Heavy Prog ... huh ?
Printed From: Progarchives.com
Category: Progressive Music Lounges
Forum Name: Prog Music Lounge
Forum Description: General progressive music discussions
URL: http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=41867
Printed Date: November 27 2024 at 00:55
Software Version: Web Wiz Forums 11.01 - http://www.webwizforums.com
Topic: Heavy Prog ... huh ?
Posted By: Yorkie X
Subject: Heavy Prog ... huh ?
Date Posted: September 20 2007 at 01:52
Ok I`m now starting to need a calculator to add up all the differant types of prog  The latest one I have noticed is "Heavy Prog" ... ? what is this about ? is it like a lesser "heavy" type prog metal I noticed Rush get called Heavy prog on this site now ? ... what is it ? I kinda liked the simple "art rock" label best to be honest 
|
Replies:
Posted By: stonebeard
Date Posted: September 20 2007 at 01:58
|
I don't use it. I'm stubborn when it comes to that sort of thing. I remember Rush being Art Rock, and now they're something else. Call them what you want and put them into whatever category with whatever made up name you want, they're still Rush. ------------- http://soundcloud.com/drewagler" rel="nofollow - My soundcloud. Please give feedback if you want! |
Posted By: Vompatti
Date Posted: September 20 2007 at 02:03
| Progarchives is the only place I've ever heard anyone talk about "heavy prog", "crossover prog" or "eclectic prog." To me the new genres sound kind of silly compared to the simple "art rock." |
Posted By: Atavachron
Date Posted: September 20 2007 at 02:09
|
the term 'heavy prog' is used constantly all over the place... |
Posted By: Ricochet
Date Posted: September 20 2007 at 02:10
Perhaps reading the definitions and new values of these genres, instead of thinking of these names and how well "that simple Art Rock one" was about, is a good (or, at least, decent) idea.  Or, taking Stonebeard's idea, the genre is only important, not fundamental, to what the band and their music is all about. ------------- 
|
Posted By: Raff
Date Posted: September 20 2007 at 02:11
|
First of all, if you look at the ProgGnosis site, you'll see many more, and even more outlandish, definitions. They have "Hard Progressive", if you really want to know. Secondly, the new definitions were approved after MONTHS of discussion in the collabs zone. They weren't any overnight decision. We knew there would be reservations on the part of many users, though there are as many of them who are quite happy with the change. Thirdly - and most important thing - the AR split was suggested (by myself, I have to add) because the category was becoming next to untenable. We had almost 500 bands in the section, which ranged from The Moody Blues to Atomic Rooster through VDGG and Curved Air, and people were becoming increasingly confused by the name. Some of you might remember the threads going, "why are KC in Art Rock? This means they're not prog!". I suppose you are aware that Art Rock is often used to describe something that is not quite prog. I believe everyone should be entitled to criticise choices, but I also think words like "silly" should be avoided, especially when talking about definitions that were discussed for months before being implemented. |
Posted By: stonebeard
Date Posted: September 20 2007 at 02:13
|
^ I'm sure the new genres fit well, Rico, but after becoming accostomed to a certain set of genres, then having a whole new set of genres thrust open you, you feel put on the defensive and unaccepting of these new "upstart" genres. ------------- http://soundcloud.com/drewagler" rel="nofollow - My soundcloud. Please give feedback if you want! |
Posted By: Ricochet
Date Posted: September 20 2007 at 02:23
there was always such a defensive response to any new, curios or unprepared change (the Symphonic clean-up, for example. Didn't it shook the world of Prog Archives? Didn't it cause hysteria when Crimson, GG, Rush and so were moved to Art Rock?). But we aren't trying to do harm or bedazzled by these new definitions. These three new genres practically proposed a better and more comprised orientation and practice within the Art Rock sum of styles and movements. All three should, practically, express a different value within the old Art Rock. But, of course, since we're also thinking of some bands from other genres that could fit in one of these new ones, the statement above can't be accepted 100%. -------------
|
stonebeard wrote:Posted By: Raff
Date Posted: September 20 2007 at 02:30
