The Strawberry Bricks Guide To Progressive Rock
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Topic: The Strawberry Bricks Guide To Progressive Rock
Posted By: philippe
Subject: The Strawberry Bricks Guide To Progressive Rock
Date Posted: April 23 2008 at 15:58
The Strawberry Bricks Guide To Progressive Rock
Charles Snider, 2007
Cover art by Matt Howarth
http://www.progressiverock.com/ - http://www.progressiverock.com/
Progressive rock has been the object of many essays and guides but “The trawberry bricks guide to progressive rock” written by Charles Snider (2007) figures among the top of the list due to a brilliantly documented work. This practical book conciliates descriptive, analytical and critical approches, focusing the subject on the golden era of progressive rock, also reserving a place to the historical roots of this musical scene. Before opening the guide with a representative list of classic (pre) progressive albums published between 1968 and 1979, Charles Snider starts the essay with a prologue appropriate to a discussion around the historical situation / musical context and about specific aesthetic / formal elements that distinguish progressive rock to conventional, standard pop music. The restrospective list and reviews that accompagny the guide cover all the progressive rock musical spectrum (from symphonic prog, jazz rock, art rock to krautrock and electronic prog). This essay is obviously focused on the giants of progressive rock but it also gives an important mention to obscure bands that are now cult (Clearlight, Heldon, Far East Family Band, Birth Control...). Consequently this guide can ravish all fans of prog rock classic period. It contributes to an ecclectic, global comprehension to the developpement of the genre. This is a massive, complex collection but there’s only one negative point I would like to notice: When the author speaks about the emergence of prog rock musical identity I estimate that too many attention is given to low musical pop-ish aspects introduced by the Beatles...I would like to read a more exhaustive chapter about the influences of high musical spheres that don’t belong to rock music, I mean classical music, free-jazz, sixties minimalism, raga meditations and avant garde.
Highly recommended and definitely a good introduction to progressive rock magical / timeless musical world.
Philippe Blache
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Replies:
Posted By: M@X
Date Posted: May 01 2008 at 14:48
I told the author to check this page !!!
Nice comments Phil !
------------- Prog On !
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Posted By: gsolman
Date Posted: July 31 2008 at 23:52
Anyone get this yet?
I need a good prog reference manual and thought this might fit.......
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Posted By: inrainbows
Date Posted: August 06 2008 at 18:53
I did! , it is definitively a very nice and usual guide to prog, but first of all it is organized very well.
Album by album, year by year, full discographies of each Band, details and comparisons. I like to see at once e.g. 1976 releases worth listening!
The clue is author's personal lists for 33 essential prog albums of all time and 33 prog deep cuts, elements of style. A great overview indeed
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Posted By: djfake
Date Posted: September 05 2008 at 20:59
Thanks for all the kudos regarding the book. If anyone would like to comment directly to the author, I'd love to hear from you.
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Posted By: debrewguy
Date Posted: September 05 2008 at 21:42
They have a site, right. I find it quite interesting. Not as massive as PA, but it has its' charms.
------------- "Here I am talking to some of the smartest people in the world and I didn't even notice,” Lieutenant Columbo, episode The Bye-Bye Sky-High I.Q. Murder Case.
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Posted By: djfake
Date Posted: September 06 2008 at 05:04
Yes, I started the website around 2000. It's just one person, btw!
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Posted By: debrewguy
Date Posted: September 07 2008 at 14:09
Excellent website. I don't compare it to PA, because you approach the "subject" from a different perspective, more in a historical sense, like this band fits in here and that group's niche was there etc ... . I haven't been to it in a while, think I'll check it out now.
------------- "Here I am talking to some of the smartest people in the world and I didn't even notice,” Lieutenant Columbo, episode The Bye-Bye Sky-High I.Q. Murder Case.
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Posted By: djfake
Date Posted: September 19 2008 at 06:54
Please do.
Earlier in the year, I changed the timeline to use some more "web 2.0" technology. From all accounts, it's a substantial improvement. Next up (and in just a few weeks) is a change of the backend away from the ASP/Access to using MediaWiki software. Some definite room for growth there!
Also, there are quite a few bands that are _not_ in the timeline, but _are_ in the book: Tony Williams Lifetime, Frank Zappa, Can, Barclay
James Harvest, Rare Bird, Amon Düül II, The New Trolls, Earth &
Fire, Wallenstein, Beggars Opera, Osanna, Balleto di Bronzo, Novalis,
Guru Guru, Embryo, Steeleye Span, Ange, Wigwam, Popol Vuh, Sensations
Fix, David Bedford, Utopia, Finch, The Enid, Nova, Sea Level, Tim
Blake, plus a complete progressive rock discography and more!
------------- Author, "The Strawberry Bricks Guide to Progressive Rock"
www.progressiverock.com
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Posted By: Daniel1974nl
Date Posted: November 24 2008 at 03:48
So which 33 albums are discussed ?
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Posted By: gangstayoda
Date Posted: February 12 2009 at 12:01
Daniel1974nl wrote:
So which 33 albums are discussed ? |
that's what i'm curious about too...
a note to the author though, your site was very elemental in me seeking out more prog bands from the 70s in addition to the obvious ones. and i really like your approach that it's not a 'top ten list' or anything. i asked for the book for my birthday, but if i dont get it, i'll probably just buy it when i get back to the states. excellent work, and i'm looking forward to the wiki-fication of the website coming soon
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Posted By: djfake
Date Posted: February 12 2009 at 16:48
There's almost 300 albums discussed in the book, including those represented in the timeline plus additional albums from Frank Zappa, Can, Barclay James Harvest, Rare Bird,
Amon Düül II, The New Trolls, Earth & Fire, Wallenstein, Beggars
Opera, Osanna, Balleto di Bronzo, Novalis, Guru Guru, Embryo, Steeleye
Span, Ange, Wigwam, Popol Vuh, Sensations Fix, David Bedford, Utopia,
Finch, The Enid, Nova, Sea Level, and Tim Blake.
