Why add more artists?
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Forum Name: Help us improve the site
Forum Description: Help us improve the forums, and the site as a whole
URL: http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=43068
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Topic: Why add more artists?
Posted By: Vibrationbaby
Subject: Why add more artists?
Date Posted: October 29 2007 at 10:59
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Why are we always suggesting new bands when there are so many bands on the archives lacking reviews. I do my best to review stuff that recieves very little or no reviews as my time permits. For example, I`ve tried to review every Omega album as well as albums from Jan Akkerman Larry Coryell, Octobre, john McLaughlin and others which don`t recieve that much attention. I have quite a few albums but am reluctant to review an album that has been over-reviewed. And I`ll only review an album that I`ve been listening to recently or pick an album that hasn`t been reviewed, listen to it and then review it. What`s the point of adding bands/artists with no reviews? ------------- |
Replies:
Posted By: P.H.P.
Date Posted: October 29 2007 at 11:08
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Hm...good point, but maybe it's because PA "...intends to be the most complete and powerful ../Progressive-rock.asp - progressive rock resource." maybe it's predominating quantity over quality here...  |
Posted By: Slartibartfast
Date Posted: October 29 2007 at 11:21
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Artists? We don' need no stinkin' artists!
There are a lot of albums posted here that need reviews. I try to do my part. ------------- Released date are often when it it impacted you but recorded dates are when it really happened... 
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Posted By: Atkingani
Date Posted: October 29 2007 at 11:21
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Should a dictionary give up some words because they're too much?
Not a matter of quality or quantity but a compromise with the facts. Maybe a band from Turkey or Nepal doesn't interest North Americans or Europeans but who knows if some guys in Asia have the interest... who knows?
For reviews being done one have to see the artist here in PA and so... well, that's the basic principle. ------------- Guigo ~~~~~~ |
Posted By: mystic fred
Date Posted: October 29 2007 at 12:20
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all new submissions have been suggested by a member in the first place, they should pick up on them when their bands are included and do a review. -------------  Prog Archives Tour Van 
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Posted By: Vibrationbaby
Date Posted: October 29 2007 at 13:29
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Thanks for that Mystic. When I did the few bios for additions I suggested I wrote a few reviews for each to get the ball rolling hoping that others would pick up on my lead. From time to time I`ll scroll through the archives and pick a band at random that I`ve never heard of only to discover no freakin`reviews. NO FREAKIN`REVIEWS .!
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Posted By: keiser willhelm
Date Posted: October 29 2007 at 13:31
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I support the addition of new bands, otherwise the archives becomes
stagnant and un-progressive itself. however, the lack of reviews does
need to be addressed. perhaps the person(s) who vied for the inclusion
of the band should be required to write a review of the albums, at
least two or three. if they want the band to be included they should at
least know the music enough to have listened to a sufficient amount of
the band's material. The work can be done collaboratively if need be.
the band bio's are already handled like this, lets make a move to start
with the reviews?
------------- http://www.last.fm/user/KeiserWillhelm" rel="nofollow - What im listening to |
Posted By: magnus
Date Posted: October 29 2007 at 13:37
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At least there's a possibility for an album to be reviewed if it's here... ------------- The scattered jigsaw of my redemption laid out before my eyes Each piece as amorphous as the other - Each piece in its lack of shape a lie 
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Posted By: The T
Date Posted: October 29 2007 at 14:51
Is there anything on this flawed site that you agree with?  ------------- 
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P.H.P. wrote:Posted By: Vibrationbaby
Date Posted: October 29 2007 at 16:47
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Posted By: Vibrationbaby
Date Posted: October 29 2007 at 16:50
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Maybe reviews should be prepared alongside the bios so the band will at least have a few reviews from the get go. Make this a sort of policy when adding bands.This is basically what I did with Guru Guru, Larry Coryell & Octobre when I did their bios.
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Posted By: Ricochet
Date Posted: October 29 2007 at 16:57
Are we adding bands/artists strictly for them to be reviewed/for their reviews?!  Or are we adding bands/artists because they're progressive/accepted as progressive?! It really sounds to me like the suggestion is that we've added all the possible prog artists in the world, or that we should stop and don't allow anymore artists. Reviewing an artist, despite that you're right, and it's sad how many prog albums are not reviewed or discovered, is not a conditional (needless to think of "compulsory") thing for adding an artist/band. ------------- 
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Posted By: Vibrationbaby
Date Posted: October 30 2007 at 10:53
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I`ve got it then. If someone adds an album then they have to review it. There. Problem solved.
