tired of Tech/Extreme Prog choking up the site ?
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Topic: tired of Tech/Extreme Prog choking up the site ?
Posted By: Yorkie X
Subject: tired of Tech/Extreme Prog choking up the site ?
Date Posted: June 21 2008 at 03:40
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OPeth this Opeth that its not progressive this, it is progressive that .... I'm getting a little tired of Tech / Extreme prog bands being featured on this site in such a constant way, day after day it seems like always the same thing ... how about you ? <<< Yorkie X weaves and ducks rotten tomatoes and heads out the back door before the angry mob nails him to their upside down crucifix and sets fire to him.  |
Replies:
Posted By: WalterDigsTunes
Date Posted: June 21 2008 at 03:43
| Agreed. Cookie Monster belongs elsewhere. |
Posted By: laplace
Date Posted: June 21 2008 at 03:49
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no, I think the extreme metal bands tend to be doing something valid for the site, or at least the new part of the site - I know this sort of music rarely/barely shares traits with anything relevant from 1969-1977 but you can still call their music a progressive development.
I would've pointed my finger squarely at the crossover and progmetal sections; these are breeding grounds for instantly predictable music, at least from what's represented among 2008 releases... ------------- FREEDOM OF SPEECH GO TO HELL |
Posted By: Atavachron
Date Posted: June 21 2008 at 03:51
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at least there was something being talked about seriously, or would you rather just see another poll for favorite classic rock harmonica player? ..and I think it's great when a small genre like Tech gets some attention |
Posted By: Yorkie X
Date Posted: June 21 2008 at 03:53
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Laplace wrote:Posted By: Atavachron
Date Posted: June 21 2008 at 03:57
that's the spirit! |
Posted By: Yorkie X
Date Posted: June 21 2008 at 03:59
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Posted By: Rocktopus
Date Posted: June 21 2008 at 04:00
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I voted yes, because I'm generally tired of any focus on all things metal. But I'd rather take the extreme ones than the whole school of cheesemetal. (Much better name for it)
------------- Over land and under ashes In the sunlight, see - it flashes Find a fly and eat his eye But don't believe in me Don't believe in me Don't believe in me |
Posted By: JayDee
Date Posted: June 21 2008 at 04:06
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Incidentally, there also has been a lot of oppositions with the genre, that chokes us Tech Extreme metal believers. Classic progressive rock had it's day. We are not in the 1970s anymore. ------------- 
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Posted By: Henry Plainview
Date Posted: June 21 2008 at 04:13
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I think people are talking about Opeth a lot because they just had a new release that is fairly controversial and they're already a popular band. I don't even remember more than like one or two Opeth threads recently, which is hardly a great annoyance to me. And I have to agree with Atavachron, it's better than another mostly useless/rehash thread that will actively annoy me to see rather than one I can skip out of lack of interest. ;-) ------------- if you own a sodastream i hate you |
Posted By: Blacksword
Date Posted: June 21 2008 at 05:13
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I'm not a fan of death/extreme/tech/uber prog metal at all. However, I've been on this forum since 2004, and I think that the abundance of discussions on this type of music, is an indicator that there must be more younger members than ever before. I dont like generalising, but I'm fairly confident that this modern tech/death/prog metal appeals predominantly to younger prog fans.
Now, this is a good thing!! It keeps this site alive for a start. The music itself keeps some of the most important basic principles of prog alive (Cert1fied may disagree!) and if old timers like myself want to discuss codpieces and Mellotrons, they are at liberty to do so. We old schoolers know that there is only so many times you can vote on the best Genesis album. I say, if techno death metal threads get your goat, dont participate, just fight back with as many classic prog threads as you can! 
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Posted By: Atavachron
Date Posted: June 21 2008 at 05:26
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no sir! I'm no youngin, been a headbanger since the early 80s and Tech is the most exciting form of it to come along in awhile ..and Death and Tech have little to do with each other, Opeth may be considered 'Death' by some, but the backbone of Tech is Behold the Arctopus, Spastic Ink, Collapsar, Spiral Architect, etc... |
Posted By: Yorkie X
Date Posted: June 21 2008 at 05:26
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Posted By: dzx
Date Posted: June 21 2008 at 06:02
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in the broad spectrum of music they're progressive as in moving forward. certainly prefer that to the myriad of Dream Theatre clones. in any genre you always get the innovators and the copiers ------------- was that just an Am augmented minor 9th i heard? nice! |
Posted By: Hercules
Date Posted: June 21 2008 at 06:20
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Don't get me wrong - I like Opeth, but how they can be classed as progressive mystifies me. And as for bands like Meshuggah and Dillinger Escape Plan - words fail me.
