Progressive copy cats
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Forum Name: Prog Music Lounge
Forum Description: General progressive music discussions
URL: http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=4504
Printed Date: November 26 2024 at 20:37
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Topic: Progressive copy cats
Posted By: Zero the hero
Subject: Progressive copy cats
Date Posted: March 22 2005 at 14:08
| Who do we think is the most copied Style of the big name prog bands.ie:ELP,Yes,Genesis ? |
Replies:
Posted By: frenchie
Date Posted: March 22 2005 at 14:16
------------- The Worthless Recluse 
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Posted By: Reed Lover
Date Posted: March 22 2005 at 14:16
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ELP most definitely-I mean they virtually invented elevator music didnt they? Actually Yes probably. I can hear Yes' influence in the modern prog-metal bands,and certainly Rush,Styx and Starcastle have increasing degrees of Yes influence. ------------- 
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Zero the hero wrote:Posted By: Zero the hero
Date Posted: March 22 2005 at 14:19
Yes i agree that Marillion are an excellent band within the Genesis style. |
Posted By: Swinton MCR
Date Posted: March 22 2005 at 14:41
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The big one is ELP/Triumvirat.........I never did get the Starcastle/Yes link but then I've only heard starcastle once about 7 years ago.... ------------- Play me my song, here it comes again |
Posted By: Logos
Date Posted: March 22 2005 at 15:35
And the V cover is very, very similar to DT's Awake-cover. But it's also similar to Spock's Beard's V. I don't know who copied from whom, but it's pretty obvious that both SX and Spock's Beard took the idea from the Awake cover. |
Posted By: Certif1ed
Date Posted: March 22 2005 at 15:50
While I agree that Marillion are an excellent band, I wouldn't go looking for similarities with Genesis, as they are very few and far between. In fact, the sound is nothing like Genesis - the only similarities I can think of is that Fish used to paint his face, and they once covered "I Know What I Like (In Your Wardrobe) - but they never released that or any other cover. I would say that Marillion's sound with Fish was unique. In fact, I truly believe that people get them mixed up with IQ, who did initially sound remarkably similar to early Genesis.
Dream Theater copy riffs outright from Metallica |
Posted By: lunaticviolist
Date Posted: March 22 2005 at 15:53
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I'd have to say ELP. Emerson basically made the synthesizer an acceptable instrument. Yes were highly influential too. ------------- My recent purchases: 
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Posted By: Vibrationbaby
Date Posted: March 22 2005 at 15:53
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Posted By: Metropolis
Date Posted: March 22 2005 at 16:04
Except that they don't actually sound like Dream Theater  And chances are that they didnt actually design their own cover art------------- We Lost the Skyline............ 
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Posted By: Yams
Date Posted: March 22 2005 at 16:12
| Yes and ELP because in some ways it's an easier sound to reproduce than something like the second era of King Crimson. |
Posted By: alan_pfeifer
Date Posted: March 22 2005 at 16:54
| The Flower Kings always remind me of Yes. |
Posted By: richardh
Date Posted: March 22 2005 at 17:26
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Yes and Genesis are the most copied bands.ELP had their seventies 'clone' Trimuvirat but very few bands have tried to copy their format of drums,keyboards,bass and NO lead guitar.UK did it for one album (Danger Money) and latterly Arsnova have the same format although both bands steered away from being ELP copycats and had or have their own style. I would say the most cribbed peice of music is Genesis 'Squonk'.I hear that a lot in modern (post 1980) prog. |
Posted By: valravennz
Date Posted: March 22 2005 at 17:33
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Some of Glass Hammer and Spock's Beard remind me of Yes. ------------- 
"Music is the Wine that fills the cup of Silence" - Robert Fripp |
