Apple Computer?
Printed From: Progarchives.com
Category: Other music related lounges
Forum Name: Tech Talk
Forum Description: Discuss musical instruments, equipment, hi-fi, speakers, vinyl, gadgets,etc.
URL: http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=41052
Printed Date: January 25 2025 at 22:49
Software Version: Web Wiz Forums 11.01 - http://www.webwizforums.com
Topic: Apple Computer?
Posted By: Peter
Subject: Apple Computer?
Date Posted: August 20 2007 at 08:34
 So, I'm soon going to buy a brand-new, kick-ass computer, and this time I'm seriously thinking of going for a Mac (it has been recommended as perhaps the best for the things I do (music, photos, games, etc.)My question/concern is, are there any known compatibility problems with using a Mac on Prog Archives, or any serious problems with switching to a Mac, in general? I've never owned/used one, so any informed feedback from Mac users, and perhaps the Admins, would be greatly appreciated. Thanks in advance, friends!  ------------- "And, has thou slain the Jabberwock? Come to my arms, my beamish boy! O frabjous day! Callooh! Callay!' He chortled in his joy. |
Replies:
Posted By: andu
Date Posted: August 20 2007 at 10:06
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If what you want from your computer are the usual things such as listening to music, watching films, playing games, browsing the internet, chatting, editing and archiving your documents (images, texts, etc), then I suggest you stick to the PC. The MAC was not designed for these things, but rather for being used by professionals in various areas such as, for example, image or film processing. The MAC is a computer to use at work, and the PC is the one to use at home. The MAC's strength is it's reliability, which comes from a very compact structure of it's software. If you get a MAC, you will find that you need other programs than the default MAC programs, and the more of them you install, the more damage you inflict to the compact structure I was mentioning, therefore functioning problems occur. It also has a different interface and until you learn all it's tricks, it's rather annoying. And finally, most of the programs that were initially developed for the PC have versions for MAC, but these MAC versions usually are less developed, sometimes missing essential features. I was recently given the occasion to have a very good (2500 dollars worth) MAC at my disposal for a week's time, for both work (DTP, which is an area of professional image processing) and personal entertainment. At first I was amazed at how good it was doing it's job, but then... - I installed Yahoo Messenger but the MAC version looks awful and doesn't have the Voice Call feature, so I also had to install Skype too - the video player sucks, as it has a very sloopy video filter (meaning that it's video rendering was syncopated) and a primitive audio filter (meaning that it had problems with newer audio formats and bringing the sound to a minimal, satisfying volume); a better video player and a serious filter pack are needed - ITunes sucks, with it's limited file conversion and editing options and weird file stocking for example - Safari, the web browser, does not have protection against ads (especially noisy ones  ), making browsing sometimes horrendous; it also can't be customized the way Firefox can, for example; - many others as such So as I started making modifications to the programs and installing new ones, it begun having problems while using the major applications (such as Quark, Freehand, Photoshop) I was using; the MAC's owner even said that he never needed to use "Force quit" or to restart it for better performance before! We talked about these things and we agreed the best thing is to have both a MAC for work and a PC for personal activities. Sorry Peter, I don't think you needed to know all these, they belong to the Ranting Room   Basically if you're not a very advanced PC user than you won't feel a big difference when passing to the MAC, and there are also major advantages like it's a lot safer (viruses are developed usually for PCs), it's very silent (it doesn't have a radiator) and it's easy to move (it doesn't have a central unit, everything is hidden in the monitor which is very slim), so go for it!  ------------- "PA's own GI Joe!" 
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Posted By: bhikkhu
Date Posted: August 20 2007 at 10:14
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I bought the iMac G5 two years ago, and I love it. It never freezes, it's great for music (and other media), it's self contained (no big tower), and Apple Care is a great service program (I highly recommend buying it). The best thing is you don't have to run a bunch of programs to keep junk off your computer. Don't listen to the hype that nothing is compatible. Microsoft makes an office version for Mac, and there is a Messenger for Mac. Both are completely compatible. Once in a rare while you will run into something that is only available for Windows. However, if you look hard enough, you will find a program for Mac that does the same thing. Every once in a while, something doesn't work with Safari. Firefox will work in those situations (don't even bother with Internet Explorer, it sucks).
