"Some of you are going to die..."
Printed From: Progarchives.com
Category: Progressive Music Lounges
Forum Name: Prog Polls
Forum Description: Create polls on topics related to progressive music
URL: http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=34446
Printed Date: November 26 2024 at 09:40
Software Version: Web Wiz Forums 11.01 - http://www.webwizforums.com
Topic: "Some of you are going to die..."
Posted By: The Whistler
Subject: "Some of you are going to die..."
Date Posted: February 16 2007 at 03:30
|
Because I mentioned it in the 'Room.
Anyway, it seems like, for me at least, it should be the live version. I like the song well enough, and the live version seems more together. Plus Phil and Steve beat the pants off those others guys whose names I never bothered to learn. I especially like some part where the drums go "boom-bada-boom." Yeah. REAL descriptive there Whistler.
Anyway, but I kinda miss the sound effects and Gabriel voice effects that only a studio could provide. The question is...how much do I miss them...?!? ------------- "There seem to be quite a large percentage of young American boys out there tonight. A long way from home, eh? Well so are we... Gotta stick together." -I. Anderson |
Replies:
Posted By: Atavachron
Date Posted: February 16 2007 at 03:33
| Never too fond of 'Live', they didn't bring much new to the material and the studio mixes are far better. |
Posted By: The Whistler
Date Posted: February 16 2007 at 03:39
Have to agree with you there. I love Genesis and all, but I prefer the whole Tull/King Crimson live approach. That's why I like the Knife; it's the song that's most drastically changed. In fact, it's just about the ONLY song that's changed (aside from the goofy pronounciation on "humanoid height!!!" in Get 'em Out by Friday) ------------- "There seem to be quite a large percentage of young American boys out there tonight. A long way from home, eh? Well so are we... Gotta stick together." -I. Anderson |
Atavachron wrote:Posted By: BaldFriede
Date Posted: February 16 2007 at 03:45
|
I usually don't care much for live versions of Genesis; they sound too much like the studio versions. Hearing Tony Banks noodle the keyboard solo from "Supper's Ready" note for note is really painful for me. "The Knife" though is one glorious exception; it really kicks ass, and I agree with Whistler that Phil and Steve play the pants off Anthony Phillips and John Mayhew. In fact the guitar solo towards the end is one of my favourite of all times in the live version.
-------------  BaldJean and I; I am the one in blue. |
Posted By: BaldFriede
Date Posted: February 16 2007 at 03:50
There is one other change live that I like: The way Steve Hackett documents the anger of the plants in "The Return of the Giant Hogweed" after the line "Botanical creature stirs, seeking revenge". But else...  ------------- BaldJean and I; I am the one in blue. |
Posted By: The Whistler
Date Posted: February 16 2007 at 03:50
|
Oh yeah dude! I totally forgot about that killer guitar soloing at the end! It's nutty; it's like the most metal thing Genesis ever did, beating out the Doo-DOO-Doo-doo-etc line on Dancing with the Moonlight Knight. I guess I like the live version better (that didn't take long). (But I do like the fact that I've taken a lush, talented, bombastic band like Genesis, and stripped them down to boom-bada and doo-doo. Which goes to show that ANYTHING can be air guitared, with a little practice) ------------- "There seem to be quite a large percentage of young American boys out there tonight. A long way from home, eh? Well so are we... Gotta stick together." -I. Anderson |
Posted By: Atavachron
Date Posted: February 16 2007 at 03:52
|
Off topic but I have to say, as sloppy and unhinged as they could be, after all these years I still think Zep brought the most energy, development and explosiveness to their concerts.
|
Posted By: The Whistler
Date Posted: February 16 2007 at 03:54
|
OH YEAH! That reminds me, I wanted to get Song Remains the Same at some point... ------------- "There seem to be quite a large percentage of young American boys out there tonight. A long way from home, eh? Well so are we... Gotta stick together." -I. Anderson |
Posted By: Atavachron
Date Posted: February 16 2007 at 03:57
|
Dude, that record smokes. It's got much cooler versions of the Houses of the Holy material plus older stuff. One the single finest live rock documents I know.
.. dude |
Posted By: BaldFriede
Date Posted: February 16 2007 at 03:58
|
I generally prefer live albums to studio albums, especially with certain bands. Genesis is not one of them.
------------- BaldJean and I; I am the one in blue. |
Posted By: The Whistler
Date Posted: February 16 2007 at 04:00
|
Uh, aside from Bursting Out, of course...
Dude! I love No Quarter! I think I should create a medley of The Knife and No Quarter that I sing as I walk down the street! People would really appreciate that!
Dude. ------------- "There seem to be quite a large percentage of young American boys out there tonight. A long way from home, eh? Well so are we... Gotta stick together." -I. Anderson |
Posted By: The Whistler
Date Posted: February 16 2007 at 04:01
|
DUDE!!! ...Shoulda quoted dude. ------------- "There seem to be quite a large percentage of young American boys out there tonight. A long way from home, eh? Well so are we... Gotta stick together." -I. Anderson |
Posted By: Atavachron
Date Posted: February 16 2007 at 04:07
of course |
Posted By: richardh
Date Posted: February 16 2007 at 05:02
The original studio performance is majestic .
