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Journey - prog related?

Printed From: Progarchives.com
Category: Progressive Music Lounges
Forum Name: Suggest New Bands and Artists
Forum Description: Suggest, create polls, and classify new bands you would like included on Prog Archives
URL: http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=44693
Printed Date: February 22 2025 at 16:36
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Topic: Journey - prog related?
Posted By: Guests
Subject: Journey - prog related?
Date Posted: December 21 2007 at 17:44
They're first albums can prove that they are - although they never stoped using prog elements. Comments?



Replies:
Posted By: erik neuteboom
Date Posted: December 21 2007 at 17:49
My thoughts: http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=44126 - http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=44126
 
My conclusion: early era Heavy Prog, later Prog -related.


Posted By: Logan
Date Posted: December 21 2007 at 17:58
Yes, Journey is related to Prog, but not seen by some as closely enough related for Prog Related, or shall I say unsuitable?  Controversial for sure.  I know that their first album is considered Prog by many, but it being a seminal AOR band, and an exapmle of Arena Rock, it's frowned upon.  Sure there are examples of AOR and Arena Rock bands in the archives, but each one on a case by case basis.  I haven't heard the debut album, but it is said that just having one Prog album is enough for inclusion in a Prog category.

Incidentally, this poll will be moved since Prog polls is intended "Prog" bands in the archives. 

Incidentally, check out these topics: forum_posts.asp?TID=21738&KW=Journey - Journey poll
forum_posts.asp?TID=13156&KW=Journey - Boston/Journey
forum_posts.asp?TID=5288&KW=Journey - JOURNEY, yes Journey!
forum_posts.asp?TID=3219&KW=Journey - JOURNEY debut, what???
forum_posts.asp?TID=20384&KW=Journey - Kansas/Journey Oddity

Prog related to my knowledge, but there are worries that it may set a precedent (or did bands like Styx already do that?)


Posted By: crimhead
Date Posted: December 21 2007 at 18:00
I would say that their first 3 albums were prog. I got to see them open for ELP on the Brain Salad tour in Long Beach Ca. They were a great band at that time but they never got any radio play. 


Posted By: erik neuteboom
Date Posted: December 21 2007 at 18:08

Logan, there are always a lot of worries because the band addition policy on Prog Archives is not really consequent and quite open for discussions which means that one proghead is delighted about Talk Talk and JM Jarre while the other begs for Jimi Hendrix or The Stranglers and only an objective Prog Archives Inquisition can judge about that! About Journey, in the line-up without Steve Perry they have made a few albums that are way more interesting in terms of progressive ideas than the ones of bands that are already added to Prog Archives, if you like I will give you at least 10 bands for example... Wink!



Posted By: Logan
Date Posted: December 21 2007 at 18:10
^What a  great concert that would have been, Crimhead!

I'm not that familiar with Journey beyond the very "commercial" stage (not that Prog couldn't be very commercial and popular, obviously -- see mention of ELP above), but there is a strong bias here against the band, so I hope this helps in perhaps re-evaluating the band for potential inclusion.


Posted By: Logan
Date Posted: December 21 2007 at 18:55
Erik, posted the above before seeing your post. Yes, indeed.  Personally, I'd be happy with both Jarre and Jimi Hendrix in the archives, and though I may not know Journey that well, I think I could think of a number of examples of bands that are not only very questionably Prog, but are not progressive.

Prog really is in the ear of the behearer to quite an extent (beyond certain widely accepted bands that were part of the Progressive Rock movement).  I expect with Journey that this is one of those bands where many people have formed fairly unshakable opinions about what they are and where they fit; whereas, like many bands, they played different styles of music/ traversed different genres.


Posted By: Teh_Slippermenz
Date Posted: December 21 2007 at 19:25
Yes. If one were to judge them on their first album alone, they'd fit nicely in the Jazz-Rock/Fusion section.


Posted By: ProgBagel
Date Posted: December 21 2007 at 19:40
Above average rock band doesn't not equal prog. A lot of bands seem to be getting away with that.


Posted By: ES335
Date Posted: December 21 2007 at 20:52
I know htis may be a silly question that has been gone over many times with different bands, but why can't pre-Steve Perry Journey albums be listed in the archives, and post-Simpering Asshat I mean Steve Perry albums not be included?
 
The answer to this will probably save me the trouble of asking why none of Miles Davis fusion-era recordings are in the 20 recommended fusion albums even though a significant number of those recordings feature members of Miles Davis' fusion era bands.


Posted By: bhikkhu
Date Posted: December 21 2007 at 22:16
Why don't we just add every big rock band from the '70s, and be done with it.

