanks!
It's jam night tonight, and I've just bought 2 (yes, 2!) Westone Thunder IIAs - the bass and guitar version, so we definitely won't have any newly completed songs tonight.
So here's one from a couple of months ago; http://www.4shared.com/file/93819817/5a0a92ce/ListenToMe7a.html - http://www.4shared.com/file/93819817/5a0a92ce/ListenToMe7a.html
We started out calling this the belly dance number, as it was a kind of mickey-take on some of the rubbish on the radio. But it soon evolved into this thing that's half Gabriel, half metal, half 1960s psych rock and half disco-pop or something. Not sure why - it just felt good to do it this way. ------------- The important thing is not to stop questioning. |
Posted By: Certif1ed
Date Posted: April 18 2009 at 12:49
|
http://www.4shared.com/file/100085363/92547c5/19_-_Driven_5.html - 19 - Driven 5.mp3 Driven is our latest opus - we've been collaborating with a guy from work, hence the slower progress than normal. This song sprang from the jams we had around the ideas we had for his song... it's quite different to our usual style (if there is such a thing), and really picks up about half way through the guitar solo - so stick with it! ------------- The important thing is not to stop questioning. |
Posted By: Certif1ed
Date Posted: April 30 2009 at 06:03
|
Hey - we're #1 and #5 on Sectionz, we've got track of the week, and some great reviews!
(although I'm not sure that I like our music being compared to Opeth - Rammstein yes, in places, but Opeth????)
http://www.sectionz.com/ - http://www.sectionz.com/
(if the site doesn't load, try again later - it's been a bit dodgy recently) ------------- The important thing is not to stop questioning. |
Posted By: cobb2
Date Posted: April 30 2009 at 08:11
|
Well done! Just listened to 'Listen to me'. Excellent mix. I mean it- really good. Whoever does the mixing should be congratulated. This is very professional. Like the vocal harmonies. Thanks for the download, I think its a keeper.
|
Posted By: cobb2
Date Posted: April 30 2009 at 08:21
|
Driven- nice! Wait for the contract offers, shouldn't be long... addition shame none of the other 'music lovers' here will probably bother to listen, cause these are two outstanding demos.
|
Posted By: Certif1ed
Date Posted: May 15 2009 at 16:18
|
Heh - thanks again for your support, Cobb.
Mixing is very much a joint effort between myself and Andy. He does the technical stuff while I criticise the hell out of it... no change there. I also steal ideas voraciously from sites like Homerecording.com, and submit our mixes there for further criticism.
I've been a bit quiet recently because it looks like an actual band might be forming - no less than 3 additional musicians have been turning up to jam sessions.
The guy I mentioned earlier brought along a song he'd written, that I'll post when we've finally nailed the arrangement (he asked us to "grunge it up a bit", so it now sounds nothing like his original work) - and he's decided that he wants to be a drummer so much that he's gone out and bought a kit!
Have you produced anything recently?
Having heard your earlier material, I'd really like to hear what you can do with a "proper" guitar sound  ------------- The important thing is not to stop questioning. |
Posted By: progkidjoel
Date Posted: June 26 2009 at 21:56
|
Certif1ed
I've just attempted to download your MP3, but I've been prompted for a password before I can download. Could you please supply me with this password, or give me another option to download this track? Thankyou, -Joel ------------- 
|
Posted By: Certif1ed
Date Posted: June 27 2009 at 03:35
|
I posted it earlier in this thread - it's Pr0gArchives ------------- The important thing is not to stop questioning. |
Posted By: progkidjoel
Date Posted: June 27 2009 at 06:05
|
Oh
Thanks haha... Downloading it now.... *2.5 minutes later* Starting it now... Lovely stereophonics and sonic reproduction quality - And I don't generally notice that sort of Audiophile-ish stuff... 4:14(-ish) Very nice from here on in - Like the heavyness and Porcupine Tree-ness... Very good 
5:05(-ish) Also very much like this part - Really good stereo quality, only thing I may suggest is a slightly cleaner guitar noise. It sounds a little cliche to me - Not a big problem, still great. 6:41(-ish) The guitar noise here is much better, very good. Vocals are a little too low down in the mix. Great guitar work here aswell. 9/10 for this track - Very good, and also very very enjoyable. Thanks for posting it, I'd love to order an album sometime in the future if you ever release one... Will shipping be possible to Australia? 
-Joel -------------
|