what about joe satriani?
Printed From: Progarchives.com
Category: Progressive Music Lounges
Forum Name: Suggest New Bands and Artists
Forum Description: Suggest, create polls, and classify new bands you would like included on Prog Archives
URL: http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=47565
Printed Date: November 29 2024 at 17:50
Software Version: Web Wiz Forums 11.01 - http://www.webwizforums.com
Topic: what about joe satriani?
Posted By: bluesynight
Subject: what about joe satriani?
Date Posted: April 02 2008 at 12:35
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steve vai and petrucci have "pages", but satriani dont? |
Replies:
Posted By: Queen By-Tor
Date Posted: April 02 2008 at 12:59
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I'm a huge Satch fan... HUGE! (I'm even listening to his newest album
right now) But I don't think that his inclusion is truly warranted on
the Archives. He's an excellent guitarist and composer... but prog he ain't. Petrucci is here because he's an excellent prog guitarist... and Vai's inclusion has always boggled my mind (as much as I like him) but even he has come up with some more progressive tunes like Fire Garden Suite, Under It All, and most of his newest studio album. I'd love to review some Satch, but I wouldn't call him prog. |
Posted By: bluesynight
Date Posted: April 02 2008 at 14:12
| vai? ok i can see why his here, but petrucci? why? what was so special about http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suspended_Animation_%28John_Petrucci_album%29 - Suspended Animation ? why is it more prog then, lets say..."crystal planet". is iron maiden is prog? no but it still here, and so is kong. and so is queen? you telling me that queen is more prog then satch? if those bands are here, then he should be here to!!! ../artist.asp?id=2629 - |
Posted By: Angelo
Date Posted: April 02 2008 at 15:30
Welcome to ProgArchives, bluesynight.  In view of your question, I think it's wise to have a look at the definition of our "Prog-related" category, where you'll find a.o. Iron Maiden. These bands are related to prog for various reasons, but are not considered prog themselves. Just click on Prog Related on the site's main page and you'll get all the info you need on that. As far as Satriani is concerned: a forum search will do the trick there, http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=27644&KW=satriani - he's been discussed before . Enjoy your time here!!! To all others: no newbie-bashing please, or I'll know where to find you  ------------- http://www.iskcrocks.com" rel="nofollow - ISKC Rock Radio I stopped blogging and reviewing - so won't be handling requests. Promo's for ariplay can be sent to [email protected] |
Posted By: MikeEnRegalia
Date Posted: April 02 2008 at 16:36
Absolutely. Do you know Queen II? ------------- https://awesomeprog.com/users/Mike" rel="nofollow">Recently listened to: 
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bluesynight wrote:Posted By: bluesynight
Date Posted: April 02 2008 at 16:48
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thanks for the welcoming.... my question is a little bit different, i want to know why some shredders such as vai and petrucci are here, and paul gilbert satriani and malmsteen are not. vai: "Progressive guitar composer and Zappa alumni"... ................................................................................................................................................................................................. Progressive guitar composer? if that enough to be considered as prog related? then malmsteen should be here to. Zappa alumni? whats that got to do with any thing? petrucci:"Because, if we list all the stuff of DREAM THEATER, all his participations on other projects such as LTE or Jon Finn Group, we have to accept that we are in front of a modern Icon of Progressive Rock and Heavy Metal. Thats Why"................................................................................................................................................................................................... you judging his solo work by his work with DT, and that just stupid.. fine, heres one on satriani... one of the bast shredders of all time, he was a teacher to some of the greatest guitar player including STEVE VAI, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kirk_Hammett - Kirk Hammett , http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Bryson - David Bryson , http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kevin_Cadogan - Kevin Cadogan , http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Larry_LaLonde - Larry LaLonde http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Primus_%28band%29 - Primus , http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Possessed_%28band%29 - Possessed , http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alex_Skolnick - Alex Skolnick , http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rick_Hunolt - Rick Hunolt , Phil Kettner , and http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charlie_Hunter - Charlie Hunter . he played with deep purple, and he "created the g3. i think its sounds batter then "modern Icon of Progressive Rock and Heavy Metal. Thats Why". |
Posted By: Queen By-Tor
Date Posted: April 02 2008 at 17:19
Yes... but does that make him progressive according to the guidelines and elements of this site? No one here is doubting that he's a great guitarist... but that does not make him progressive. |
Posted By: debrewguy
Date Posted: April 02 2008 at 17:25
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I wonder if some of his new millenium albums might be given a listen to. True, he is a rocker, but for a few albums strayed into more experimental music such as Engines of Creation & Crystal Planet. Now don't ask me for a review, but a buddy of mine who's a Satch fan described them as less of your typical guitar album than a lot of his stuff.
