Modes & Keys
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URL: http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=43679
Printed Date: February 24 2025 at 00:56
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Topic: Modes & Keys
Posted By: Utah Man
Subject: Modes & Keys
Date Posted: November 20 2007 at 22:19
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what is the difference between modes & keys ? i basically understand keys, but if, for example, you're playing in say, the key of C major aren't you also automatically playing in a particular mode ? on sheet music, the musician is given [next to the treble clef] the time signature 3/4, 4/4, etc. and the key the piece is in...so where's the mode indicator ? |
Replies:
Posted By: asimplemistake
Date Posted: November 21 2007 at 00:40
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my quick way of explaining it (off the top of my head) is that a mode tells which note of the key that the tonality of the song is based around. So your key tells you what notes are flat and sharp, the mode tells you which step of that key is the root, or main tonality of the piece. The mode isn't displayed on sheet music, but can be found out pretty simply. |
Posted By: Easy Money
Date Posted: November 22 2007 at 06:09
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Take your C scale, if C is the root, try playing the sacale from C to C, you are in Ionic mode, or "major scale".
Take these same white keys and make D the root, or play the scale from D to D using these same white keys, you are in Dorian. If E is the root, Phrygian F Lydian G Mixolydian A Aeolian B Locrian You can of course apply this to the other 11 major scales as well. |
Posted By: MikeEnRegalia
Date Posted: November 22 2007 at 06:20
Actually the "key signature" (between the clef and the first notes) indicates both key and mode. For example if it is empty it indicates C ionian (pure major) or any of the 6 other modes which use the same notes (for example A aeolian (pure minor), D dorian, E phrygian etc.). ------------- https://awesomeprog.com/release-polls/pa" rel="nofollow - Release Polls Listened to: 
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Utah Man wrote:Posted By: Slartibartfast
Date Posted: November 22 2007 at 06:32
I vaguely remember that stuff from when I tried to teach myself to read music many years ago but improvising was so much easier for me that I didn't get very far. 
------------- Released date are often when it it impacted you but recorded dates are when it really happened... 
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Posted By: Era V.
Date Posted: November 22 2007 at 06:43
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Sheet music doesn't give any information about mode...nor does it need to. The key signature tells you what scale the entire piece or section of the piece is written in. The modes of a piece alter every time the chord changes. For instance a piece in C major - the key signature is C major. If the first chord of the piece is C then the first mode used will be C Ionian. If the second chord used is Am then the second mode used will be A Aeolian.....BUT the key signature is still C. Key signature and mode are not directly related. Modes are a way of thinking about chords as scale shapes instead of chord shapes. You could write a piece of music that is based around the mode of B Locrian, a nice weird jazzy dreamy crazy sounding song....but the key signature would still be C as B Locrian as a mode only appears within the context of the key of C.
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Posted By: MikeEnRegalia
Date Posted: November 22 2007 at 08:42
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^ of course with any given (modal) key signature the piece (or part of it) could be in 7 different modes. In conjunction with the chords and bass notes played the mode can be deduced. But I wouldn't say that the mode changes everytime a chord changes ... for example if the key signature is C major and the piece starts with a Dm7 chord this signals D dorian, and if then the chord changes to G7 and back to Dm7 again the whole piece is a textbook example of D dorian. If on the other hand in a different section the chords alternate between G7 and F major it might suggest mixolydian ... The most important things about modes is that they're often ambiguous. One scale can be interpreted as 7 different modes. ------------- https://awesomeprog.com/release-polls/pa" rel="nofollow - Release Polls Listened to:
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Posted By: Era V.
Date Posted: November 22 2007 at 08:47
Absolutely! But for illustrative purposes and simplicity you can think of every chord as a separate mode and then as you become more accustomed to the shapes and methods of using them you begin to explore when you can stay and leave a mode independent of chord change.
