I've noticed that a lot of people don't enjoy Dream Theater, constantly accusing them of technical masturbation, well in what does Yes' very technical music differ from Dream Theater ? ELP is also a very technical Symphonic group what makes it better than DT, is the Symphonic tag ? i find ELP dreadful overblown lyrics( a lot of poor comparisons and metaphors), and they are vey technical, but not that loved on ths site anyway.

Isn't there maybe a bit to much prejudice against DT just because they play prog metal, are from the 90's and have an awful singer ?

Well i'm telling you now i don't really like Yes or Dream Theater , so i don't really listen to either a lot. So i won't really know their obvious big differences. I find them both maybe a bit unfocused from time to time,playing without any emotional goal. So can people tell me in what Yes or ELP are better Than DT?

Because DT is obviously a group very much influenced by Yes, and according to wikipedia Emerson's favourite modern group is Dream Theater.

 

I know this a potentially dangerous topic sorry, with possible very conflicting point of views being expressed.

 

 

 

 

 As for Dream Theater, I enjoy some of their music, but in general they do at times smack of what turned me and many others away from progressive rock: the tendency to lean on excessive "noodling". This is the trap that bands like Camel, Gentle Giant, and a handful of others never fell into.

 

I think it is unfair to accuse Yes of the excess of noodling prior to GFTO.  Listening to TFTO or Relayer, it's quite clear that except for a couple specific places (White's drum solo in Ritual comes to mind) we are dealing with thoughtfully composed music instead of noodling.

 

And yes, I know that DT belong to a metal sub-genre dubbed "prog metal" due to the incorporation of typical prog elements into the sonic mix (flashy keyboard frills, longer songs with multiple sections, etc), but for me, the metal part of the equation always dominates, and that's where I'm left cold.

 

I will say this though, in partial defense of the much-maligned Labrie: at least he doesn't "growl." That particular metal vocal affectation I really cannot stand.

 

Thus, for me it's a case of "to each his own." Metal (DT, other prog metal or otherwise)  is simply not to my taste. I find the overall sound (not the occasional displays of "flash" or virtuosity) of Yes and ELP to be far removed from metal (as do most others, it seems -- thus their placement here in non-metal categories). I think you are erroneously comparing vastly different types of music. (If they weren't greatly different, I'd likely be a DT fan -- i know I honestly tried to get into them when I first encountered them here.)

 

 

Dream Theater, at their best, don't fall foul of this either. I felt the first disc of 6DOIT and half of 'Train Of Thought' were really the only particularly guilty offenders, to be honest. Some of their albums have bits which seem to be there to show us just how well they can play, but not as consistently as those two I mentioned, IMHO.

 

For the record, Emerson was interviewed recently about modern prog. He said the following- from this website... http://www.vintagerock.com/kemerson_interview.aspx - http://www.vintagerock.com/kemerson_interview.aspx

With ELP no longer an active and working band, do you listen to any of the new progressive rock bands out and about today?

I’m a big fan of Jordan Rudess. I went to see Dream Theater at the Universal Amphitheater, and I thought they were bloody loud. Jordan, God bless him, got us some fantastic seats right in front. If I suffered from constipation when I went in, I definitely didn’t when I came out. It was phenomenally loud, but it was good. Very high energy. And I think the Universal Amphitheater allows them that spaciousness their music needs. I think Jordan has done a lot to promote keyboards in the way that he’s got this revolving keyboard set-up. I was very jealous of that.

In order for progressive music to excel and have a new generation of listeners, I think the melodic, thematic development of which ever piece is used as the main vehicle has to be distinctive and memorable. It’s all well and good to be technical and fast all the time, but I think a lot of it after a while just washes over you. It’s the same with the new generation of jazz players. Some that you listen to are unbelievable technical geniuses. But that’s all it is — it's just technique. You come out of a gig and there’s nothing you can remember, there’s no distinctive hook. You say, “That was played very well, but for the life of me I have no idea how it goes. It was just very fast.”

I think you’ll find on the new album which I’m doing, there are distinctive melodies you can actually sing. Apart from the fun that we have with different modulations and chord progressions, going through the whole background is a distinctive melody. I think people will always want melody above technique. It reminds me of my father’s advice in my formative years when I was playing the piano and writing. He would say, “You’ll never make any money playing music that people can’t sing.” And I’ve always kept that in mind. As much as I suppose things like “Tarkus” are not easy to sing, there’s always a moment, where you go, “Ah, this is the melody.” You’ve got to appeal to everybody in advancing progressive music.

 

This is something I completely agree with. You need to know when to pull in the reins and think about structuring the song first, not the soloing. I've heard rather too much modern symph/retro prog which doesn't seem to grasp this.

 

 

sorry i know that my topic isn't really clear.

I don't really like dream Theater so i'm not trying to really promote, i'm just really trying to see how much of the critiques of DT are objectif and how much of them are based on prejudice because the people who play the music have beards and wear black clothes, because this group who is a major prog one of the 90's 00's, has very poor ratings on this site, and a lot of the stuff they do is really amazing and they do do a lot to promote prog, it always makes me smile to see on pictures promoting their tours Portnoy in the back with a " In The Court Of The Crimson King" shirt showing clearly to the world that he is a progger and that they better watch out .