------------- "Here I am talking to some of the smartest people in the world and I didn't even notice, Lieutenant Columbo, episode The Bye-Bye Sky-High I.Q. Murder Case. |
Posted By: bluesynight
Date Posted: April 02 2008 at 17:27
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well nether is vai or petrucci(as a solo performer). so why they are here? again vai: "Progressive guitar composer and Zappa alumni" what exactly make him progressive according to the guidelines and elements of this site? |
Posted By: Angelo
Date Posted: April 02 2008 at 17:29
So your question is different, as are some of the views you express. Let's avoid calling each other things we might regret later. I already mentioned that I will not tolerate 'newbie-bashing', but for the newbie (that's you  ), I will add to this that I will also not tolerate 'site-bashing'...Now, carry on... ------------- http://www.iskcrocks.com" rel="nofollow - ISKC Rock Radio I stopped blogging and reviewing - so won't be handling requests. Promo's for ariplay can be sent to [email protected] |
Posted By: Queen By-Tor
Date Posted: April 02 2008 at 17:37
Vai has done a number of longer symphonic compositions most of which feature a number of speed changes... and I took this right from the prog related description
I'm not trying to bash you here... but you need a stronger arguement |
Posted By: bluesynight
Date Posted: April 02 2008 at 17:48
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ok, so you say that vai is here becouse of the symphonic compositions? then why malmsteen is not here? hes done the same thing. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lynUMFJRiik |
Posted By: Queen By-Tor
Date Posted: April 02 2008 at 17:49
But it's not about Vai... it's about Satch |
Posted By: Queen By-Tor
Date Posted: April 02 2008 at 17:59
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It's interesting that this suggestion was started.... I just put up this poll yesterday forum_posts.asp?TID=47551 - http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=47551 I'd be happy to discuss Satch in this thread with you... but as fellow fans
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Posted By: Atavachron
Date Posted: April 02 2008 at 18:01
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nothing is automatic.. every decision made and artist added (especially one that will draw controversy as Satch) is carefully considered, and rarely based on a "that band is here so why not this one" reasoning.. currently the best place for Joe would probably ProgRelated but even that's stretch since he isn't really related to Prog at all, and if Yngwie or Greg Howe or George Bellas were added, that would have little bearing on any other 'shredder' or instrumentalist |
Posted By: MikeEnRegalia
Date Posted: April 02 2008 at 18:07
*sigh* ... Vai is very different from Malmsteen. Those of you who don't agree ... well, I hope that you'll continue to listen to music, increase your knowledge / broaden your horizon and one day maybe you'll understand. ------------- https://awesomeprog.com/users/Mike" rel="nofollow">Recently listened to:
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Posted By: Dean
Date Posted: April 02 2008 at 18:11
We do not include or exclude artists based upon comparisons with other artists, but only on their own merits by the music they have recorded.
"Prog" is not a comparative value - you can only say that "A" is more prog then "B" in subjective terms, therefore we try to avoid this when assessing artists for inclusion into the archive and judge the music presented against the definitions for each sub-genre.
Whether Vai, or Petrucci, or di Meola, or Frith, or Hackett, or Gilmour, or Howe, or Manzanera, or Fripp, or McLaughlin, or Zappa, or Beck are included in the archive has no bearing on the inclusion of any other "great" guitarist.
Under some circumstances an artist may be considered for Prog Related if it can be shown that there is some relationship to Progressive music in the work that they have produced. ------------- What? |
Posted By: bluesynight
Date Posted: April 02 2008 at 18:13
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for me "they" all "just" shredders, and i
really trying to understand why some are here and some are not. and i
think that if you consider petruccis "suspended animation" as prog,
then all of Satch albums are prog. the only difference is that petrucci
plays with DT, and i dont see why its got something to do with his solo
album. ok dont put satch, but can you answer me why petrucci is here? |
Posted By: debrewguy
Date Posted: April 02 2008 at 18:16
Yngnut, I mean, Yngwie's ego is too big to get through the door. Of course now his puffy face almost matches his overblown opinion of himself.  ------------- "Here I am talking to some of the smartest people in the world and I didn't even notice, Lieutenant Columbo, episode The Bye-Bye Sky-High I.Q. Murder Case. |
Posted By: Atavachron
Date Posted: April 02 2008 at 18:18
that's a big difference, not to mention LTE and Explorer's Club |
Posted By: bluesynight
Date Posted: April 02 2008 at 18:19
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well if some one will tell me why some of the shredders are here, it will help me with my arguments in the future, because i really didn't understood why vai is here, and satach isn't. again for me they all "just" shredders. |
Posted By: Queen By-Tor
Date Posted: April 02 2008 at 18:31
Songs that I mentioned before are enough to get him included, but I haven't heard his whole discography.