Posted By: maani
Date Posted: March 22 2005 at 17:46
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I'm surprised at what I'm hearing. If I had to name the band whose influence I hear more broadly than any other in more neo-prog and neo-neo-prog - including prog metal, and including non-english-speaking prog - there is absolutely no question it is Pink Floyd. Sure, there is broad influence from Genesis, Yes, Moody Blues, King Crimson, ELP, and even Gentle Giant (more than most people know, especially in non-english-speaking prog). But Pink Floyd remains without question the broadest influence in the broadest number, and even types, of bands. I hear it in bands as disparate as Marillion, The Church, Porcupine Tree, Opeth, Dream Theater, Spock's Beard, Ayreon, IQ, Pendragon, Arena - I could go on and on. Peace. |
Posted By: Aaron
Date Posted: March 22 2005 at 17:46
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good thing Star Castle hasnt been mentioned yet, i actually like them quite a bit i kind of think they have their own sound, similarities to Yes, but a clone, i dont think so I actually think their similarities are a combination of old Yes and new Yes (Ladder album) Aaron |
Posted By: valravennz
Date Posted: March 22 2005 at 17:58
Actually come to think of it - I would have to agree to some extent with what you have said. As I reply, I am listening to Porcupine Tree who do have some Pink Floyd in there as well as "Grunge". Ayreon is most notably Pink Floyd influenced ( I read where he would love to have David Gilmour participate in one of his projects!). Pink Floyd's influence is far ranging but then so is Yes. How about a 50/50 split -------------
"Music is the Wine that fills the cup of Silence" - Robert Fripp |
Posted By: Zero the hero
Date Posted: March 22 2005 at 18:04
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While were on the subject of Pink Floyd.Don't we all love the scissors sisters for totally destroying a perfectly good Floyd track. |
Posted By: The Barbarian
Date Posted: March 22 2005 at 18:10
if ELP make elevator music then i sure would like to be stuck in elevators quite often. The one thing about ELP is that boring is not a word you would most likely use about them.Starcastle are a better band than Yes ever where at least starcaslte write tunes.. ------------- Welcome my friends |
Posted By: Dick Heath
Date Posted: March 22 2005 at 18:17
I'm surprised. I first heard Starcastle by accident on BBC Radio Teesside in 1977 or 78, turning on in the middle of one of their tunes (first album?). Having never heard the band before and having somewhat lost it with Yes, I really thought with dodgy radio reception I was listening to something from the latest Yes album and thought this was Yes back to the pre-Topoceans period. However, the vocalist was not quite Anderson - however, with the likes of Dylan and his motor cycle accident and subsequent voice change, you get to wonder.......but the rest seemed very Yes-like. Probably my first acquaintance with a prog band clone. However, by Real To Reel Starcastle had to started to move away from sounding too Yes, but the soft rock of some of that album's tunes, had me (then please note) thinking of the pop rock of Bad Company 
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Posted By: valravennz
Date Posted: March 22 2005 at 18:19
Errrm... (cringing) - I actually don't think it's that bad. Pink Floyd quite up-beat - it's a pleasant change. However, The Scissors Sisters are "off this planet" and I like their weirdness -------------
"Music is the Wine that fills the cup of Silence" - Robert Fripp |
Posted By: valravennz
Date Posted: March 22 2005 at 18:25
Hey there Metropolis - For some reason I hear some Pearl Jam - thinking of tracks such as "Even Less" "She's Moved On" "The Sound of Muzak - I will admit I am new to Porcupine Tree and I like what I hear. BTW can you recommend one or two particular albums of theirs as "must have"? -------------
"Music is the Wine that fills the cup of Silence" - Robert Fripp |
Posted By: Metropolis
Date Posted: March 22 2005 at 18:26
Where's the grunge, seriously, what album you listening to, I have them all and can't hear "Grunge" in any of them ------------- We Lost the Skyline............