 

anyway the thing is I am more of a kind of Genesis,King Crimson,Neo Prog & P.T. fellow but i really enjoyed Liquid tension very progressive and has this jazzy side that really makes it flow, so i'm discovering these technical groups ( really dislike ELP so far), so that's why i'm asking these question's about DT & Yes.

 

Dream Theater's AVFAM is as good an album in the top 50 albums as any other.  Yes it has some metallic bits, but the whole album is a true prog album with a balance between the heavy and the light and flows between tracks quite beautifully.  Absolutely classic.  As for YES and ELP, both have done their apprenticeships and are now masters of their trade.  Dream Theater are not quite there yet, but I am sure in the fullness of time will get there.  A few more classic albums and they will be.  DT are classically trained musicians and it shows. 

 

I personally do not like SC but that's because of the subject matter only.  I am still going to see them on tour next month.

Right and left winged refer to politics, not being "close-minded." You could argue that it is "conservative" to prefer '70s symph, but that is something different (the terms are politically used intergangably because the right is usually also resistant to change), so calling it "right wing" is just stupid[i/]. It's dangerous to use words when you don't have a full grasp of their meaning. Although saying Dream Theater (or any other group) is twice the band of any '70s group is a stupid thing to say, anyway (regardless of your preferences, saying something like that only demonstrates ignorance), and since they are easily the most popular prog-metal band, I'm not sure how much more "open-minded" it makes you.

No, it's not. You have no idea what you're talking about. How does favoring a small government make one close-minded? Gah, internet people are so frustrating.

 

I know, riley, give me more credit than that. :) I was quoting you because I didn't want to bother finding the original post and I was too lazy to edit it (and it got italicized for some reason).

 

3 clappies for you!

 

A)Keep it civil "You have no idea what you're taking about" is not civil for example, and

B) Keep the politics out of it, this is a music section.

 

This thread is now in overtime, heading the way of its predecessors.

 

Does Pink Floyd do speed metal and prog metal? which album is it? (Note to myself - listen to more Pink Floyd).

 

Seriously though, no one on this board forces anyone to listen to DT.  I like them, you don't, that's fine.  If everybody only liked Pink Floyd, then we would live very boring lives.  "Variety is the Spice of Life".  What I am trying to say is "lighten up..... easy tiger", think positive, think glass half full! and smile......

 

I going off to listen to Riverside and Pocupine tree, I got them for my Birthday.....

 

Happy Birthday to me.............. 

 

Just to keep things lively...

 

Umm, given the quality of Emerson's stuff since, oh, about 1974, not exactly a ringing endorsement.

 

I don't like Dream Theater and am a confessed Right Wionger...So what's the relation?

 

You don't like right wingers, i don't like anything related with the left spectrum of politics, but i reaspect the right of every person to have the position they want, maybe if you had lived in a country where a Communist President destroyed our economy and Maoist terrorists caused more than 30,000 deaths you would think different.

 

But, I don't care about your political position at all and it has no relation with your musical taste, think before you talk, because this is pure BS.

 

I have commuinist friends who hate Rock, Prog, Metal and everything, while a lot of right winged friends don't understand why I don't like Dream Theater.

 

Iván

 

2 - this forum is intented to be a place of prog rock talking, right?  ok... so ppl should keep the talking about prog rock and avoid fighting each other...

 

It's not fighting Sunhillow, Politics have nothing to do with music, and this guy is nobody to criticize my political position, this is a free forum, I can believe in what I want.

 

It's already tiresome to read people criticizing our musical tastes, but it's part of what you can expect in a forum, but Religious and Political ideas have no business in this section of the forum.

 

Specially when what is writen is pure crap with no relation, more disgusting that our God given right to believe in what we want is to read Lucent speaking BS.

 

Iván

 

Yeah Right wingers like me are the sh!t of the world, when we are not defending the Monarchy ideals, we are clubbing baby seals for fun.

 

Even if this was truth, where in hell do you find the relation with the music we listen?

 

Your ignorance in politics is only compared with your lack of abbility to make a simil, there are stubborn close minded left wingers, if not remember Pol Pot, and there are open minded right wingers, some of them like Dream Theater, others not, taste has absolutely no relation with political position.

 

A communist dictator in my country banned Rock because he claimed it was a Yankee form of cultural penetration, if this is open minded, well I rather continue being called close minded

 

Today it'sn easy to listen Prog, it's popular, lots of bands clain they are Prog, but ion the late 70's or 80's it was unpopular, but we were open minded enough to discover almost underground music when the radios, magazines and MTV was bombing us with Disco, New Wave or Michael Jackson.

 

But this is not the place for politics, there's a forum for non musical issues, there you can rant all you want agaibnst the bad rioght wingers.

 

BTW: Do you believe that only if you like Dream Theater you are openm monded? Please don't try to backup this because iit's absurd.

 

Better wait until you are old enough to vote to start talking about politics, when you earn your money with your work and don't live of daddy's pocket, you may change your mind.

 

Iván