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Posted By: Prog-jester
Date Posted: October 30 2007 at 16:01
I try to review every band I add. I still "in writing" as for my VESPERO and GDEVA reviews, and I'd like to propose a new band soon 
As for adding new artists - don't you wanna see KROBAK on the Archives?  I would...
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Posted By: Vibrationbaby
Date Posted: October 30 2007 at 16:43
Well, once you get the album out I`ll be the first to review it  .
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Posted By: Cesar Inca
Date Posted: November 01 2007 at 00:17
No, not necessarily. I included KENSO's 2006 album in July '07. I had only noticed it existed a wekk earlier, and no one else in PA had, apparently. I'm yet to review it, and I'd really like to have the inspiration and time to do it. Anyway, it's better having it listed here, with cover image and tracklist and all, although temorarily unreviewed, than not having it here at all as if it didn't exist. Don't you think?
Given the dynamics inherente to PA, this is the natural order of things: adding first, then hoping that reviews won't take too long to appear.
Kind regards.
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Posted By: Ivan_Melgar_M
Date Posted: November 01 2007 at 00:23
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Sorry to be crude, but this is the most absurd question I read, if an artist is Prog, he must be added.
About the albums without reviews, i have added a lot of bands and artist, but one example is Jean-Luc Ponty, I added him and of course all his discography of almost 30 albums, but I reviewed only the albums I'm familiar with.
How in hell can i review King Kong or Canteloupe Island if I haven't heard them?
But this doesn't justify to include a mutilated discography.
Iván ------------- 
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Posted By: Vibrationbaby
Date Posted: November 01 2007 at 10:47
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OK I`ve got a better solution. We get easy livin`to block us from reviewing albums that have already been reviewed. That way we`ll be forced to review albums that haven`t been reviewed ( see his list ). All we have to do is go to the list and choose an album and eventually all the albums will get reviewed....eventually. I`m not going to review any previously reviewed albums from now on. There, problem solved end of thread.
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Posted By: Ricochet
Date Posted: November 01 2007 at 11:18
nope:
Look, however sad it is the ratio between over-popular albums and consequently forgotten artists, you have to realize each of the 30-40 reviewers that put their text in a day choose what to review and how to review. However good an impulse towards reviewing much more and much broadened, forcing and denying doesn't sound the right thing. (and, though I'm not in a versatile mood at all by saying this, I think you shouldn't decide on your own that this thread's debate is ended and your point wins. You can already see this subject can be discussed. )-------------
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Posted By: Vibrationbaby
Date Posted: November 01 2007 at 11:44
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C`mon lighten up I was sort of half joking. But "seriously" I`ve found a few albums from Easy Livin`s list that deserve to be reviewed which I`m going to dig out and listen to such as Norweigan band Ruphus` `76 album "Let Your Light Shine" which unbelievingly has not been reviewed yet.
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Posted By: Cesar Inca
Date Posted: November 01 2007 at 14:49
Great band: I dicovered them through Myspace. Someone created a blog devoted to that band's exciting music. There's lots of Myspace blogs devoted to not-so-famous prog bands from the glorious past: SF&F, Pulsar, Arachnoid, Gotic, etc.
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Posted By: Dean
Date Posted: November 01 2007 at 16:42
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I think there's something like 50 people involved in adding bands and potentially 15,860 forum members reviewing a total of 16,217 releases...
okay, the maths doesn't quite add up, 357 of you guys are going to have to review more than one album... ------------- What? |
Posted By: Peter
Date Posted: November 01 2007 at 20:03
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Again (this should be obvious): people can't review albums they don't have.
Obscure albums are obscure because, by definition, few people own copies of them. Of those who do, most will likely NOT be members here, and of those people who do access this site, I'd wager that most don't write reviews.
I review the stuff I own -- sorry if it's not rare or out of print enough for you, but guess what: I've never HEARD of that stuff. Send me some free obscure, unreviewed CDs and I'll review them (but I'll be damned if I'm going to spend my limited music dollars on stuff I know nothing about, just to please some smug stranger
 who has a bunch of obscure stuff in his ginormous collection).Music and music reviews are a hobby of mine -- not a job. This is a FAN site. Archives reviewers are unpaid. They review their OWN albums because those are all they CAN review. (Again, that's also why most of our reviews tend to be favourable: people tend to buy stuff from artists they like, or can expect to like, based upon a listen via radio, or a well done professional -- thus likely more neutral -- review.