Every time I hear people whining about their issues with PCs, and Windows, I know I made the right choice. OSX does take a little while to get used to. After I got comfortable with it, I couldn't stand Windows when I tried it again. Get one. You won't be sorry. ------------- a.k.a. H.T. http://riekels.wordpress.com" rel="nofollow - http://riekels.wordpress.com |
Posted By: Padraic
Date Posted: August 20 2007 at 10:14
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Peter, The next release of Mac OS X will feature Bootcamp, an ability to run Windows natively on Mac hardware and switch between the Windows and Mac OS at boot time. http://www.apple.com/macosx/bootcamp/ - http://www.apple.com/macosx/bootcamp/ So you can run the Mac OS most of the time, and boot into Windows if you really need to. |
Posted By: bhikkhu
Date Posted: August 20 2007 at 10:19
OK, don't use Yahoo messenger. Use Microsoft, or iChat. I love iTunes, I find it much easier to use than WMP. I also found a plugin for Safari that blocks everything (including those annoying audio ones here on PA  ).
------------- a.k.a. H.T. http://riekels.wordpress.com" rel="nofollow - http://riekels.wordpress.com |
andu wrote:Posted By: andu
Date Posted: August 20 2007 at 10:54
In this part of the world everybody uses YM, so if I didn't use it too I would be cut from the world. I know there are other messengers that can import the contact list from YM, but I have yet to see a better interface than YM's (that includes MSN, Windows Messenger, Skype, Google Talk, etc.)
I wasn't comparing ITunes to such primitive tools as Winamp, but to advanced programs such as foobar2000.
Excellent! ------------- "PA's own GI Joe!"
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Posted By: Shakespeare
Date Posted: August 20 2007 at 10:58
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I use a mac and a PC, both with PA as the homepage, there are no downsides to the Mac. Get GARAGE BAND for your mac: it's a program to make music, and it's really easy and incredibly fun to use. It's what http://www.myspace.com/joshuascammell - I've been using. (Everyone who has never used a Mac has a prejudice against it, everyone who has EVER used a mac is in love with them. Go with the apple.) |
Posted By: N Ellingworth
Date Posted: August 20 2007 at 11:19
I've used MACs in the past and hate the damn things.  |
Posted By: Peter
Date Posted: August 20 2007 at 11:55
 Hmmmm....
Opinions -- like results, it seems -- vary.
 I'm a little confused, but thanks to all for responding. I'm still willing to give the Mac a go, though -- next move is to talk to the tech guys here at work, and at my local computer store, I guess (they're good).
BTW, it was my brother in law, a recently retired IBM service rep, who recommended the Mac for me -- he has a good understanding of what I do on my computer. For the record, I am decidedly a non tech-savvy type of guy. I really know very little about computers, and the arcana of their inner workings!
Any extra comments/insights/experiences are welcome -- and how about you PA admins: any Mac - PA issues?  ------------- "And, has thou slain the Jabberwock? Come to my arms, my beamish boy! O frabjous day! Callooh! Callay!' He chortled in his joy. |
Posted By: Shakespeare
Date Posted: August 20 2007 at 12:01
Keyword: PAST! You haven't tried their new and improved junk, have ye? 100% times easier, simpler, sleeker, smoother, fast than PCs, guaranteed (with only 1 or 2 exceptions). |
Posted By: andu
Date Posted: August 20 2007 at 12:05
In this case Peter you won't really miss anything by switching to the MAC. It'll only take you a little time to get used to the interface. I recommend you to go for the MAC and also to keep your old PC. ------------- "PA's own GI Joe!"