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a.k.a. H.T.

http://riekels.wordpress.com" rel="nofollow - http://riekels.wordpress.com


Posted By: akiko
Date Posted: December 21 2007 at 22:52
I have to say Journey's self titled debut and Look Into the Future are two of my favorite fusion records of all time.


Posted By: Yorkie X
Date Posted: December 21 2007 at 23:13
Journey are as prog related as any prog related band gets  ... very high caliber musicianship ... with lots of the tripe thats been added Journey may just restore some credibility to whats prog related


Posted By: ES335
Date Posted: December 22 2007 at 00:05
I really don't see the problem. I mean c'mon, worse case scenario: the place is overrun with soccer moms starting  "Open Arms vs Who's Crying Now" polls. Sure it would be a drag, but let's face it, this place is kinda a sausagefest, so there would be some good even in the worst case scenario.


Posted By: Shakespeare
Date Posted: December 22 2007 at 00:24
Technically speaking, every single rock or even pop band are in some way related to prog.

I would go so far as to say EVERY band ever is in a very distant way related.


Posted By: Anonymous
Date Posted: December 22 2007 at 00:30
according to the guidelines of this website, it seems like you are right Shakespeare.  Any band that is relatively lauded by "respected" music fans seems to appear on progarchives. Is Zeppelin really prog? And the Beatles?
 
I think progressive rock is a little bit selfish...but thats its appeal


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In my town, there is a raincoat under a tree
In the sky there is a cloud containing the sea
In the sea there is a whale without any eyes
In the whale there is a man without his raincoat.


Posted By: Ivan_Melgar_M
Date Posted: December 22 2007 at 00:36
Originally posted by bhikkhu bhikkhu wrote:

Why don't we just add every big rock band from the '70s, and be done with it.
 
ClapClapClap
 
Shouldn't people use the search button and find if a band has been discuussed before?
 
Already Aeternus has started threads about Toto and Journey, this bands have been discussed repeatedly and the answer was always NO.
 
Iván


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Posted By: Atavachron
Date Posted: December 22 2007 at 00:38
Originally posted by Anonymous Anonymous wrote:

Any band that is relatively lauded by "respected" music fans seems to appear on progarchives. Is Zeppelin really prog? And the Beatles?
 


no, the Beatles influenced Prog [ProtoProg], Zeppelin were influenced by it [ProgRelated]

the HeavyProg team discussed Journey's addition and, after listening to the earlier and proggier albums, decided against it





Posted By: erik neuteboom
Date Posted: December 22 2007 at 07:31

Well Atavachron, about early Journey, it's a matter of taste and opinion: lots of posters show their appreciation for early Journey and notice sufficient progressive elements for an addition but the Heavy Prog team doesn't, if I was in the Heavy Prog or Prog Related team with some positive posters, early Journey would have been on Prog Archives very soon, it's that simple how it works here on Prog Archives.

And I know many progheads who prefer early Journey here on Prog Archives rather than The Beatles.



Posted By: markosherrera
Date Posted: December 22 2007 at 07:38
The albums before Perry =progrelated


Posted By: markosherrera
Date Posted: December 22 2007 at 07:42

A new genre...=not prog with one or two albums prog or some prog songs



Posted By: Sean Trane
Date Posted: December 22 2007 at 07:57
Originally posted by Ivan_Melgar_M Ivan_Melgar_M wrote:

Originally posted by bhikkhu bhikkhu wrote:

Why don't we just add every big rock band from the '70s, and be done with it.
 
ClapClapClap
 
Shouldn't people use the search button and find if a band has been discuussed before?
 
Already Aeternus has started threads about Toto and Journey, this bands have been discussed repeatedly and the answer was always NO.
 
Iván
 
 
Well one year ago, I would've said no to jpourney in PR, but since Zep's inclusion, I can't find a solid reason why they shouyldn't be in in regards to their first tyhree albums. Plus Rollie & Schon are both linked to Santana and Dunbar to Frank Zappa.
 
Toto, however, please no. Good musicianship but never a prog album. Ditto for Boston and REO Speedwagon and other AOR group.... Thumbs%20Down


-------------
let's just stay above the moral melee
prefer the sink to the gutter
keep our sand-castle virtues
content to be a doer
as well as a thinker,
prefer lifting our pen
rather than un-sheath our sword


Posted By: Ivan_Melgar_M
Date Posted: December 22 2007 at 11:50
Originally posted by Sean Trane Sean Trane wrote:

 
 
Well one year ago, I would've said no to jpourney in PR, but since Zep's inclusion, I can't find a solid reason why they shouyldn't be in in regards to their first tyhree albums. Plus Rollie & Schon are both linked to Santana and Dunbar to Frank Zappa.
 
 
Sean, a mistake doesn't justify another one, Journey is not Prog or Prog Related, it was not a year ago and obviously since they released no Prog album in last year, the answer should be the same.
 