The "33" that the other poster talked about are my "Thirty-Three Essential Progressive Rock Albums" - my greatest hits, if you will:
1. The Pretty Things - S.F. Sorrow (EMI 1968) 2. Procol Harum - Shine On Brightly (A&M 1968) 3. Soft Machine - Volume Two (Probe 1969) 4. King Crimson - In the Court of the Crimson King (EG 1969) 5. Caravan - In The Land of Grey and Pink (Deram 1971) 6. Atomic Rooster - In Hearing Of (Elektra 1971) 7. Yes - Fragile (Atlantic 1972) 8. Jethro Tull - Thick As A Brick (Chrysalis 1972) 9. Aphrodite’s Child - 666 (Vertigo 1972) 10 Gentle Giant- Three Friends (Columbia 1972) 11. Greenslade (Warner Bros 1973) 12. Gong - Flying Teapot (Virgin 1973) 13. Mike Oldfield - Tubular Bells (Virgin 1973) 14. Le Orme - Felona & Sorona (Charisma 1973) 15. Manfred Mann’s Earth Band - Solar Fire (Warner 1973) 16. Magma - Mekanïk Destrukïw Kommandöh (A&M 1973) 17. Wigwam - Being (Love 1973) 18. Ange - Au-delà du Délire (Philips 1974) 19. Genesis - The Lamb Lies Down On Broadway (Atco 1974) 20. Arti e Mestieri - Tilt (Immagini per un orecchio) (Cramps 1974) 21. Novalis (Brain 1975) 22. Nektar - Down To Earth (Passport 1975) 23. Schicke, Führs & Fröhling - Symphonic Pictures (Brain 1975) 24. Kraan - Let It Out (Spiegelei 1975) 25. Van Der Graaf Generator - Still Life (Charisma 1976) 26. Hoelderlin - Clowns and Clouds (Spiegelei 1976) 27. Nova - Blink (Ariston 1976) 28. Kansas - Leftoverture (Kirshner 1976) 29. Grobschnitt - Rockpommel’s Land (Brain 1977) 30. PFM - Jet Lag (Elektra 1977) 31. Hawkwind - Quark, Strangeness and Charm (Charisma 1977) 32. Tangerine Dream - Cyclone (Virgin 1978) 33. Arthur Brown/Vincent Crane - Faster Than The Speed of Light (IC 1979)
------------- Author, "The Strawberry Bricks Guide to Progressive Rock"
www.progressiverock.com
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Posted By: Daniel1974nl
Date Posted: February 13 2009 at 02:19
Some very interesting stuff........Im really curious to read this..........and good to see that you have also emphasised on some lessetr known works.....even some stuff I never heard and some other stuff I think...that no collection would be complete without it....
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Posted By: djfake
Date Posted: February 13 2009 at 04:59
Here's the "big" lists of
Artists covered: Daevid Allen, Amon Düül II, Jon Anderson, Ange,
Aphrodite’s Child, Area, A.R. & Machines, Ashra, Atomic Rooster,
Kevin Ayers, Il Balletto di Bronzo, Banco Del Mutuo Soccorrso, Barclay
James Harvest, Franco Battiato, The Beatles, David Bedford, Beggars
Opera, Birth Control , Tim Blake, Brand X, Arthur Brown Arthur &
Vincent Crane, Bill Bruford, Camel, Can, Caravan, Clearlight,
Colosseum, Curved Air, Deep Purple, Earth & Fire, Egg, Eloy,
Embryo, Emerson Lake & Palmer, The Enid, Fairport Convention,
Family, Far East Family Band, Faust, Finch, Flash, Focus, Fripp &
Eno, Genesis, Gentle Giant, Giles Giles & Fripp, Gong, Greenslade,
Grobschnitt, Gryphon, Guru Guru, Steve Hackett, Peter Hammill, Bo
Hansson, Happy The Man, Hatfield And The North, Hawkwind, Heldon, Henry
Cow, Steve Hillage, Hoelderlin, Michael Hoenig, Jade Warrior, Jean
Michel Jarre, Jethro Tull, Kansas, Khan, King Crimson, Kingdom Come,
Kraan, Kraftwerk, Led Zeppelin, The Long Hello, Magma, Mahavishnu
Orchestra, Manfred Mann’s Earth Band, Matching Mole, McDonald and
Giles, Pierre Moerlen’s Gong, The Moody Blues, National Health, Nektar,
The New Trolls, The Nice, Nova, Novalis, Mike Oldfield, Le Orme,
Osanna, Passport, Anthony Phillips, Pink Floyd, Popol Vuh, Premiata
Forneria Marconi (PFM), The Pretty Things, Procol Harum, Quatermass,
Quiet Sun, Rare Bird, Renaissance, Rush, Schicke Führs & Fröhling,
Sea Level, Sebastian Hardie, Sensations’ Fix, Pete Sinfield, Soft
Machine, Chris Squire, Starcastle, Steeleye Span, Strawbs, Supertramp,
Synergy, Tangerine Dream , Tempest, Tomorrow, Traffic, Triumvirat,
U.K., Uriah Heep, Utopia, Van Der Graaf Generator, Vangelis, Wakeman
Rick, Wallenstein, The Who, Wigwam, Darryl Way’s Wolf, Robert Wyatt,
Stomu, Yes and Frank Zappa.
Genres covered: Rock-n-Roll, Rock, Progressive, Psychedelia, Fusion,
Krautrock, Art rock, Folk, Electronic, Prog, New Age
------------- Author, "The Strawberry Bricks Guide to Progressive Rock"
www.progressiverock.com
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Posted By: AtomicCrimsonRush
Date Posted: February 24 2009 at 22:19
Terrific lists! I must get this ASAP
how how how?
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Posted By: djfake
Date Posted: February 25 2009 at 05:55
http://www.progressiverock.com/
------------- Author, "The Strawberry Bricks Guide to Progressive Rock"
www.progressiverock.com
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Posted By: ModernRocker79
Date Posted: February 25 2009 at 10:42
I have read "The Strawberry Bricks Guide to Progressive Rock" and contrast to Philippe opinion in which he is way off base it's the Beatles who should deserve a major credit for starting Progressive Rock. Sgt Pepper is the first album on The Strawberry Bricks Guide to Progressive Rock timeline.