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Posted By: E-Dub
Date Posted: August 20 2007 at 12:08
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With me being in the design industry, I pretty much have used Macs exclusively. I have a G5 here at the office, and a G4 iBook at home, and both work perfectly for PA. I've never had issues. E ------------- 
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Posted By: bhikkhu
Date Posted: August 20 2007 at 18:12
I'm a tech dinosaur too. I've actually only owned my own computer for 3.5 years. The first one I bought was a used iMac G3. I had only used Widows before. I got used to OSX pretty quickly. Three weeks after I had it, I got hit by lighting. It messed it up just enough to keep me from connecting to the internet. My only option at the time was trading it for a Compaq. Being back with Windows after that brief time with a Mac was enough to convince me. It got so I absolutely hated Windows. That's when I started saving for my G5. ------------- a.k.a. H.T. http://riekels.wordpress.com" rel="nofollow - http://riekels.wordpress.com |
Posted By: N Ellingworth
Date Posted: August 21 2007 at 03:00
I'm tech savvy enough to build and maintaim my own PCs so I don't really care whether Macs are easier to use of not Plus Macs are not really gaming machines which is what I mainly use my PC as. As for faster I seriuosly doubt that any MAC is faster than my current PC |
Posted By: Leningrad
Date Posted: August 21 2007 at 14:30
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One problem for me with Macs is that games that have been downloaded off the internet usually don't work.
I'm not sure if this applies to you, but it's probably good to know anyway.
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Posted By: rileydog22
Date Posted: August 21 2007 at 22:05
Actually, I had to use Macs a few years in school and found PCs to be much easier to use. -------------   |
Posted By: Shakespeare
Date Posted: August 22 2007 at 11:31
Yeah, that's because they get the stupid macs. They don't pay the $1400 for the top-of-the-line labtops. The school ones suck, my school uses those. Also, you may have grew up using PCs (like me) and got used to them. But if you were given a nice, top of the line mac, and used it a lot, and got used to, I'm sure you would prefer it. |
Posted By: bhikkhu
Date Posted: August 22 2007 at 11:58
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There is really one basic question that needs to be asked. Are you a big fan of viruses, spyware (and the prigrams you need to have constantly running to combat this) , and freeze-ups? ------------- a.k.a. H.T. http://riekels.wordpress.com" rel="nofollow - http://riekels.wordpress.com |
Posted By: Shakespeare
Date Posted: August 23 2007 at 19:43
 (Not to mention having to download each individual update separately, and having to restart for each one, whereas Macs let you update a handful and restart once for all of them.) Long live the Mac.
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Posted By: andu
Date Posted: August 23 2007 at 20:16
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^ You can set up the Windows updates to happen exactly when you want them to... which of course doesn't make Windows safer than Mac's own, but I just wanted to correct that factual error.
------------- "PA's own GI Joe!"
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Posted By: Shakespeare
Date Posted: August 23 2007 at 20:19
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Posted By: andu
Date Posted: August 23 2007 at 20:28
What exactly didn't you say? 'cause I wasn't putting any words in your mouth (again I tell you that). And again I'm telling you you're wrong: you can download whatever downloads you need for your Windows, and install (hence restart) all of them at once. Or you can download and install them, and make one restart for all of them whenever you want. Maybe you use a different Windows than I - myself I have XP SP2. ------------- "PA's own GI Joe!"
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Posted By: Shakespeare
Date Posted: August 23 2007 at 20:33
.....When I started with this new computer, I had a slew of updates for every program, and I had to do a restart for each individually, I couldn't find a way to do them all with 1 restart. On my mac, when I went through the same process, the huge list of updates only required 1 restart. That's all I'm saying. But whatever, it's not a big deal. It's not like that one aspect would make one better than the other, anyway. I don't really care...let's let this discussion die, it's not going anywhere anyway, we're both just repeating ourselves. |
Posted By: stonebeard
Date Posted: August 23 2007 at 20:37
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My friend got a Mac laptop before college, and he took it everywhere he went with our friends. Everywhere. And he was on it all the time, practically. I believe it took his soul, much in the way the Aborigines of Australia believe photographs can take your soul. For this reason, I suggest a PC.
------------- http://soundcloud.com/drewagler" rel="nofollow - My soundcloud. Please give feedback if you want! |
Posted By: andu
Date Posted: August 23 2007 at 20:38
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Wait, did you mean OS (system) updates, or program updates? Anyway, it's mostly the same for program updates too - you don't need to restart after each program updated, it only says the update will take effect only after restart (which is actually only a precaution, usually the update effects apply even before the restart). ------------- "PA's own GI Joe!"
