Patto-Last chance to prove a "valid prog
Printed From: Progarchives.com
Category: Progressive Music Lounges
Forum Name: Suggest New Bands and Artists
Forum Description: Suggest, create polls, and classify new bands you would like included on Prog Archives
URL: http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=36115
Printed Date: November 26 2024 at 02:40
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Topic: Patto-Last chance to prove a "valid prog
Posted By: 10string
Subject: Patto-Last chance to prove a "valid prog
Date Posted: March 28 2007 at 11:04
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Patto...
Listen to all the records and look at me in the eye and tell me it's NOT prog...
Are The Doors, Led Zep and a slew of other bands on this site-that I am suspecting are included here because of the links to Amozon to buy them- REALLY prog?
Not really...
Members say (If these are Senior members then it's a dictatorship)
"Oh , it's a stoned mess" Oh, and early Floyd isn't???What about the DOORS?
"Well , they're JAZZ rock..."sez another- well so is JLPonty , Al Dimeola, etc and they're here...
LPs with "great tracks":
Patto (S/T)1971 "San Antone"
Hold your Fire 1972-listen to this and DARE tell me it's not PROG...Title track; heck , the whole LP!!!
Roll 'em Smoke 'em , put another line out 1973 , yes a bit messy , but kick *ss, if you can't handle "Mother", skip it! "loud green song"
Monkey's Bum 1973-unreleased, available at http://www.olliehalsall.co.uk - www.olliehalsall.co.uk thanks , Baz "Hedyob"
Best compilation "Sense of the absurd" with extra tracks...which will leave you with your mouth agape...
guys, don't let me and another Patto fan ,Mascodagamma (?) down and include them here...
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Replies:
Posted By: Philéas
Date Posted: March 28 2007 at 11:12
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Posted By: TheProgtologist
Date Posted: March 28 2007 at 11:13
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There is a section in this forum specifically for members to propose new bands for addition to the archives.
It's called..............
drumroll please..............
Suggest New Bands/Artists -------------  |
Posted By: chopper
Date Posted: March 28 2007 at 11:31
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Patto have definitely been proposed. If I remember correctly they were proposed for prog-related and so went off to the admin team.
I'll check tonight.
However
"Patto...
Listen to all the records and look at me in the eye and tell me it's NOT prog...
Are The Doors, Led Zep and a slew of other bands on this site-that I am suspecting are included here because of the links to Amozon to buy them- REALLY prog?
Not really...
Members say (If these are Senior members then it's a dictatorship)"
Before you go off on a rant, you should check your facts. Led Zep for instance are here as prog-related, which does NOT mean we're saying they're prog. As for the accusation about Amazon
 !! Such comments are not the best way to go about getting a band added! |
Posted By: 10string
Date Posted: March 28 2007 at 11:45
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Please don't take it personally and thanks for replying.
I had a couple of "Special collaborators" poo-poo my suggestion-I'm quoting them in my previous "rant"-in another topic - that's why I may be a little
...Yes, Zepp is related, sorry about the Amozon thing too, but I was getting a bit suspicious there...
and have also tried to get 'em here 'fore, but, no dice...
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chopper wrote:Posted By: 10string
Date Posted: March 28 2007 at 11:55
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I got confused-thanks for the Move...
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Posted By: salmacis
Date Posted: March 28 2007 at 12:01
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Yes, it perhaps would have been more productive to have avoided the 'X is here, so should Y be' argument. I'm undecided about Patto- I think you may have a case with the debut album, which if memory recalls mentions in the sleevenotes something about the contents within being 'jazz rock' (don't take my word for it though, could be wrong). It's not jazz rock in the Weather Report/Return To Forever sense, imo, in fact I'd have said this was more like Tempest- who Ollie Halsall played with later, of course- but I think this debut could perhaps be reason for the band to be considered.
I've only heard parts of 'Hold Your Fire' and I thought it was much more in line with heavy rock than prog. Having not heard all of it, I'm not sure I could judge on that but I did own their third album 'Roll Em Smoke Em Put Another Line Out' and that WAS a sloppy, stoned mess (and I am NOT calling their whole discography that, just that one album), imho. If you liked it, fine- I would say it had its moments but I found it to lack the spark of the earlier ones. That one's not even prog related, again imo.
So based on what I've heard, I'm undecided personally. If they were to be added, I wouldn't mind but equally if they weren't, I wouldn't mind much either.