George Harrison introduced the raga and sitar, while John Lennon offered up odd time signatures. George Martin performed what might be the first organ solo (technically harmonium) in a rock context, on the Beatles’ “The Word”. Here’s the point: Although short lived as a movement, psychedelia gave the artist carte blanche to experiment and expand the boundaries of their music. Rubber Soul quickly gave way to the exciting Revolver that culminated in the psychedelic classic “Tomorrow Never Knows”
Art Rock – The broadest of categories, this refers to direct descendants of the Beatles’ Sgt. Pepper’s Lonely Hearts Club Band. I’d like to think of this as “sophisticated rock music” and use it to capture those bands that definitely avoid that which would make it prog rock, but are certainly of the era.
Back to Philippe comments. The Beatles were the first rock band to use the studio as an instrument in its use of Psychedelic rock in electronic/ backward tape effects and the applying the classical form of Hindustani music. How many rock bands were using 5/4, 3/4 and 4/4 or 5/4/, and 5/8 time signatures in the same course of one song before Sgt Pepper? How many bands were using modes like the Dorian Mode or Lydian Mode? "A Day in the Life" broke new ground by using an avant style type of orchestration and combining 2 completely different tunes in different keys, sung by 2 different singers and played at 2 different tempos...what an amazing step toward a larger scope of composition. "A Day in the Life" and "Within You Without You" is in my mind with no doubt are Progressive Rock status.
Then George Harrison played the sitar, tamboura, swarmandal, and recording the guitar backwards. Jeff Beck and Roger McGuinn were not playing Indian instruments and George was the first rock guitarist to play these instruments.
I know not everything the Beatles did can be classed Proto-Prog and they were also others who contributed but Philippe comments are simply wrong. The Beatles explored classical music, sixties minimalism, raga meditations and avant garde all in 1966. All genres have a starting point and yes others expanded this by late 1967 but there is no "Tomorrow Never Knows" or "Love You To" being produced at this time and I would not call these songs low pop quality song. “Strawberry Fields Forever” upped the ante for pop music and producers were destroying studio’s to keep pace with the Beatles.
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Posted By: moshkito
Date Posted: March 20 2009 at 11:22
ModernRocker79 wrote:
I have read "The Strawberry Bricks Guide to Progressive Rock" and contrast to Philippe opinion in which he is way off base it's the Beatles who should deserve a major credit for starting Progressive Rock. Sgt Pepper is the first album on The Strawberry Bricks Guide to Progressive Rock timeline. |
I disagree.
The Beatles merely did what was already out there ... in essence they were bored with pop music and they let us all know ... and they decided to do something different.
That was that ... did it have progressive elements to it?
I actually think ... NO ... you can see and check out Let It Be (if that jerk ever allows the movie to be released!) ... to realize that there was no musical "progressiveness" here ... there was just the friction and communication between 4 people and another person or two in the mix ... like Billy Preston and Yoko ... etc, etc ...
But the Beatles helped where they could ... even having and quoting someone like Frank Zappa ... did more to expand the tastes and variety of music than anything else ... all in all the Beatles were pop music and they could not break out of those constraints within the form they had and were in.
The addition of sitar and other "foreign" and different instruments is not big deal ... music in Europe is the biggest mix bag you ever heard in your life ... turn on the radio, flip the dial ... hear 10 different nations ... you don't get that in America with its top ten only ... and the difference influences what you do ... so when you hear an Operatic singer using a rock band and singing like an aria ... it is not "progressive" ... it is a logical extension of the musical elements into the new day ... adding a Fender guitar to Albinoni or Vivaldi is our way of saying ... this is the 20th century violin ... nothing more ... there is nothing progressive in that ... it's just natual growth.
But what is never discussed, and deserves far more attention to its work, is the very experimental scene in the arts in London and Paris and Munich ... which sprouted a lot of artists and film makers and actors and also some musicians ... although for some reason most of the rock musicians did not have the discipline to get theatrical unless your name was Bryan Ferry and David Bowie and you wanted to do Jacques Brel of Kurt Weill .... two names that should be considered extremelly progressive ... and no one ever has the balls to say it and even connect how they affect rock music and its stylings of vocal characterizations ... it's no longer "acting" ... it's "living" ... and there is a difference.
To break it down in an academic sense calling this scale this or that ... has got to be the most over rated discussion in my book ... like a Dorian crap was not used 1000 years ago ... it was ... with a different instrument ... and we don't ahve a recording of it ... so what? The scale has absolutely nothing to do with the person that played or sung it ... it's what they felt ... and sometimes there are "not enough notes" ... or "too many notes" ... go see Salieri in that movie if you don't believe me!
Progress ... in the sense of "change" and showing us something new and different ... that is progressive ... but if all we get is the same thing with just a different scale on the same musical staff ... and we call it "progressive" ... such bollocks!
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Posted By: moshkito
Date Posted: March 20 2009 at 12:12
djfake wrote:
The "33" that the other poster talked about are my "Thirty-Three Essential Progressive Rock Albums" - my greatest hits, if you will: |
2. Procol Harum - Shine On Brightly (A&M 1968)
So ... it's gift to progressive was a Hammond Organ in a blues key?
3. Soft Machine - Volume Two (Probe 1969) Definitly ... and what it really brought us was the opening up of that "jazz" field into something fun and entertaining ... and the rest of the Canterbury folks had the humor and fun and great music as well.
4. King Crimson - In the Court of the Crimson King (EG 1969)
I accept this one.
7. Yes - Fragile (Atlantic 1972) I think Fragile established the band. Close to the Edge sealed it.
8. Jethro Tull - Thick As A Brick (Chrysalis 1972) More important and not appreciated, and JT's most progressive album is the one that most JT fans can not stand ... "A Passion Play" is fabulous and I for one would like to stage it in its entirety.
9. Aphrodite’s Child - 666 (Vertigo 1972) I often think that this is one of the most important of the albums never heard. It had in it many things that ... no one did at the time ... and on top of it ... it had an orgasm ... even the Beatles didn't have that!