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Posted By: andu
Date Posted: August 23 2007 at 20:42
The PC creates the same addiction, the only problem is that it's so damn big and complicated that it can't be moved easily (hence the thumbs up for Mac's system architects!). Whenever I don't get to be around my PC for a full 24 hrs, I get filled with paranoid anxiety The worst thing however is when my Internet loses connection - after two hours I start shrieking and when the connection comes back, I feel the urge to implant the wires directly into my arms's veins for better feed andu, get a life!  ------------- "PA's own GI Joe!"
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Posted By: rileydog22
Date Posted: August 24 2007 at 00:23
Oh man; it's incredible how inconvenient it is to run AdAware and Spybot once a week. I can honestly say I've never had a problem with viruses or spyware, and that anybody with a fully-functioning brain can quite easily avoid problems without any inconvenience. ------------- |
Posted By: bhikkhu
Date Posted: August 24 2007 at 01:07
I just find it counterproductive. On my old PC, I had to have three programs in constant operation. If I didn't, the freeze-ups would be even more frequent (in other words, it happened anyway). With the Mac, I don't have to run any protective software, and it never freezes. ------------- a.k.a. H.T. http://riekels.wordpress.com" rel="nofollow - http://riekels.wordpress.com |
Posted By: N Ellingworth
Date Posted: August 24 2007 at 03:04
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Window Vista has done a lot to improve PC security as the built in firewall is very good. You don't need to run an anti-virus program like Norton which hogs your computer's resources, instead go for one like Avast which is barely noticable and finally don't use Internet Explorer as it's full of holes for Viruses and Spyware to get through, Firefox and Opera are much bettter options for web browsing. |
Posted By: rileydog22
Date Posted: August 24 2007 at 03:40
I generally defend PC's, but I just can't find it in my heart to defend Vista. It's the same as XP, except they uglified the color scheme, killed the Run menu and Telnet ( ), made the start menu less convenient, and added a few security fixes that they probably could have just put in a Windows Update (and that are unnecessary if you have anti-virus software, which everyone should). That hardly seems worth paying the money for an upgrade. I'm just fine with XP, thanks.
------------- |
Posted By: Shakespeare
Date Posted: August 24 2007 at 16:48
| And, besides, PC stole ideas from Mac OS X for Vista. |
Posted By: bhikkhu
Date Posted: August 24 2007 at 21:54
Vista was Windows playing catch-up with OSX. Now that it has finally arrived, Apple is about to unveil Leopard. Oh, and I don't know why we didn't mention this before, but if you absolutely can't live without Windows, there are Intel-Macs. ------------- a.k.a. H.T. http://riekels.wordpress.com" rel="nofollow - http://riekels.wordpress.com |
Posted By: 1800iareyay
Date Posted: August 24 2007 at 21:58
| I love my new mac. That is my technical input. |
Posted By: Padraic
Date Posted: August 24 2007 at 22:09
I did mention this before. And besides, Linux FTW!! |
Posted By: rileydog22
Date Posted: August 24 2007 at 22:38
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I've barely used it (booted a couple of times in Ubuntu and Knoppix in order to move around some system files Windows wouldn't let me touch), but I can't help but love Linux. It's just so awesome that everything is non-profit and open-sourced, put together for free by the warm-hearted coders of the world. ------------- |
Posted By: Padraic
Date Posted: August 24 2007 at 22:50
I've been running Linux at work (previous job, and now at my new one) for the past five years. I've most been running Redhat/Fedora, but now I'm sold on Ubuntu. Linux has made great strides in that time - used to be you had to edit config files just to get your damn monitor to work properly, but with the latest Ubuntu on my laptop, everything "just works" (including wireless, which used to be a real PITA). For those who don't need the PC for a lot of games and/or specialized apps, I heartily recommend Ubuntu. |
Posted By: bhikkhu
Date Posted: August 24 2007 at 22:58
Whoops. Musta missed that.