We often hear folk say here that such and such a band is "just as good as Genesis, Yes, etc, but they never get mentioned." Duh! Genesis and Yes, et al, are FAMOUS. That's like complaining because the local guy who sells his self-published book from the back of his car isn't as famous as Steven King. Not all artists can be famous (assuming they even deserve to be).
It's easier to get people to talk about Coors Lite than that tasty, not-for-everyone stout from that little craft brewery, because many more people have heard of Coors Lite via its huge advertising budget, have ready access to it via its huge marketing & distribution system, and have tried it.
Go ahead: review that little-talked-of, barely-sold gem from your collection, but don't expect me or many others to follow suit. We just don't own a copy! Sorry!
(And we likely won't buy it, if it turns out to be a fifty dollar import that will take 6 months to ship.)
This seems too obvious to have to point out again. What do you expect from a FAN site? Justly or not (that's not the issue) obscure bands have few fans. Few fans = few (or no) reviews.
 Those "no one ever talks about (or reviews) X" posts really irk me. People simply can't talk about topics which they know nothing about -- unless of course the subject is God, or the afterlife. Then they'll go on forever, and likely kill you if you disagree with their version of "the Truth" (as "revealed" to some ancient schizophrenic). ------------- "And, has thou slain the Jabberwock? Come to my arms, my beamish boy! O frabjous day! Callooh! Callay!' He chortled in his joy. |
Posted By: Vibrationbaby
Date Posted: November 02 2007 at 10:30
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My point really was that we don`t need 15 million reviews of Dark Side Of The Moon, Foxtrot or Tubular Bells ( although I reviewed it for the hell of it because someone asked me to ).
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Posted By: Vibrationbaby
Date Posted: November 02 2007 at 14:58
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I also think maybe the reason why some guys come to this site is to find a starting point for these lesser known bands ( I wouldn`t call them obscure )`both new and old. When I started back in the `70s it was the record shops and that was it. My starting point was with many of the lesser known bands particularily from continental Europe as well as Eastern Europe. While the textbook bands like Yes, King Crimson, Genesis are all great there`s so much more out there to discover, not because theyre obscure but because they`re damn good bands.
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Posted By: andu
Date Posted: November 02 2007 at 17:55
Seeing your review on the homepage Vbaby lets me know the answer for the question "why did Igor add Kostarev?"  ------------- "PA's own GI Joe!" 
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Posted By: jikai55
Date Posted: November 02 2007 at 22:37
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I applaud your post, Peter. ------------- 
I like cheese and I like metal! --Mikael Åkerfeldt |
Posted By: Vibrationbaby
Date Posted: November 03 2007 at 10:59
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Both the Kostarev Group`s two phenomenal albums can be heard for free through the RAIG wesite. Similarily , other bands from The Russian Federation make available their recordings available through their RAIG supported wesites or their own myspace. ------------- |
Posted By: Prog-jester
Date Posted: November 04 2007 at 03:41
I need to make a special post as for free Russian mp3 albums I guess - to avoid unreviewing. BTW, VESPERO's "Rito" reviewed, wanna write another one - PM me!!! |
Posted By: Peter
Date Posted: November 04 2007 at 17:39
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Peace Vibe, ol' comrade in prog -- and keep reviewing those obscurities. A river can start with a trickle....
But sorry I cannot join in -- when I was first getting into prog, and in my circle, my explorations of non-English prog bands like PFM, Can, Amon Duul II and Triumvirat -- even Nektar -- were forays into the "obscure." We simply did not have any way to hear of -- let alone buy -- stuff that was any less "mainstream." (In prog fan circles, that is.)
(You grew up in Montreal, no? A more cosmopolitan place than my home, then or now.)
BTW, I just bought some CDs during a trip to Toronto. 4 discs, & not a prog one among them (unless you count the Beatles - Revolver). I was looking for IQ, Subterranea, but no luck (though the store had "Ever"). 2 of the 3 major downtown music stores had closed, including the iconic Sam the Record Man. Draw your own conclusions re the health of the industry.