BTW: The personal relation doesn't justify the inclusion of a band, as the definfinition clearly states:
 
Quote

Prog Related

Progressive rock is not a separate universe in music, it’s a genre among many others, a voice in the chorus and as part of a biggest scenario has points of contact with other musical genres.

Prog Related is the category that groups bands and artists that:

- Without being 100% Prog, received clear MUSICAL influence of this genre, OR

- Are widely accepted as MUSICALLY influential to the development of Progressive Rock by the community, OR

- Blend characteristics of Progressive Rock with mainstream elements creating a final product that despite not being part of the genre is evident that are close to Prog.

We specify the word MUSICAL because simple performance of a determined instrument in a Prog or mainstream band is not justification enough to include an artist, no matter how virtuoso he/she may be, Prog Archives has to evaluate their compositional work because the music is what determines the characteristics of a band or an artist.

Prog Related bands are not considered part of the genre but they have contributed in some form in the development of Progressive Rock, the inclusion of a band is exceptional and only after verifying that it’s a contribution for the better understanding of Prog among the members and visitors instead of a source of confusion for the community.

The text is clear, you need more than just being part of  a Prog or Prog Related band.
 
Iván


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Posted By: Sean Trane
Date Posted: December 22 2007 at 12:50
Originally posted by Ivan_Melgar_M Ivan_Melgar_M wrote:

Originally posted by Sean Trane Sean Trane wrote:

 
 
Well one year ago, I would've said no to jpourney in PR, but since Zep's inclusion, I can't find a solid reason why they shouyldn't be in in regards to their first tyhree albums. Plus Rollie & Schon are both linked to Santana and Dunbar to Frank Zappa.
 
 
Sean, a mistake doesn't justify another one, Journey is not Prog or Prog Related, it was not a year ago and obviously since they released no Prog album in last year, the answer should be the same.
 
BTW: The personal relation doesn't justify the inclusion of a band, as the definfinition clearly states:
 
The text is clear, you need more than just being part of  a Prog or Prog Related band.
 
Iván
 
Ivàn,
 
I wouldn't call it Zep's inclusion a mistake or an error.
 
I was against Zep in PA, like a bunch of us, but mailto:M@X - M@X decided to go for it, therefore it was a new direction given to prog-related.and he decided after a careful weighing of pro and cons. I have stated that to me, Zep's inclusion changed almost everything in prog related and opened the door to
 
Just as I don't call Deep Purple prog, they were included for their first three albums and the concerto, into proto prog. And the inclusion of The Who in Proto because of one mini-opera suite......  >> both groups would simply fit better in prog related.
 
 
The reason why I brought on Purple is because of their inclusion because of the first three albums. Journey fits exactly that criteria and betters their case over Pu^ple by having members of the group that were in bands that are already on site >>> this is not Purple's case.
 
 
If you are to listen to their  debut and Look Into The Future, you'll have no problems realizing that at least those two albums are much proggier than say Kansas' TPONR or Masque. I am less familiar with Next (their third) but everyone agrees that it's still prog enough.
 
They were actually forced into tking the unsufferable Steve Perry into their group by their very owxn label or loose their recording contract, thus prompting Dunbar to leave after one Perry-era album and Rollie after two more. They became the kings of AOR , but then again DP and Zep became the kings of hard rock and Sab the king of metal. All these groups are now in, there is little to say Journey shouldn't especially listening to their first three albums.
 
 
 
BTW, I literally loath the Perry-era Journey, so this is no petiseb 
 


-------------
let's just stay above the moral melee
prefer the sink to the gutter
keep our sand-castle virtues
content to be a doer
as well as a thinker,
prefer lifting our pen
rather than un-sheath our sword


Posted By: Logan
Date Posted: December 22 2007 at 13:07
Originally posted by Shakespeare Shakespeare wrote:

Technically speaking, every single rock or even pop band are in some way related to prog.

I would go so far as to say EVERY band ever is in a very distant way related.


Yes, as i sometimes like to say, of course they're related, it just depends on how close the relation is (sibling, father, uncle, cousin, second cousin, grandparent, great grandparent)  It forms a Prog family tree.

Incidentally, for people who are familiar with " http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Six_Degrees_of_Kevin_Bacon - Six degrees of Kevin Bacon ," I've wanted to see something similar done with Prog (though it would have to be done by group).  A really detailed musical family tree would be better though (seen some decent Prog, Prog Related, and Related to Prog Related ones --though not termed that way, but...).