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Posted By: salmacis
Date Posted: March 28 2007 at 12:16
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EDIT |
Posted By: TheProgtologist
Date Posted: March 28 2007 at 12:46
No problem,10string. ------------- |
Posted By: chopper
Date Posted: March 28 2007 at 17:36
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We did indeed receive a submission for Patto last month. They were suggested as being prog-related so it was passed on to the Admin team. Actually they were already on the list of artists to be discussed. |
Posted By: Sean Trane
Date Posted: March 29 2007 at 04:00
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For Patto , in the absence of progressive blues (one of the rare times I would use this subgenre along with Backdoor) , I propose JR/F ------------- let's just stay above the moral melee prefer the sink to the gutter keep our sand-castle virtues content to be a doer as well as a thinker, prefer lifting our pen rather than un-sheath our sword |
Posted By: 10string
Date Posted: March 29 2007 at 12:17
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Yes , the third one "Smoke 'em ...." is NOT the place to start listening to them, and it WAS a stoned mess as far as the last track"Cap'n P and the Attos" goes, which they admit to recording under acid -and "Mother" a very disturbing "song"- but it has moments of utter brilliance-"singing the blues on reds", "Flat footed woman", the proto punk "Loud green song", etc.
Please also listen to the extra tracks on "Sense of the Absurd" which contain a LOT of jazz/rock jamming.
As fas as the best place to start , it would be "Hold your fire", with "Air Raid Shelter" being a great example of Prog , as I know it, .time signature changes with virtuosistic/clarinet phrasing fluid guitar from Monsieur Halsall...
It was a musician's band , and let's not forget that Mr Halsall recorded a still unreleased Holy Grail with the Frippster, "The Blue Traffs" in 1972, which I think is still under RF's possesion.
I wouldn't say they're Prog related , but Prog... but hey , I'm wrong often...
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Posted By: Dick Heath
Date Posted: March 29 2007 at 13:11
What I hear from Patto release 1 and 2 , is music more akin to The Faces (before they became known as Rod Stewart & The Faces), good time, boozy rock - what we might call pub rock nowdays. It is evitably that because Patto had the inclination and the freedom to experiment, especially with Ollie Hassell on board, (and so many bands did 1970 -72), 35 years later some may say this was prog rock - however, doesn't we called it prog rock back then. ------------- The best eclectic music on the Web,8-11pm BST/GMT THURS. CLICK ON: http://www.lborosu.org.uk/media/lcr/live.php - http://www.lborosu.org.uk/media/lcr/live.php Host by PA's Dick Heath. |
Posted By: VanderGraafKommandöh
Date Posted: March 29 2007 at 13:18
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I have their first two albums and shall give them a listen sometime soon.
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Posted By: 10string
Date Posted: June 16 2007 at 11:02
| Soooo, any news on Patto?? |
Posted By: Sean Trane
Date Posted: June 18 2007 at 04:00
Can I propose you that you write the bio of the group and PM it to me?
I'll open up the Artiste entry page , credit you for the bio then all you'll have to do is add the albums by clicking on the Add Album button down the page.
Waddya say? ------------- let's just stay above the moral melee prefer the sink to the gutter keep our sand-castle virtues content to be a doer as well as a thinker, prefer lifting our pen rather than un-sheath our sword |
Posted By: TheProgtologist
Date Posted: June 18 2007 at 17:16
I missed this at first.Those bands were NOT included here because of the Amazon links,they were included after literally YEARS of debate. ------------- |
Posted By: MikeEnRegalia
Date Posted: June 19 2007 at 02:11
One of the things you need to understand about this website and the prog-related category is that it's absolutely low priority. Why is it so very important to you that this band gets added? ------------- https://awesomeprog.com/users/Mike" rel="nofollow">Recently listened to: 
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Posted By: Sean Trane
Date Posted: June 19 2007 at 05:04
Mike I think Patto is definitely prog enough to be included much higher than the prog-related category.
They have Blues-jazz rock music but whether to put them inside Art Rock or JR/F is my dilemna. ------------- let's just stay above the moral melee prefer the sink to the gutter keep our sand-castle virtues content to be a doer as well as a thinker, prefer lifting our pen rather than un-sheath our sword |
Posted By: Dick Heath
Date Posted: June 19 2007 at 12:26
But importantly Patto weren't thought of as prog when they were around - this site gets too revisionist for its own good. What is the point of incorporating every rock band that experimented and then settled down to their own particular, characteristic form of rock - btw of the later Patto albums are pretty aweful. As said before, the second Patto album, Hold Your Fire, has echoes of the Faces' music for me. ------------- The best eclectic music on the Web,8-11pm BST/GMT THURS. CLICK ON: http://www.lborosu.org.uk/media/lcr/live.php - http://www.lborosu.org.uk/media/lcr/live.php Host by PA's Dick Heath. |
Posted By: mystic fred
Date Posted: June 26 2007 at 12:17
^great band Patto - the Faces/Rod Stewart comparison is a good one, though they play jazz too.