------------- a.k.a. H.T. http://riekels.wordpress.com" rel="nofollow - http://riekels.wordpress.com |
Posted By: Shakespeare
Date Posted: August 24 2007 at 23:00
| Loser |
Posted By: rileydog22
Date Posted: August 24 2007 at 23:06
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And, if I'm not mistaken, Windows 1.0 borrowed quite heavily from the Apple Lisa operating system. So it could be argued that Microsoft has been stealing ideas from Apple ever since Microsoft was founded. ------------- |
Posted By: Shakespeare
Date Posted: August 25 2007 at 16:51
 |
Posted By: Peter
Date Posted: August 26 2007 at 23:55
 I don't understand most of what you guys are talking about, but I understood that. Thanks for all of the input, though. From what I can gather, there seems to be no major drawbacks to a Mac, and they're generally virus & freezeup free. That sounds good.
I'll let you all know here what I eventually do. ------------- "And, has thou slain the Jabberwock? Come to my arms, my beamish boy! O frabjous day! Callooh! Callay!' He chortled in his joy. |
Posted By: Peter
Date Posted: November 15 2007 at 02:05
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Well, if anyone is still interested, I opted for another PC in the end (just fired it up today, in fact -- up too late trying it out).
The Apple was just too big a leap into the unknown, and this PC seems to be a better gaming platform. I also wanted it to be fully compatible with the network at work (PC), and with all of the games my kids and I already have.
It is very powerful, apparently, with a really good video card, a "quadcore" processor (whatever that is
 ), a 22" flatscreen Acer monitor, Microsoft Vista, and all the latest bells & whistles.Cost me just under 2000 Canadian (that's a little over $2000 US) -- just about the most one could spend for just a generic tower & a 22" monitor.
I like it -- & my kids love it.
Maybe I'll still get an Apple some day....
Goodnight, techies!  ------------- "And, has thou slain the Jabberwock? Come to my arms, my beamish boy! O frabjous day! Callooh! Callay!' He chortled in his joy. |
Posted By: goose
Date Posted: November 15 2007 at 03:20
For sure, why not? I have to use OS 9, OS X, and to a lesser extent XP at work, but I've run nothing but Ubuntu at home and it does everything I need. And it's much easier to update to a new version because I don't have to go out to some shop and buy a CD, it just does it for me every six months. Wonderful! |
Posted By: N Ellingworth
Date Posted: November 15 2007 at 03:23
Basically a quadcore processor is 4 individual processors (or cores) in one chip. |
Posted By: KoS
Date Posted: November 15 2007 at 03:42
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I just don't get when people say that macs don't freeze. My high school used top of the line macs in its design department and they always froze and had a bunch of issues with Photoshop.
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Posted By: Trademark
Date Posted: November 16 2007 at 09:58
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People say the don't freeze because they don'tr freeze. I use Photoshop, MOTU Digital Perfornmer, Final Cut, Finale etc. 5-6 hours a day every day and I've never had a freeze up. EVER!
Your loss Peter, you had the chance to get a Ferrari and you chose the Yugo instead. |
Posted By: RKS1987
Date Posted: November 16 2007 at 10:34
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If you are suggesting a PC is a Yugo and a Mac is a Ferrari you should probably reexamine your life.
------------- As there was no venture capital involved, the operation was fairly modest in its beginnings. We lived in a cave, and records were kept in encrypted cuneiform on tree leaves hidden inside snake pits. |
Posted By: clarke2001
Date Posted: November 16 2007 at 10:59
Hey! Don't you dare to bash my Yugo! ------------- |
Posted By: Seyo
Date Posted: November 16 2007 at 14:04
Mine too! 
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Posted By: Visitor13
Date Posted: November 16 2007 at 14:11
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What about the most important thing - PC games support on a Mac.
EDIT: Reading a bit further into the thread I see that the Mac fails in this field, so it's the PC for me. Though if I ever take up a more tech-reliant job, I'll get a Mac. |
Posted By: Padraic
Date Posted: November 16 2007 at 14:17
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Peter, Congratulations on the new machine! Enjoy. |
Posted By: RKS1987
Date Posted: November 16 2007 at 14:33
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I consider is an unfair comparison, if anything mac is a yugo and a pc is a ferrari.