Posted By: Mandrakeroot
Date Posted: December 22 2007 at 13:12
Originally posted by Sean Trane Sean Trane wrote:

Originally posted by Ivan_Melgar_M Ivan_Melgar_M wrote:

Originally posted by Sean Trane Sean Trane wrote:

 
 
Well one year ago, I would've said no to jpourney in PR, but since Zep's inclusion, I can't find a solid reason why they shouyldn't be in in regards to their first tyhree albums. Plus Rollie & Schon are both linked to Santana and Dunbar to Frank Zappa.
 
 
Sean, a mistake doesn't justify another one, Journey is not Prog or Prog Related, it was not a year ago and obviously since they released no Prog album in last year, the answer should be the same.
 
BTW: The personal relation doesn't justify the inclusion of a band, as the definfinition clearly states:
 
The text is clear, you need more than just being part of  a Prog or Prog Related band.
 
Iván
 
Ivàn,
 
I wouldn't call it Zep's inclusion a mistake or an error.
 
I was against Zep in PA, like a bunch of us, but mailto:M@X - M@X decided to go for it, therefore it was a new direction given to prog-related.and he decided after a careful weighing of pro and cons. I have stated that to me, Zep's inclusion changed almost everything in prog related and opened the door to
 
Just as I don't call Deep Purple prog, they were included for their first three albums and the concerto, into proto prog. And the inclusion of The Who in Proto because of one mini-opera suite......  >> both groups would simply fit better in prog related.
 
 
The reason why I brought on Purple is because of their inclusion because of the first three albums. Journey fits exactly that criteria and betters their case over Pu^ple by having members of the group that were in bands that are already on site >>> this is not Purple's case.
 
 
If you are to listen to their  debut and Look Into The Future, you'll have no problems realizing that at least those two albums are much proggier than say Kansas' TPONR or Masque. I am less familiar with Next (their third) but everyone agrees that it's still prog enough.
 
They were actually forced into tking the unsufferable Steve Perry into their group by their very owxn label or loose their recording contract, thus prompting Dunbar to leave after one Perry-era album and Rollie after two more. They became the kings of AOR , but then again DP and Zep became the kings of hard rock and Sab the king of metal. All these groups are now in, there is little to say Journey shouldn't especially listening to their first three albums.
 
 
Thanks, Sean trane. Reasoning very well I cannot that to be all right with you on all the line!


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Posted By: erik neuteboom
Date Posted: December 22 2007 at 16:33

You can make excellent, very clear descriptions of genres but what matters on Prog Archives is the band addition policy and I agree with Sean that the additions of some bands create the possibility for countless Prog-related bands to be added to Prog Archives. From now to at least 2112 this will be a source for heated discussions and disagreements between collaborators here on Prog Archives. Personally I cannot imagine that fellow collaborators judge that Journey should not be here, they deserve to be here in Heavy Prog or at least in Prog-related.  When I visited their concerts in 1978 and 1980 it was because they made Heavy Prog (1978) and Prog-related music (1980) and I still consider those concerts as very interesting prog experiences Thumbs%20Up



Posted By: Atavachron
Date Posted: December 22 2007 at 16:50
Originally posted by erik neuteboom erik neuteboom wrote:

Well Atavachron, about early Journey, it's a matter of taste and opinion: lots of posters show their appreciation for early Journey and notice sufficient progressive elements for an addition but the Heavy Prog team doesn't, if I was in the Heavy Prog or Prog Related team with some positive posters, early Journey would have been on Prog Archives very soon, it's that simple how it works here on Prog Archives.



this is true Erik, but I have to do what I believe is right, just as you do




Posted By: Mandrakeroot
Date Posted: December 23 2007 at 17:43
Originally posted by erik neuteboom erik neuteboom wrote:

You can make excellent, very clear descriptions of genres but what matters on Prog Archives is the band addition policy and I agree with Sean that the additions of some bands create the possibility for countless Prog-related bands to be added to Prog Archives. From now to at least 2112 this will be a source for heated discussions and disagreements between collaborators here on Prog Archives. Personally I cannot imagine that fellow collaborators judge that Journey should not be here, they deserve to be here in Heavy Prog or at least in Prog-related.  When I visited their concerts in 1978 and 1980 it was because they made Heavy Prog (1978) and Prog-related music (1980) and I still consider those concerts as very interesting prog experiences Thumbs%20Up

 
Erik... I think that basically the correct place for Journey is Prog Related. today I've bougth their first album called Journey and a great 2CD collection called Essential (based on AOR period) and I think that Journey is an extreme great inclusion in PA.
 
P.s.: In 1987 I discover Raised on Radio... And I don't know because but to it knew myself of something of Progressive...  But this is insignificant in my judgment! 


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Posted By: Ely78
Date Posted: December 27 2007 at 18:45
For me yes. I've listen to "Journey" with Mandrakeroot and I think that the answer is obvious: yes!!!