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Posted By: frenchie
Date Posted: March 22 2005 at 19:02
oh god i agree... go onto google and search for "you destroyed pink floyd" and it shpuld come with an article about a banner that sl*gged off the scissor sisters. this was your very own local prog forum member... FRENCHIE(me)!!! Since i was going to V festival 2004 i took a huge banner that said YOU DESTROYED PINK FLOYD. and the scissor sisters saw it! some angry fan tore it down and then the lead singer woman picked it up and made a dress out of it i think, she said something like that on the radio and on this article on google. the article has one disturbing incorrect fact though. scissor sisters say, "that fan put down the sign to dance".... the truth is it was torn down... and i certainly wouldnt dance to that sh*te music. i cant even "dance" let alone dance! thats my claim to fame anyway. as for their cover of comfortably numb, i safely label it GOD DAMN ATROCIOUS! they are the kind of band that take a good song and destroy it, kind of like a remix. for another atrocious pink floyd cover, check out korns another brick in the wall. they actually merged all 3 parts together even though they arent meant to be played one after the other... well they SAY they merged all 3 tracks together. the track is called "Another Brick in the Wall (parts 1 - 3)" but it is acutally ABITW parts 1 and 2, with goodbye cruel world tagged onto the end. THEY SCREWED THAT UP BIG TIME. bands like SS and KoRn shouldn't be allowed to butcher such classics. Next we'll have Anal c**t taking on the whole of echoes, in a 23 second song rather than 23 minutes! ------------- The Worthless Recluse
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Posted By: Dick Heath
Date Posted: March 22 2005 at 19:31
I've got/heard 7 Porcupine Tree albums, and perhaps the earlier you go back more the Floyd can be heard - but grunge???????????????????????? My reference point for grunge is Nirvana (the Seattle one, not the psychedelic Uk one), tell me where to listen? |
Posted By: Zero the hero
Date Posted: March 22 2005 at 19:44
I guess you'll do for me frenchie. |
Posted By: Ivan_Melgar_M
Date Posted: March 22 2005 at 20:08
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Marillion, Pendragon, IQ, Rael and 90% of Neo Prog' are heavily influenced by Genesis. Iván ------------- 
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Posted By: greenback
Date Posted: March 22 2005 at 20:43
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citizen cain is strongly inspired from scripts from a jester's tear ------------- [HEADPINS - LINE OF FIRE: THE RECORD HAVING THE MOST POWERFUL GUITAR SOUND IN THE WHOLE HISTORY OF MUSIC!> |
Posted By: valravennz
Date Posted: March 22 2005 at 21:50
Hiya - Yep "Grunge" is associated with Nirvana (Seattle). Other bands included Pearl Jam, Alice in Chains, Mother Love Bone all out of that area. I used the term "Grunge" as that is the label given to those bands. I noticed that some cords used reminded me of some Pearl Jam and Alice in Chains - Listen to Alice in Chains "Jar of Flies" and Pearl Jam's "Vs". I refer now specifically to Porcupine Tree's "The sound of muzak" and "waiting phase one". Not for one minute would I label Porcupine Tree a "Grunge" band, but to my ears, there is some influence there - the more melodic parts of grunge. I personally never cared for Nirvana's music. Alice in Chains and Pearl Jam were IMHO the only groups that were worth listening to. -------------
"Music is the Wine that fills the cup of Silence" - Robert Fripp |
Posted By: Cygnus X-2
Date Posted: March 22 2005 at 23:31
don't forget that Neil Young had a very grungy sound in the 80's if I'm not mistaken. ------------- 
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Posted By: threefates
Date Posted: March 23 2005 at 00:02
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Magenta has a Yes sound, Mostly Autumn's Brian Josh and Marillion's Steve Rothery both admit to being influenced by David Gilmour. Ars Nova doesn't remind me that much of ELP, but the other Japanese band "Social Tension" do. IQ may have moved away from their benefactor Genesis in studio sound, but their stage show is still Genesis derivative.. ------------- THIS IS ELP 