| Of course there is a defensive response.. especially when not-so-complimentary words start flying around. I defended my choice of "eclectic" on an Italian prog forum, and was bashed for it, before the Mods intervened and put an end to the whole thing. I can understand people disagreeing with a choice, but when they use words like "awful" and "ridiculous" (like those Italians did), those who are responsible for said choice usually feel a duty to intervene and explain. |
Posted By: puma
Date Posted: September 20 2007 at 02:35
|
genres are overrated at least, that's what king crimson thought in 1969 but what do they know |
Posted By: FruMp
Date Posted: September 20 2007 at 03:44
|
To be quite honest it was justified and almost necessary, I use this site to find new music and bands and art rock always deterred me - it could be anything, under the old system a lot of the bands sounded nothing like each other and it was really hard to find bands I liked in the art rock genre. The only real complaints I have heard are people saying 'I don't like it' or 'it's unnecessary', compare that to 'it helps me use the site' and it's pretty easy to see it's a good move. ------------- 
|
Posted By: Atavachron
Date Posted: September 20 2007 at 03:47
| good deal, FruMp |
Posted By: salmacis
Date Posted: September 20 2007 at 04:42
|
I was totally in favour of this 'heavy prog' idea; in fact, it was me who started a thread on the whole shebang in the collabs' lounge around a year ago. That should tell you how long it was discussed before any action was taken; some of the people here imply that it was a snap decision. I've seen the term used on prog websites; 'Vintage Prog' and 'Progressive World' I'm sure I've seen use it, for starters.
It occurs to me that some of the people complaining about the new terms probably moaned when 'art rock' was used as an all encompassing term for all these different acts, anyway. There's just no pleasing some people.
 |
Posted By: Aspiring hope
Date Posted: September 20 2007 at 06:32
|
Like Ghost Rider has noted, there were a lot of threads from people with problems understanding the whole Art Rock genre throughout its existence, probably due to the confusion stirred from different designation purposes and significantly due to the wide variety of bands included, whereas it'd be almost unthinkable to understand what some bands had in common. Still, it was practical to those who understood it, and I did as well, but I see the need to divide it; and although I'm not too crazy with the names Eclectic Prog and Crossover Prog, they're the genres that were present in Art Rock - together with Heavy Prog - that were providing little accuracy as a conjoint unit, so it's efficient to part them, in the long run. As to Heavy Prog, I've seen it numerous times and somewhat feel what it's about without even reading the definition posted and empathize when directed to Rush, as I always thought that'd be their best designation. Kind of a progressive hard-rock, I'd say, but there's obviously more to it.
It'd be best if you read the definition (if you've yet to do so, of course), Yorkie, then attempt to draw some specific doubts, if you have any left. Also, one should have in mind that, being a recent development, the bands included in each genre are not necessarily accurately placed - given Vemod and Nucleus, Eclectic Prog sounds a better home for Anekdoten, imo, but I've yet to hear the rest so... -, but with patience and proper discussion everything will fall into place eventually. -------------  |
Posted By: BaldJean
Date Posted: September 20 2007 at 06:42
|
High Tide are the best example for heavy prog. and a band like Van der Graaf Generator, who so far had sat very uncomfortably in "Symphonic Prog", are much better fitted in "Eclectic Prog"
-------------  A shot of me as High Priestess of Gaia during our fall festival. Ceterum censeo principiis obsta |
Posted By: andu
Date Posted: September 20 2007 at 08:04
|
You'll see that in one years time everybody "around" will use terms like "eclectic", "heavy prog" and "crossover", and the terms will make perfect sense to you... Patience, my friend.
------------- "PA's own GI Joe!" 
|
Posted By: Slartibartfast
Date Posted: September 20 2007 at 08:05
That's kind of funny because I was always a sucker for anything labeled art rock here. There wasn't anything new I tried categorized as such that I didn't like. Then again I've often thought art rock as synonimous with progressive rock.