------------- A TVR is not a car. It's a way of life. |
Posted By: Atavachron
Date Posted: June 21 2008 at 06:23
| care to mention a few metal bands you think are progressive..? |
Posted By: someone_else
Date Posted: June 21 2008 at 06:32
| Opeth may yet be called prog, but there is an orange alert threat of pollution by death metal acts which have a total lack of melodic content. An incidental 5/4 or 7/8 time signature, a few 7+ minute songs or a guitar solo played at triple speed don't turn metal into prog. |
Posted By: MikeEnRegalia
Date Posted: June 21 2008 at 06:48
Maybe it would be different if albums like Foxtrot or Pawn Hearts were still being released like they were in the 1970s ... but they are not. Like it or not, but Prog is changing.  ------------- https://awesomeprog.com/users/Mike" rel="nofollow">Recently listened to: 
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Posted By: GentleGiant
Date Posted: June 21 2008 at 06:56
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This Tech/Extreme (Prog ?) it's NOT progressive rock ,go away to the metal sites ------------- BeGiantForADay "This British band is just the cup of tea for aficionados who demand virtuosity,progress and originality in their mix." http://rateyourmusic.com/~GentleG |
Posted By: Atavachron
Date Posted: June 21 2008 at 06:59
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^ but it is progressive metal, a form of rock, which is why it's here.. I don't really see your point |
Posted By: MikeEnRegalia
Date Posted: June 21 2008 at 07:00
They don't want it there ... they say it's too progressive.  ------------- https://awesomeprog.com/users/Mike" rel="nofollow">Recently listened to:
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Posted By: Atavachron
Date Posted: June 21 2008 at 07:04
perfect.. we'll take it |
Posted By: Dean
Date Posted: June 21 2008 at 07:04
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[QUOTE=laplace] I would've pointed my finger squarely at the crossover and progmetal sections; these are breeding grounds for instantly predictable music, at least from what's represented among 2008 releases...[/QUOTE] ...which are?
...Radiohead's greatest hits, Abbandono Del Tempo E Delle Forme by J'Accuse..!, Tightly Unwound by Pinapple Thief, Selective Memory by Tempano (an excellent band from Venezuela) and Mike Oldfield's Music Of The Spheres (which is crossover-classical album not crossover-prog) and albums by Soniq Theater, Jeremy and Versus X.
...none of which have been exactly 'choking-up' the site recently as far as I recall. ------------- What? |
Posted By: MikeEnRegalia
Date Posted: June 21 2008 at 07:06
I'm not saying that this is a good and/or sufficient reason for something to be added here ... it's just something which should be taken into consideration. ------------- https://awesomeprog.com/users/Mike" rel="nofollow">Recently listened to:
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Posted By: Atavachron
Date Posted: June 21 2008 at 07:07
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^ of course |
Posted By: sleeper
Date Posted: June 21 2008 at 07:09
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I said no simply because Opeth are the only band that gets much talk about them, even the Fortress threads have stoped now.
------------- Spending more than I should on Prog since 2005 
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Posted By: GentleGiant
Date Posted: June 21 2008 at 07:10
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There are metal bands with progressive elements not progressive bands with metal elements.These feed their roots from heavy metal not from classic progressive rock
------------- BeGiantForADay "This British band is just the cup of tea for aficionados who demand virtuosity,progress and originality in their mix." http://rateyourmusic.com/~GentleG |
Posted By: MikeEnRegalia
Date Posted: June 21 2008 at 07:13
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^ So?
------------- https://awesomeprog.com/users/Mike" rel="nofollow">Recently listened to:
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Posted By: Atavachron
Date Posted: June 21 2008 at 07:14
agreed, but how does that not make those bands progressive metal? In fact, it seems to me you'd have to come from metal to progress it rather than trying to force classic prog and heavy metal together |
Posted By: b_olariu
Date Posted: June 21 2008 at 07:16
Well said Giant
 , is exactly what i think |
Posted By: The Crow
Date Posted: June 21 2008 at 07:18
No... I'm not tired at all. I love music. Not only prog... But speaking about prog, I'm into a lot of different prog styles, including Tech Metal. Sorry, but I don't think that Atheist or Opeth are less progressive than Marillion or Camel. They are totally different, but the attempt of creating challenging music, beyond the simple verse/chorus is there... If you are not agree, please read the Guides to Prog Rock again. I will write reviews about Camel, Yes, King Crimson, Van der Graaf Generator, Pink Floyd... I love this style of prog. But I also like Mastodon, Opeth, Atheist, Meshuggah, Orphaned Land, Tool, Therion... And I will continue reviewing this bands with great pleasure. The people who don't like this style of prog, please ignore it... But leave the more open-minded prog lovers give their opinion in peace, please. And Yorkie... You don't like Tech Metal, you wish Tech Metal is not in ProgArchives... Why are you giving Opeth's "Watershed" a one star rating then? Just only for demonstrate your disagree? I think it's a very coward attitude... If you don't like it, please avoid it (like I do with bands I don't like and I don't listen to...) or write a review giving your opinion, like Certif1ed did. Best regards! |
Posted By: Baza
Date Posted: June 21 2008 at 07:30
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I'm pretty tired of 70's prog, I rarely listen to it now. I'm not tired of Opeth yet.
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Posted By: GentleGiant
Date Posted: June 21 2008 at 07:31
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So ,with other words I say that these bands are the evolution results of metal rock not of progressive rock.This evolution it's not equal (in all cases) with "progressive" ...and a flower grow(evolution) but that don't means that this is a "progressive flower" .Don't mix the milk with the wine
------------- BeGiantForADay "This British band is just the cup of tea for aficionados who demand virtuosity,progress and originality in their mix." http://rateyourmusic.com/~GentleG |
Posted By: Dean
Date Posted: June 21 2008 at 07:49
The roots (and indeed the routes  ) and the processes are not relevant - it is only the end results that are important. Metal and Rock are not unrelated nor unconnected, so Prog variants of both are perfectly logical and acceptable. It doesn't mean you have to like them of course, but that doesn't make Progressive Metal invalid.------------- What? |
Posted By: Blacksword
Date Posted: June 21 2008 at 08:17
Yeah, I knew there were a few older prog metal fans here, which is why I said I dont like to generalise. By the same token not all classic prog fans are bearded, balding real ale drinkers, aged 40 and beyond.. Only the coolest ones....
