Video:

First, welcome to ProgArchives.  We hope you are enjoying yourself.  There is a great deal to see and do here, including posting reviews, participating in discussions, and starting discussion threads (like this one).

Re Styx, I don't think it is so much that anyone "hates" them (given that at least a few people are bound to hate a particular thing).  Rather, it is more likely a matter of how each member defines the term "prog rock" for themselves, and whether they consider Styx truly "prog" in the sense that that particular member believes.  For example, I personally do not believe that Styx fall under "prog" as I understand that term.  I may even like some of their stuff, but that does not mean I believe it is "progressive" in the definition that I have of "progressive."

Ultimately though, however I - or any individual member - might personally define "progressive," the only definition that "counts" at ProgArchives is the "official" one created by the site's webmasters.  I, and others, can "agree to disagree" about that definition.  However, where the site is concerned - and what bands are included, and what bands are not - that decision is at the sole and exclusive discretion of the webmasters.  They have chosen to include Styx on the site, and although I disagree with that decision, I nevertheless respect it.

Sorry for the long-winded answer...  Hope it's helpful.

Peace.

Video: I sincerely hope that your'e not a fan of Phil Collins also, if it is so you will be even more disappointed...

The fact is that those two artist in particular had become the "funny to mess with" in this forum. Nothing personal, is related to the perception of mundanity that they spread around. At least that's how I see it.

Babe is one of my favourite Styx songs (*also the only song I know of them).

I am planning on buying a very best of collection, they may be prog-lite, but in a way, that's my taste.
(I like Yes, Marillion, Pendragon, Supertramp, Queen, Genesis, and other melodic bands, so i think Styx might fit nicely in my collection)

tuxon:

Excu-u-u-use me?  You dare mention Styx in the same breath as Marillion, Genesis et al?  A plague on your house!

tuxon:

Excu-u-u-use me?  You dare mention Styx in the same breath as Marillion, Genesis et al?  A plague on your house!

You dare to do the same knowingly (I don't know Styx well enough), I'll ask 3fates for a spell or two to cast on you and your record-collection, that it may forever be tainted, with a vague Styx like sound

Marillion, Genesis, Styx, Mariah Carey, Boyzone, Andy Williams, Judy Garland, Westlife, Radiohead, ELP.

That lot should get the whole village cursed!

Easy:

You forgot Peter Frampton.

Peace.

maani wrote:   Ultimately though, however I - or any individual member - might personally define "progressive," the only definition that "counts" at ProgArchives is the "official" one created by the site's webmasters.  I, and others, can "agree to disagree" about that definition.  However, where the site is concerned - and what bands are included, and what bands are not - that decision is at the sole and exclusive discretion of the webmasters.  They have chosen to include Styx on the site, and although I disagree with that decision, I nevertheless respect it. Peace.

Bloody hell Maani,you been a lawyerin a past life? Reminds me of the Sanity Clause sketch from the Marx Brothers "Animal Crackers"

Otis B. Driftwood (Groucho):Fiorello (Chico)

Driftwood: Says, "The party of the first part shall be known in this contract as the party of the first part."

Fiorello: Sounds a little better this time.

Driftwood: Well, it grows on you...Would you like to hear it once more?

Fiorello: Ah...Just the first part.

Driftwood: What do you mean, the party of the first part?

Fiorello: No. The first part of the party of the first part.

Driftwood: Alright it says the umm..."The first part of the party of the first part shall be known in this contract as the first part of the party of the first part, shall be known in this contract...LOOK...why should we quarrel about a thing like this. We'll take it right out eh? (Tears off sections of contract.)

Fiorello: Ha ha, it's too long anyhow! (rip rip) Now what do we got left?

Driftwood: Well, I've got about a foot and a half. Now it says, http://www.whyaduck.com/sounds/opera/party.wav - "The party of the second part shall be know in this contract as the party of the second part."

Fiorello: Well I don't know about that.

Driftwood: NOW what's the matter?