Not totally comfortable with the category crossover just with regard to the word crossover. Seems to me that should apply to artists that started out making stuff that wasn't progressive but crossed over into progressive for at least one album. So Radiohead would fit, but Oldfield wouldn't since he started out prog with his first album (if you count out the Sallyangie). Well, he didn't stay strictly prog and did crossover to pop. (Shoot me now.) In reading the current definition of crossover and looking at the artists categorized as such, damned if I can come up with a better word, so what the heck. A lot of strictly prog artists move around the sub categories as they are now defined anyway.
Hey, I see we still have special collaborators with "art rock" in their title. What's up with that?  ------------- Released date are often when it it impacted you but recorded dates are when it really happened... 
|
Posted By: Raff
Date Posted: September 20 2007 at 09:16
| Though we have split in three separate teams, we're still very much collaborating with each other - especially since there are only two of us in each team. At present, Ricochet is dealing with Eclectic on his own, as his partner Chus is very busy with his studies. We've just split our AR chart yesterday... We'll have our tags changed soon, but for the time being there are more pressing matters to deal with. |
Posted By: Time Signature
Date Posted: September 20 2007 at 10:00
| Is all this genre-w**king part of being a progger? Does it make us seem more sophisticated or does it really makes us seem pretentious and silly? As I've said earlier, if we keep up at this rate, we'll end up having a genre per artist. |
Posted By: MikeEnRegalia
Date Posted: September 20 2007 at 10:20
|
^ more like a genre per 50 artists. I can live with that!
------------- https://awesomeprog.com/users/Mike" rel="nofollow">Recently listened to: 
|
Posted By: fuxi
Date Posted: September 20 2007 at 10:33
It's a boy thing. 
|
Posted By: Vompatti
Date Posted: September 20 2007 at 11:25
I didn't mean there was anything silly about the new genres and their definitions, I'm only saying that there are many people who are used to the term "art rock" but have never heard of "crossover prog." I realize the need to split art rock into smaller categories, and I agree that the new genres are a better way to classify these bands than the somewhat vague "art rock." However, I don't believe crossover prog and eclectic prog (and the old art rock) are "actual" genres in the same way as symphonic, prog folk and the new heavy prog that are based on similar musical elements. Crossover and eclectic prog still have the same problem as art rock did, that they may include bands that have musically little or nothing in common. This was one way to categorize the bands previously in art rock, and as most of them don't unambiguously fall into a certain genre by their sound or musical style, the new genres are as good as any others. It just takes a while to get used to them. |
Posted By: Slartibartfast
Date Posted: September 20 2007 at 11:31
So you guys aren't in any hurry to crossover to your new titles. ------------- Released date are often when it it impacted you but recorded dates are when it really happened...
|
Posted By: Yorkie X
Date Posted: September 20 2007 at 12:33
Anyway if there's a "heavy Prog" then it stands to reason their must be a light prog after all everything has a "reverse polarity" according to professor Peart ..   Hey lets do this to all the sub genres so that they all have a equal and opposite a counterpart then we would have twice as many subgenres as we already have woohooo Yorkie bolts with his tail between his legs to avoid conflict  |
Posted By: Space Dimentia
Date Posted: September 20 2007 at 12:36
|
I personally cant see anything wrong with it. In fact I like it, to me it makes sense and th description fits all the bands in the genre: They take Led Zep, Deep Purple an Sabbeth's heavyness and fit the prog rock model around it. My band Equinox are a heavy prog band (at least in my eyes we are, I have had some people say on a topic I raised about us on here that we are prog-metal, Im happy with either), because we are not as heavy as most prog metal bands and we take say Zep and Purple's grooves and bluesyness, mix it with Sabbeths power chords then put differt prog rock moels around it. ------------- Prog is music for the mind Hear your Orphaned child! Check out my bands myspace site: www.myspace.com/equinox17 |
Posted By: Tony R
Date Posted: September 20 2007 at 12:45
We need more and more genres to keep pace with the ever increasing amount of Collaborators we have....
|
Posted By: andu
Date Posted: September 20 2007 at 12:52
|
Genres... or Issues.