10 Gentle Giant- Three Friends (Columbia 1972) No disagreement here.
12. Gong - Flying Teapot (Virgin 1973) I would mark this as the Flying Teapot Trilogy.
13. Mike Oldfield - Tubular Bells (Virgin 1973) Yes. However, this was not really progressive ... unless you consider the musical progressions and scales! That ought to wake up some academics! Hergest Ridge and Ommadawn were far more experimental and creative.
14. Le Orme - Felona & Sorona (Charisma 1973) I would not think of this as progressive. I do think of Le Orme as some very nice and enjoyable music ...
15. Manfred Mann’s Earth Band - Solar Fire (Warner 1973) I love this album ... but Glorified Magnified is actually much more important. This is however a very nicely done album and actually shows (again) Manfred's love of classical music ... itself not really progressive ...
16. Magma - Mekanïk Destrukïw Kommandöh (A&M 1973) Without a doubt the most unbelievable musical creation of the day ... the most unusual ... and to get a chance to see these in concert ... you will have tears in your eyes in the end like so many of us had in SF in 1999!
18. Ange - Au-delà du Délire (Philips 1974) One of the best rock albums ever done. And beautifully sung too.
19. Genesis - The Lamb Lies Down On Broadway (Atco 1974) Excellent choice.
22. Nektar - Down To Earth (Passport 1975) Recycled is the progressive album ... and totally off the wall with Larry Fast all over ... sadly , the strength and power needed to survive this album was never to be seen on a stage and I'm sure that by that time Roye was already burn't out. Down to Earth is really a come down compared to this album prior. And Recycled is one of the most progressive and insane rock albums ever done ... I do wish they had not trimmed down Marvellous Moses from their concert rendition that was harder and more rock oriented than it was pop'y.
25. Van Der Graaf Generator - Still Life (Charisma 1976) I really think that VGG could be here ... it's hard to bypass H to He and such ... but even more important and demonstrative in unbelievable ways is "The Silent Corner and Empty Stage" is much more important ... and off the wall ...
28. Kansas - Leftoverture (Kirshner 1976) Needs to be dumped. This is a popular album/song. Over rated. Still nice, mind you ... just very nice ... but there is nothing progressive in here.
30. PFM - Jet Lag (Elektra 1977) Weird that this is listed and their much superior Photos of Ghosts and The World Became the World are not. PFM is more classically minded than they are progressive, btw. And this album shows the new lead singer from Acqua Fragile ... and when this band dropped their excellent vocals for one singer, and destroyed a very nice small band with 2 extremelly nice albums.
31. Hawkwind - Quark, Strangeness and Charm (Charisma 1977)
Hawkwind, could, and probably should ... be mentioned as progressive .. if anything their music changed ... and it still had punch and kick and it could still rock and then some. Of more importance than this album is the fact that Michael Moorcock was involved in their early days and helped formulate a thing or two, that Hawkwind took with them and still have and use. Space Ritual is this band. But it is really hard to dismiss Electric Tepee and It is the Business ... as those two albums are unbelievably fine ... and excellent rock assaults albeit so heavy that they are weightless ...
32. Tangerine Dream - Cyclone (Virgin 1978) No. The one that needs to be here is ATEM and then PHAEDRA. Those two blew out the electronic harshness that was around in those days.
Not mentioned ... but should be here ...
Amon Duul 2 - Wolf City.
Quite simply one of the best rock albums ever done from beginning to end.
Klaus Schulze -
Black Dance era - This really took electronics into a stage that most people could not understand or see. It really was not "classical music for the masses" ... as in top ten beethoven ... and as such is way more progressive and experimental.
Egberto Gismonti - No Caipira
... meet Villa lobos STravinsky Bossa Nova accoustic guitar and the most fascinating mix you ever heard. So much so that people in this board are actually afraid to listen to it ... progressive is just another word after you hear this.
Terje Rypdal/David Darling - Eos
I remember dad and mom being proud of seeing Casals, Stern, Segovia ... and so many other classical dignitaries. This album is what you and I should/could be listening to when we are the same age and appreciating "classical music" ... this is ... the VERY BEST chamber music concert you will ever hear in your life ... and it is an electric Fender and a bass ... and if you thought Jimi was good ... shame on you ... people like Terje do Jimi more credit and beauty than you and I could possibly imagine. And Darling also "made" a couple of Carlos Nakai albums sound good ... the rest are not as good.
Roy Harper
Talk about progressive ... this guy is the most out there poet in music ... and so progressive that few can stand with him in a room ... he's way too intelligent for us I imagine .. check out his web site ... and this guy plays a guitar and sings ... WOW ...
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Posted By: djfake
Date Posted: March 20 2009 at 18:20
moshkito wrote:
But what is never discussed, and deserves far more attention to its work, is the very experimental scene in the arts in London and Paris and Munich ... which sprouted a lot of artists and film makers and actors and also some musicians ... although for some reason most of the rock musicians did not have the discipline to get theatrical unless your name was Bryan Ferry and David Bowie and you wanted to do Jacques Brel of Kurt Weill .... two names that should be considered extremelly progressive ... and no one ever has the balls to say it and even connect how they affect rock music and its stylings of vocal characterizations ... it's no longer "acting" ... it's "living" ... and there is a difference.
Progress ... in the sense of "change" and showing us something new and different ... that is progressive ... but if all we get is the same thing with just a different scale on the same musical staff ... and we call it "progressive" ... such bollocks! |
Moshkito - There is a difference between the art rock of Bryan Ferry and David Bowie, and the progressive rock of Yes or Genesis; neither Bowie or Ferry are in the book. It's not to say that the "experimental scene in the arts" isn't/wasn't important, especially during that era. It's just that that wasn't part of this particular story.
At any rate, the book is about the albums; I can't stress that enough.
------------- Author, "The Strawberry Bricks Guide to Progressive Rock"
www.progressiverock.com
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Posted By: djfake
Date Posted: March 20 2009 at 18:21
moshkito wrote:
djfake wrote:
The "33" that the other poster talked about are my "Thirty-Three Essential Progressive Rock Albums" - my greatest hits, if you will: |
2. Procol Harum - Shine On Brightly (A&M 1968)
So ... it's gift to progressive was a Hammond Organ in a blues key?
|
Please give this another listen. It's much more than "a Hammond Organ in a blues key".