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When the love becomes poetry, distant from the eyes

(Quando l'Amore Diventa poesia/ Lontano Dagli occhi [Aphrodite's Child)


Posted By: micky
Date Posted: December 30 2007 at 12:22
Originally posted by Atavachron Atavachron wrote:

Originally posted by erik neuteboom erik neuteboom wrote:

Well Atavachron, about early Journey, it's a matter of taste and opinion: lots of posters show their appreciation for early Journey and notice sufficient progressive elements for an addition but the Heavy Prog team doesn't, if I was in the Heavy Prog or Prog Related team with some positive posters, early Journey would have been on Prog Archives very soon, it's that simple how it works here on Prog Archives.



this is true Erik, but I have to do what I believe is right, just as you do




damn straight...  that is the difference between those who volunteer their time for the site.. .and collaborate on it's behalf.. as opposed to those who choose to stay outside of the system.  We all have opinons... those who chose, and are chosen to colloborate.. have the final say. That is how it works here Erik.


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The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip


Posted By: ghost_of_morphy
Date Posted: January 01 2008 at 12:27
Originally posted by Ivan_Melgar_M Ivan_Melgar_M wrote:

 
Sean, a mistake doesn't justify another one, Journey is not Prog or Prog Related, it was not a year ago and obviously since they released no Prog album in last year, the answer should be the same.
 
BTW: The personal relation doesn't justify the inclusion of a band, as the definfinition clearly states:
 
Quote

Prog Related

Progressive rock is not a separate universe in music, it�s a genre among many others, a voice in the chorus and as part of a biggest scenario has points of contact with other musical genres.

Prog Related is the category that groups bands and artists that:

- Without being 100% Prog, received clear MUSICAL influence of this genre, OR

- Are widely accepted as MUSICALLY influential to the development of Progressive Rock by the community, OR

- Blend characteristics of Progressive Rock with mainstream elements creating a final product that despite not being part of the genre is evident that are close to Prog.

We specify the word MUSICAL because simple performance of a determined instrument in a Prog or mainstream band is not justification enough to include an artist, no matter how virtuoso he/she may be, Prog Archives has to evaluate their compositional work because the music is what determines the characteristics of a band or an artist.

Prog Related bands are not considered part of the genre but they have contributed in some form in the development of Progressive Rock, the inclusion of a band is exceptional and only after verifying that it�s a contribution for the better understanding of Prog among the members and visitors instead of a source of confusion for the community.

The text is clear, you need more than just being part of  a Prog or Prog Related band.
 
Iv�n
 
Unless you are talking about adding Boston, in which case the text doesn't mean what it says any more.


Posted By: Ivan_Melgar_M
Date Posted: January 01 2008 at 12:49
Originally posted by ghost_of_morphy ghost_of_morphy wrote:

 
Unless you are talking about adding Boston, in which case the text doesn't mean what it says any more.
 
Yes it does because of the last parragraph:
 
Prog Related bands are not considered part of the genre but they have contributed in some form in the development of Progressive Rock, the inclusion of a band is exceptional and only after verifying that it's a contribution for the better understanding of Prog among the members and visitors instead of a source of confusion for the community.
 
Boston would be a source of confusion for the community, because it's the most representative band of AOR as most people understand it, traditionally they are considered a POP band with SOME influence fr0om Prog, but as much as from many other genres.
 
Boston is not a contributoion for a better understanding of Prog, by the contrary, i's a source of confusion and of contradiction, because if we added them, we would be forced to add other similar bands like Reo Speedwagon or Eagles, and that would go against the essense of Prog.
 
Iván


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Posted By: Mandrakeroot
Date Posted: January 01 2008 at 12:57
Originally posted by Ivan_Melgar_M Ivan_Melgar_M wrote:

Originally posted by ghost_of_morphy ghost_of_morphy wrote:

 
Unless you are talking about adding Boston, in which case the text doesn't mean what it says any more.
 
Yes it does because of the last parragraph:
 
Prog Related bands are not considered part of the genre but they have contributed in some form in the development of Progressive Rock, the inclusion of a band is exceptional and only after verifying that it's a contribution for the better understanding of Prog among the members and visitors instead of a source of confusion for the community.
 
Boston would be a source of confusion for the community, because it's the most representative band of AOR as most people understand it, traditionally they are considered a POP band with SOME influence fr0om Prog, but as much as from many other genres.
 
Boston is not a contributoion for a better understanding of Prog, by the contrary, i's a source of confusion and of contradiction, because if we added them, we would be forced to add other similar bands like Reo Speedwagon or Eagles, and that would go against the essense of Prog.
 
Iván
 
All true. But I agree with those who say that "Journey" is a Prog album. Even though I do not like to admit that much is an album of a band that deserves to be in PA.