I think that progressive composer is what did it. I'm sure whoever added him was also having a good day and was feeling kind enough to add him  |
Posted By: bluesynight
Date Posted: April 02 2008 at 18:32
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well thats why LTE , DT and Explorer's Club are here, but i dont see how its got something to do with his solo album, its just a pure shred album. if tony macalpine plays with vai, cab and planet x, it doesn't mean that his solo albums should be considered as prog.
/edit: huge chunk of html removed - dean(c) ------------- The Irish gave the bagpipes to the Scotts as a joke, but the Scotts haven't seen the joke yet. (Oliver Herford) |
Posted By: bluesynight
Date Posted: April 02 2008 at 18:37
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thats why LTE, DT and e.club are here, but his solo album is pure shred. if macalpine plays with vai,cab, and planet x, it doesn't mean that his solo albums are prog. |
Posted By: micky
Date Posted: April 02 2008 at 18:40
 ------------- The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip |
Posted By: Dean
Date Posted: April 02 2008 at 18:41
It is impossible to go back in time and review each and every inclusion, we do not keep those kinds of records. At the time of their addition to the site, a team of people listened to their music and voted them in. As I have already said - the inclusion of one artist is irrelevant when considering another. Whether you or I understand why Vai is here is immaterial to the inclusion or exclusion of Satriani.
Prog Related is a special category that is outside the "normal" definitions of Progressive Music covered by our main sub-genres (Progressive Metal, Symphonic etc.). Artists considered for PR have to have some relationship to Progressive Music but do not necessarily have to be "Prog" ------------- What? |
Posted By: bluesynight
Date Posted: April 02 2008 at 18:54
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i dont care about each and every one, i care only about two, there are
only two shredders here, and i got an answer about one of them.
actually i got an answer about the second one two, but its a really bad
answer, and im looking if i can get a better one. |
Posted By: The Quiet One
Date Posted: April 02 2008 at 19:03
Are here in Prog Related! that doesn't mean they're prog. |
Posted By: bluesynight
Date Posted: April 02 2008 at 19:09
| of course they different, but he said that vai is here because of his "symphonies". Malmsteen all so have symphonies but his not here. yes, of course if we judge by the technical lvl and creativity vai is much more superior, but its more about definition then ability. |
Posted By: Dean
Date Posted: April 02 2008 at 19:15
You've confused me about who you are talking about. You were given a "bad" answer in your opinion for which artist? ------------- What? |
Posted By: The Quiet One
Date Posted: April 02 2008 at 19:16
I really must leave this thread now cause I really don't know nothing about these guitar players except for their fame.. So I'll leave the experts for this. |
Posted By: bluesynight
Date Posted: April 02 2008 at 19:22
sorry its 2 AM here .about petrucci, the only answer i got is that his solo album is here because he plays with DT. and i don't see the connection between his solo career and his work with DT, his solo album is pure shred just like satriani. |
Posted By: Dean
Date Posted: April 02 2008 at 19:40
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Since I do not deal with Tech/Extreme Prog Metal inclusions I cannot give a better explanation than the one given.
Also I've never heard Suspended Animation so cannot comment on whether it is shred or not - I can tell you that until recently his discography also included An Evening With... but this has since been moved to Crossover under http://www.progarchives.com/artist.asp?id=3406 - Rudess and Petrucci ... whether this move has made any difference to his placement in Tech/Extreme is a question for the PMT and not really "on topic" for this thread (i.e. it has nothing to do with Satriani).
------------- What? |
Posted By: MikeEnRegalia
Date Posted: April 03 2008 at 02:49
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Well ... as a matter of fact there are some more shredders which were cleared for addition by the PMT: JT Bruce, Chris Brooks, Marty Friedman, Kiko Loureiro, Tony MacAlpine, Chris Poland and Ron Thal.
------------- https://awesomeprog.com/users/Mike" rel="nofollow">Recently listened to:
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Posted By: bluesynight
Date Posted: April 03 2008 at 03:05
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if petrucci is considered as tech, i dont see a reason why satch wont be considered as tech. but to be honest i know that petruuci shouldn't be there, i just wanted to see if some one can give me a batter answer then "Icon of Progressive Rock and Heavy Metal. Thats Why". well thanks any way. |
Posted By: MikeEnRegalia
Date Posted: April 03 2008 at 03:10
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^ there is no way to explain it in a brief sentence. But when it comes to Satch I'd like to point out that his music isn't really metal ... it has a heavy edge to it, but I would still place it in Rock, the same goes for Vai. And with that being the case, the prog metal team has no saying as to whether he should be included or not. Personally, I think that he *could* be included as prog related. But I think that it's definitely not as strong a case as Vai.