I'm pretty sure though that if you went to an Opeth gig, the average age would be considerably less than at a Yes concert. This is not intended at all as a criticism of the music. Opeth, for example have had their moments for me, among others, notably Heavens Cry and Circus Maximus (not that these fall into the tech/death category, of course, but prog metal) Metal in any shape or form is far from my first choice of music these days, but prog metal in all its various guises has an very obvious place in our archives. |
Posted By: Norbert
Date Posted: June 21 2008 at 08:31
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No. Only the Watershed threads are getting a bit tiresome.
Other bands than Opeth rarely get even mentioned.
Ved Buens Ende, Spasctic Inc, Enslaved,Sigh threads... we have so many of them.
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Posted By: laplace
Date Posted: June 21 2008 at 08:41
hmm, perhaps I didn't mean crossover prog. I have no idea where Porcupine Tree et al are stored anymore :( ------------- FREEDOM OF SPEECH GO TO HELL |
Posted By: micky
Date Posted: June 21 2008 at 08:50
let's hope not ------------- The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip |
Posted By: Raff
Date Posted: June 21 2008 at 09:10
Just for the record: Porcupine Tree are in Heavy Prog. Personally, I am far from being a fan of theirs, and can't really see how they are so progressive - but that's just my opinion, and I would never say they should be ejected from PA. Anyway, I wonder why lately one out of every two threads becomes an excuse to put down something we don't like ....As for the issue at hand, though I am certainly no connoisseur of Tech-Extreme Metal, what I have heard of the subgenre has kindled my interest - especially the instrumental bands like Canvas Solaris (whose Penumbra Diffuse I play quite often). Being a very open-minded person, I don't understand the hostility towards anything connected with metal, nor do I get why there has to be such a rigid dichotomy between 'prog' and 'metal'. In the world of the arts, such things do not exist, unless it is in the minds of critics and such. Finally, I'd like to give you some food for thought... Are we so sure that, in the early Seventies, some of the more extreme subgenres of 'classic' prog (like Krautrock or RIO) were not seen by people in the same hostile way as prog-metal is seen nowadays? After all, many of those bands had harsh, even downright unpleasant vocals, dissonance, and what not... Or does the hostility rather stem from many prog fans' innate contempt for anything metal, which they see as the prerogative of subhumans? |
Posted By: MikeEnRegalia
Date Posted: June 21 2008 at 09:22
^ Have you listened to In Absentia? If not, consider this an honest recommendation! ------------- https://awesomeprog.com/users/Mike" rel="nofollow">Recently listened to:
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Posted By: Darklord55
Date Posted: June 21 2008 at 09:28
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Not tired of it at all. I try to keep opened minded about my musical tastes especially with prog. Although I have boundaries. Rap, Country, Hip-Hop, and most mainstream pop music. I like and grew up with the 70's prog and still listen to it. I also enjoy bands from most of the sub-genres listed on this site. Including tech/extreme. I am glad the bands are on this site, because if they weren't I probably wouldn't have heard about them. What I grow tired of is seeing review after review of Close to the Edge, Genesis albums, Jethro Tull, etc. etc. I'm not saying I don't like these bands. But, what more can be said about these albums that haven't already been said. I would like to see more reviews and opinions of some of the newer bands in the prog world. I would try but I'm not a very good reviewer. |
Posted By: Raff
Date Posted: June 21 2008 at 09:29
Yes, I have, and I actually own the CD... I don't dislike PT by any means, even if it wasn't very clear from my post. I just don't think they are God's gift to prog, as many others seem to maintain here. As far as 'Modern' prog is concerned, I lean more towards the TMV school of things . |
Posted By: MikeEnRegalia
Date Posted: June 21 2008 at 09:34
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^ actually I even think that they are "Anti-Prog" as far as style/genre is concerned. At least I think - having read many interviews and articles about him - that Steven Wilson doesn't like that label at all and is more concerned about making original music than to sound similar than those classic bands. ------------- https://awesomeprog.com/users/Mike" rel="nofollow">Recently listened to:
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Posted By: Dean
Date Posted: June 21 2008 at 09:40
Of course, the surest way of preventing Tech/Extreme Prog discussions from choking up the site is not to start threads about them ------------- What? |
Posted By: Yorkie X
Date Posted: June 21 2008 at 10:11
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Posted By: MikeEnRegalia
Date Posted: June 21 2008 at 10:14
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^ why did you buy it in the first place? There were two full tracks available to listen to on their myspace page. That's something I'll never understand. Guys, the ratings, reviews and samples aren't simply there for you to look at and discuss ... you might actually use them as a shopping guide. ------------- https://awesomeprog.com/users/Mike" rel="nofollow">Recently listened to:
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Posted By: Yorkie X
Date Posted: June 21 2008 at 10:19
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Posted By: Petrovsk Mizinski
Date Posted: June 21 2008 at 10:44
This 