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Posted By: Easy Livin
Date Posted: April 19 2008 at 05:07
I'm not sure if it was ever announced, but Journey have been approved for additon as Prog Related.


Posted By: Sean Trane
Date Posted: April 19 2008 at 07:50
Originally posted by Easy Livin Easy Livin wrote:

I'm not sure if it was ever announced, but Journey have been approved for additon as Prog Related.
 
There was a time when I would've opposed thisbut since the inclusion of Zeppelin in PR of PA, I now can only applaud this on the basis of the first two albums, whichare full-blown prog and until Ainsley Dunbazr (andlater Rollie) left, remained correct.


-------------
let's just stay above the moral melee
prefer the sink to the gutter
keep our sand-castle virtues
content to be a doer
as well as a thinker,
prefer lifting our pen
rather than un-sheath our sword


Posted By: micky
Date Posted: April 19 2008 at 08:33
good deal...  nice to see that approval...Clap

-------------
The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip


Posted By: Cesar Inca
Date Posted: April 19 2008 at 08:45
I wish JOurney hadn't been here, but well, I guess it's some sing of the times. Earlier, Toto was named as an example, but let me tell you that for a non-prog band, Toto handles more prog-like elements than Journey ever did. Boston would be even a bigger disgrace than Journey to be included here... but apparently, Journey has been approved. Consistency and coherence seem not to play a big role in this system of PA inclusion. Zeppelin, Sabbath, Bowie, Talk Talk, Journey,... all of them find a quick road into this lace that is not their home, while other bands who are very genuinely connected to the prog stuff find it slower (lack of sound samples, slow discussions among members, indecisions about labels, overall indifference...). Well, what do I know anyway?
 
     Kind regards.


Posted By: Easy Livin
Date Posted: April 19 2008 at 11:12
As Hugues says, Journey's approval is due to their early albums.


Posted By: Ivan_Melgar_M
Date Posted: April 19 2008 at 11:43
Well, we are slowly moving into a General Rock site.
 
But though they were accepted, I will shut up as always.
 
Iván


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Posted By: Cesar Inca
Date Posted: April 19 2008 at 21:30
Originally posted by Ivan_Melgar_M Ivan_Melgar_M wrote:

Well, we are slowly moving into a General Rock site.
 
 
Arguably, the most accurate observation in this thread!!!
 
    Kind regards.


Posted By: The Rock
Date Posted: April 19 2008 at 23:24

Why don't you people only selec a few key albums per artists in the prog-related category.

A selected discography only for bands such as Iron Maiden,The Beatles,The Who,Zeppelin,Journey,ect...
No one is arguing(at least not me) the influence and importance of albums such as Sgt-Peppers and Magical Mystery tour but do we need to read reviews of A Hard Days Night?
 
Ditto for  Maiden;Somewhere in Time and Powerslave are OK but Killers?!?
 
Sabbath Bloody Sabbath,OK,but Born Again?Not sure.
 
I agree that Journey is NOT  a progressive band,but I can't deny that their first three albums were of prog persuations and even jazz/fusion inclined in parts.But we will eventually end up reading about albums such as Departure and the like.
 
As I say,this rule should only apply to those bands in the prog-related category.


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What's gonna come out of my mouth is gonna come out of my soul."Skip Prokop"


Posted By: stonebeard
Date Posted: April 19 2008 at 23:38
I will never stop believin' Journey is prog. 

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http://soundcloud.com/drewagler" rel="nofollow - My soundcloud. Please give feedback if you want!


Posted By: micky
Date Posted: April 20 2008 at 00:43
Originally posted by stonebeard stonebeard wrote:

I will never stop believin' Journey is prog. 


Open Arms! HugLOL


-------------
The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip


Posted By: Atavachron
Date Posted: April 20 2008 at 01:34
Originally posted by The Rock The Rock wrote:

Ditto for  Maiden;Somewhere in Time and Powerslave are OK but Killers?!?
 


Maiden's first two records were quite progressive for metal at the time, and this lack of historical understanding is what leads to these outbursts




Posted By: Avantgardehead
Date Posted: April 20 2008 at 02:40
Burzum's album "Hvis Lyset Tar Oss" was quite progressive at its time, let's add that!

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http://www.last.fm/user/Avantgardian


Posted By: Atavachron
Date Posted: April 20 2008 at 02:45
ErmmErmm
ErmmErmm



Posted By: Avantgardehead
Date Posted: April 20 2008 at 02:47
Oh come on! It completely redefined what it meant to be black metal! Epic, long songs, ambient tracks, and emphasis on beauty and contemplation rather than childish Satanism and dissonance. Nothing else like it existed back in '94!