------------- Author, "The Strawberry Bricks Guide to Progressive Rock"
www.progressiverock.com
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Posted By: Rank1
Date Posted: March 21 2009 at 08:38
moshkito wrote:
ModernRocker79 wrote:
I have read "The Strawberry Bricks Guide to Progressive Rock" and contrast to Philippe opinion in which he is way off base it's the Beatles who should deserve a major credit for starting Progressive Rock. Sgt Pepper is the first album on The Strawberry Bricks Guide to Progressive Rock timeline. |
I disagree.
The Beatles merely did what was already out there ... in essence they were bored with pop music and they let us all know ... and they decided to do something different.
That was that ... did it have progressive elements to it?
I actually think ... NO ... you can see and check out Let It Be (if that jerk ever allows the movie to be released!) ... to realize that there was no musical "progressiveness" here ... there was just the friction and communication between 4 people and another person or two in the mix ... like Billy Preston and Yoko ... etc, etc ...
But the Beatles helped where they could ... even having and quoting someone like Frank Zappa ... did more to expand the tastes and variety of music than anything else ... all in all the Beatles were pop music and they could not break out of those constraints within the form they had and were in.
The addition of sitar and other "foreign" and different instruments is not big deal ... music in Europe is the biggest mix bag you ever heard in your life ... turn on the radio, flip the dial ... hear 10 different nations ... you don't get that in America with its top ten only ... and the difference influences what you do ... so when you hear an Operatic singer using a rock band and singing like an aria ... it is not "progressive" ... it is a logical extension of the musical elements into the new day ... adding a Fender guitar to Albinoni or Vivaldi is our way of saying ... this is the 20th century violin ... nothing more ... there is nothing progressive in that ... it's just natual growth.
But what is never discussed, and deserves far more attention to its work, is the very experimental scene in the arts in London and Paris and Munich ... which sprouted a lot of artists and film makers and actors and also some musicians ... although for some reason most of the rock musicians did not have the discipline to get theatrical unless your name was Bryan Ferry and David Bowie and you wanted to do Jacques Brel of Kurt Weill .... two names that should be considered extremelly progressive ... and no one ever has the balls to say it and even connect how they affect rock music and its stylings of vocal characterizations ... it's no longer "acting" ... it's "living" ... and there is a difference.
To break it down in an academic sense calling this scale this or that ... has got to be the most over rated discussion in my book ... like a Dorian crap was not used 1000 years ago ... it was ... with a different instrument ... and we don't ahve a recording of it ... so what? The scale has absolutely nothing to do with the person that played or sung it ... it's what they felt ... and sometimes there are "not enough notes" ... or "too many notes" ... go see Salieri in that movie if you don't believe me!
Progress ... in the sense of "change" and showing us something new and different ... that is progressive ... but if all we get is the same thing with just a different scale on the same musical staff ... and we call it "progressive" ... such bollocks! |
Well I have to disagree with you respectfully.
I feel the Beatles were certainly progressive when especially George Harrison was working at a sophisticated level of extrapolating Indian scales to the Western setting, something no one else had done in rock music as compared to efforts like the Byrds or the Yardbirds. "Love You To", which is certainly derived from classical Indian, "Within You Without You", "The Inner Light", and even "Norwegian Wood" follows the raga khamaj avarohana is an unaltered raga were in the Indo/Prog category.
One more song " Blue Jay Way,” was conceived on the harmonium but is more significant in that it reveals the depth of Harrison’s understanding of Indian music, as well as his ability to express it in a pop context. The opening sequence of notes imposes part of the scale from an Indian raga called “Marwa” onto a basic C-major chord. He uses notes that are dissonant in the C-major setting (E-flat and F-sharp), pivoting them around a C-diminished chord. It certainly was not rock ‘n’ roll, and the quality of his work was now to be found in the details-not in the immediate impact. Perhaps this is why this example of Harrison radically pushing the songwriting envelope is rarely discussed in such terms.
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Posted By: progvortex
Date Posted: April 08 2009 at 23:47
This book is sitting on my desk right now! Awesome guide, I bring it everywhere I go.
------------- Life is like a beanstalk... isn't it?
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Posted By: kenic
Date Posted: December 03 2009 at 03:33
Progressive rock has been the object of many essays and guides but “The trawberry bricks guide to progressive rock” written by Charles Snider (2007) figures among the top of the list due to a brilliantly documented work. This practical book conciliates descriptive, analytical and critical approches, focusing the subject on the golden era of progressive rock, also reserving a place to the historical roots of this musical scene. Before http://www.etrade88888.com%20 - opening the guide with a representative list of classic (pre) progressive albums published between 1968 and 1979, Charles Snider starts the essay with a prologue appropriate to a discussion around the historical situation / musical context and about specific aesthetic / formal elements that distinguish progressive rock to conventional, standard pop music. The restrospective list and reviews that accompagny the guide cover all the progressive rock musical spectrum (from symphonic prog, jazz rock, art rock to krautrock and electronic prog). This essay is obviously focused on the giants of progressive rock but it also gives an important mention to obscure bands that are now cult (Clearlight, Heldon, Far East Family Band, Birth Control...). Consequently this guide can ravish all fans of prog rock classic period. It contributes to an ecclectic, global comprehension to the developpement of the genre. This is a massive, complex collection but there’s only one negative point I would like to notice: When the author speaks about the emergence of prog rock musical identity I estimate that too many attention is given to low musical pop-ish aspects introduced by the Beatles...I would like to read a more exhaustive chapter about the influences of high musical spheres that don’t belong to rock music, I mean classical music, free-jazz, sixties minimalism, raga meditations and avant garde.
Highly recommended and definitely a good introduction to progressive rock magical / timeless musical world.
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Posted By: djfake
Date Posted: February 11 2010 at 15:37
Not sure if this got a mention here, but I was on NPR as a guest on Sound Opinions. You can here us talk about progressive rock here:
http://www.soundopinions.org/shownotes/2009/111309/shownotes.html - Sound Opinions
http://www.soundopinions.org/shownotes/2009/111309/shownotes.html
thanks for all the good words!