------------- https://awesomeprog.com/users/Mike" rel="nofollow">Recently listened to:
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Posted By: bluesynight
Date Posted: April 03 2008 at 03:22
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by the stupid answer i got on petrucci, i would say that macalpine should be here, and greg howe (fusion). and by the answer i got on vai, i think that malmsteen should be here to , of course i wont say any think becouse i hate him  , but thats for other time
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Posted By: MikeEnRegalia
Date Posted: April 03 2008 at 03:32
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^ where's the connection between Malmsteen and Vai? I just don't get it.
------------- https://awesomeprog.com/users/Mike" rel="nofollow">Recently listened to:
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Posted By: Easy Livin
Date Posted: April 03 2008 at 03:35
As a general policy, we do admit the solo projects of prog band members to complete the picture for that band. Such artists are tested for prog and if they fit in a prog category they will go there.
If they are not considered prog in their own right, they are added as Prog Related on the basis that their project is closely related to a prog band.
Note that this policy does not extend to members of Prog Related or Proto Prog bands. You may or may not agree with this policy, but hopefully this helps to explain the raitonale.
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Posted By: bluesynight
Date Posted: April 03 2008 at 04:20
the symphonies..
if thats the only reason why his here, then malmsteen should be here to. |
Posted By: Dean
Date Posted: April 03 2008 at 04:28
How many times I can say this? - The reasons for including one artist CANNOT be used to justify including a different artist. Malmsteen would be judged on his own by his own recordings and not in relation to any other guitarist or their work.
ps: be careful how you use the word "stupid" ------------- What? |
Posted By: bluesynight
Date Posted: April 03 2008 at 06:43
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so you saying that if tony macalpine(its an example, im not asking to add him) plays with planet x, and planet x became planet x after he joined it, and his solo project is closely related to planet x, then he should be here? p.s im not asking to judge/add planet x, or macalpine, im just want to understand this policy. |
Posted By: Dean
Date Posted: April 03 2008 at 07:03
If by "his solo project is closely related to Planet X" you mean it is a Jazz/Rock Fusion album that meets our definition of Jazz/Rock Fusion then he would be considered for inclusion - however it is up to the Jazz/Rock Fusion Team to assess the work and make that decision, but if the solo albums were just classic rock, or neo-classical metal, or whatever, then he would not be included.
Again, this has nothing to do with Satriani. ------------- What? |
Posted By: MikeEnRegalia
Date Posted: April 03 2008 at 07:04
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^ Like it or not, but it does matter which musician you're talking about. In the case of Tony MacAlpine his albums are prog (fusion), so he can be added on the strenght of his discography alone. In other cases what you said above might apply ... musicians may be added as solo albums if they played in an important prog band. But IMO this should only be done if their solo albums are at least compatible with prog, and if they're not really prog then the artist should be added as prog-related.
------------- https://awesomeprog.com/users/Mike" rel="nofollow">Recently listened to:
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Posted By: BaldJean
Date Posted: April 03 2008 at 09:44
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Joe Satriani reminds me a lot of Steve Hackett; their guitar tones are very similar (at least on the albums I have heard of Satriani; I don't know them all). I would have no problem with his inclusion
-------------  A shot of me as High Priestess of Gaia during our fall festival. Ceterum censeo principiis obsta |
Posted By: MikeEnRegalia
Date Posted: April 03 2008 at 09:52
^ I must remember to get around to listening to the three Steve Hackett vinyls I bought about a year ago ... 
------------- https://awesomeprog.com/users/Mike" rel="nofollow">Recently listened to:
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Posted By: bluesynight
Date Posted: April 03 2008 at 13:18
of course its got something to do with satriani, i made some points, and "you" made some points about your policy's. and i just tried to understand this policy's better, and i did. the only reason i used planet x is because im a really big fan, and not because i tried to add macalpine, maybe satriani really shouldn't be here , but at list i have a clue about ppl/band that should be here but they not here (but this is for other argument).thanks any way, i done with this argument. |
Posted By: MikeEnRegalia
Date Posted: April 03 2008 at 13:32
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^ Well, maybe you're done with the argument ... but if you like you can come over to my website and help us build a list of great guitar albums. There you can also vote whether the Satriani albums are prog or not.
------------- https://awesomeprog.com/users/Mike" rel="nofollow">Recently listened to:
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Posted By: bluesynight
Date Posted: April 03 2008 at 15:16
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sure! whats the address. |
Posted By: Angelo
Date Posted: April 03 2008 at 15:35
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He's got you there Mike - this is probably the first time you promoted your site without providing a link
------------- http://www.iskcrocks.com" rel="nofollow - ISKC Rock Radio I stopped blogging and reviewing - so won't be handling requests. Promo's for ariplay can be sent to [email protected] |
Posted By: TheProgtologist
Date Posted: April 03 2008 at 15:50
 It definitely is,that glaring error on Mike's part left me speechless.You're slipping Mike!
