FInal Cut: A PF or Waters album?
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Topic: FInal Cut: A PF or Waters album?
Posted By: Wizard/TRueStar
Subject: FInal Cut: A PF or Waters album?
Date Posted: February 28 2005 at 15:28
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I'm not asking because I don't know, If you thought that. TFC gets a lot of people yapping about it being a Roger Waters solo album because it was all his input. I disagree. This piece would not sound the same without David and Nick even though Roger wrote the whole thing. How about those SOLOS!!!! OMG!!!! Those are my favorite Gilmour solos. And Nick too! His parts are few but they are intense! A very intense and moving piece over all, even more intensified by David and Nick playing on the album. |
Replies:
Posted By: greenback
Date Posted: February 28 2005 at 15:33
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the solos!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! the solos!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!1 gilmour produced OUTSTANDING solos on it!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! ask 3-fates!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! the compositions are however waterian! so, gilmourian solos, and waterian arrangements, if not kamenian! ------------- [HEADPINS - LINE OF FIRE: THE RECORD HAVING THE MOST POWERFUL GUITAR SOUND IN THE WHOLE HISTORY OF MUSIC!> |
Posted By: Blacksword
Date Posted: February 28 2005 at 15:40
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David Gilmour found working with Waters unbearable at this point. Waters wanted Gilmour to come off the production credits for the album, which he did. Waters felt it was more his project than a PF album. The concept was his, and he was trying to distance himself from the others as much as possible. The bad feeling had well taken root by The Wall, and Gilmour felt that the songs on The Final Cut were rejects from the Wall sessions. Personally, I can take or leave TFC, but I dont think its as bad as Gilmour claimed. I guess his appraisal of the album was tainted by the ill feeling between him and Waters. ------------- Ultimately bored by endless ecstasy! |
Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: February 28 2005 at 15:42
| Although I consider it a Waters album, I still love it--The Gunner's Dream especially. What a great song. |
Posted By: frenchie
Date Posted: February 28 2005 at 16:05
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i wish i cud have voted for RW album AND the album sucks! ------------- The Worthless Recluse 
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Posted By: Vegetableman
Date Posted: February 28 2005 at 16:42
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Davids contributions were the guitars, rather obviously. But it is a Waters album ------------- "Mister Fripp, your music is quite different than everything else out there. In one word, how would you describe it?" "Progressive.... yeah, that's it..." |
Posted By: Cluster One
Date Posted: February 28 2005 at 16:59
It is a Pink Floyd album. Says so right there on the cover...  ------------- Marmalade...I like marmalade. |
Posted By: FloydWright
Date Posted: February 28 2005 at 17:01
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While I do rate David's playing contributions as important, I think of it mainly as a Roger Waters album with guest musicians (I should also add Michael Kamen as an important guest on this one).
As far as Roger's solo albums, this would be the best one he's done. None of the rest stacked up to this. Amused to Death got close, but not quite. |
Posted By: threefates
Date Posted: February 28 2005 at 17:46
Never really liked this album. The only thing I do like is the guitar solos. To me that doesn't make it a Floyd album... just as Floyd Wright said... Waters with contract musicians... and Roger's voice has always irritated the crap out of me...  He should of atleast let Dave sing...------------- THIS IS ELP 
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Posted By: Lunarscape
Date Posted: February 28 2005 at 18:14
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TFC was originally to be the third side of TW album, but the record company didnt allow PF to put a Triple record on the market so the stuff on TFC was released later. The relations between band members had deteriorated badly after TW was released and Waters remixed TFC almost on his own with guest musicians, and the album was released as a PF recording, to satisfy a contract, between PF and the record company. Personally I believe it to be a great album with higher musical standards than TW. Great compositions and the technical output is finer than that of TW. The Finall Cut just proves that Roger Waters is indeed Mr Pink Floyd and without him, the remains just survived on the Brand Name and would have been better off calling themselves "The David Gilmore Blues Band" or whatever. ________ Lunar ------------- Music Is The Soul Bird That Flies In The Immense Heart Of The Listener . . . |
Posted By: Cygnus X-2
Date Posted: February 28 2005 at 18:23
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It's too hit or miss to me. Roger Waters was really just putting the "final cut" on the whole "My Daddy Died in the War" notion that we got from the Wall. I enjoy the solos, the best song on that album is Not Now John. ------------- 
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Posted By: Possessed
Date Posted: February 28 2005 at 18:24
| It's a Roger Waters album. Here's my reasoning. It's like a stripped down Pink Floyd album with phoned in performances from David Gilmour and Nick Mason. Roger the egomaniac now has complete control of every aspect of the band. It's also very similar in musical style to The Pros and Cons of Hitch Hiking, Roger's next album. |
Posted By: Cluster One
Date Posted: February 28 2005 at 18:30
This statement is completely false. 