------------- Author, "The Strawberry Bricks Guide to Progressive Rock"
www.progressiverock.com
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Posted By: djfake
Date Posted: February 11 2010 at 19:35
Thanks Paul!
------------- Author, "The Strawberry Bricks Guide to Progressive Rock"
www.progressiverock.com
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Posted By: fuxi
Date Posted: March 09 2010 at 02:35
I haven't bought the book, but I'm impressed with your selection of artists and albums, which is in the best possible taste. It includes virtually everything I would have wanted to include myself, PLUS a good deal of music I've never heard, though it sounds very intriguing. Judging from the excerpts that can be read on Google Books, the reviews are brief but informative and really likable. Probably the best possible "prog rock primer" now available!
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Posted By: Evolutionary Sleeper
Date Posted: March 09 2010 at 15:03
fuxi wrote:
I haven't bought the book, but I'm impressed with your selection of artists and albums, which is in the best possible taste. It includes virtually everything I would have wanted to include myself, PLUS a good deal of music I've never heard, though it sounds very intriguing. Judging from the excerpts that can be read on Google Books, the reviews are brief but informative and really likable. Probably the best possible "prog rock primer" now available! |
I use it mainly as a reference book, not really something to read from cover to cover. Good book though.
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Posted By: AtomicCrimsonRush
Date Posted: July 21 2010 at 06:38
The Strawberry Bricks website was one of the first to get me deeper into prog - before i discovered this site that is :)
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Posted By: moshkito
Date Posted: September 07 2010 at 20:25
...
Then George Harrison played the sitar, tamboura, swarmandal, and recording the guitar backwards. Jeff Beck and Roger McGuinn were not playing Indian instruments and George was the first rock guitarist to play these instruments. |
This is probably not true, either. India was not born yesterday and they have had rock bands doing their music right with/after the Beatles, and I would say, that it is very likely that this mix was out there before. Are you suggesting that India was a third world country that had no electric guitars? Or drums?
What should be said, is that our ears had not heard those mixtures yet .... but to think that no musician had ever tried or done it before is ... not complete. There were a lot of classical musicians that did a lot of work with Eastern musicians and Isaac Stern and Yehudi Menuin just about made their names with it. And Yehudi is responsible for bringing Ravi Shankar to the West, not The Beatles as far as I can remember and tell. I had already heard Ravi Shankar way before Sgt Peppers had come out!
The issue here is publicity and media ... one did not hear, or understand, as much music as we can today ... so the east/west mix was really big in the 60's ... but today is not important, even in the context of the development of "progressive music". And the simplistic attitude that it is discussed with is not a good ingredient for helping the book be more widely accepted and understood. Specially when it's history is ignoring some advances in America like FM radio, which almost single handedly put "progressive music" in the map, until 5 years later it became just another AM radio station playing top hits ... or worse ... classics!
I don't dislike the book. I find it incomplete and lacking and way too generalized ... and I don't think that we can make things better unless PA gets it on ... we have the best here ... and you don't have to rely on books that ... do not measure up? But we consider it better simply because it was published and we don't credit this board at all ... and the book is also toally clueless about any other art that is related to the music, be it directly or indirectly ... and as such they take away the "soul" of a lot of music. To me, and many others, "Epitath" is not a progressive music anthem ... it is one of the most important anti-war statements ever put together ... with the exception that you don't know what a war is and what it entails and it is simpler to call it "progressive" and forget the rest? Sorry ... not all of us are members of the ignorance is bliss department of music knowledge, and specially this board, where the knowledge is outtasight!
I just think that it's time that PA take a step forward and become THE book on the subject! And we even incorporate the interviews, which so many of these books don't.
Btw, there are two of those books out there that have my pictures of Gong showing and I am not given the credit for it ... shouldn't that give you an idea of how generic and reckless and thoughless something like that is?
We just need to convince Dean and a couple of other people here ... we need to become the ultimate progressive bible and information place ... not some second rate book!
------------- Music is not just for listening ... it is for LIVING ... you got to feel it to know what's it about! Not being told! www.pedrosena.com
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Posted By: moshkito
Date Posted: September 07 2010 at 20:34
Rank1 wrote:
One more song " Blue Jay Way,” was conceived on the harmonium but is more significant in that it reveals the depth of Harrison’s understanding of Indian music, as well as his ability to express it in a pop context. The opening sequence of notes imposes part of the scale from an Indian raga called “Marwa” onto a basic C-major chord. He uses notes that are dissonant in the C-major setting (E-flat and F-sharp), pivoting them around a C-diminished chord. It certainly was not rock ‘n’ roll, and the quality of his work was now to be found in the details-not in the immediate impact. Perhaps this is why this example of Harrison radically pushing the songwriting envelope is rarely discussed in such terms.
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I still do not agree. And George at the time was quite experimental and the likelihood is that this is what he heard that later was called this or that on a regular music scale so we have a name for it. He also was a very typical western man with the sitar in hand and did not master it, which kinda tells you that he could do a few things but nothing else, and if he was getting confused with the count and scales, which are not 4/4 inclined like most of the music he played and was familiar with ... otherwise he would have played a lot more eastern music in his own work, which he did NOT. He also experimented with electronics heavily ... and you might check out "Lectronic Sound". It really tells you more about "George" than it does his music ... !
You don't go into meditational music, or a sitar, by studying scales when the instrument and specially the "ragas" are designed to bring out the music and feeling inside the person. And that music might, or might not, have the feeling or idea that you -- YOU -- thought of. I think the question for George was ... what can we add and double up with this piece here to make is "musical" for our audience, and in that sense ... yes, the Beatles are very good and quite progressive. But the nature of the composition itself is not progressive at all.