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Posted By: Certif1ed
Date Posted: March 23 2005 at 03:00
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Early Yes were strongly influenced by Crosby, Stills, Nash and Young and the Beatles. They also did a Ritchie Havens cover, IIRC. ELP copied as many classical composers as they could Just about every other non-metal prog band these days copy Radiohead to some extent. You can hear this in (non-Fish) Marillion and Porcupine Tree very clearly. And I agree with maani - the influence of Pink Floyd is incredibly strong on a huge number of bands. Eloy blended the Floyd sound with Hawkwind's riff styling. And the Scissor Sisters are repellent - especially for the mutilation of Pink Floyd - kudos, Frenchie!! |
Posted By: Paco Fox
Date Posted: March 23 2005 at 03:21
I agree. An not only prog: that 'post-rock' thing, which has been the 'hype' minority genre for the last years is just an extension of the Pink Floyd legacy mixed up with modern technology. Incidentally, I've always found PF a bit boring, while post rock stikes me just as utterly boring. |
Posted By: valravennz
Date Posted: March 23 2005 at 03:52
Hi there - Yes he did. He took that as far as collaborating with Pearl Jam on tour and in the studio. "Mirror Ball" was released in 1995 using Pearl Jam as back-up group. Eddie Vedder contributed further by writing the lyrics to the track "Peace and Love". Btw I personally think that "Mirror Ball" is highly underated by critics. It is one of my favourite Neil Young recordings. Cheers -------------
"Music is the Wine that fills the cup of Silence" - Robert Fripp |
Posted By: Metropolis
Date Posted: March 23 2005 at 06:22
Sky Moves Sideways is number 1, then its a toss up between Signify and In Absentia for me, i also highly recommend their live album, Coma Divine, recorded on the Signify tour, great versions of many of their best songs. ------------- We Lost the Skyline............
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Posted By: threefates
Date Posted: March 23 2005 at 07:59
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I actually prefer "In Absentia". ------------- THIS IS ELP
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Posted By: Tarkustra
Date Posted: March 23 2005 at 08:21
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Others that are not necessary clones, but pretty heavily influenced by Keith Emerson are Par Lindh, Latte E Miele, a couple of US bands like Mastermind, Cairo, Monolith, Under the Sun, Tempest, a band from Norway called Kenneth, and as 3fates mentioned, Social Tension as well as Ars Nova from Japan. ------------- When you speak, is it you that hears? Are your ears full? You can't hear anything at all. |
Posted By: hdfisch
Date Posted: March 23 2005 at 10:30
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Posted By: Jim Prog Wizard
Date Posted: March 23 2005 at 13:53
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I'd say Pink Floyd and Dream Theater are the most copied bands in prog. Floyd have been ripped off by everyone from Porcupine Tree* to the Cooper Temple Clause. The only prog-metal bands I've heard who aren't DT rip-offs are Ark and PoS. And Devin Townsend, but I'm not sure exactly what I'd class him as. *I should make it clear that I think PT are amazing, but some of their stuff (especially the early work) is straight out of the book of Floyd. There's a riff in Voyage 34 (Phase 1) which is right out of The Wall ------------- "Progressive Rock is the ultimate form of music" (Mikael Akerfeldt, 2003) |
Posted By: arkitek
Date Posted: March 23 2005 at 16:02
Does it matter about who copied the artwork, i know it may look good but you buy the album for the music not what is on the cover. Spock's Beard, Symphony X and Dream Theater are all brilliant and so what if SX create suimilar music to DT it is still good and is theirs they didn't copy the music they copied the style (Prog Metal) but then you can say DT copied their style of another band (can't think of one at the mo but you get my drift |
Posted By: Certif1ed
Date Posted: March 23 2005 at 16:43
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How about Metallica? Yes? ....