-------------  Prog Archives Tour Van 
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Posted By: Dick Heath
Date Posted: June 26 2007 at 13:20
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If you want comparisons in addition to Rod Stewart &The Faces , listen to the hard rock evolving (I daren't use "progressing" because of the local misinterpretation):
Stud - similar or greater number of experiments with rock/other music hybrids on the first Patto album.
Skid Row, especially second album 34 Hours - rock with lots of unusually time signatures.
Pioneering rock but not prog . ------------- The best eclectic music on the Web,8-11pm BST/GMT THURS. CLICK ON: http://www.lborosu.org.uk/media/lcr/live.php - http://www.lborosu.org.uk/media/lcr/live.php Host by PA's Dick Heath. |
Posted By: Sean Trane
Date Posted: June 27 2007 at 03:34
It seems that Patto was a schizophrenic band with two different faces:
The first is indeed the Rod Stewart type of Faces rock (for years, I thought this was the way they were, I only heard an awful purple and green artwork album, which was not prog)
the second is the jazz-rock of their debut album (I only heard this one two years ago) and most likely this album:
http://rateyourmusic.com/release/comp/patto/ducks_in_flight___the_lost_jazz_album_/ - http://rateyourmusic.com/release/comp/patto/ducks_in_flight___the_lost_jazz_album_/
Haven't heard the rest of the album, though! ------------- let's just stay above the moral melee prefer the sink to the gutter keep our sand-castle virtues content to be a doer as well as a thinker, prefer lifting our pen rather than un-sheath our sword |
Posted By: Dick Heath
Date Posted: June 27 2007 at 11:52
Perhaps by knowing Patto evolved out of Timebox, who called themselves 'jazz rock', before virtually any other UK band, might give limited support. However, the Decca CD Timebox compilation does little to prove they were jazz rock in their recordings. In fact they were aiming at the UK pop charts, beit with Ollie Halsall playing vibes as opposed to a an electric guitar in the instrumental solo middle 8 on their two very minor hits.
 As I've written elsewhere, playing a jazzy middle 8 in a pop hit, wasn't unusual, e.g the Zombies did it! But I can report (again) that on my one occasion of seeing Timebox, their live set had more space for jazzy solos and less for the pop-stuff. There was also the strange sight of Halsall apparently destroying his vibes (ala Keith Moon) at the end of the set, only to see him then recover all the strikers in one movement, since they were all attached to a long piece of heavy duty cloth tape. Ironically Timebox announced their cessation as a band, "'as there was no interest in jazz rock in the UK', only a few weeks before the successful jazz rock group Colosseum announced its formation! ------------- The best eclectic music on the Web,8-11pm BST/GMT THURS. CLICK ON: http://www.lborosu.org.uk/media/lcr/live.php - http://www.lborosu.org.uk/media/lcr/live.php Host by PA's Dick Heath. |
Posted By: Dick Heath
Date Posted: June 28 2007 at 05:57
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Just been advised to check out the dedicated Ollie Halsall website, and now suggest others do the same wrt assessing Patto and categorisation:
http://www.olliehalsall.co.uk/moose.htm - http://www.olliehalsall.co.uk/moose.htm
where you can down load for nothing, tracks from the Patto "lost jazz rock album". But read the attached message about the reality of this being a "lost album". Certainly these recordings are jazz rock for the most part. They also demonstrate the schizoid nature of the band's music (and a carry over from Timebox), i.e. keeping themselves within comparatively restrained boundaries on studio albums without completely shifting into mainstream jazz rock, whilst letting loose (musically as well as other things!), when touring.
In other words I'm inclined to shift my position on inclusion of the band, and although the majority of their familiar recordings put them firmly in the pub-rock ala R. Stewart & The Faces territory. I most strongly recommend that if they do end up in the jazz rock fusion section, the biography author must emphasise this schizoidal element in their music and point to their live music often being a considerable extrapolation from the studio recordings, especially with the jazz elements coming to the fore - and show the weblink above, as well as one to Patto. ------------- The best eclectic music on the Web,8-11pm BST/GMT THURS. CLICK ON: http://www.lborosu.org.uk/media/lcr/live.php - http://www.lborosu.org.uk/media/lcr/live.php Host by PA's Dick Heath. |