^But not this Tech/Extreme prog metal is leading the way IMO, and I'm actually starting to like it more as a genre than Prog metal. If I want to hear music now, it's music that makes me think "yeah, this sounds like it was written today", I don't want to left thinking something from 2008 just sounds retro. The 1970s prog was superb and new at the time, and I still love it, but for today, I want to hear today's music and artists pushing into the futures and doing things I've not heard before. ------------- 
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Posted By: Mellotron Storm
Date Posted: June 21 2008 at 12:38
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The only thing i get tired of is people bashing genres of music.If you don't like it,so be it. We get people dumping on neo, or metal, or whatever they don't like, all the time.Why? Whats the point? A lot of people do take the criticism personally because for a lot of people their music is a part of them,it's who they are. And so guys come on and say Spock's Beard sucks for example, and have in the mean time insulted many people. Some of us are thicker skinned, or could care less what some loud mouth says about our music, but what's the point. ------------- "The wind is slowly tearing her apart" "Sad Rain" ANEKDOTEN |
Posted By: tszirmay
Date Posted: June 21 2008 at 13:07
Like you once so brilliantly stated, prog is like a buffet, you get to sample and taste a multitude of different textures and aromas, some right down your alley, some at the other extreme. What seems distasteful is left behind, so why make a big deal? The constant pigeon-holing and labeling is what criticized prog into submission (veering into more commercial zones) back in the glory days. So why do it now, again? I have no great interest in tech/metal prog, just like I don’t enjoy snails, cumin or lamb. Its not that it’s bad, I just simply can’t savor it and I don’t even ask myself how come. Why would a vegetarian food critic review a steakhouse, its nonsensical? ------------- I never post anything anywhere without doing more than basic research, often in depth. |
Its so much more positive to stick to what you enjoy than deliberately blast what you don’t like , we can do that with subjects outside the prog realm (politics, current music scene, film etc..) but this is a Prog site , let us all worship all of its fruits , at least WE can crow about diversity! Posted By: The Pessimist
Date Posted: June 21 2008 at 13:47
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No not really. I love extreme prog metal. It's prog, so it belongs here. But on the other hand, it seems that the majority of the modern prog scene is taken up purely by metal or metal influenced music. It would be nice for some more symphonic and lighter bands to appear, e.g. Mostly Autumn (who are one of my favourites at the moment) ------------- "Market value is irrelevant to intrinsic value." Arnold Schoenberg |
Posted By: Walker
Date Posted: June 21 2008 at 14:42
Very well said Tszirmay!
, |
Posted By: magnus
Date Posted: June 21 2008 at 15:16
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I think the group of people who bash tech/extreme metal are people who a) have tender ears or b) base their opinion of the genre on a very small sample of music from said genre. In both cases, the reasoning includes a lot of ignorance on the listener's side. There's a saying that goes: "know your enemy(in this case, a genre of music)". ------------- The scattered jigsaw of my redemption laid out before my eyes Each piece as amorphous as the other - Each piece in its lack of shape a lie 
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Posted By: Visitor13
Date Posted: June 21 2008 at 15:25
| No, just thought that one thread for Watershed would have been enough. |
Posted By: limeyrob
Date Posted: June 21 2008 at 15:49
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The more the merrier. You don't have to listen but I'd rather have music types drawn to my attention than wander in ignorance.
Right now I'm into FFGM which I discovered via this site.
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Posted By: Hawkwise
Date Posted: June 21 2008 at 16:17
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Bit like going to supermarket going to the Produce Dept looking for bananas and finding Chainsaws
------------- 
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Posted By: Dean
Date Posted: June 21 2008 at 16:30
That's a dreadful analogy
 ... going to the Produce Dept looking for bananas and finding tomatoes would be more accurate.
(both are the fruits of herbs, but one is treated as a desert-fruit while the other as a vegetable) ------------- What? |
Posted By: Petrovsk Mizinski
Date Posted: June 21 2008 at 16:31
^Given that once you armed with a chainsaw, you could probably hold up a whole supermarket and walk out with more bananas than you intended, so I fail to see the problem of finding chainsaws. To summarize, that analogy is absolute grandiose failure
And that's a reason why I dig tech/extreme prog so much, is that it doesn't have to go back to retro bands for influences. And when it does, it can come out sounding fresh anyway. -------------
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Posted By: DJPuffyLemon
Date Posted: June 21 2008 at 16:50
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I am tired! of people complaining about music (and metal in particular) not being progressive. Guys, shut up and enjoy the music! |
Posted By: el böthy
Date Posted: June 21 2008 at 18:18
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Didn´t know Dream Theater was Tch/Extreme...
------------- "You want me to play what, Robert?" 
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Posted By: Petrovsk Mizinski
Date Posted: June 21 2008 at 18:44
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^Lol, it isn't!