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http://www.last.fm/user/Avantgardian


Posted By: stonebeard
Date Posted: April 20 2008 at 02:51
Originally posted by Avantgardehead Avantgardehead wrote:

Oh come on! It completely redefined what it meant to be black metal! Epic, long songs, ambient tracks, and emphasis on beauty and contemplation rather than childish Satanism and dissonance. Nothing else like it existed back in '94!


No, it was childish Norwegian nationalism with Burzum.Tongue


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Posted By: Avantgardehead
Date Posted: April 20 2008 at 02:57
Originally posted by stonebeard stonebeard wrote:


No, it was childish Norwegian nationalism with Burzum.Tongue


Only in the interviews!


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http://www.last.fm/user/Avantgardian


Posted By: stonebeard
Date Posted: April 20 2008 at 02:59
Oh, and the childish church-burning. That was on an album cover. Wink

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Posted By: stonebeard
Date Posted: April 20 2008 at 03:00
Oh, and the childish former bandmate killing. That definitely influenced his music a bit. Clown

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Posted By: Easy Livin
Date Posted: April 20 2008 at 06:44
Journey only here please.Wink


Posted By: The Rock
Date Posted: April 20 2008 at 06:59
Originally posted by Atavachron Atavachron wrote:

Originally posted by The Rock The Rock wrote:

Ditto for  Maiden;Somewhere in Time and Powerslave are OK but Killers?!?
 


Maiden's first two records were quite progressive for metal at the time, and this lack of historical understanding is what leads to these outbursts


 
I have been into music/prog since the late 70's,and save a few tracks(Phantom of the opera,Gengis Khan,ect...) most of those early Maiden albums were/are punk/metal to me.Of course maybe if we put them into context of the early 80's they might sound a bit forward thinking but the same can be said about the Beach Boys' Pet Sounds yet we don'g get to read about them in PA.
 
Anyway,back to the subject of this thread;Journey.
 
 


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What's gonna come out of my mouth is gonna come out of my soul."Skip Prokop"


Posted By: Jim Garten
Date Posted: April 21 2008 at 03:08
Hmmm - another Admin member's post appears to be invisible...

We repeat - this is a thread about Journey.

Thank you.

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Jon Lord 1941 - 2012


Posted By: prog4evr
Date Posted: April 21 2008 at 09:53
Originally posted by markosherrera markosherrera wrote:

The albums before Perry =progrelated
Tama 'yan! (that's right)...


Posted By: rushfan4
Date Posted: April 21 2008 at 23:17
For what little this is worth, other than another post to get my prog-fan card revoked, the bands that I have seen most often in concert are Rush, Yes, and than Journey.    Of course, in the boundaries of Prog Archives that doesn't mean all that much since I tend to prefer the poppier side of prog.  I am of the opinion however, that Journey does belong on Prog Archives because of those first 3 jazz-rock/fusion albums.  After those 3 albums, they demonstrate excellent pop rock/arena-oriented rock tendencies.  There might be some prog tendencies sprinkled throughout, but there is most likely noone who would argue that they were a prog rock band after those first three albums, although I think that their 2 most recent albums might possibly fall weakly under the neo category.  Based on those first 3 albums, quite frankly, Journey could very well be included in the jazz/rock fusion category, but instead, the Admins have chosen to delegate them to Prog-related, most likely because of the remainder of their catalogue.  Doesn't mean that anybody has to like their inclusion, but I personally believe that it is fully justified based on this site's guidelines.  Just my two cents. 

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Posted By: Padraic
Date Posted: April 21 2008 at 23:52
I know a little about early Journey and I have no problem with that material being on this site; one wonders, however, about the policy of a band being "in" here at PA means that their entire catalog is listed....and the inevitable reviews of Steve Perry-era Journey albums on the front page....don't get me wrong, I enjoy Journey (not a hater at all, they're a good band), but the bulk of their career isn't applicable - really just want to question that "all or nothing" policy.  I guess the problem lies in drawing the line, my mind immediately goes to a band like Genesis - which albums would you exclude?  I suppose the argument for "all or nothing" inclusion is to avoid this new set of arguments....

Rambling over.  Embarrassed


Posted By: b_olariu
Date Posted: September 10 2008 at 06:59
So where is Journey added, still working guys????Thumbs%20Up


Posted By: Tapfret
Date Posted: September 11 2008 at 12:36
Please tell me this is a joke. 

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https://www.last.fm/user/Tapfret" rel="nofollow">
https://bandcamp.com/tapfret" rel="nofollow - Bandcamp


Posted By: Logan
Date Posted: September 11 2008 at 12:44
It's no joke.  You disagree with the addition of Journey to Prog Related even based on the early albums?  I don't know early Journey enough to have much of an opinion.