The point was that "pop music" was not known as being intelligent, well defined and composed and on top of beautifully done, and The Beatles broke that mold really good ... pop musicians can do this too! ... has to do with the music, not the style was their point ... I accept that. And I think that is something that a lot of "progressive" minded folks are afraid of. Not being accepted. And the best way to discuss this music is to show it's valid progression in "time" and "place" to help validate its existence. The comment about mixing music and scales is esoteric to say the least since not many of us in the western world are versed in eastern musical concepts and idioms and conversely similar to the other folks from the eastern countries. And both can mix, just like anything can mix, and in the late 60's and early 70's the experimental thing was ... "anything is music" ... and "sound is music" ... otherwise things like Faust and many other experimental bands come off like a bunch of kids playing with toys ... well, to be fair, who's to say that music can not come out of that?
------------- Music is not just for listening ... it is for LIVING ... you got to feel it to know what's it about! Not being told! www.pedrosena.com
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Posted By: AtomicCrimsonRush
Date Posted: October 06 2010 at 07:43
The Strawberry bricks guide online is a wonderful website. Well done to all involved! I used it as a checklist of what to get next as far as albums go.
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Posted By: Vibrationbaby
Date Posted: March 04 2011 at 15:38
They actually have this book in my local public library!
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Posted By: djfake
Date Posted: June 07 2011 at 09:37
BRAND NEW WEBSITE:
the new progressiverock.com website is here: http://www.progressiverock.com" rel="nofollow - URL=http://www.progressiverock.com
------------- Author, "The Strawberry Bricks Guide to Progressive Rock"
www.progressiverock.com
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Posted By: Vibrationbaby
Date Posted: June 07 2011 at 14:02
But the definitive work on progrock has to be this one
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Posted By: Dick Heath
Date Posted: June 29 2011 at 11:48
Based on the recommendations here, I've purchased this book. Certainly support many of the positive comments made above. Indeed it is a book to dip into from time to time, since it doesn't seem a book to read from cover to cover, that is once the introduction including time lines (nothing much if anything to argue there, in fact I would want to add a few minor contributing factors) and end pieces have been studied. One niggle: proof-reading should be better - as an academic you develop a deep suspicion that if in theses and other documents of fact, there are errors in one part you wonder how error free are other parts of the work? So couple of obvious ones: (Pete) Townshend NOT Townsend, Allan Holdsworth NOT Alan Holdsworth (but then both spellings are given) - however, another N.American published and heavily recommended book on prog is at least 100xs worse for typo errors. (In comparison one book I knew that was thoroughly proof-read by 4 people to eliminate both factual errors and typographicals, only has one error in the published version - ironically found in acknowledgments to the proof-readers!!!). It's probably me but yet again Touch is not included - is this an American thing to avoid early home-grown talent?
------------- The best eclectic music on the Web,8-11pm BST/GMT THURS.
CLICK ON: http://www.lborosu.org.uk/media/lcr/live.php - http://www.lborosu.org.uk/media/lcr/live.php
Host by PA's Dick Heath.
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Posted By: djfake
Date Posted: June 29 2011 at 12:53
Hi Dick, thank you for yoru comments. Proof reading is indeed one aspect of the book I wish I could have improved on; it is also one of the disadvantages of self-publishing, and unfortunately Microsoft Word. However, I hope these are but minor niggles. Please email mail me off-list, I would much appreciate your feedback.
As for Touch, I would say it is *my* think to avoid early home-grown talent ;)
------------- Author, "The Strawberry Bricks Guide to Progressive Rock"
www.progressiverock.com
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Posted By: djfake
Date Posted: April 24 2017 at 18:26
Please note that the second edition of the book, The Strawberry Bricks Guide to Progressive Rock, Revised and Expanded Edition (2017) has been released.
The Strawberry Bricks Guide to Progressive Rock is the definitive record guide to the classic progressive era of rock music. Beginning in 1967 and continuing until 1982, the book presents the progressive rock canon, set in the presentation of a timeline. This new edition extends the timeline into the early 80s, to offer a more natural conclusion to the progressive era, as well as offering a broader selection of albums from the era.
Secondly, beginning with a database of the birth years of musicians in the timeline, the book offers that what we now know as “progressive rock” is in fact the music of a generation. The statistics play out: the median birth year for the “progressive artist” is 1947, with a standard deviation of +/- 3 years. I’ve also conducted many interviews with artists from the era, and 16 of these appear in the book. The premise was to study their early lives, from birth through the late 60s and very early 70s, to find the commonalities that these men experienced. The newly written Prologue offers a historical perspective of the pretext to the progressive era, beginning post-WWII, while the Epilogue offers a current perspective on progressive rock since the early 80s.
I’ve also spent a good deal of time fact-checking every detail in the book, including song titles and artist names. Further, this edition has been professionally edited and peer reviewed, all to make this as exacting and rewarding a book as the music it covers. Strawberry Bricks is another narrative on the classic era of progressive rock, one with hopefully a novel and candid outlook on the genre, its albums and the men that made it one of the most interesting chapters in rock’s history.
Reviews of 476 albums from 1967 - 1982 Exclusive interviews with 16 artists from the progressive era Fully edited, proofread and fact-checked 632 pages
------------- Author, "The Strawberry Bricks Guide to Progressive Rock"
www.progressiverock.com
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Posted By: Kepler62
Date Posted: April 25 2017 at 03:14
Progrock, art rock or whatever the freak you want to call it is the only genre where the people who listen to it argue over what it is, where it started, how it started, why it started, etc. Do Celine Dion fans have this same problem?
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Posted By: Kepler62
Date Posted: April 25 2017 at 06:56
I checked out the website and must admit it is rather impressive. Found a few minor errors but that is to be expected with such a colossal task Definitely would pick up the book if I saw it in the store. I'm just wondering why only 1972 is covered in the timeline and only 1967 in the albums heading. Is the website still under construction?
One thing that I absolutely loved was the cover concept. Thank God no dragons, elves or sky wizards or Roger Dean copycat artwork.
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Posted By: djfake
Date Posted: June 30 2017 at 08:09
The cover photo was taken with a Scanning Electron Microscope, it's the record grooves of Jethro Tull's Minstrel In The Gallery vinyl!