------------- "PA's own GI Joe!"
|
Posted By: debrewguy
Date Posted: September 20 2007 at 12:59
Watch out, I'm revving up the rant & rave machine & brewing up a word storm !!!!!! Short of actually finding a name for each very particular & specific (o.k., let's all say it together VERY LIMITED) alleged, allied, similar, comparable sub sect of a sub-genre of a sub-genre of an incompletely descriptive overall name for different groups that kinda play something that could be used to explain why one group might interest others that are into another group (whooooo , take a breath, continue) .... that plays something rather close to the aforementioned first group's sort of music, the people who run this site (on our behalf, and unpaid at that) attempt from time to to time to fine tune the various segments inside Proggressive music. YES, PA & its' members, and this includes us Plebes outside the collab & Admin spheres, could easily overdo the "name the music so the music reflects the name" game & sub-divide itself into a multi-myriadic mishmash of made-up monikers for any & all strains of (what PA considers) Prog. So rather than taking out one's frustrations on the PA staff, go back & work on the really important problems in your life. Once you have become reasonably calm, THEN return to PA's forums & admit that the attempt to introduce a musical index of sorts is just an way of trying to help PA prog fans better navigate the many streams of this music we all love (though we don't all love all the different streams, & wish that some simply streamed down certain household porcelain disposal units ), so as to help, or at least give some dichotomic guidance to the many searchers/explorers/discoverers here that wish to find new treasures that may exist within certain general musical boundaries. I didn't mind the Art Rock term. I knew it was sometimes very vague & all-encompassing, but knowing many of the acts just gave me an indication that they were groups who shared a certain bent towards creating music. So I could see how the Moody Blues & Rush or King Crimson could share a common path. The new subgenres (heavy, eclectic, crossover) are more specific & frankly, the heavy prog section is one that I am glad has come about, because while I don't mind Prog Metal, I'm more interested in a more "uptempo" or (egad) heavier type of music. The same with eclectic & crossover. They are clearer terms to try, and yes, please remember that "TRY" is the important word here, and give a better indication re : comparison point to those who want to follow up on groups who may be similar to those they currently like. Some genres are easily definable such as Krautrock & Italian Symphonic. But their fans, if they had nothing better to do, could easily raise a big stink about variations within the description - Kraftwerk & Amon Duul II play the same type of music ??? PFM/Le Orme are similar to Pholas Dactylos ??? What happens if a Italian Symphonic group tends towards lengthy multi part suites ? If PFM is a leader in this genre, why don't they have any of these types of compositions in their work ? So, if & when changes are being discussed or contemplated, please share your opinions & justifications for such, no matter what side you take. Once a decision has been reached, instead of nitpicking on why genre X is an artificial construct, ask yourself if it represents a more homogeneous aggregation of groups that will enhance a prog music fan's chances of finding "new" music that they will enjoy. And if for some reason, "new" names for the same old music is something you find offensive, blasphemous, or ridiculous; well , then you do have the option of disregarding them or even leaving this community. Me, I'd rather argue about the music, then what it's called. When I first stumbled onto PFM, I was looking for something comparable to Gentle Giant on the Pandora web site. The song E Festa was among the 8 tunes presented as suggestions. From there I went on to acquire the entire PFM discography, but I never quite saw the similarities between the two. I even strained to see the so-called Crimson influence in some early PFM tunes, other than that they shared a certain "dark" quality to them, the same as with some early Ange compositions. But i never went back to Pandora to complain that their "suggestions" stank or did not make sense. The general explanation seemed simple & made enough sense that I could see why they were "lumped" together. I might have used different descriptors, but I wasn't asking myself, now was I ? I was asking for someone else's guidance, or help in finding more music that I would enjoy. So for this, in my take on this whole genre/ sub-genre debate, is that the whiners forget about the end user's goal - not to find the most objective, clear cut, no argument, clear as sky, one word definition of a music's genre; but to have signposts that may show the way to music I will enjoy "Nuff Said \Actually, likely, as per my occasional habit ... too much said  ------------- "Here I am talking to some of the smartest people in the world and I didn't even notice,” Lieutenant Columbo, episode The Bye-Bye Sky-High I.Q. Murder Case. |
Posted By: Time Signature
Date Posted: September 20 2007 at 13:27
Oh, right, and since I'm a man, not a boy, I don't get it, right?!?