  -------------  |
Posted By: Easy Livin
Date Posted: April 03 2008 at 15:57
Must be an imposter... where's the real Mike!!!????
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Posted By: Dean
Date Posted: April 03 2008 at 15:58
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Mike's got a website? ------------- What? |
Posted By: MikeEnRegalia
Date Posted: April 03 2008 at 16:31
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As a matter of fact I left the link out intentionally because I had posted it in another thread today and I really don't want to spam the place. But since he asked: Of course it's the fascinating http://ratingfreak.com - Ratingfreak.com !  ------------- https://awesomeprog.com/users/Mike" rel="nofollow">Recently listened to:
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Posted By: Atavachron
Date Posted: April 03 2008 at 16:32
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Posted By: Angelo
Date Posted: April 03 2008 at 17:30
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------------- http://www.iskcrocks.com" rel="nofollow - ISKC Rock Radio I stopped blogging and reviewing - so won't be handling requests. Promo's for ariplay can be sent to [email protected] |
Posted By: Avantgardehead
Date Posted: April 04 2008 at 04:40
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Petrucci's here because he plays down-tuned guitar-driven music with heavy distortion, chugging riffs, modern rock progressions, and insane solos and that's all that's needed to pass as progressive metal these days.
------------- http://www.last.fm/user/Avantgardian |
Posted By: Atavachron
Date Posted: April 04 2008 at 04:45
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^ well does he avoid the plastic, vapid commercial crap that shows up on almost every Satch album? I love Satriani but he's recorded some God awful stuff that's purely intended for mass appeal.. nothing wrong with that but it's a reason one could site for non-inclusion at a prog site |
Posted By: Avantgardehead
Date Posted: April 04 2008 at 04:54
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Satch does seem to recycle an awful lot of stuff, mostly those blasted blues riffs, ewww. But he seems like a more genuine guitar player to me for some reason that I can't explain...
------------- http://www.last.fm/user/Avantgardian |
Posted By: bluesynight
Date Posted: April 04 2008 at 06:00
1)in his solo album, were did you heard modern rock progressions? 2) heavy distortion ? no its not enough to be prog.2)his solo album is pure SHRED, there are allot others that are not here (including satch).
he plays for 30 years, what do you expect. and i rather listing to him recycle his music, then to hear him ripoff other band like DT did on they last album. ps i LOVE the blues riffs(Pentatonic) ------------- The Irish gave the bagpipes to the Scotts as a joke, but the Scotts haven't seen the joke yet. (Oliver Herford) |
Posted By: bluesynight
Date Posted: April 04 2008 at 06:19
ouu pls, the last dream theater album was one big ripoff that all so was made for mass appeal, so what? now you going to delete dream theater? of course not. his "bad" stuff don't affect his good stuff. ------------- The Irish gave the bagpipes to the Scotts as a joke, but the Scotts haven't seen the joke yet. (Oliver Herford) |
Posted By: MikeEnRegalia
Date Posted: April 04 2008 at 06:26
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^ Listen to bands like Linkin Park if you want to get closer to the definition of "mass appeal". The only "mass-compatible" song on Systematic Chaos is Forsaken, and that strategy (to have one or two "hit singles" on an album) was used by many prog bands, even some of those considered to be the core of the classic prog movement.
------------- https://awesomeprog.com/users/Mike" rel="nofollow">Recently listened to:
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Posted By: bluesynight
Date Posted: April 04 2008 at 06:57
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Forsaken, sounds like linkin park. proper for war, sounds like muse. dark eternal night and consent motion, were more of a trash songs that reminded me of metallica. so what? when DT do it its ok, but when joe do something for the masses its wrong? back in the old days , the songs "pull me under " and the song http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Another_Day_%28Dream_Theater_song%29 - Another Day , were played 24/7 on MTV, and they were on the top 10 on MTVs blablabla....well you get my point. ------------- The Irish gave the bagpipes to the Scotts as a joke, but the Scotts haven't seen the joke yet. (Oliver Herford) |
Posted By: GoldenSpiral
Date Posted: April 04 2008 at 07:32
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Just because something is popular means it can't be prog? Seriously though, Joe is awesome... but that doesn't mean he's really a progressive composer. ------------- http://www.myspace.com/altaic" rel="nofollow - http://www.myspace.com/altaic ALTAIC "Oceans Down You'll Lie" coming soon |
Posted By: bluesynight
Date Posted: April 04 2008 at 08:23
to say that he shouldn't be here because his not prog is one thing, but to say that he shouldn't be here because he made some songs for the masses is another...