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Posted By: debrewguy
Date Posted: June 21 2008 at 20:18
That's just what my Dad says ------------- "Here I am talking to some of the smartest people in the world and I didn't even notice,” Lieutenant Columbo, episode The Bye-Bye Sky-High I.Q. Murder Case. |
Posted By: warwick
Date Posted: June 21 2008 at 22:21
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I was raised on Pink Floyd and Genesis. As much as I tried, I can't see how one can like both classical prog and the likes of Opeth and Meshuggah ... I think there are too many bands that don't belong to this site (alas, where are good old days when progarchives was clean of ads and Radiohead?), especially extreme metal! |
Posted By: Statutory-Mike
Date Posted: June 21 2008 at 22:55
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I haven't grown tired of Tech/extreme at all, one of my favorite sub-genres. I've grown tired with all you naysayers! ------------- 
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Posted By: JesusisLord
Date Posted: June 21 2008 at 23:09
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Before I came to this site, my definiiton of prog was limited to Genesis, Yes, ELP etc... Standard Symphonic fare... But Thanks ProgArchives for tuning me on to such an array of fantastic prog genres, including the exciting and energetic genre of Tech/Extreme Prog... Opeth not prog? What a joke.. One guy said you cannot enjoy Classic Symphonic and Opeth etc... HAH.... Sleep to Selling England, Slams Weights to Opeth !!! It's all goood!!!!! ------------- And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord to the glory of God the Father. Phillipians 2:11 |
Posted By: Lex C
Date Posted: June 22 2008 at 00:12
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I was going to first slam this poll, luckily I read through it.
------------- You think we've developed fast that we're civilized and intelligent I'll let you in on a secret...We've developed things the rest is just knowledge passed on. |
Posted By: TheProgtologist
Date Posted: June 22 2008 at 00:44
Some great bands in this sub-genre:
Unexpect
Ansur
Spastic Ink
Behold...the Arctopus
Monogono
Ihsahn
Ansur
Era Vulgaris
Blotted Sience
Control Denied
Edge of Sanity
Coprofago
Frantic Bleep
Lykathea Aflame
Peccatum
Sculptured
Persefone
Textures
Athiest
Dysrhythmia
Beltane
Canvas Solaris
Gojira
Twisted Into Form
Spiral Architect
Thordendal's Special Defects
Quo Vadis
Negura Bunget
To name but a few.Can you please direct me to the thread/threads where all the talk is about these bands that are "choking up the forum"?Because I would really like to participate in some discussion about these great bands.Hardly any of them are ever even reviewed,let alone talk going on about them in the forum.
The only Tech/Extreme bands talked about here are Opeth and Meshuggah,and occasionally Death,Mastodon and Between the Buried and Me.
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Posted By: JayDee
Date Posted: June 22 2008 at 01:11
You forgot Theory in Practice. Ansur is sooo good Jody listed it twice. The ones in bold I haven't hears yet. Thanks for the list and I will surely check them out. -------------
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Posted By: The Crow
Date Posted: June 22 2008 at 04:09
Just being a bit open-minded, I guess... I enjoy hearing Yes's "Close to the Edge" the same as I do with the very hard Meshuggah's "Destroy Erase Improve", or the great Cynic's "Focus". But in the same time, I have goosegumps every time I hear Kitaro's "Silk Road", or some Rachmaninov piano concerts... I listen music, and if I like, I embrace it... And I don't care wich genre it belongs... Death metal, new age, pop, stoner, symphonic, alternative rock, glam, or even prog... If it makes me feel good, It's Ok for me! And sorry, but Prog has changed a lot since the 70's... But some people don't want to see it! |
Posted By: MikeEnRegalia
Date Posted: June 22 2008 at 04:14
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some of us listen to styles/genres ... others listen to music!
------------- https://awesomeprog.com/users/Mike" rel="nofollow">Recently listened to:
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Posted By: Rocktopus
Date Posted: June 22 2008 at 04:56
Try the Suggest New Bands and Artists department. ------------- Over land and under ashes In the sunlight, see - it flashes Find a fly and eat his eye But don't believe in me Don't believe in me Don't believe in me |
Posted By: MikeEnRegalia
Date Posted: June 22 2008 at 05:12
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^ you can solve this problem by suggesting more non-metal additions.
------------- https://awesomeprog.com/users/Mike" rel="nofollow">Recently listened to:
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Posted By: Rocktopus
Date Posted: June 22 2008 at 05:34
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^I'm not here to solve problems. That was just guidance. ------------- Over land and under ashes In the sunlight, see - it flashes Find a fly and eat his eye But don't believe in me Don't believe in me Don't believe in me |
Posted By: MikeEnRegalia
Date Posted: June 22 2008 at 05:36
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^ so there are currently more metal suggestions than non-metal suggestions. Maybe that's simply because the metal-related genres are currently more active? ------------- https://awesomeprog.com/users/Mike" rel="nofollow">Recently listened to:
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Posted By: JayDee
Date Posted: June 22 2008 at 05:42
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Yes, Mike. Or it could also mean that the younger, generally more metal inclined members look for these bands and suggest it to be added.
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Posted By: Visitor13
Date Posted: June 22 2008 at 05:43
Seems like you never tried hard enough... you can start by going out a bit more often |
Posted By: Rocktopus
Date Posted: June 22 2008 at 05:50
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Mike. Progtolist wanted to know where all these extreme metal discussions where at. I just told him. And maybe the reason it because of the large amount of suggested metal that doesn't belong here, suggested by clueless teens. ------------- Over land and under ashes In the sunlight, see - it flashes Find a fly and eat his eye But don't believe in me Don't believe in me Don't believe in me |
Posted By: MikeEnRegalia
Date Posted: June 22 2008 at 06:01
^ Ah ... so it's just another "too much metal" rant. Well, knock yourself out ... I'll grab something to eat.