Fiorello: http://www.whyaduck.com/sounds/opera/party.wav - I don't like the second party either.

Driftwood: http://www.whyaduck.com/sounds/opera/party.wav - Well you should have been at the first party, we didn't get home till around four in the morning...I was blind for three days.

Fiorello: Ay...Look, why can't the first part of the second party be the second part of the first party? Thena you got something!

Driftwood: Well look...ah...Rather than go through all that again, what do you say? (Tears off another section.)

Fiorello: Fine.

Driftwood: Now...ah...Now I've got something here you're bound to like. You'll be crazy about it.

Fiorello: No, I don't like it.

Driftwood: You don't like what?

Fiorello: Whatever it is, I don't like it.

Driftwood: Well let's not break up an old friendship over a thing like that! Ready?

Fiorello: Okay. (rip) Now the next part I don't think you're gonna like.

Driftwood: Well your word's good enough for me...Now then, is my word good enough for you?

Fiorello: I should say not.

Driftwood: Well that takes out two more clauses. (rip) Now the party of the eighth part...

Fiorello: No. Nooo. (rip)

Driftwood: No? The party of the ninth...

Fiorello: No, that's no good too. (rip) Hey, how is it my contract is skinnier than yours?

Driftwood: I dunno, you musta been out on a tear last night. But anyhow we're all set now, aren't we?

Fiorello: Ah, sure.

Driftwood: Now just eh...(hands Fiorello a pen) Put your name right down there and then the deal is eh...Then the deal is legal.

Fiorello: Eh, I forgot to tell you. I can't write.

Driftwood: (shaking the pen) Well that's okay, there's no ink in the pen anyhow. But listen, it's a contract, isn't it?

Fiorello: Oh sure. You bet.

Driftwood: We've got a contract, no matter how small it is!

Fiorello: Hey wait, wait! What does this say here? This thing here?

Driftwood: Oh that. Oh that's the usual clause...that's in every contract. That just says...eh...it says...eh..."If any of the parties participating in this contract are shown not to be in their right mind, the entire agreement is automatically nullified."

Fiorello: Well, I don't know...

Driftwood: http://www.whyaduck.com/sounds/opera/sanity.wav - It's alright, that's in every contract! That's what they call a "sanity clause."

Fiorello: http://www.whyaduck.com/sounds/opera/sanity.wav - Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha...you can't fool me. There ain't no sanity clause!

Oh,suit yourelves-I like it!

Styx did not go in for more progressive sounds.  I think Dennis De Young always considered himself a pop singer. Tommy Shaw gave some hard rock sound to thier later 70's recordings (Grand Illusion and after) that they became radio friendly and received a lot of airplay in turn became very popular.  I like some of their music but I don't listen to them as a prog band.

Reed Lover:

Absolutely among the most brilliant skits in any Marx Bros. film. 

By the way, although I never went as far as becoming a lawyer (i.e., going to law school and taking the Bar exam), I spent over a decade as a legal assistant (somewhere between a paralegal and an Associate), primarily in contract law.  I also served for 15 years as an Advocate in Manhattan Civil Court, including litigating in tenant-landlord, small claims and civil cases.

Peace.

maani wrote: Reed Lover: Absolutely among the most brilliant skits in any Marx Bros. film.  By the way, although I never went as far as becoming a lawyer (i.e., going to law school and taking the Bar exam), I spent over a decade as a legal assistant (somewhere between a paralegal and an Associate), primarily in contract law.  I also served for 15 years as an Advocate in Manhattan Civil Court, including litigating in tenant-landlord, small claims and civil cases. Peace.

And with that paragraph it shows!

I think Styx may be regarded progressive because many people think that synths=prog. When there's really a bit more to it than that

maani wrote: Video: First, welcome to ProgArchives.  We hope you are enjoying yourself.  There is a great deal to see and do here, including posting reviews, participating in discussions, and starting discussion threads (like this one).

