What else exists?
Printed From: Progarchives.com
Category: Other music related lounges
Forum Name: Tech Talk
Forum Description: Discuss musical instruments, equipment, hi-fi, speakers, vinyl, gadgets,etc.
URL: http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=44035
Printed Date: November 23 2024 at 08:11
Software Version: Web Wiz Forums 11.01 - http://www.webwizforums.com
Topic: What else exists?
Posted By: clarke2001
Subject: What else exists?
Date Posted: December 03 2007 at 06:22
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I don't want to raise another debate about analog vs. digital, but let's talk about audio media: First of all, we have vynil: LPs spinning on 33, varying in length from 25 to 65 mins(!), then EPs, size of the LP but spinning on 45. Then singles, with big hole, 7", spinning on 45...any other sizes? Tapes: the standard cassette tape, officially alled "Compact Cassette", varying in length from 5 to 140 mins.There was a bigger cartridge tape in the 70's but I forgot the name. I'm not counting big rounds of magnetophone tapes for studio purposes; they were never aimed at home listening (am I wrong?). There's digital media: CDs, single CDs, visit-card size single CDs. And that PlayStation CD thingie. Any others? Of course, there's media for video storage that can be used as audio: video tapes (VHS, BETA , Video2000, 8mm, any others?), DVDs. Digital Audio Tape: I saw it for the home usage, but I think it never gained popularity. Are there any other, alternative media for, let's say, publishing an album? I'm not counting various virtual media and loads of different file types, I'm talking about pieces of plastic. I was amazed when I discovered a flexi-disc, a sort of a rubber vynil record. Did anyone ever published a single on that? For that matter, did anyone ever published an album as a "box set" of ten singles rather than long playing vynil? That would be aestethically very pleasing. Or the book which pages are actually perforated flexi discs. Did anyone ever published a record whose A side spins on 33, B on 45? What about 16 and 78? Did anyone ever published a "box set" containing more than one different media in the package? (let's say CD and vinyl) Anyone did a LP with a big "singles" hole? I heard the story of a band who di a record without a hole, for a joke. What about digital era? I really doubt that anyone will ever sell their album on hard disk in Virgin or HMV...but nothing's wrong if you buy an album, open the CD box and find a USB stick inside! I would like to see that! Do you have any ideas? And how do you spell viyniyll?? ------------- |
Replies:
Posted By: Vompatti
Date Posted: December 03 2007 at 07:41
| Some albums have been published on MiniDisc, but for some reason it never got very popular. Do they even make MiniDiscs anymore? |
Posted By: N Ellingworth
Date Posted: December 03 2007 at 07:44
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You can still get blank MiniDiscs but I don't think many people use them due to the popularity of other digital formats. |
Posted By: Abstrakt
Date Posted: December 03 2007 at 08:03
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Black Sabbath - Cross Purposes Live Live CD + VHS Tape sold together |
Posted By: Vompatti
Date Posted: December 03 2007 at 08:16
| Then there's DualDisc that has a CD on one side and a DVD on the other. |
Posted By: Kim Ankara
Date Posted: December 03 2007 at 08:28
As part of the "Year Zero" buildup, Trent Reznor hid USBs with his new music at Nine Inch Nails' concerts. ------------- "I'm a dinosaur" - Adrian Belew "I am a camera" - Trevor Horn "I am yourself" - Keith Emerson |
clarke2001 wrote:Posted By: GoldenSpiral
Date Posted: December 03 2007 at 11:07
It's vinyl
 I have two vinyl singles, one is LP sized, the other is 10". They have one track on each side and both spin at 33, not 45... the grooves are just very far apart. Both are recent pressings from contemporary artists (The Mars Volta and NIN). coincidentally, they are both picture discs as well.
I also have a 10" LP (most LP's are 12" in diameter) from Torche.
There is also the ever popular indie 7" EP, usually with 2 songs/side, 33 RPM.
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Posted By: arcer
Date Posted: December 03 2007 at 11:31
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12" LP at 33rpm (most of LP's history) 12" at 45rpm. Some modern lps cut to this across four sides of vinyl (based around albums recorded for CD length) 10" record (such as Radiohead's Amnesiac which was released as a double 10") And of course Aerosmith's big 10"  This size was used for a lot of EPs too. 7" single (45rpm) 12" single (usually at 45rpm) 78s (on brittle shellac at 78rpm) - this was how music was pressed for the most of the 20th century but a standard of 78rpm only really came into existence in the 1930s, a lot of early discs have a variance of speeds from 76 to anything up to 90rpm and most didn't even display the correct speed on the label! Finally, there was the awful flexi-disc! Anyone remember these? Before the age of digital media this is what mags used to give away music on if theu had a promotion. For example, Genesis released Twilight Alehouse on a flexidisc for ZigZag magazine in 1973 and also released The Lady LIes with Flexipop magazine in 1982 and I think there is a flexi fan club single of a live version of Firth of Fifth from the Three Sides Live era. I have an Alice Cooper flexidisc from NME around the time of Billion Dollar Babies and they are errr pretty much useless. As the name suggests, they are pressed on paper thin plastic (a litle heavier than a bin liner) and usually curl at the edges like those little plastic fish you get in Christmas crackers! Rare but rubbish. Anybody else got any crap flexis? |
Posted By: Neil
Date Posted: December 03 2007 at 15:58
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There was also the DCC or Digital Compact Cassette. This was introduced by Philips in the 90s as an alternative to DAT but never really took off.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Digital_Compact_Cassette - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Digital_Compact_Cassette ------------- When people get lost in thought it's often because it's unfamiliar territory. |
Posted By: Neil
Date Posted: December 03 2007 at 16:05
These were known as 8 track cartridges and used the same hardware as the jingle cartridges used in radio for years (which were three track, stereo and one control track, and ran at 7.5ips).