------------- https://awesomeprog.com/users/Mike" rel="nofollow">Recently listened to:
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Posted By: JayDee
Date Posted: June 22 2008 at 06:10
Some are clueless yes, which also happens in some non prog metal suggestions. It does not mean that if a band is suggested, it is automatically added.We have to note that before a band is added, it is decided upon by more than 4 specialists. Not just one decides. So before you see a band added here, specially in prog metal, it has been thought of by more than one individual, and the rule is a band gets added when they get the majority of the vote. They don't just pick and choose. And usually, for me, when the group decides that the band belongs to the genre/classification, I agree with them. It all depends on how you trust the team that adds them and I trust them. -------------
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Posted By: Rocktopus
Date Posted: June 22 2008 at 06:29
No, it wasn't. I simply pointed out where to find all this metal. Then you wrote why you think there's an overweight in the suggestnewbands department (although I didn't ask for any reason), then I naturally wrote what I think. ------------- Over land and under ashes In the sunlight, see - it flashes Find a fly and eat his eye But don't believe in me Don't believe in me Don't believe in me |
Posted By: Sean Trane
Date Posted: June 22 2008 at 08:12
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Actually if extreme prog is these math rock bands ala Hella or Flying Luttenbergers, I must say that yes, I find that some of them don't belong. Others just as experimental like Throbbing Gristle (not yet included) are also rather difficult to deal with.....
If it means some forms of extreme prog metals, I haven't heard many of them so I've got no real answer.....
But to say that it clutters the site is somewhere I would not venture....
------------- let's just stay above the moral melee prefer the sink to the gutter keep our sand-castle virtues content to be a doer as well as a thinker, prefer lifting our pen rather than un-sheath our sword |
Posted By: stonebeard
Date Posted: June 22 2008 at 19:04
YOU go away to another site. ------------- http://soundcloud.com/drewagler" rel="nofollow - My soundcloud. Please give feedback if you want! |
Posted By: stonebeard
Date Posted: June 22 2008 at 19:12
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List of things I'm tired of related to Prog Archives (in order): 1. Obnoxious Magma fans 2. Progressive vs. Regressive arguments 3. "Oh this obscure band is my favorite!" *two weeks later* "Oh this other obscure band is now my favorite!" people 4. Site n00bs who have their own, stupid, narrow definition of prog 5. People who think anything after ___ date isn't prog 6. People who think Marillion sounds like Genesis 7. Interesting threads dying away while stupid old arguments live on I'm in a pissy mood, so if you're upset, whipe off the sh*t I just threw on you and walk away. And notice, I'm not tired of a genre that belongs on this site. Unless it's Zeuhl. Then I'm really f**king tired of it. ------------- http://soundcloud.com/drewagler" rel="nofollow - My soundcloud. Please give feedback if you want! |
Posted By: The T
Date Posted: June 22 2008 at 19:55
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^^ wisdom... if a little rough
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Posted By: Dean
Date Posted: June 22 2008 at 20:07
I don't think it is anything to do with being open-minded as such - Prog fans are generally open-minded by default, even those who prefer a single genre or era. Being receptive to new music helps obviously, but I don't think that fully explains the difference since I don't think peoples minds change that much - a mind was open enough to listen to Genesis back in 197x was no guarantee that the person would like Can, Hawkwind or Captain Beefheart back then. Therefore I believe that the same mind is just as receptive and open today, but simply doesn't like what it hears in modern music.
I too was raised on Pink Floyd and Genesis (well... the Beatles and the Stones first, then ...) and can like Pink Floyd, Opeth and Radiohead with no difficult at all. This is simple for me because I have continuity between the era's - I never stopped searching for and liking new music.
It's like falling off a horse - if you don't get back on immediately you never will.
------------- What? |
Posted By: el böthy
Date Posted: June 22 2008 at 20:27
I think someone´s got his period ------------- "You want me to play what, Robert?"
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Posted By: stonebeard
Date Posted: June 22 2008 at 20:31
fyi: that doesn't happen to men. ------------- http://soundcloud.com/drewagler" rel="nofollow - My soundcloud. Please give feedback if you want! |
Posted By: Dim
Date Posted: June 22 2008 at 21:03
Wow, this is how I feel about a good percentage of this sites users. Clueless people who just join for Yes, and Genesis, making poll's comparing the two, adn bashing metal cause they cant cant their close minded heads out of the frikken seventies.
No, I'm not tired of tech metal or any metal choking up this site, actually I'd like to see so much more discussion about metal here (except Opeth). I dont know about you, but seventies music actually bores me now compared to prog metal.