 Even on Amazon.ca, prog other than that from the biggest acts can be hard to find, or afford. The last time I checked, Caravan's In the Land of Grey and Pink was an expen$ive import that (in my experience with the company) might take months to ship.It's one thing to review the lesser-known stuff which you may own, but quite another for most folks to be able to find it, or even afford it.  ------------- "And, has thou slain the Jabberwock? Come to my arms, my beamish boy! O frabjous day! Callooh! Callay!' He chortled in his joy. |
Posted By: Vibrationbaby
Date Posted: November 05 2007 at 10:40
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Peter is right, I was lucky to have had access to so many second hand shops in Montréal where I found most of my albums back in the seventies. We also had a Sam The Record Man here in Montréal but it was not quite as comprehensive as the Toronto store. I`d always start there when in TO and then go to a second hand store a bit further down on Yonge called "The Incredible Record Store ", or something like that. It was owned by a guy by the name of Jonathan Lipsin, I also used to haul some goodies out of there as well. I understand what you`re saying about $$$$$$$$$$ and CDs. I just bought Moonlight Whispers by Larry Coryell at HMV here in Montréal and it cost me over $40 ( If a particular someone found out I would be crucified ). As for scarcity I actually find that a lot of previously hard-to-find-stuff has become recently available on labels such as Revisited Records and Wounded Bird Records which are readily available through big retailers such as HMV as special orders. While the Revisited Records titles can be a little on the pricey side, the Wounded Bird releases are much more reasonable as low as $19.99 which is what I paid for Jan Akkerman`s Tabernakel.
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Posted By: aapatsos
Date Posted: November 17 2007 at 20:58
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I think the answer is somewhere in the middle... New bands must be added if they are spotted, so that the site remains comprehensive... ...but someone who proposes an addition must be familiar with a band's recordings or even demos... I believe this is a fair way, even if it's somewhat hard to find recorded material for every band |
Posted By: Dean
Date Posted: November 17 2007 at 21:05
The genre teams cannot add a band without hearing a fair sample of the music. If a band is so obscure that samples cannot be found then they cannot and will not be added. ------------- What? |
Posted By: aapatsos
Date Posted: November 17 2007 at 21:12
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^ thanks for making this clear, fair enough I actually meant that a full demo or album must be heard first so that there is a chance for a review along with the addition of the band in the site |
Posted By: Dean
Date Posted: November 17 2007 at 21:14
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^ good point, and many of the people who propose a band to the teams are often the first to write a review anyway, but I don't think we should enforce this as a general policy. ------------- What? |
Posted By: aapatsos
Date Posted: November 17 2007 at 21:30
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^ agreed, enforcement is not a good way of achieving goals... encourage sounds better I guess... anyway, I believe that albums without reviews need to be minimised I know it's not easy, but with encouragement something can be done and of course you need motivation, nobody can be forced to write a review the list that the Admin Team has set up about unreviewed albums is a great way to do this maybe you need to advertise this list more... just a few suggestions... |
Posted By: Ivan_Melgar_M
Date Posted: November 17 2007 at 22:55
The problem is not advertising, the problem is economic, take for instance:
It makes US$ 52,276.00 not counting cassettes, CDR's, etc. Where in hell can i get more money to buy rare stuff living in South America?
You can advertise, encourage or even enforce the reviewing of new material, but I don't have the money, I spent too much already, so I have to buy what I'm sure i will like.
Iván -------------
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Posted By: Padraic
Date Posted: November 20 2007 at 20:54
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I'm continually stunned by the variety and volume of prog artists a lot of folks around here listen to. Do they actually buy that many CDs? They must not have a wife.
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Posted By: MonkeyphoneAlex
Date Posted: November 21 2007 at 10:10
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I buy as many as my budget allows for.
------------- "Information is not knowledge. Knowledge is not wisdom. Wisdom is not truth. Truth is not beauty. Beauty is not love. Love is not music. Music is THE BEST." -FZ |
Posted By: Aristilus
Date Posted: November 22 2007 at 05:38
| Why not. The more the merrier. |
Posted By: Logan
Date Posted: November 22 2007 at 13:46
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If one is trying for the most complete Prog database, then one has to add more bands (as I'm sure must have been said, but this time I'll post before reading the comments). I've discovered some great bands here that were not reviewed at the time -- not just new additions too. The bio, mp3s if available, and link to the official site has got me into a few bands sans reviews here (some have just had ratings, some not even that). If the bio (and category as I've often searched for bands I don't know in whatever category and country I'm particularly interested in at the time) piques my curiosity, even without reviews or mp3s here, I will try to find more information (clicking on the homepage link if available, or doing a google or myspace search --all if possible). But then I like to discover the more obscure artists and research for myself via search engines (then if I feel like it, have something I want to say, I will try to discuss the band in the forums). And of course if a band is not here then it cannot be reviewed/ rated (except in the board forums). |