The album review section seems to go between one extreme of handing out 5 stars to any old album to gems like this:

Genesis -The Lamb Lied Down On Broadway

Review by http://www.progarchives.com/Collaborators.asp?id=22 - Ian Gledhill @ 3:12:09 PM EST, 3/30/2004
PROG REVIEWER

  —   Peter Gabriel finally comes to his senses and bales out of this sinking ship of pretentious shlock and embarks on a brighter course towards a splendid solo career.

Perhaps...

But this is a bit heavy...

 The Lamb "Pretentious shlock"?! Seems like a non-prog fan....

A wee bit extreme, especially as the album in question was largely a Gabriel project!

(See also his Genesis - FOXTROT review: "Pretentious dribble (sic) just like the previous three....")

Oh well. To each his own! "One man's meat...."

 Yes Dude! That adjective (pretentious) could arguably be applied to 98.6% of the genre! 

Stynx's "Mr. Loboto," on the other hand.....

Now that is one very real, immediate and profound piece of music!

Hey friends I have made the same remark when discovering this review this morning

But I didn't know it was "possile or accepted" to speak about it here.

My point of view :

Progarchives is a place of liberty, in particuliar the reviews.

But sometimes liberty is scoffed

One star for "The Lamb" is  ù^)à""o&¤$(), hem incredible

i don't know, tastes vary from mind to mind, sometimes th population likes something, but a single person hates it...

to me free will is a basic part of depeloping urbanism and self respect, i agree that "lamb" is a marvellous album, if this guy doesn't like it, well, is his problem... our reviews should be taken as hint, not as an statement, in any case, is very nice to see someone doesn't like certain album, because it makes you think twice if that is "really" a masterpiece or an "untochable" album, hahahaha, any way enjoy..

peace

Arqwave said: "Is very nice to see someone doesn't like certain album, because it makes you think twice if that is "really" a masterpiece."

Either that, or it makes you think twice about where the guy's head is at.

Everyone is entitled to their opinion, and tastes vary.  No argument with either of those.  My concern here is that Mr. Gledhill doesn't actually "review" many of the albums, he simply makes a subjective judgment in one or two lines.  That is not reviewing; that is simply going for "shock value," since he is well aware of how the majority here feel about these albums.

If Mr. Gledhill cannot take the time to truly "review" albums - giving us specifics as to why he considers The Lamb "pretentious schlock" or Foxtrot "pretentious dribble" and rates them so low - I will personally petition Max to "fire him" as an "official" reviewer.

Peace.

Vibrationbaby wrote: I take it that you want me to explain myself. I will admit that I went a little bit off the deep end with the Genesis reviews, but to say I "Simply make a subjective judgement in one or two lines." is not true. Check out other reviews I have written on Omega, Grobschnitt, Dream Theater, Mike Oldfield, Focus etc. You will also notice that the very first reviews which I began writing were rather short because I was rather new to the game. Although I have been involved in music both as a listener and musician for close to thirty years I had never previously sat down and wrote a musical critique. Max must have thought that I had some worthwhile insights or I wouldn't have been asked to write as a PROGEVIEWER As for my choice of bands, I try and review a band which would perhaps not be that familiar to someone visiting this web-site with the intention of becoming informed about what is out there as far as the prog-rock genre goes. Bands like King Crimson, Genesis (and I`ll get to this Genesis thing in a sec) and Yes are readily available at major record shops either on the shelf or through a direct order. They even play some of this stuff on classic rock radio stations. I think there is a lot more to this genre of music than just King Crimson, Yes, Jethro Tull etc. And don`t get me wrong I am a big fan of these bands as well, especially KC. I guess I might be a little guilty of not explaining myself in more detail as to why I didn't like a particular work but it just escapes me sometimes why we need another 5 star review for Dark Side Of The Moon, Foxtrot, Close To The Edge and others. There's a lot of great music available out there! What I really like when I`m going through the reviews is to see something different or new which I might not have even heard of (or forgotten about) A couple of good examles of this were some recent reviews on the Irish prog band Fruup ( which used to open for Genesis frequently in the early years) and  Greenslade. Mabye I was just feeling frustrated with looking at so many stars that I just said to myself there! Take that! If I offended any Genesis lovers I most sincerely apologize. I thought it would be taken for just that, shock value! And anyone who might have been taken aback by those somewhat harsh  statements about one of the premier acts of the genre all they would have to do is go and read all the other reviews contained in the archives on Foxtrot, LLDOB or whatever and they would come to the immediate conclusion that there IS someone out there who doesn't care for this band and I'm pretty sure this was going through my mind when I wrote those things. Once again I apologize to the Genesis people for my obviously hurtful comments. You wouldn't believe the comments which I've had to put up with being into bands like Brainticket, Guru Guru, Floh de Cologne and other bands in that vein!

In your review on Foxtrot, you say that newbies had better check out Gentle Giant. Is it true that Genesis is being over-estimated? I've only heard a few songs myself, and I wasn't really impressed.

Do you mean you weren't impressed with Genesis or Gentle Giant? For many Gentle Giant takes more time to start appreciating whereas people tend to like Genesis right away. (I'm refering to the early pre-1975 Genesis, of course.)