|
Posted By: andu
Date Posted: September 20 2007 at 13:30
Pantagruel strikes back!  ------------- "PA's own GI Joe!"
|
Posted By: P.H.P.
Date Posted: September 20 2007 at 13:53
Yes, I think taggings must be just a little thing to guide new fans, it's not so important as the music, let the people do their investigation and tagging job, they will eventually do it, if they're honestly interested in Prog music. |
Posted By: Dean
Date Posted: September 20 2007 at 14:22
|
One of the clearly defining characteristics of (nearly) all progressive bands is the desire to create music that defies decription and classification. Just note the number of artists refuse to ascribe a genre to the music they create until one is foistered upon them and then it is usually a portmanteau of two or more existing genres that almost fits the music they play. To overcome this many sites use tagging to asign a number of different tags to a band that broadly encompass the music, but we do not have that luxury.
The aim is to make sense of a spawling old sub-genre, to collate bands together into more 3 manageable new sub-genres so that when you find a band you like in one of those new sub-genres there is a slightly better chance that one of the other bands in there will also be to your liking. Of course we will get it wrong from time to time, but rest assured we have open ears and will listen to positive suggestions about moving a band from one sub to another. In the meantime the shop is open for new suggestions and recommendations. http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_topics.asp?FID=1 - http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_topics.asp?FID=1
At the end of the day (eek! I hate that phrase) it doesn't matter one iota what the sub-genre is called - it wouldn't bother me if xover was called Doris-Prog or eclectic was called Colin-Rock. As debrewguy has so eloquently said (I'll not quote his dissertation again, just scroll back
 ) it's not about the name, it's about the music.NB: Of course this is all self-defeating. In a few years xover will be so large and diverse we will have to do it all over again. I am preparing for the backlash already ------------- What? |
Posted By: Raff
Date Posted: September 20 2007 at 14:34
As a Collaborator to this site, I find your definition rather derogatory, not to say offensive. A lot of thought went into the split, and, while we were well aware that pleasing everybody was not possible, I don't think it is fair or respectful to imply that for us it was only a question of 'genre-w***ing'. In my earlier posts, I've tried to explain our motivations, but it seems some people pretend not to see what others write. I'm not asking for people to agree with our choices - I'm just asking for RESPECT. I would also like to thank Debrewguy for his 'dissertation' (I'm writing one myself, so I should know...) in defense of our work and our choices. As I have learnt in a lifetime of study, the need for classification seems to be almost innate in human beings, especially in fields such as the arts. Though some people may not see that, it is a fact that cannot be denied. |
Posted By: Time Signature
Date Posted: September 20 2007 at 14:35
No offense intended. My apologies.