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Posted By: Shakespeare
Date Posted: June 22 2008 at 21:46
I've heard talk of this "stuck in the 70s" crap too much. - This is not a personal attack, I am merely using examples. I am speaking in general, and when I say "you" I don't necessarily mean schizoid_man77 - Progressive Rock was a 70s movement. It began in 1969. It ended in 1977. That's it. That's fact. Current or modern bands that are a little out there, or non-commercial, or produce long, or complex songs are now tagged prog. They are not Progressive Rock. They were not in the 70s movement. They aren't even related. Is Wolfmother a 'classic rock' band for being inspired by Zeppelin? Hell no, they're not involved in the drugged up hippie 60s and 70s movement. So when people complain that modern bands don't belong here, they aren't stuck in the seventies, they're just interested in the preservation of musical history. Also, why is being stuck in the seventies a crime? Ian, your top artist on last.fm is currently Ulver, is it not? Tell me, have Ulver released an album this year? No, they haven't. Their most recent release was 2007. In fact, I notice you listen to a lot of albums released in 2007. I accuse you of being stuck in 2007! Come on, Ian, that music is a year old! The same stuff will never be made again, you have to move forward. It's all about the future. I mean, you really shouldn't enjoy that dated stuff, it's so primitive, so unsophisticated. I figure the obvious retort is something like "one year and thirty five are very different, Josh, don't be a child," so I'll save you the trouble. One year ago and thirty five are very different, Josh. A valid argument! If then, one year old music is still infantile, and thus credible as 'new music', then what age defines when young music becomes old? Is there a line? Does twenty years of withering make music invalid? If that's the case, 18 years from now you could still enjoy your Shadows of the Sun, but the second you count down to New Year's...ten...nine...eight...seven...six...five...four...three...two...one...BANG! Well I guess you can throw out that old crap, now. It's twenty years old, God forbid you listen to that ancient stuff when there's new music to listen to instead! The natural reply would be something like "Well obviously there isn't a definite age that defines what is old stuff." Fair enough. I agree with you (provided you agree with me, see?) So now I raise the question again. What's wrong with being stuck in the seventies? If we can't decide on a specific age that music becomes obsolete, then stuck in the seventies merely means stuck in the past. With that in mind, as soon as an album is released it become obsolete. It's all about the future, is it? What's to come is more important than what you have, is it? Clueless people join ProgArchives for Yes and Genesis? Of course they do. That's what Progressive Rock is. This new stuff is something different, with maybe a few comparable elements. So why do you blame them? This is a progressive rock website, man.
Assuming you meant "can't get their closed minded heads", then I have this to say. Music's age means nothing. Accusing someone of being 'stuck in the 70s' is merely accusing them of enjoying primarily - maybe even exclusively - bands from one particular genre. Can I then accuse people of being stuck in the post-rock aisle? |
Posted By: 1800iareyay
Date Posted: June 22 2008 at 22:42
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Um, prog and "classic rock" aren't really comparable. One is a legit genre based on a (loose) criteria based on music, and the other describes popular hard rock bands that are at least 20 years old. The only musical qualification is some form of guitar-driven rock. Saying prog ended in 77 is like saying jazz ended with In a Silent Way in 69. Now, there was a prog rock heyday, but no legitimate genre of music (i.e. one based on the sound of the music being played and not a period of time like classic rock or the British Invasion) is suddenly unable to be played after some perceived expiration date. While I agree that "being stuck in the seventies" is a bit of a silly putdown, it's tiring when people come in and for the umpteenth time say that anything post 73-76 is not prog (and occasionally that it's not even music). That idiocy is choking up the site more than a few Opeth threads. |
Posted By: The T
Date Posted: June 22 2008 at 22:53
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These are the 14 current threads in the prog lounge:
Wait, maybe in the polls section:
Mmm... The only tech/extreme thread is actually THIS one... Let's take a look in fanboys' paradise, the appreciation section:
Not yet... no doubt the problem lies in the "Suggest: section:
Nothing.... So... where's this "choking up the site" by tech/extreme Prog taking place?
If you see a lot of bands added, it's because, thanks to a few factors, the addition process in the metal team has been running pretty smoothly... And I'm pretty sure the rest of the teams have a lot more bands to consider, hence the even more difficult job of evaluating and adding them.... tech/extreme is just a subgenre with a small number of bands relatively speaking... This "choking up the site" idea is pure fiction. -------------
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http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=26187&PN=1 - 1 http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=26187&PN=2 - 2 http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=26187&PN=3 - 3 http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=26187&PN=14 - 14 http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=26187&PN=15 - 15 
http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=49037 - Are you a "progressive" listener? 
http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=49614 - tired of Tech/Extreme Prog choking up the site ? 
http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=49057 - Best Steve Hillage Album 
http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=49643 - Why not Budgie ? ,,, Related Posted By: Yorkie X
Date Posted: June 23 2008 at 01:53
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^^^^ To sell plenty of new papers you first need a good headline ... the validity of the claim means nothing people will still buy the news paper so long as the headline captures their attention ... all this has done is help bring out in the open some of my more personal views about things which a few others seem to agree with there's a saying that "progress comes from confrontation" I believe it does, so its a chance to see things from another perspective and is entirely meant to have a positive outcome .
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Posted By: The T
Date Posted: June 23 2008 at 02:27
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^^ Perfect. The original premise is false. Tech/extreme is not choking up any website. So to create good discussion as you suggest, the thread could have even been called "Is tech/extreme prog?" or something like that. Then you would've had mostly only good answers... (a few "what the hell do you thin you are" would have appeared of course)... but with an incendiary title as "Tired of extreme/tech choking up the site?" you can expect replies of any kind....