------------- As there was no venture capital involved, the operation was fairly modest in its beginnings. We lived in a cave, and records were kept in encrypted cuneiform on tree leaves hidden inside snake pits. |
Posted By: Visitor13
Date Posted: November 16 2007 at 14:34
As far as I've managed to find out, you can drive both on a PC and neither on a Mac. |
Posted By: Slartibartfast
Date Posted: November 16 2007 at 14:50
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For what it's worthless, I've been working on PCs all my computing life and have no Mac experience. The drafting software I use (AutoCAD) only works on PC, so I'm basically stuck in PC world. ------------- Released date are often when it it impacted you but recorded dates are when it really happened... 
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Posted By: goose
Date Posted: November 16 2007 at 18:21
I have had plenty of crashes on OS X, running on G4s (or maybe G5s), using MAX/MSP and Logic 5, neither of which I've ever seen problems with on Windows. That startup sound became the bane of my life last year. Happily this year I admin the computers at work, and while every single one has crashed in a variety of colourful ways (apart from the very newest PC) they've always been fixable by me. Anecdotal evidence means nothing, the only important thing is what works for your individual needs. Well, that and personal freedoms but that's an entirely separate issue . Since MOTU are intent on locking everyone into OS X you couldn't use anything else even if you wanted to . |
Posted By: Trademark
Date Posted: November 16 2007 at 20:03
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You can run any PC software on the new macs as well so your silly little games can be played. You just use Bootcamp (standard equipment on all the new machines) which is an application that will dumb-down the Mac enough to run Windows.
BTW Max Matthews (the founder of MAX/MSP) wouldn't be cought dead using a PC. MAX is designed for native use on the Mac. I've used it regularly for 4 years and never had a crash. I'd look for a more capable admin for your lab. I've run a 15 station all Mac MIDI lab for 2 full years with less than 4 hours of down-time. |
Posted By: rileydog22
Date Posted: November 16 2007 at 23:29
Shut up. ------------- |
Posted By: Peter
Date Posted: November 16 2007 at 23:44
Thanks NatSci, and to all for the comments, advice and interest.
Happy computing -- Mac or PC! ------------- "And, has thou slain the Jabberwock? Come to my arms, my beamish boy! O frabjous day! Callooh! Callay!' He chortled in his joy. |
Posted By: Shakespeare
Date Posted: November 16 2007 at 23:55
pwnt |
Posted By: Peter
Date Posted: November 16 2007 at 23:56
 !------------- "And, has thou slain the Jabberwock? Come to my arms, my beamish boy! O frabjous day! Callooh! Callay!' He chortled in his joy. |
Posted By: Peter
Date Posted: November 17 2007 at 00:00
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I'll tell you what though: upgrading to a 22" monitor rocks -- great definition, & very easy to read!
(And the flat design takes up so much less space than my old one did!)  ------------- "And, has thou slain the Jabberwock? Come to my arms, my beamish boy! O frabjous day! Callooh! Callay!' He chortled in his joy. |
Posted By: Visitor13
Date Posted: November 17 2007 at 12:39
| Just looked at the local Mac dealer's price list, and I'll just say this - the occasional (minor) trouble with a PC is well worth the money saved - yikes! |
Posted By: goose
Date Posted: November 18 2007 at 08:39
I'm afraid Max Matthews isn't the founder of either MAX or MSP - the software he wrote (MUSIC) was originally written in the '50s and hence predates Macs by a good twenty five years! Miller Puckette did indeed originally write MAX for the Macintosh (which makes it all the more surprising that I've never seen a single crash on Windows!), but most of its later developments such as FTS and MSP were written for UNIX systems in the years before Macs moved over to a Mach kernel. Pd (perhaps the software he's most heavily involved in these days, but I couldn't be sure), upon which MSP is largely based, was open source from the start and thus ported to most modern operating systems. However, all of this is rather off-topic since Peter has a computer he's happy with |