They had 8 tracks and ran at 3.5ips. You could have four stereo (or eight mono) recordings on the same piece of tape. Later there were also quadraphonic recordings using four tracks at a time.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stereo_8 - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stereo_8 ------------- When people get lost in thought it's often because it's unfamiliar territory. |
Posted By: Neil
Date Posted: December 03 2007 at 16:12
Yes, there were many home reel to reel tape machines made by Akai, Revox (the domestic name for Studer), Philips, Tascam, Sony and others.
Until the advent of DAT tape and writable CD media (and then hard disc recording on computer) a decent reel to reel set up was about the best home recording you could have. A 1/4" tape running at 15ips (and if you could afford it, with a Dolby A kit) gave a very good performance.
Sadly now resigned to history by modern digital systems at a fraction of the price.
------------- When people get lost in thought it's often because it's unfamiliar territory. |
Posted By: clarke2001
Date Posted: December 03 2007 at 16:32
Yes, that's a pity...my father had one of these (1/4" Teisco I think), but I thought it was an exception of the rule, since my father was an weird audiophile. I would like a lot to have one of these machines...they're so charming (any many other things). ------------- |
Posted By: clarke2001
Date Posted: December 03 2007 at 16:34
One from the Guitar Player where Leas Paul is introducing hisnew Gibson Les Paul Recording (I think). It might be crappy, but I thought it might be a nice idea to do an album in a form of a book with flexies (as single songs) instead of pages... ------------- |
Posted By: clarke2001
Date Posted: December 03 2007 at 16:36
Hm...that means it's possible to make a CD with A and B side!  ------------- |
Posted By: darren
Date Posted: December 09 2007 at 05:02
Years ago this was supposed to be the next thing in cd recording, so you could have a double album or two artists on one disc.
I'm not sure if it's the same as the forementioned DCC but there was a system that I saw in an old Panasonic catalogue that was an early DAT that recorded on a VHS tape. This was supposed to be a big step in home recording.
There was also LP's that would have two grooves on one side so that how the needle dropped would be what track played. Monty Python for one did this, I'm not sure if anyone else did.
Does it count that there were also LP's that were mastered at 1/3 speed, 1/2 speed, etc.? It was supposed to improve the sound. Also "Audiophile Series" that were mastered on a slower speed and with better quality vinyl... and only 3x the price of a regular LP.
Way back when I was in highschool, there was an old textbook that had a black and white photo of a 12'' with a large hole like the singles. I've never seen or heard of any other evidence of their existance.
I also remember there was a used record store in Toronto that had a 15" LP on the wall as a decoration. It was spray painted over to look cool, so I don't know what would be on it.
My grandmother had a few talking books on LP. They were 16 1/2 RPM.
For home video, there was VHS, Beta and 12" Laserdisc (a forerunner to DVD)
There was U-matic but I'm not sure if it was ever much as far as home use, mostly schools, business and television stations.
There is another that I'm not sure I can adequately explain. It was a vinyl record-type disc kept in a flat plastic cartridge. I think it was called "Selectavision" or something. ------------- "they locked up a man who wanted to rule the world. the fools they locked up the wrong man." - Leonard Cohen |
Posted By: darren
Date Posted: December 09 2007 at 05:08
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Sorry, I almost forgot to mention that The Barenaked Ladies have gone green and their albums are now available on USB sticks so that if you don't like it, you can still use the memory stick.
------------- "they locked up a man who wanted to rule the world. the fools they locked up the wrong man." - Leonard Cohen |
Posted By: Philéas
Date Posted: December 09 2007 at 09:46
I have one that came with a Guitar Player magazine in October 1984. It features The Attitude Song by Steve Vai. 33 rpm. It's square, unlike other flexidiscs I've seen. |
Posted By: rileydog22
Date Posted: December 10 2007 at 20:30
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Nobody mentioned the OLD SCHOOL wax cylinders yet? First recording medium ever, if I'm not mistaken. Edison FTW.