------------- The Irish gave the bagpipes to the Scotts as a joke, but the Scotts haven't seen the joke yet. (Oliver Herford) |
Posted By: MikeEnRegalia
Date Posted: April 04 2008 at 09:07
Don't get me started on people who say "trash" instead of "thrash" ... I certainly get your point, but the comparison still isn't valid. The title of the recent DT compilation says it all: "Greatest Hit (and 21 other pretty good songs)". Dream Theater became the blueprint of Prog Metal - not for Pull Me Under, but for their entire discography. Where's Satriani's prog music ... show me an epic, show me an elaborate concept album, show me some daring, experimental stuff. I could easily live with some pop "guilty pleasures" of Satriani, but only if the rest of his work merits an inclusion. And considering that Vai is only here as prog-related ... ------------- https://awesomeprog.com/users/Mike" rel="nofollow">Recently listened to:
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Posted By: Atavachron
Date Posted: April 04 2008 at 14:44
hey man, I'm just trying to explain in further detail why he's not here, and what the thinking process may be among members and collabs ..I stand by everything I've said argue constructively and you'll get much farther |
Posted By: Angelo
Date Posted: April 04 2008 at 14:48
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I thought this discussion was over? Don't go running in circles, folks...
------------- http://www.iskcrocks.com" rel="nofollow - ISKC Rock Radio I stopped blogging and reviewing - so won't be handling requests. Promo's for ariplay can be sent to [email protected] |
Posted By: Atavachron
Date Posted: April 04 2008 at 14:50
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this discussion is over as far as I can tell |
Posted By: WaywardSon
Date Posted: April 04 2008 at 19:42
Satriani may have released some slightly more commercial sounding songs, but nothing quite on the same level as Asia, Queen and Styx with songs like "Another one bites the dust" "Heat of the moment" and "Lady"
So it isnt a reason one could site for non inclusion at a prog site (Actually he would go in Prog Related, which isnt full prog.)
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Posted By: Dean
Date Posted: April 04 2008 at 20:01
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/pedant hat on
cite - not site
/pedant hat off ------------- What? |
Posted By: Atavachron
Date Posted: April 04 2008 at 22:07
yeah, except that's the exact argument that's been debunked again and again in this thread; artists are not added based on who has already been added (cause that's idiotic, isn't it?)-- therefore, there must be something else about those bands that make them related to Prog ..anyway.. I think I'm outta here |
Posted By: WaywardSon
Date Posted: April 04 2008 at 22:52
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I shouldnīt have used the "If X is here why isnīt...", sorry about that, but I just wanted to say it isnīt a reason one could cite for non inclusion (Especially as we are talking about Prog Related) On a final note, if you listen to the albums "Joe Satriani" and "Engines of creation" you will hear quite a lot of Prog
Iīm outta here too
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Posted By: Atavachron
Date Posted: April 04 2008 at 22:57
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Engines is one of my favorites of his... Prog? not sure, modern instrumental rock let's say now I'm REALLY outta here  |
Posted By: Dean
Date Posted: April 04 2008 at 22:59
Oi! You left the  lights on, we're not made of money! 
*click* ------------- What? |
Posted By: WaywardSon
Date Posted: April 04 2008 at 23:05
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On second thoughts, the album "Joe Satriani" is more Prog (the one you havenīt heard)
OK, now that I had the final say, we can close this thread
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Posted By: TheProgtologist
Date Posted: April 05 2008 at 01:39
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This is easy to solve....what sub-genre do you propose Satriani for?
That proposal can be given to the appropriate genre team here,and they can discuss the issue and vote on whether Satch should be included.
If he gets accepted for inclusion..cool,if not....we can all move on,because this discussion is going nowhere. ------------- |
Posted By: WaywardSon
Date Posted: April 05 2008 at 02:46
| The only place where he could fit is Prog Related IMO |
Posted By: Angelo
Date Posted: April 05 2008 at 04:33
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He's got at least one vote against him there.
------------- http://www.iskcrocks.com" rel="nofollow - ISKC Rock Radio I stopped blogging and reviewing - so won't be handling requests. Promo's for ariplay can be sent to [email protected] |
Posted By: bluesynight
Date Posted: April 05 2008 at 15:10
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its simple, if you consider "pure shredders" as prog, he should be here(prog related) , if not, then he dont.. i understood that you don't, i don't agree, but i can respect that. ------------- The Irish gave the bagpipes to the Scotts as a joke, but the Scotts haven't seen the joke yet. (Oliver Herford) |
Posted By: MikeEnRegalia
Date Posted: April 05 2008 at 15:22
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^ what's your reason ... why should pure shredders be added? I seriously want to understand this.