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Posted By: valravennz
Date Posted: March 23 2005 at 16:58
You are kidding aren't you???? Metallic influenced by Yes??? Where,what how??? -------------
"Music is the Wine that fills the cup of Silence" - Robert Fripp |
Posted By: Reed Lover
Date Posted: March 23 2005 at 17:00
Course they were inluenced by Yes! "Yes,you can make a fortune by peddling this over-bearing,thrash metal tripe!" -------------
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Posted By: valravennz
Date Posted: March 23 2005 at 17:01
Hmmm - my glasses must be fogging up -------------
"Music is the Wine that fills the cup of Silence" - Robert Fripp |
Posted By: valravennz
Date Posted: March 23 2005 at 17:02
Hehehe - I really like that comment -------------
"Music is the Wine that fills the cup of Silence" - Robert Fripp |
Posted By: Certif1ed
Date Posted: March 24 2005 at 03:18
Ever so slightly? Ever heard "Images and Words"? DT don't just imitate slighty on that album, they re-use complete Metallica riffs!! |
Posted By: arkitek
Date Posted: March 24 2005 at 03:52
i think you got that the wrong way round mate |
Posted By: Metropolis
Date Posted: March 24 2005 at 06:31
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But metallica STOPPED making good music the same year that DT STARTED
making good music, how could DT have possibly influenced them?
------------- We Lost the Skyline............
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Posted By: valravennz
Date Posted: March 24 2005 at 06:53
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Slight confusion here - I have to take on Metropolis argument that Metallica have influenced DT and make reference to Certif1ed comments. I will have to have another good listen to that track "Images and Words". Strangely enough I have not thought to hard about this angle but will make some effort to do so -------------
"Music is the Wine that fills the cup of Silence" - Robert Fripp |
Posted By: Metropolis
Date Posted: March 24 2005 at 07:07
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I personally dont get the whole DT ripping off Metallica thing either, but I guess I'm biased
------------- We Lost the Skyline............
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Posted By: Metropolis
Date Posted: March 24 2005 at 07:08
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Although i do have to say that there is a riff somewhere on Train of Thought taken directly from the track Noose off Burn the Sun by Ark (i think its in This Dying Soul)
------------- We Lost the Skyline............
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Posted By: Certif1ed
Date Posted: March 24 2005 at 08:23
| Read my review of Images and Words - I pinpointed a few riffs that DT used verbatim from Metallica albums before the Black Album (their last decent one, although it was nowhere near the high standard of the first 4). |
Posted By: Jim Prog Wizard
Date Posted: March 27 2005 at 10:11
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I know that DT are undoubtadly influenced by Metallica, but then DT are a considerably better band than Metallica ever were. And no, I don't just mean better musicians, a mean a better BAND. Songwriting, performance, consistency, the whole shebang. ------------- "Progressive Rock is the ultimate form of music" (Mikael Akerfeldt, 2003) |
Posted By: frenchie
Date Posted: March 27 2005 at 11:15
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eternity x are DT copycats too, on the mp3 i downloaded there was a riff that was a direct copy from part of overture 1928. im pretty sure EX came out after too and osund inspired by em. ------------- The Worthless Recluse
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Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: March 27 2005 at 12:56
| the first 8 or so bars of ALQUIN's extremely impressive "The Mountain Queen" Lp sound exactly like Yes' Yours Is no Disgrace, but there the similarity ends and it morphs into a very original, and individual proggy LP. |
Posted By: goose
Date Posted: March 27 2005 at 14:09
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They've only released one album since Scenes. Obviously I don't know which track you've heard but all the Eternity X I've listened to sounds far too '80s to sound like Dream Theater (I was quite surprised just now to find out they've only been around since the early '90s, actually). Re DT/Metallica, I can hear it on Images and Words, but nothing since then really. |
Posted By: arkitek
Date Posted: March 27 2005 at 14:38
to be totally honest i am not really that bothered who copied who Metallica make good music, DT make good music simple as....