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Posted By: crimhead
Date Posted: December 10 2007 at 20:39
I am surprised more people haven't gone that route. |
Posted By: Dean
Date Posted: December 11 2007 at 04:03
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SD memory cards - several DAB radios (for example) can "play" those things ------------- What? |
Posted By: Seyo
Date Posted: December 13 2007 at 04:06
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Intersting topic! My first gramophone (turntable) had 4 speeds: 16, 33, 45 and 78!
It was on old 60s model, I forgot the brand name...
And I had a few 10" records on 78 rpm, made of hard and heavy plastic (what's the name for it?), proto-vinyl type... I remember they contained some popular melodies from 1930/40s I guess. I wish I had them now... Unfortunately my ancient vinyl collection was not saved :(
I also had a few flexi dics and also a book records containing English lessons. That was how I first started to learn English... :)
During 70s in Yugoslavia some hi-fi fans used to record music on reeel-to-reel tapes on "magnetophones" (Revox) for home purposes... the sound was allegedly better than on regular vinyl records...
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Posted By: A B Negative
Date Posted: December 13 2007 at 04:24
I've never seen one in the flesh, but I think this might be an acetate. Basically a "test pressing" to let those involved (band, producers, record company people etc) hear how it will sound. I've read about them being larger than normal 12" records and that they will wear out quickly because acetate is softer than vinyl. ------------- "The disgusting stink of a too-loud electric guitar.... Now, that's my idea of a good time." |
Posted By: A B Negative
Date Posted: December 13 2007 at 04:30
They're made of shellac. Very brittle stuff, more satisfying to smash than vinyl records! ------------- "The disgusting stink of a too-loud electric guitar.... Now, that's my idea of a good time." |
Posted By: A B Negative
Date Posted: December 13 2007 at 04:33
I love minidiscs but ipods have killed them.  ------------- "The disgusting stink of a too-loud electric guitar.... Now, that's my idea of a good time." |
Posted By: A B Negative
Date Posted: December 13 2007 at 04:54
------------- "The disgusting stink of a too-loud electric guitar.... Now, that's my idea of a good time." |
Posted By: Seyo
Date Posted: December 13 2007 at 05:12
Wow!
 I would definitely like to hear and see that... |
Posted By: A B Negative
Date Posted: December 13 2007 at 05:32
It's 10" orange splattery vinyl in a clear plastic sleeve. I think it came free with the first pressings of Sonic Boom's first album. The music's different to the album though, more like E.A.R. ------------- "The disgusting stink of a too-loud electric guitar.... Now, that's my idea of a good time." |
Posted By: Seyo
Date Posted: December 13 2007 at 12:09
| I never heard Sonic Boom anyway before. What's that like? |
Posted By: Vompatti
Date Posted: December 13 2007 at 13:33
In Finland there's a new series of more or less classic Finnish albums that come with a jigsaw puzzle of the album's cover: |
Posted By: rileydog22
Date Posted: December 13 2007 at 19:47
This Heat also did something like that, but only half the EP. One side had a specific RPM, the other was entitled "Graphic Varispeed" and did not have a RPM marking. ------------- |
Posted By: asimplemistake
Date Posted: December 13 2007 at 20:02
I didn't read far enough to see if anyone responded to this but Edison's first recordings were on cylinders made of tinfoil, and it was Christopher Bell and Charles Tainter who patented the wax cylinders. Edison actually considered using a flat disc but he thought a cylinder would be more scientifically correct. What an idiot!  |
Posted By: A B Negative
Date Posted: December 14 2007 at 04:50
Have you heard Spacemen 3? ------------- "The disgusting stink of a too-loud electric guitar.... Now, that's my idea of a good time." |
Posted By: A B Negative
Date Posted: December 14 2007 at 09:07
I've got a couple of square flexi discs, they're that shape so they can be stapled into a magazine. They have a perforated edge so you can just rip it out and play it.
My friend has a flexi disc from a top shelf "adult interest" magazine. ------------- "The disgusting stink of a too-loud electric guitar.... Now, that's my idea of a good time." |
Posted By: Seyo
Date Posted: December 18 2007 at 09:05
No, is it sort of heavy hard-core noise like Big Black?
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Posted By: A B Negative
Date Posted: December 18 2007 at 09:27
No, it's minimalist drone guitar music. Some of it's similar to Loop (who alledgedly stole their style from Spacemen 3), there's also hints of the Velvet Underground. Their mottos were "taking drugs to make music to take drugs to" and "minimal is maximal". The main members of the band were J Spaceman (Jason Pierce) and Sonic Boom (Pete Kember). When they split, Pierce formed Spiritualized and Kember went solo as Sonic Boom and then formed Spectrum and Experimental Audio Research.
http://www.spacemen3.co.uk - http://www.spacemen3.co.uk
------------- "The disgusting stink of a too-loud electric guitar.... Now, that's my idea of a good time." |