Are you sure about these two points? 
Better musically than "The Wall"? A better mix maybe...
Agreed! 
Many, many Floyd fans would disagree with this statement, especially Gilmour (not Gilmore) supporters ------------- Marmalade...I like marmalade. |
Lunarscape wrote:Posted By: Lunarscape
Date Posted: February 28 2005 at 18:48
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The info was printed, I cant recall where, just after the release of TFC. Recently I discussed the matter with Maani over pm's and this piece of info was brought up again. ______ Lunar
------------- Music Is The Soul Bird That Flies In The Immense Heart Of The Listener . . . |
Posted By: Vegetableman
Date Posted: February 28 2005 at 19:18
There is nothing true about that....
------------- "Mister Fripp, your music is quite different than everything else out there. In one word, how would you describe it?" "Progressive.... yeah, that's it..." |
Posted By: Vegetableman
Date Posted: February 28 2005 at 19:23
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I don't know where people get this "My Daddy Died in the War" notion all over the Wall & TFC from. Three songs... Another Brick in the Wall 1, The Post War Dream, and When the Tigers Broke Free only mentioned anything about his father, give or take one I may have forgotten ------------- "Mister Fripp, your music is quite different than everything else out there. In one word, how would you describe it?" "Progressive.... yeah, that's it..." |
Posted By: Hangedman
Date Posted: February 28 2005 at 21:24
| Interesting topic, although i only warmed up to TFC about two weeks ago I still think its more a waters album than anything. I didn't like it initially because the band works together so well as a team (if you dont believe me dogs and echoes... nuff said) but it is a good album (so is hitchiking by waters) but not pink floyd. |
Posted By: John Gargo
Date Posted: February 28 2005 at 22:22
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It's a Pink Floyd album, and the last one worth owning. |
Posted By: threefates
Date Posted: February 28 2005 at 22:35
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Actually on the back of that album it says: the final cut : a requiem for the post war dream by Roger Waters, performed by Pink Floyd... That says to me that it was a Roger Waters album.... the other members of Floyd were just there as contracted performers... You want an interesting read on this.... go here: Click on "Trivia" http://www.pinkfloyd-co.net/disco/tfc/tfc_album.html - http://www.pinkfloyd-co.net/disco/tfc/tfc_album.html
------------- THIS IS ELP
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Posted By: Man Overboard
Date Posted: February 28 2005 at 22:51
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I read somewhere that when it was time to record The Wall, Waters had
three demos... The Wall, The Final Cut, and The Pros And Cons Of
Hitchhiking. But I could be wrong, maybe I'm thinking of TFC's
recording and it being TFC and TPACOH. *shrug*
------------- https://soundcloud.com/erin-susan-jennings" rel="nofollow - Bedroom guitarist". Composer, Arranger, Producer. Perfection may not exist, but I may still choose to serve Perfection. Commissions considered. |
Posted By: Rob The Good
Date Posted: February 28 2005 at 23:02
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The Final Cut is, to me, a blatant Roger Waters outing. There were huge "This is Roger Waters" overtones in The Wall, and The Final Cut just made it worse.