------------- https://awesomeprog.com/users/Mike" rel="nofollow">Recently listened to:
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Posted By: WaywardSon
Date Posted: April 05 2008 at 16:13
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I donīt consider Satriani or Vai shredders, sure they can shred when they want to ,but to label them only "a shredder" is a bit of a generalization, Malmsteen is more of a shredder.
I also didnīt really understand that last post saying pure shredders should be added??
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Posted By: bluesynight
Date Posted: April 05 2008 at 17:05
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satriani not a shredder? i can go all technicals about why his a shredder, and i can all so find you the definition of "shred", but A) my english suck, and its taking me to much time to type in english, and B) i really dont want to. and they are "only shredders", most of they music is focusing on the guitar playing, and not on the band as whole. for example petrucci is all so a shreader, but in DT case they work as a group. unlike satriani vai and Malmsteen that in they case its focusing on the guitar playing... but over all its all shred, and in MY opinion its should be considered as prog. and i just wondering, what would you call satch (genre of course)?
------------- The Irish gave the bagpipes to the Scotts as a joke, but the Scotts haven't seen the joke yet. (Oliver Herford) |
Posted By: MikeEnRegalia
Date Posted: April 05 2008 at 18:11
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^ you still didn't say why you think that pure shred should be considered to be prog. BTW: I would say that the music of Joe Satriani *defines* shred. It's instrumental music focused on the guitar, with tremendous technicality *and* tasteful songwriting. The latter isn't required for something to be called "shred", but it helps to make a lasting impression. But all that isn't prog IMO, it can only become prog if additional elements are added, like solid Jazz-Fusion tendencies, Avant/Experimental parts etc.. Of course considering Satriani's Engines of Creation there could be a case for inclusion, but it's not a defining part of his discography ... and still - like Vai - it would only be enough for prog-related.------------- https://awesomeprog.com/users/Mike" rel="nofollow">Recently listened to:
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Posted By: bluesynight
Date Posted: April 05 2008 at 19:15
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shred is the force that stands behind allot of the prog. its one of the the thing that makes fusion fusion. if you take symphony x and take away the symphonic part, it still be considered as prog just because of http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michael_Romeo - Michael Romeo who is a great SHREADER! shread is a big part of prog metal as well. shred = high playing ability, and yes in prog high playing ability is impotent. so if you had a metal band that use allot of shread you would considered it as prog, but when you have a true genius like satriani that use only shred, then his not? shred is a big part of prog.
how many guitar players you know that did what he did before him (pure instrumental guitar shred). i really cant think even about one name right now. Satch was the first shredder to sell A LOT  of records for a major label.he should be in prog related. ------------- The Irish gave the bagpipes to the Scotts as a joke, but the Scotts haven't seen the joke yet. (Oliver Herford) |
Posted By: keiser willhelm
Date Posted: April 05 2008 at 19:59
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satch is a great soloist who doesnt have many connections to prog. Prog = Great Playing ability, but Great playing ability does not = Prog. if you would give some examples or explain how exactly satch is related to prog then maybe your case would be supported. as of right now i dont think you are.
------------- http://www.last.fm/user/KeiserWillhelm" rel="nofollow - What im listening to |
Posted By: JLocke
Date Posted: April 07 2008 at 15:33
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Satriani is Jazz/Fusion all the way as far as I am concerned. Sadly, it is not up to me whether or not to include the man. I have in in the Jazz-Rock/Fusion section of my album shelf at home, but the archives doesn't consider him unique enough to include him. While I certainly do not agree with this opinion, alas this is the way it is. However I do agree that if Steve Vai is good enough for "Prog-Related", Satriani should be as well. That, however, is up to the admins, who call the shots when it comes to the PR section of the 'chives. I personally hope that one day artists like Dimmu Borgir, Andreas Vollenweider and yes, Joe Satriani will find their rightful place here, and if PR ends up being where they reside, that's just fine by me. At least they would be here. |
Posted By: debrewguy
Date Posted: April 07 2008 at 19:40
Awright ! I love this guy. Once we get Friedman & Poland in, we'll be able to push for Megadeth's inclusion. Then Dave Mustaine will be able to claim one victory over his old bandmates in M@$#%^^#a! ------------- "Here I am talking to some of the smartest people in the world and I didn't even notice, Lieutenant Columbo, episode The Bye-Bye Sky-High I.Q. Murder Case. |
Posted By: debrewguy
Date Posted: April 07 2008 at 19:44
I've read that here about Hogarth's Marillion. Or even Neo - Prog in general. Don't agree with it. Mind you, I'm just starting to get into Brave & Marbles. Have yet to see why some see absolutely no prog in there ??? ------------- "Here I am talking to some of the smartest people in the world and I didn't even notice, Lieutenant Columbo, episode The Bye-Bye Sky-High I.Q. Murder Case. |
Posted By: debrewguy
Date Posted: April 07 2008 at 19:48
Like when King Crimson went new wave in the 80s, you mean ------------- "Here I am talking to some of the smartest people in the world and I didn't even notice, Lieutenant Columbo, episode The Bye-Bye Sky-High I.Q. Murder Case. |
Posted By: Dean
Date Posted: April 07 2008 at 19:49
Chris Poland's been here for about 3 years: http://www.progarchives.com/artist.asp?id=1611 - http://www.progarchives.com/artist.asp?id=1611 (I strongly recommend the "live" album) ------------- What? |
Posted By: debrewguy
Date Posted: April 07 2008 at 19:54
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If Vai, with a more eclectic career )Zappa, Flea-able, some of his more esoteric comps on his first 2 proper solo albums) than Satch could only make to prog related , it makes sense that Satch would be a stretch. I think we're only seeing a battle because of the rabid fan base (well deserved) that he has.