Because by saying "you tired of X" you're in a way implying YOU are tired. The thread thus looks more like a way to vent frustration and to encourage others to do so, which only calls for the use of negative energies. Why don't say, just simply, "do you think tech/extreme is prog?". Even though the final answer is given (that genre is here... to stay...) a musical discussion would follow... you ask for positive arguments, positive reactions, positive in the sense that they express something instead of appealing to the probable frustration of others.... The thread is created in a negative way, to fuel negative feelings (not negative as in bad but as in negative, don't add anything, substract. Act out of repulsion, not out of reasoning.
So I'm only answering and providing evidence about your initial post and the title of this thread. If people hate the genre, why should I care? Tastes are tastes.... But, again, the spirit that I feel fueled the creation fo this thread forces me to say tech/extreme is not choking up any site... -------------
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Posted By: debrewguy
Date Posted: June 23 2008 at 10:33
Yes it does. It starts one week before your lovely wife's; ends about a week after, too. ------------- "Here I am talking to some of the smartest people in the world and I didn't even notice,” Lieutenant Columbo, episode The Bye-Bye Sky-High I.Q. Murder Case. |
Posted By: Yorkie X
Date Posted: June 23 2008 at 10:42
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Posted By: Dim
Date Posted: June 23 2008 at 10:50
Wrong.
If you want to know the truth, I'm tired of just the general feel of seventies music. The recording techniques, lack of atmosphere, and non stop praise gets old to me. If you like a bunch of guys chanting some made up language with shrieking girls in the backround, more power to you.
Why I like modern music so much? Cause I feel it's more mature, the recording quality is better, there is more diversity, and technology just allows for so much more to be brought into the music.
You question me for bashing the clueless Yes heads who come into the site, when you and your STC posse were once super trolls who used scream SEARCH FUNCTION! SEARCH FUNCION! SEARCH FUNCTION!, until your private message inbox got too filled up with angry messages from admins saying to stop. You have no right to question me.
Go ahead accuse me of being in the post rock aisle, but I think you should know Black metal, math rock, tech metal, indie alternative, and hey, even avant garde music are huge staples in my musical diet. Can I accuse you of being stuck in the zheul aisle? No, because you're also into jazz rock, symphonic, and you listen to a lot of metal (almost solely to bash per se).
Maybe you're right, maybe I'll be stuck in the 00's, and will be insulted when I'm on some forum thirty years from now, or maybe I'll just move on, and never learn to appreciate any certain time period in music. One thing is certain though, I know how to move to different things. I used to be all about the seventies, now I'm into post rock, give me a year, and I'm almost certain I will be into something completely different.
Go ahead, dont call anything modern progressive, that's not gonna do sh*t, cause you know what? Modern music is on this site, and I find modern music hella lot better than seventies music, and the reason I found this modern music is because of this site. So I guess progarchives has created this monster known as schizoid_man77, who tries to promote post rock, and is tired of seventies music. No remorse.
Take your pitiful arguments somewhere else. -------------
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Posted By: Dean
Date Posted: June 23 2008 at 11:00
good try ...or 1 person visited it 1500 times
...or 15 people visited it 100 times
...or 100 people visited it 15 times
...etc etc etc
all you can say with any certainty is that at least 82 different people definitley visited it at least once. ------------- What? |
Posted By: Dim
Date Posted: June 23 2008 at 11:10
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My last fm top ten most listened bands...
Ulver-Avant garde, electronic, black metal, ambient
Cult of Luna-Post metal, Sludge, experimental, prog metal
Maudlin of the Well-Avant Garde metal, prog metal
Sigur ros-Post rock, experimental(Holy sh*t, first one)
Agalloch-dark metal, doom metal, experimental
Isis-Post metal, sludge, post rock (holy sh*t, second one)
*shels-Post metal, prog rock, acoustic
Kayo Dot-Avante Garde, Avant Garde metal
Pelican-Instrumental metal, sludge, post metal
Talk Talk-Synth pop, experimental, post rock (holy sh*t, third one)
Funny thing about Talk Talk is that they're last album was made in 1991, and their 1988 album is my favorite one. Another thing, this site dosent even recognize this group as a post rock band.
True as my chart goes on, more post rock comes up, a lot more. Also true, My charts have pretty pathetic numbers, and are no credible source of what I listen to. This what I listen to on the computer, and what I listen to on the computer is what I listen to in my car, in my room, and on my MP3.
Basically Josh, you just have a problem with me, so you try and attack me with some lame arguments (thats right I said attack) that only proved my point:
Note a post rock band.
If you wanna get me upset, just listen to a bunch of post rock bands, and write a bunch of 1 star reviews on them, regardless of what you hear (not that you'll listen anyways). I'm sorry if I upset you about the whole STC thing, but talking with a bunch trolls got annoying. Take your personal problems somewhere else. Fail. -------------
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Posted By: Shakespeare
Date Posted: June 23 2008 at 11:43
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Ian, I wasn't accusing you of being stuck in the post-rock aisle. I think you may have read my post wrong. I am not making this a personal debate. And, lest we escalate further, I am not going to counter your "arguments". I'm not even going to restate the argument(s) you apparently misinterpreted because I think I articulated them fine the first time. |
Posted By: Dim
Date Posted: June 23 2008 at 11:59
Ok, I win. -------------
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