Personally, I've always felt annoyed by Roger's voice, and I don't know how many people will agree with me on this, but I prefer to consider The Division Bell as the last Pink Floyd album. At least TDB has some elements which harken back to Floyd's golden age. ------------- And Jesus said unto John, "come forth and receive eternal life..." Unfortunately, John came fifth and was stuck with a toaster. |
Posted By: Cygnus X-2
Date Posted: March 01 2005 at 00:32
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The Division Bell is THE LAST Pink Floyd studio album. PULSE is their last live album. -------------
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Posted By: James Lee
Date Posted: March 01 2005 at 01:33
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If Pink Floyd was >25% Waters up to and including Animals, but perhaps as much as >33%-50% during the Wall, then The Final Cut contained no less than >50% Waters. But then that would mean that "The Pros and Cons of Hitchhiking" could contain at least 25% Pink Floyd...which would mean that it deserved to be called a Pink Floyd album as much as The Final Cut, or even The Wall (but less than Momentary Lapse or Division Bell, which was no less than 75% Pink Floyd- or possibly as little as 60%, if you factor in the Barrett percentage as being absent all these years). Is it by weight or by volume? If you act now, we'll send you 25% MORE Pink Floyd for the same LOW LOW price!! ------------- http://www.last.fm/user/sollipsist/?chartstyle=kaonashi"> 
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Posted By: arcer
Date Posted: March 01 2005 at 02:21
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A Waters album and the only good 'solo' album he ever made. All his songs but informed by the style and grace of Gilmour. After that, there was no buffer to Roger's rampant ego. Pros and Cons, Radio KAOS, Amused to Death - oh dear. Just as well that Pros and Cons was never accepted as a Floyd project. But then again maybe Gilmour and Wright could have turned it into something respectable. I actually love Final Cut - it's depressing as hell and annoying in places but is the prefect companion piece to the Wall and is kind of a fitting end to Floyd (they were never 'Pink Floyd' after 1983 IMO). Fitting in that it's downbeat, misanthropic, cynical, weary and bitter - the right mood for a band in the midst of implosion. After 83 we had the Roger Waters Experience versus the David Gilmour Band - neither was Floyd and neither made records of anything but passing interest. Ever more furiously impotent bleating from Roger and some nice solos and noodling atmospherics from David but nothing more I'm afraid.
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Posted By: Vibrationbaby
Date Posted: March 02 2005 at 13:40
| I actually liked it for it`s phenomenal engineering as well as for guest guitarist David Gilmour. I don`t even think it was performed live. I was in the air force when it was released and didn`t really have time for music. Can anyone out there tell me if they toured on this one or just packed it in. Ivoted Roger Waters solo album. |
Posted By: Cluster One
Date Posted: March 02 2005 at 13:56
Nope, the FLOYD certainly never toured this album!  Roger has performed a number of pieces from it while he was touring his solo albums. 'Get Your Filthy Hands Off My Desert' and 'Southampton Dock' come to mind offhand. ------------- Marmalade...I like marmalade. |
Posted By: FloydWright
Date Posted: March 02 2005 at 14:42
Now, I think you are right when you say that the album had higher musical standards than The Wall...absolutely. And from a production standpoint it's doubly incredible, with the use of Holophonics. And, I know a lot of people complain about Roger Waters' voice, but I like it here. Maybe (seriously) it's the same thing that makes me like James LaBrie's voice when he gets really loud and yowly. But Waters' singing is a lot more varied and he takes more care with the quality of it than he ever does before or after this. He actually moves me with his singing on the title track. Overall, I think it's a decent album...and I say this as a Rick Wright fan. When I hear good work, I give it the credit it's due. However, I still think it's an (almost) entirely different creature from a Pink Floyd album. The closest thing to it is Roger Waters' solo album The Pros and Cons of Hitchhiking...which unfortunately is not close to the calibre as The Final Cut, but it's very obviously the same composer and technique (which is very distinct from the full Pink Floyd sound, to my ear). It's got an entirely different sound, because of the major influence by Michael Kamen which separates it dramatically from the Floyd. The chord progressions are for the most part extremely simple; the focus is totally different from a Floyd album...it's on the lyrics rather than the music, more like Bob Dylan than a musically-oriented prog band. The only real things that suggest a relation to Pink Floyd at all are Roger Waters' voice and David Gilmour's solos. That's pretty much the only tie left to Pink Floyd, as far as I'm concerned. Again, I don't hate this album at all...I just think of it as a very different thing from a Pink Floyd work. |
Posted By: Prog_head
Date Posted: March 02 2005 at 14:46
| I can remember someone saying that the Pros and cons... album was meant to be the third disc of the wall but i cannot remember the source. |
Posted By: Reed Lover
Date Posted: March 02 2005 at 14:47
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Their isnt enough musical content on The Final Cut- a trend that kinda started with The Wall and has got progressively worse through Water's solo career.I actually agree 100% with Mr FloydWright in his post. I also like FloydWright's idea that they evolved into a strange Bob Dylan/Prog Rock hybrid.