------------- "Here I am talking to some of the smartest people in the world and I didn't even notice, Lieutenant Columbo, episode The Bye-Bye Sky-High I.Q. Murder Case. |
Posted By: bluesynight
Date Posted: April 08 2008 at 07:53
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when a shredder works with a band its prog(DT) , but when the shredder works as a "shredder" (pure shredder) you say its not prog. satriani dont have a genre, and as a shreader (shred is a technic that more "visible" in fusion and prog metal then in any other genre) he should be in prog related. so lets do it like this, if his not prog what is he? ------------- The Irish gave the bagpipes to the Scotts as a joke, but the Scotts haven't seen the joke yet. (Oliver Herford) |
Posted By: Dean
Date Posted: April 08 2008 at 08:59
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...not here. Shred Guitar is not a genre or a technique - Steve Hackett employs all the techniques but he is not a shredder. Being able to play fast, or complicated (or even well) does not qualify a musician for inclusion here (on any instrument) - what is important is the music, not how it is played - if the music is not Progressive Rock, or related to Progressive Rock in someway, then we do not include the artist on this site.  ------------- What? |
Posted By: BaldJean
Date Posted: April 08 2008 at 09:56
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well, the last time I heard Satriani was about 10 years ago, and he definitely was NOT a shredder back then. he may have changed though recently; I don't know about that. but back then his intonation reminded me a lot of Steve Hackett, however mad that may sound to you
------------- A shot of me as High Priestess of Gaia during our fall festival. Ceterum censeo principiis obsta |
Posted By: MikeEnRegalia
Date Posted: April 08 2008 at 10:09
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^ sorry, but he's the textbook definition of "guitar shredder" ... together with Vai and all the other guys who they invite on the G3 tours. IMO the two key guitar shredder albums are Steve Vai's Passion and Warfare and Joe Satriani's Surfing with the Alien, both are from the 80s. BTW: shredding doesn't have to be mindless ... it just refers to music which is inherently technical and virtuosic. I don't know about Hackett, but there's a cool Howe shred album too (Quantum Guitar). ------------- https://awesomeprog.com/users/Mike" rel="nofollow">Recently listened to:
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Posted By: BaldJean
Date Posted: April 08 2008 at 10:49
I can only repeat that this is not how the man came through to me. the music was by no means overly virtuosic; it was more about sound. of course there were virtuosic parts in it, but definitely not all the time, else I wouldn't remember him favorably. I tire very quickly from players who play virtuosic all the time. unfortunately I don't remember what album I heard of him ------------- A shot of me as High Priestess of Gaia during our fall festival. Ceterum censeo principiis obsta |
Posted By: bluesynight
Date Posted: April 08 2008 at 10:56
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actually shred is combination of technics, the main difference between jazz thats not prog, and fusion that is prog, is shread! you want an example.."al di meola" the first jazz player that used shred in his music, and thats the main reason his fusion and not jazz, so ye it does matter, and of course his in the archives. ------------- The Irish gave the bagpipes to the Scotts as a joke, but the Scotts haven't seen the joke yet. (Oliver Herford) |
Posted By: MikeEnRegalia
Date Posted: April 08 2008 at 13:25
Who said something about "all the time"? ------------- https://awesomeprog.com/users/Mike" rel="nofollow">Recently listened to:
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Posted By: BaldJean
Date Posted: April 08 2008 at 13:33
for me the definition of "shredder" is someone who does it all the time; the word definitely has negative connotations for me. if someone does it occasionally it is not fair towards him/her to reduce him/her to that technique by calling him/her a "shredder". just my 5 cents worth on that topic ------------- A shot of me as High Priestess of Gaia during our fall festival. Ceterum censeo principiis obsta |