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Posted By: Certif1ed
Date Posted: March 27 2005 at 17:19
I guess it's taste - but I completely and utterly disagree with that - Metallica's early songwriting was amazing, their performances were blistering - and as for consistency, Metallica NEVER wrote anything less than awesome for the first 3 albums, then went a bit eccentric (but DT liked it enough to actually copy the riffs - not be inspired by, but use the same riffs). What they did from 1991 onwards is unforgiven... |
Posted By: frenchie
Date Posted: March 27 2005 at 19:43
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i feel like the only one to notice... ------------- The Worthless Recluse
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Posted By: frenchie
Date Posted: March 28 2005 at 09:37
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cmon people! help me out here! ------------- The Worthless Recluse
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Posted By: Arsillus
Date Posted: March 28 2005 at 09:40
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. DT originally put their band logo in every studio album cover and then SX did it too.
And how does that affect the music? How does putting your band name/logo on every album cover make you a DT clone? Explain. Matt |
Posted By: frenchie
Date Posted: March 28 2005 at 09:45
no i just think they have blatently taken DT as more than just an influence, they are just an even more dramatic and mythologic version of dream theater. not only do they copy their sound and style but they also copy artwork ideas and stuff! not helping out their case! i dont like that about SX but if you read any of my reviews i gave SX good reviews! i like them musically, i am not even bothered about the similarities cos they are a good band! ------------- The Worthless Recluse
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Posted By: The Owl
Date Posted: March 28 2005 at 10:48
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Cloneage is bound to happen alright: YES spawned Starcastle and Atlantide as just 2 examples ELP spawned Triumvarat and The Load as just 2 examples, others under the influence include Ars Nova, Gerard, Kenso GENESIS spawned Babylon, The Watch, Marillion and Ange as just a few examples
------------- People are puzzled why I don't dig the Stones, well, I listened to the Stones, I tried, and I tried, and I tried, and--I Can't Get No Satisfaction! www.myspace.com/theowlsmusic |
Posted By: Metropolis
Date Posted: March 28 2005 at 12:12
I agree with you in that the art work doesnt make you a clone, but why does everyone believe that DT put their band logo on every studio album cover, it just isnt true, I am HOLDING Falling into Infinity ans it sure as hell does NOT have the DT band logo on the cover ------------- We Lost the Skyline............
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Posted By: frenchie
Date Posted: March 28 2005 at 13:38
hehe he found it now! its faint!  ------------- The Worthless Recluse
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Posted By: Metropolis
Date Posted: March 28 2005 at 13:40
Seriously i could barely make that out, i dont think that counts
------------- We Lost the Skyline............
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Posted By: frenchie
Date Posted: March 28 2005 at 13:52
lol it does! i could see it perfectly! ------------- The Worthless Recluse
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Posted By: Metropolis
Date Posted: March 28 2005 at 14:02
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Hmm, on my copy its barely visible
------------- We Lost the Skyline............
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Posted By: frenchie
Date Posted: March 28 2005 at 15:34
so am i if i turn sideways, you said it yourself, i'm a skinny c**t! ------------- The Worthless Recluse
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Posted By: valravennz
Date Posted: March 28 2005 at 17:18
Yes - I can hear KC "21st Century ..." in that intro. But not so dramatically that I would call it a major influence. It's only that you point it out that I noticed. -------------
"Music is the Wine that fills the cup of Silence" - Robert Fripp |
Posted By: frenchie
Date Posted: March 28 2005 at 18:18
thanks, thought i was the only one, i doubt it is influenced or blagged from master fripp, just sounds dead similar thats all. ------------- The Worthless Recluse
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Posted By: Ben2112
Date Posted: March 28 2005 at 19:26
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frenchie: never noticed before but you're right; I hear a possible influence there. Although HOTS is more of a bass riff and 21st is more guitar, but it is similar. Which might explain why Heart Of The Sunrise is one of my all-time favorite songs, and definitely my fave Yes song. |