|
Posted By: Tony R
Date Posted: September 20 2007 at 14:36
PA's own GI Joe! |
Posted By: Ghandi 2
Date Posted: September 20 2007 at 15:08
| The nebulous hell of Art Rock was hardly simple. |
Posted By: ProgBagel
Date Posted: September 20 2007 at 16:59
| Just accept it the way it is. |
Posted By: Hirgwath
Date Posted: September 20 2007 at 17:18
|
I think the three-way split was necessary. It makes a place for lighter prog that is not quite Prog Related, a spot for heavier prog that is not quite metal, and then a place for bands that defy any kind of categorization. It fills in the gaps. And that is what a "genre" is for: to describe a group of music that needs description. These bands were not adequately described in the Art Rock days. Bravo to the collabs and team members!  ------------- Skwisgaar Skwigelf: taller than a tree. Toki Wartooth: not a bumblebee. |
Posted By: Sckxyss
Date Posted: September 20 2007 at 18:47
|
The split was good, however, I think the more universally accepted "art rock" would be a better name for eclectic prog. I'm not complaining though; as many have said, it's about the music, not what it's called! |
Posted By: Slartibartfast
Date Posted: September 20 2007 at 20:53
|
I would like to take this opportunity to rant about some of the other sub-genres.
Canterbury Scene? Do the British really need a scene of their own?
Indo-Prog/Raga Rock, fairly self explanitory, but how come the Chinese don't get their own category?
Italian Symphonic Prog? Get back in with the rest of Symphonic Prog.
Krautrock? Are there any Germans offended by that term? And what is it doing here really?
Prog Metal? Aren't those two terms contradictory?
And Zeuhl, Zeuhl? Zeuhl? Whaaaaaaaaaa?
Hey, I'm a wise guy and some folks might consider me a bit of a fungi.
------------- Released date are often when it it impacted you but recorded dates are when it really happened...
|
Posted By: debrewguy
Date Posted: September 20 2007 at 20:54
Er, if you're a married man, then , er, you likely rarely get it, heh heh hehe ... ------------- "Here I am talking to some of the smartest people in the world and I didn't even notice,” Lieutenant Columbo, episode The Bye-Bye Sky-High I.Q. Murder Case. |
Posted By: debrewguy
Date Posted: September 20 2007 at 20:55
Geez, I wish I could write like that. It took me 5 paragraphs to say the same thing.  ------------- "Here I am talking to some of the smartest people in the world and I didn't even notice,” Lieutenant Columbo, episode The Bye-Bye Sky-High I.Q. Murder Case. |
Posted By: Atavachron
Date Posted: September 20 2007 at 21:19
|
some excellent responses... thanks everyone |
Posted By: activetopics
Date Posted: September 20 2007 at 22:25
| oigh lol music is music enough w/ the retarded subgenres...then again where would the PROG archives be without genres? herm. contradiction. |
Posted By: Shakespeare
Date Posted: September 20 2007 at 22:27
| Eye loike da prog lawl. |
Posted By: verslibre
Date Posted: September 20 2007 at 22:45
|
Slartibartfast: where's your avatar from? Reminds me of Gilbert Shelton, Freak Brothers artist. ------------- https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_ipg=50&_sop=1&_rdc=1&_ssn=musicosm" rel="nofollow - eBay |
Posted By: Flucktrot
Date Posted: September 20 2007 at 23:26
|
It's basically a function of creating higher levels of specificity in classification...you lose some inclusiveness, but you also gain higher discrimination between classes. The same applies to classifying personality, intelligence, etc.....
------------- Thank you, God of Rock, for this chance to kick ass |
Posted By: FruMp
Date Posted: September 21 2007 at 05:02
As can I, the more specific the genres get the more likely it is you'll find other bands you like if you already like a band in that genre. -------------
|
Posted By: Slartibartfast
Date Posted: September 21 2007 at 11:23
Well, I know where your avatar is from.
Mine was from a do it yourself card making program by American Greetings. I modified the little cartoon guy to look like me, though my nose isn't that big. I also modified the guy to look like my wife and made a wedding cake topper.