Posted By: Tapfret
Date Posted: September 11 2008 at 13:17
I see no entry for them. Until I see one, I am more comfortable just believing its a joke.

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https://bandcamp.com/tapfret" rel="nofollow - Bandcamp


Posted By: Logan
Date Posted: September 11 2008 at 13:27
Ignorance is bliss. Wink http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=29489&PID=2928809#2928809 - click




Posted By: b_olariu
Date Posted: September 11 2008 at 13:41
So will be any Journey in PA or we all gonna stay at homeConfused


Posted By: Ricochet
Date Posted: September 11 2008 at 13:46
Originally posted by Logan Logan wrote:

Ignorance is bliss. Wink http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=29489&PID=2928809#2928809 - click




Senior member can't access a Collaborator Lounge topic.

But if it's about notifying about Journey's case, they're approved.

Approved since the 9th of January actually, it's just that no one has taken the case of adding it...Confused


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Posted By: Logan
Date Posted: September 11 2008 at 13:53
That link was for Tapfret, who can, being a PR, and also to answer b_olariu without letting the cat out of the big (figure the Prog Realted team should be the ones to answer this, though an SC would have to step up to the plate to add it).


Posted By: b_olariu
Date Posted: September 11 2008 at 14:00
man, who are the lazy one's who don't bother to add Journey if they are aproved, if they are not on the list for adding, then why  someone close this topic or poll or whatever this is, why writing anymore on something that has no issue.Stern%20SmileDisapproveConfused


Posted By: Ricochet
Date Posted: September 11 2008 at 14:02
Oh, you're right, Greg, sorry!

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Posted By: Logan
Date Posted: September 11 2008 at 14:07
No worries.  It's unfair of me to provide a link to a post that not everyone can see.

Originally posted by b_olariu b_olariu wrote:

man, who are the lazy one's who don't bother to add Journey if they are aproved, if they are not on the list for adding, then why  someone close this topic or poll or whatever this is, why writing anymore on something that has no issue.Stern%20SmileDisapproveConfused


Why don't you post in the thread I linked to that you would be willing to prepare the addition (bio, discography, pics), and I'm sure an SC would be willing to step up to adding it.  I won't simply because I don't want to add a band to the database, though prepared by another, that has proved controversial to PR that I don't know well.


Posted By: b_olariu
Date Posted: September 11 2008 at 14:18

i will wait, maybe some of the main collaborators make this step, if not , next week i will try to gather the informations, pictures , all, take time you know. But because i have the Cd's, some pictures and information are in my hand, that must be after all a good thing.



Posted By: Statutory-Mike
Date Posted: September 11 2008 at 14:50
Originally posted by markosherrera markosherrera wrote:

The albums before Perry =progrelated


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Posted By: Logan
Date Posted: September 11 2008 at 15:46
Originally posted by b_olariu b_olariu wrote:

i will wait, maybe some of the main collaborators make this step, if not , next week i will try to gather the informations, pictures , all, take time you know. But because i have the Cd's, some pictures and information are in my hand, that must be after all a good thing.



Excellent that you're willing to do it.  It does take time.  Not saying in your case, of course, but sometimes those who accuse collabs of being lazy with additions are lazy enough not to be prepared to do the work themselves.  That no-one has stepped up do it in all this time yet (many aren't enthusiastic about having it here in the first place and quite a few oppose it -- and many would rather not work on related additions) means it unlikely, I think, that another collaborator would rather prepare it him/herself now.  Anyway, be prepared for some fall-out when it is included (hopefully people realise that it's the pre-Perry albums that make it considerable).


Posted By: rushfan4
Date Posted: September 11 2008 at 15:50
That would definitely need to be included in the bio.  If time permits there were 4 or 5 bios for approved but not added bands that I was thinking that I might try to write this weekend.  Being that I am a big Journey fan and perfectly OK with the addition I have considered tackling it.  Nobody likes me anyways, so it won't be a big deal if they don't like me even further for assisting to add them. LOL

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Posted By: Easy Livin
Date Posted: September 11 2008 at 15:59
As has been said, the announcement that Journey were approved for prog related was made some time back. Unfortunately, as happens from time to time, people make a big push for a band to be approved, but then disappear into the undergrowth when the work to add them is needed.
 
Another one who was approved some time back but has not appeared is Gordon Giltrap.
 
The important thing with the Journey biography is that it emphasises the reason for their inclusion, i.e. their earliest albums.


Posted By: Ricochet
Date Posted: September 11 2008 at 16:09
Just to point out rushfan and Bob, b_olariu contacted me and said he would try to write himself a bio by sunday. So keep in touch over this.

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Posted By: Alberto Muñoz
Date Posted: September 13 2008 at 03:44
Journey prog related early albums
glad to see being added


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