Vibrationbaby wrote: Do you mean you weren't impressed with Genesis or Gentle Giant? For many Gentle Giant takes more time to start appreciating whereas people tend to like Genesis right away. (I'm refering to the early pre-1975 Genesis, of course.)

Other way round: I ADORE Gentle Giant, but I don't know what's so great about Genesis. I guesss I only know their pop-period, and I only listened to a few songs from Nursery Cryme. What do you think is their best album?

Peter Rideout wrote:  The Lamb "Pretentious shlock"?! Seems like a non-prog fan.... A wee bit extreme, especially as the album in question was largely a Gabriel project!   (See also his Genesis - FOXTROT review: "Pretentious dribble (sic) just like the previous three....") Oh well. To each his own! "One man's meat...."

Pretentious? Prog? I think the word pretentious has been thrown around so much that the meaning of it has been lost. The definition of the word is such:

I don't think that is the point of bands such as Genesis. If anything, their progressive sounds are more apt to turn away potential listeners. also, they are almost always underrated, and have much more importance than is immediately evident. Hence, the term pretentious, when applied to prog, is nearly redundant.

Vibrationbaby wrote: There! I re-did my Lamb Lies Down On Broadway review. I'll fix the other one when I have a bit more time. This is more or less my true feeling towards this record.

A much better review in my opinion.I agree with your comments about 'Lamb..' being too long.I've often thought that and you do give credit for the better moments like 'In The Cage'.Anyone new to the genre would be well informed by that review.Well done and keep it up!

Well, the old review was certainly more fun to read.  Too bad it almost got you "fired" though, V-baby.

[edit: ...and however much I might like "Foxtrot" on its own merits, I have to say your Gentle Giant comment gave me a big ol' smile!  DAMN RIGHT!]

Vibrationbaby wrote:

"I'll try and rewrite my Foxtrot critique as soon as I can. (I also want to haul it out and listen to it a couple of times before I do so.)"

Kudos for that, Vibe! I like to give new discs several listens before I review them (at least), and even old faves (like JT's SONGS FROM THE WOOD) another spin (or two, depending on the length of the review) on my computer as I write. I find that lots of music that "grabs" me immediately soon loses its lustre, whereas stuff that I don't initially "get" will often "grow" on me, and stick with me. (Van der Graaf Generator being a recent example of the latter phenomenon -- at first I was tempted to dismiss it as depressing, paranoid and painful -- it can be that, but it's also MUCH more!) 

Cheers!

Vibrationbaby wrote: For all those offended by my rather harsh critique of Foxtrot I finally got around to fixing it up if you want to check it out.

Well yeah!  That review still conveys your personal apathy for the album without taking a slap at anything.  Good on you!   

OK now everybody!     GROUP HUG! 

Vibrationbaby:

Since I seem to be the most "culpable" party here vis-a-vis the "accusations" against you, let me first say that I apologize if I offended you personally.  As you know, you and I have had wonderful discussions (and debates) on various threads.  And I very much respect your opinion as a whole.

I think my main concern was that, as "official" reviewers (and I've said this elsewhere), we have an added "responsibility" with regard to "informing" new visitors through our reviews.  That was why I was so "upset" by your single-line reviews; that they were so shockingly "damning" (by both star rating and words) only added to my upset.

I also want you to know that me comment about "getting you fired" was probably as much for "shock value" as your reviews: I never did "petition" Max, nor would I have done so.  At the risk of sounding "snide," it seems my comment had the desired effect: you saw fit to comport your reviews to your true feelings, rather than using them as a "statement" - one that, as noted, had little value for new visitors who might stumble upon those reviews.

Please forgive me for any overzealousness on my part: just as it is, as you say, clear from your addition as an "official" reviewer that Max et al must have seen something in your reviews to warrant your "upgrade," I think that my "passion" for the site - that it truly be a place where new visitors get a sense of history, of honest assessment (even where two assessments are 180 degrees apart), and of "progression" within the genre - was, among other things (and perhaps primarily) what warranted my own upgrade to the admin group.

I offer an olive branch, if you are willing to accept.

Peace.

Cheers Maani. I think that I was initially wrong. It was a stupid thing to do on my part. I wrote that prior to my promotion to the status of "official" Prog reviewer and even then it was a dumb thing to do. As I said, this reviewing thing is new to me and I do think I am getting a little better at it with each posting. Believe me it is my sincere intention to turn people on to progressive rock music but at the same time I am not afraid to warn someone away from a REAL dud such as Triumvirat`s a La Carte. Wish I could go on I have two dogs here that are preparing to wreck the house if I don`t take them out.

Thanks for your concern.

VB:

Thank you for accepting my olive branch.  I wanted to add that it was actually somewhat strange to find that "Ian Gledhill" and "Vibrationbaby" were one and the same: i.e., the person on the threads seemed so...different from the person doing the reviews.  In this regard, I'm going to ask Max to go back to using our "nicknames" for the reviews, so that there is a consistency between the reviews and the forums: he can always link the nickname to the real name in the "Collaborators" section.

Finally, as the only two "Ians" on the site, we should be standing together, no?

Peace.