  ------------- Released date are often when it it impacted you but recorded dates are when it really happened...
|
Posted By: Time Signature
Date Posted: September 21 2007 at 12:16
Depends on how... healthy... one's marriage is ;-)
|
Posted By: Slartibartfast
Date Posted: September 21 2007 at 12:37
I must admit that we have a very healthy marriage.  ------------- Released date are often when it it impacted you but recorded dates are when it really happened...
|
Posted By: Sckxyss
Date Posted: September 22 2007 at 00:33
|
Posted By: debrewguy
Date Posted: September 22 2007 at 13:08
My wife & I have settled on a compromise - when she wants it, I get it ------------- "Here I am talking to some of the smartest people in the world and I didn't even notice,” Lieutenant Columbo, episode The Bye-Bye Sky-High I.Q. Murder Case. |
Posted By: debrewguy
Date Posted: September 22 2007 at 13:12
unquote unquote "in quotes" "in Quotes" ------------- "Here I am talking to some of the smartest people in the world and I didn't even notice,” Lieutenant Columbo, episode The Bye-Bye Sky-High I.Q. Murder Case. |
Posted By: micky
Date Posted: September 22 2007 at 13:30
|
somes thoughts on some points raised... first off the one closest to my heart.. hahah.. . ISP is not a symphonic genre... it is a genre for the Italian Progressive Rock movement. otherwise known as RPI. It has not been renamed yet on the main page.. .so all can rest your minds a bit easier. Canterbury is a historical genre of sorts.. a well known scene centered around it..... could it be merged in Jazz-Rock... the better question is ....why would we want to. No thoughts on Indo Prog... could care less and apparantly most posters could either. As far as Krautrock... why would German's be offended by it... I figure most of them have enough sense... unlike some.. to realize an insult from a label. ------------- The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip |
Posted By: debrewguy
Date Posted: September 22 2007 at 22:30
------------- "Here I am talking to some of the smartest people in the world and I didn't even notice,” Lieutenant Columbo, episode The Bye-Bye Sky-High I.Q. Murder Case. |
Posted By: Floydian42
Date Posted: September 22 2007 at 22:37
| Is it just me or does the mass quantities of sub genre's only help prove that prog is a place to lump random different groups as opposed to being a solid genre within it self? |
Posted By: rileydog22
Date Posted: September 22 2007 at 22:46
|
In response to the genres: Krautrock: Anybody who says that that Kraut should not be a category on the site has not heard any krautrock. The genre contains some of the most unique music on the site, and nearly every band in the genre would not remotely fit into any of the other genres on the site. Canterbury: Though Canterbury could feasibly fit in Fusion, bands like GonG and Caravan would be poor fits with Area, Mahavishnu, and the like. Italian Sympho: I can't agree more with anybody who says this just belongs in regular sympho. I don't care if the technical term is IPS or whatever, it's simply symphonic prog that happens to come from Italy. Japan has an equally unique RIO scene, but nobody wants to see it split from the rest of RIO. Zeuhl: I think that Zeuhl is different enough from the rest of the Avant/RIO category to deserve its own group. Zeuhl is a very unique sound, and putting them in with RIO would make it very much harder for fans who discover Magma to also discover other French Zeuhlers like Eskaton and Dun and also the Japanese scene, with bands like Ruins and Bondage Fruit. Indo-Prog: I don't think anybody really cares. -------------   |
Posted By: FruMp
Date Posted: September 23 2007 at 02:48
Well said Has anyone here listened to any indo-prog? -------------
|
Posted By: ShipOfFools
Date Posted: September 23 2007 at 03:13
|
This is confusing me, too. There are some artists that I've always considered as symphonic prog, who are now labeled something else. And what is heavy prog, anyway? ------------- 
"Better than a thousand hollow words is one word that brings peace" - Buddha |
Posted By: Raff
Date Posted: September 23 2007 at 03:17
Do you know that every subgenre has its own definition? It's not there for decorative purposes, but to answer questions such as yours. Anyway, no one will prevent you from considering those artists symphonic, if you so wish. |