------------- Author, "The Strawberry Bricks Guide to Progressive Rock"
www.progressiverock.com
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Posted By: djfake
Date Posted: August 15 2017 at 18:58
Here's a few encapsulations from very recent reviews of The Strawberry Bricks Guide to Progressive Rock, Revised and Expanded Edition (2017):
“In this updated edition of his 2007 book, an idea of the kind of depth Charles Snider goes into can be gleaned from the revised artwork, an electron-microscope image of the grooves of Minstrel In The Gallery. It’s a heck of a project, and his dedication and breadth of choice is to be applauded. Snider’s summaries are intensely fact-packed but academic – this is still an enthusiast’s mothership.” --Jo Kendall, Prog Magazine
“[H]is time-centric genre definition cite[s] supportive data from various sources and suggest[s] that progressive rock is/was music created by a generation of men born roughly between 1944 and 1950 (median birth year 1947): Fascinating, and persuasively explained in the context of his premise. Where “guide” books of this ilk sink or swim lies in how convincingly the author makes his/her case for inherently subjective viewpoints and conclusions. Snider deserves credit for tackling this head-on. The Strawberry Bricks Guide to Progressive Rock is an informative, enlightening read that’ll keep you occupied for hours and certainly get you thinking. Snider supports his [opinions] with considerable research/study. This book offers valuable perspective on where “prog” came from historically, in one handy (hefty) volume.” --John Collinge, Progression Magazine
“I don't often use the word massive, but this book is, in fact, massive. At over 600 pages, The Strawberry Bricks Guide to Progressive Rock is a sort of bedside reader for prog fans of all stripes. Author Charles Snider taps his deep knowledge of the genre for a fascinating read. It's a strong piece of work. Snider makes his points well and writes in a smooth conversational style. We don't share the same views on every release, but who does? The Strawberry Bricks Guide to Progressive Rock is very honestly the most enjoyable book on progressive music I've read to date! I must now seek out several albums I never even knew existed before I read this book!” --John Wilcox, Progsheet
------------- Author, "The Strawberry Bricks Guide to Progressive Rock"
www.progressiverock.com
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Posted By: AFlowerKingCrimson
Date Posted: August 16 2017 at 09:02
I would say that not just men born between 1944 and 1950 created it or listened to it especially not these days. That's pretty absurd if you ask me. Maybe for a while that was the case but certainly not now. Plus some of them like Steve Hackett and the guys from Rush were all born a little later anyway.
I know about your book. The thing is I know most of what's in it so it would be of no real value to me. If I see it in the library I'll check it out though. Or if you ever do a version of more recent prog. Anyway, good luck with it though.
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Posted By: djfake
Date Posted: August 16 2017 at 15:11
Is it also absurd that you would dismiss an entire book on the basis of one sentence in a review, even when the reviewer (who read the book) found it "Fascinating, and persuasively explained in the context of his premise."
Here is no substitute for heavy lifting, my friend!
------------- Author, "The Strawberry Bricks Guide to Progressive Rock"
www.progressiverock.com
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Posted By: Disconnect
Date Posted: August 17 2017 at 06:45
I have a copy of the 2007 printing, I page through it no less than 3-4 times per week as I spin my way through my prog vinyl collection.
Is there a newer edition available? The copy I have has a different cover than the "Minstrels" vinyl groove cover.
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Posted By: AFlowerKingCrimson
Date Posted: August 17 2017 at 06:55
If you are referring to what I said I didn't dismiss it based on what one reviewer said. In fact I didn't dismiss the book at all. I'm sure it's a great book for those who want to explore prog further and don't know where to start. For me personally I have all the information I need to buy prog music for the next several years.
Also, being that these days it seems that mostly newer prog is what is on the radar of most prog fans it's good to expose at least some of them to the older bands and albums they might not otherwise know about so kudos for doing that.
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Posted By: scruffydragon
Date Posted: August 21 2017 at 12:44
This is my 4th attempt at posting here. I AM NOT A ROBOT, I AM NOT A ROBOT,I AM NOT A ROBOT, perhaps it will go away if I close my eyes and wish hard enough. It's a good book and a must for every coffee table. My only grumble.................................More pages please Been around and collecting the progressive underground of the late 60's early 70's for years and this book has been a real eye opener. Thank you for a marvellous reference book.
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Posted By: Sean Trane
Date Posted: January 22 2018 at 04:37
Fairly few
books merit the name of a "brick", but this one does: not only
because of its name, but also its format that comes close to a real clay brick,
though the book's cover is neither strawberry or clay colour like. Despite its
foundational reference book nature, it is a brick which you shouldn't place at
the bottom of your library's foundation, because you will probably pull it out
repeatedly to verify some info on an album's place in progressive rock's
history.
Though a
lot of encyclopedian music books follow some kind of chronology, Charles Snider
has a different concept than most music books, who either go through the
history of a musical movement either year by year, group by group. In the
present case, he goes one further by respecting a more strict chronology, going
through the year's releases month by month, which is as far as I know the first
time this has been done. Aymeric Leroy has done this to some extent on his
Canterbury School recent book, but if that other (thicker) brick does review somewhat
the albums released, it is not its main goal.
Indeed,
this monthly release notion is
relatively important in understanding as to whom influenced whom and eventually
on on which album. Most other books will present a given year's output on the
same pedestal with no chronological order, unless a band/artiste has put out
more than one album that year.
This
monthly release notion is not only an important one, but a sometimes
complicated task, as the information is not necessarily easily available/ Most
records will give the recording date, but never the actual release date, though
one can extrapolate that it would normally be marketed roughly six to 15 weeks
after the recording sessions, though there is no rule at all. In some case, the
author did not manage to find a more precise date, so he will give "Autumn
71" (which is still fine) or "Sometime in 73" (which means that
the author's search for additional info failed)
Of course
the book doesn't fully manage to translate Snider's excellent website of the same name,
as the actual timeline is simply unformattable (read practically impossible)
onto paper, unless using the foldable leporello
format, but even then I doubt the result will be very practical. Though still
focusing on the late-60's until the late 70's, this 2.0 version of Strawberry
Brick book sees the timeline extended to the early 80's, and he gives us a
rapid overview of decades to come as an epilogue. As another "bonus",
a series of lengthy and fascinating interviews of some of the key actors - no
superstars, but some essential artistes – are very welcome.
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