No point in getting too bogged down in it all or we'd be trying to explain tri-tone substitution before the basics were even there
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Posted By: Utah Man
Date Posted: November 22 2007 at 11:27
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this input helps... i'm still a little  .but do you guys know of songs - any songs - that would clearly demonstrate the difference between keys & modes ? If I could actually HEAR a song in such and such a mode it would help. OK...so in theory you could be in C major & utilize several different modes within that one key ? . |
Posted By: Inverted
Date Posted: December 10 2007 at 17:09
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/\ -- Yes, you can have one song in C major with many different modes, if you wanted. As far a songs go, I can't really help you.. but what you can do is this: 1. Go to your piano 2. Play the tones C, D, E, F, G, A, B, C. Congratulations, you have just played a C major scale. This is in a key with no sharps or flats (conventionally called C major). 3. Now, play the tones D, E, F, G, A, B, C, D. Congratulations, you have just played a D Dorian scale -- hear the difference? Notice that even when starting on D, you do not use the two sharps usually associated with the D major scale. You play all naturals. Starting one step above the first note of any major scale will give you the Dorian mode. You have just played this. 4. Still confused? Don't be. I have written some counterpoints to help you understand the differences in modes. All are in the same key: no sharps or flats. Each, however, is started on a different note. Phrygian -- Starts on E. http://koopaslaya.googlepages.com/PhrygianClarinet.mid - http://koopaslaya.googlepages.com/PhrygianClarinet.mid Dorian -- Starts on D http://koopaslaya.googlepages.com/DorianClarinet.mid - http://koopaslaya.googlepages.com/DorianClarinet.mid Ionian -- Starts on C (Typically referred to as a major scale) http://koopaslaya.googlepages.com/IonianClarinet.mid - http://koopaslaya.googlepages.com/IonianClarinet.mid Notice: Each example uses only one key signature. This is no sharps and no flats. The reason they all sound distinct is because of the mode I used. This is the root of the entire counterpoint. Oh, and I forgot to export them all in strings and clarinet, which I should have done. But, you'll get the picture... I hope. 5. Still confused? Get this book: The Study of Counterpoint, by Johann Joseph Fux. ------------- Prog... It's good. |
Posted By: Utah Man
Date Posted: December 10 2007 at 17:42
hey...thanks for this input. yea i am beginning to catch on. this is kinda what i was hoping for ...actual sounds to help "see" it. i may be utilizing modes in my music without even realizing it. as far as keys, i get it, they are a bit easier to grasp. Grazie per il vostro tempo . |
Posted By: Snipergoat
Date Posted: December 10 2007 at 17:59
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Maybe this will help you: Part 1: http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=LWHKeC4IEgA&feature=RecentlyWatched&page=1&t=t&f=b Part 2: http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=BoGQ9yHOyZQ&feature=related These helped me alot :) |
Posted By: mrcozdude
Date Posted: May 01 2008 at 04:02
This is what i'm learning now,i know what to do its just getting down to doing it  ------------- http://www.last.fm/user/cozfunkel/" rel="nofollow"> 
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Posted By: Petrovsk Mizinski
Date Posted: May 01 2008 at 04:37
You can yes, but the problem is, your still looking at it from the C major context in the way you seem to ask your question.
If you just start on say, C Ionian, then play D Dorian, E Phyrgian as just exercises without bothering to stop and listen to the differences in the overal tonality, you wont really get to grips with it.
One of the best ways to truly get to grips with modes, is Pitch Axis theory, which is widely used by guitar genius Joe Satriani. So instead of just running through the modes in a robotic exercise fashion, learn to see it truly as music, which can be hard at first, something I know from first hand experience.
Basically, what Pitch Axis Theory is, is changing modes, say we want to play in A major as our 'starting axis' we revolve around this axis by going to A dorian, or A locian for example and you will find althougn they start and end on the same note as A major, the notes in between give the mode its unique modal flavor.
And please, don't rush, it took me many weeksand weeksof study and intense study to understand the big fundamentals of modes
Major scale modes are only one of 3 major mode 'systems' (the other two being modes of the harmonic minor and melodic minor), so even when you've mastered the modes of the major scale, you still haven't found everything.
I admit, I'm still working on the major modes, but my ear has found the clear distinction between each mode and I can negotiate the chord progressions.
BTW: two great examples of Pitch Axis theory are Lie-Dream Theater and even Always with me, Always with you by Joe Satriani, we can not only look at the key change from B major to B minor as a parallel major/minor switch, but we can correctly say that is a pitch axis shift from B ionian to B aeolian. ------------- 
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