Posted By: Atavachron
Date Posted: September 23 2007 at 03:18
|
Heavy Prog Heavy Prog defines progressive rock music that draws as much influence from hard rock as it does from classic progressive rock. In simple terms, it is a marriage of the guitar-based heavy blues of the late 1960s and 1970s - artists such as Cream, Led Zeppelin, and Black Sabbath - and the progressive/symphonic movement represented by King Crimson, Yes and Genesis. The electric guitar, amplified to produce distortion (or 'overdrive') is a crucial element, providing the 'heavy' tone required for this aggressive style, and later for the British and North American heavy metal of the late 1970s and 80s. The primary rock format of drums, bass and guitar with keys and/or vocals on top is represented strongly in heavy prog. The presence of the Hammond organ with its deep, intense rumble was also common among harder progressive groups such as ATOMIC ROOSTER. Although certain other acts, such as King Crimson and Jethro Tull, utilize a heavy guitar, bass and keyboard sound, the bulk of their work over the years puts them in a different category. Bands that represent Heavy Prog would include ATOMIC ROOSTER, URIAH HEEP, TEMPEST, BLACK WIDOW, DR. Z, RUSH, WARHORSE, PAATOS, BIRTH CONTROL, TILES. |
Posted By: FruMp
Date Posted: September 23 2007 at 05:00
|
Hmm that's interesting, Uriah Heap were in proto-prog before weren't they?
-------------
|
Posted By: Raff
Date Posted: September 23 2007 at 05:05
| Not that I know of... Proto-Prog means before 1969, and UH released their most important prog albums after that date. |
Posted By: FruMp
Date Posted: September 23 2007 at 05:43
|
oh ok, maybe they were prog related then.
-------------
|
Posted By: andu
Date Posted: September 23 2007 at 08:02
|
No, Uriah Heep were in Art-Rock before.
------------- "PA's own GI Joe!"
|
Posted By: Slartibartfast
Date Posted: September 23 2007 at 08:41
Ok first of off I was being silly. I actually got the Krafwerk LP Autobahn before I became a zombie prog person. One of the many things I heard in my formative years that turned me into a ZPP.
Lots of Canterbury categorized stuff in my collection, just taking a little poke at the Britishers.
I've sampled some Zeuhl on this site, Thanks much for the streaming audio. Have not added any to my collection though I belive I might have some borderline Zeuhl in my collection already.
Why doesn't some of you peoples care about Indo-Prog? I love Indian food and the music is distinctive. Lots of great Indian restaurants in the north Decatur area of Georgia (near Atlanta) if you ever get around to these parts.  ------------- Released date are often when it it impacted you but recorded dates are when it really happened...
|
Posted By: andu
Date Posted: September 23 2007 at 08:51
|
I only got to listen to the Shakhti albums from the whole Indo/Raga, but they're great and an excellent addition to the site.
------------- "PA's own GI Joe!"
|
Posted By: BaldJean
Date Posted: September 23 2007 at 11:20
|
High Tide are the perfect example for "heavy prog"
------------- A shot of me as High Priestess of Gaia during our fall festival. Ceterum censeo principiis obsta |
Posted By: Raff
Date Posted: September 23 2007 at 11:27
100% agreed.. and they are there indeed. There was talk of moving them to Proto, but I would've keenly disagreed with such a move. "Sea Shanties"in particular is a real blueprint for all things heavy in prog. |
Posted By: Ricochet
Date Posted: September 23 2007 at 11:29
|
Since I checked them, when doing a clean-up session, I would think of Proto-Prog as their better genre (due to the blend of metal and really 'eavy rock rustles), but, sure, High Tide are fine and artistic enough for Heavy Prog.
-------------
|
Posted By: MonkeyphoneAlex
Date Posted: September 27 2007 at 19:19
|
While at first confusing to those used to the old"Art Rock", the new genres will give people who are reading about the band without ever hearing the band a much better idea of the group's sound and style. I am in full support of the changes.
------------- "Information is not knowledge. Knowledge is not wisdom. Wisdom is not truth. Truth is not beauty. Beauty is not love. Love is not music. Music is THE BEST." -FZ |