------------- 
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Posted By: Possessed
Date Posted: March 02 2005 at 14:48
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Posted By: Prog_head
Date Posted: March 02 2005 at 14:51
[/QUOTE Maybe i am wrong then, but i am sure that either Waters or a member of the band has stated this. Someone must know on this site |
Posted By: Reed Lover
Date Posted: March 02 2005 at 14:54
3F's? -------------
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Posted By: maani
Date Posted: March 02 2005 at 14:55
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I've got an alternative view to offer. Many people consider The Beatles (i.e., the "White Album) to be little more than an album in which each member wrote their own individual matierial, and then "used" the other three members as sort of "studio" musicians. Although I personally consider the Final Cut to be a Pink Floyd album, I would not disagree with those who might see it the same way some people see the White Album. (By the way, has anyone considered that The Wall is simply the White Album with lines?...) Peace. |
Posted By: Cluster One
Date Posted: March 02 2005 at 14:58
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Roger Waters presented two concepts (as musical demos) to the FLOYD in
1978/79. They were "The Wall" and "The Pros and Cons of Hitch Hiking". Gilmour said he actually preferred "Pros & Cons" musically, but felt that the concept for "The Wall" was more intriguing and could be developed well. And so "The Wall" was chosen by the group. (Rick Wright detested the concept, and felt it was quite arrogant to build a wall in between the band and the audience) "Pros & Cons" has nothing musically or lyrically in common with "The Wall" "The Final Cut" however, does have some similar elements to "The Wall" and has often been called (in error) the 3rd disc of "The Wall" ------------- Marmalade...I like marmalade. |
Posted By: Syzygy
Date Posted: March 02 2005 at 15:12
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It sucks. Pink Floyd should have called it a day after 'Animals'. ------------- 'Like so many of you I've got my doubts about how much to contribute to the already rich among us...' Robert Wyatt, Gloria Gloom |
Posted By: FloydWright
Date Posted: March 02 2005 at 23:44
Uh-oh, we can't have too much of THAT...
BTW, it's MS. FloydWright. 
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Posted By: James Lee
Date Posted: March 03 2005 at 01:36
There's no way I'm gonna let that one get buried. Funny and true. If you wanted to get stoner-deep about it: if the pure white cover of the White Album represented the innocence of the original psychedelic experimentors, the black lines of The Wall could be seen as bars which separate the once-innocent artist- both from the public, as well as from a 'pure' state of artistic expression. This concept is right in line with Waters' expressions of alienation and the isolation that fame and fortune can bring, as well as his change in outlook from the 60s to the 70s. But was it intended that way? Probably not... ------------- http://www.last.fm/user/sollipsist/?chartstyle=kaonashi">
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Posted By: Emperor
Date Posted: March 03 2005 at 02:01
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Even When The Final Cut is rather close to The Pros And Cons, this is the album by Pink Floyd anyway. At first, look at the album cover: there's written PINK FLOYD "THE FINAL CUT" In other case I think that The Final Cut is the same solo-album by Roger Waters as Animals and The Wall too! BTW, I really like The Final Cut. ------------- I Prophesy Disaster... |
OK, there could be written anything, but keep in mind the participations of Nick Mason and David Gilmour, which even sings in some moments!