I have been around for about a year (though I just started posting a month ago) I'm familiar with the place

Almost a decade ago, I was in a prog-wannabe band and the bass player suggested covering Styx ... "No" yelled I, having heard only Babe, Renegade and Mr. Roboto ... and then this guy played me Come Sail Away ... for that one, indisputably progressive song alone ... I rate Styx  highly ...

In later years I've got to hear Styx-style prog in songs like Suite Madame Blue, The Grand Illusion and there also some moments like the keyboard solo in Crystal Ball that I would think would appeal to most prog fans ... but there is also a lot of straight-forward FM rock that's little different from the fields that Boston or Foreigner (who had their own great quasi-prog song in Starrider) were ploughing at the time ...

Styx are definitely an uneven band ... even those who like them will make all sorts of qualifying statements

When StyX makes album such as Grand Illusion and Crystal Ball , they are great - not very prog but great.

Their earlier (first four)and proggier are patchy at best and sloppy at worst.

After Pieces of Eight (excellent radio-friendly FM rock), Cornerstone was not that bad but held the horrible Babe. Paradise Theater was  not a bad concept but they were much too pompous.

And then their major mistake came and discredited them for many years to come and it even brought the band to break up. Loyal fan base fled but other came mainly though the MTV videoclip. Mr. Lobotto  has done permanent damage on their career. Stynx

I was actually surprised they had a career in the 90's. I spent my youth in Canada but moved to Europe at the end of the 80's and Styx was never big or even well-known. If you can believe that they opened concert for Saga in the 80's on the continent, this was hard to belive for Northern Americans.

Nothing personal and this bashing thing is good-natured or else they would not be on the site.

Now please do not go bash Mariah if you want to make friends in this forum.

I always have to defend Styx. And as you'll see on this very thread, many of the people that dislike them aren't exactly familiar with the bulk of their catalog. So maybe the bashing comes from ignorance of their material rather than familiarity. There are some prog or prog-ish gems on all their albums, up to and including Pieces Of Eight (I would especially recommended 'The Serpent Is Rising', 'Equinox' and 'Crystal Ball'...and of course 'The Grand Illusion')...but after that...look the hell out, they really started to suck. 

because it is epic pop, and that isn't supposed to make sense

Aaron

I believe people is unfair with STYX, because in the best of the cases they were the simples possible form of art rock musicians, always played at the border that divides Prog from plain pop, later albums are more prog oriented than later ones, so you can't compare a light weight as STYX (In prog' terms) with Heavyweights like Yes, Genesis or even ELP.

When John Curulewsky was replaced by Tommy Shaw, almost all the hopes of being aprog' band left with him, but what they lost in proggieness they gained in sound.

If you listen them forgetting they are barely prog', you'll find they have soome great stuff.

The Grand Illusion has only one remotely prog' track (Fooling Yourself), but the album is outstanding in musical terms, all the tracks are good and they don't have a single filler. I'm not ashamed to admit I still enjoy some of their  stuff  ubtil Cornerstone (Except Babe) very much when I'm in the right mood.

Iván

Well Rob, I believe Supertramp's earlier albums like Crime of the Century, Crisis What's Crisis or Even in the Quietest Moments are much closer to prog' than Breakfast in America.

A Soapbox Opera, School, Crime of the Century  and Fool's Overture are is  wonderfull and 100% prog tracks.

But I agree BIA is not remotely progressive.

Iván

ivan_2068 wrote: . The Grand Illusion has only one remotely prog' track (Fooling Yourself), but the album is outstanding in musical terms, all the tracks are good and they don't have a single filler. I'm not ashamed to admit I still enjoy some of their  stuff  ubtil Cornerstone (Except Babe) very much when I'm in the right mood. Iván

"Castle Walls", "The  Grand Finale" and "Come Sail Away" are definitely more than remotely prog. And 'Cornerstone' is an awful, bland, boring, thin, weak, no-reason-to-exist BAD BAD BAD album.

I don't like 'Cornerstone' much.