I find the live version slightly inferior because Gabriel overdoes the vibrato and it doesn't suit Collins jazzier style IMO.
|
Posted By: prog4evr
Date Posted: February 16 2007 at 05:03
| Voted for Live. Collins is better than - who is that drummer again? And, Hackett surpasses Anthony Phillips hands down.... |
Posted By: erik neuteboom
Date Posted: February 16 2007 at 05:26
|
Genesis Live is the album that took me into progrock and I am very grateful to Steve Hackett because of his fiery and powerful contribution: especially that mindblowing, great build-up solo is superior to Anthony Phillips his effort. In my opinion Hackett (who said to be Fripp inspired) was very important to turn Genesis into a progrock band with an own identity and a more 'rocky feel'.
During the The Musical Box (Genesis tribute band) concert I witnessed last month, The Knife was one of the highlights, so powerful, unique and every member has its creative contribution (like Peter Gabriel his emotion) to this song. A big hand for The Knife Live
 |
Posted By: Snow Dog
Date Posted: February 16 2007 at 05:28
|
For me the live version rules and always will. ------------- http://www.last.fm/user/Snow_Dog" rel="nofollow"> 
|
Posted By: salmacis
Date Posted: February 16 2007 at 05:30
|
I agree with Erik; it's widely perceived that Hackett had the biggest contribution to the band's more symphonic sound, he urged them to buy a mellotron, for example. That symphonic grandeur left with him, despite ATTWT and Duke still being excellent albums. However, I still prefer the Trespass version. I think Anthony Phillips' guitar solo is brilliant and makes me forgive the weak drumming of John Mayhew.
|
Posted By: erik neuteboom
Date Posted: February 16 2007 at 05:54
Did Hackett urge the others to buy Genesis a Mellotron, Salmacis? Now I will love Hackett even more than I did   !! And I forgive you about your Trespass opinion  ...!
|
Posted By: iguana
Date Posted: February 16 2007 at 05:57
|
they also played it on the DUKE-tour, and that wasn't too bad, actually. ------------- progressive rock and rural tranquility don't match. true or false? |
Posted By: salmacis
Date Posted: February 16 2007 at 06:15
Well, they had used one before of course on 'Stagnation' and 'Visions Of Angels', but I imagine that belonged to the studio or was borrowed. I believe it was Hackett that instigated the band's increased usage of one, and they actually bought the Mark II model from King Crimson!
|
Posted By: erik neuteboom
Date Posted: February 16 2007 at 06:29
|
Salmacis, we can ask Pierreolivier about that, he is the #1 Mellotron connaisseur on Prog Archives
 |
Posted By: Sean Trane
Date Posted: February 16 2007 at 06:55
and it didn't work too well either!! It used to overheat and some of those tapes were a bit sticky ------------- let's just stay above the moral melee prefer the sink to the gutter keep our sand-castle virtues content to be a doer as well as a thinker, prefer lifting our pen rather than un-sheath our sword |
Posted By: erik neuteboom
Date Posted: February 16 2007 at 07:10
In the early Seventies Genesis even used the engine of a dust cleaner when their Mellotron went broke on stage just before the show  !
|
Posted By: trauma0
Date Posted: February 16 2007 at 08:20
|
the original version of trespass ------------- http://www.last.fm/user/trauma0/?chartstyle=itunesrecent"> 
|
Posted By: BaldJean
Date Posted: February 16 2007 at 09:10
|
I am really surprised the rather half-baked and energy-lacking studio version seems to be winning at the moment (though the margin by which the studio version leads is by no means decisive yet). Hackett's solo is harmonically far more interesting than that of Philips and much more fitting for the song. the few acoustical gimmicks of the studio version are interesting, but not enough to make me vote for it. the live version of "The Knife" is the closest Genesis ever came to metal, by the way. I would have expected the live version to be a clear winner. my vote definitely goes to it. too bad there are not more votes with explanations though -------------  A shot of me as High Priestess of Gaia during our fall festival. Ceterum censeo principiis obsta |
Posted By: Snow Dog
Date Posted: February 16 2007 at 09:18
I am also suprised by the vote. I thought everyone would think the live version far superior. For me its no contest......LIve hands down. Its more exciting, more edgy, better guitar...better evrything really. It bowls along rather than the studio version "walk in the park". ------------- http://www.last.fm/user/Snow_Dog" rel="nofollow">
|
Posted By: Firepuck
Date Posted: February 16 2007 at 09:33
|
I agree with erik, Hackett was (IMO) the man. I had always thought that he was the one that promoted extensive use of the Mellotron. If you listen to his solo work sounds more like the classic Genesis than any others. And look what happened to Genesis after he left.
Good show hey erik! Did you see the SEBTP version, it is my favourite show the Musical Box does. ------------- Kryten : "'Pub'? Ah yes, A meeting place where humans attempt to achieve advanced states of mental incompetence by the repeated consumption of fermented vegetable drinks." |
Posted By: BaldJean
Date Posted: February 16 2007 at 09:35
just x-ed that day in my calendar. SnowDog and I are of the same opinion!!!!  ------------- A shot of me as High Priestess of Gaia during our fall festival. Ceterum censeo principiis obsta |
Posted By: BaldJean
Date Posted: February 16 2007 at 09:36
just x-ed that day in my calendar. SnowDog and I are of the same opinion!!!! ------------- A shot of me as High Priestess of Gaia during our fall festival. Ceterum censeo principiis obsta |
Posted By: Bj-1
Date Posted: February 16 2007 at 09:37
|
Can't really decide on this one. Tie. ------------- RIO/AVANT/ZEUHL - The best thing you can get with yer pants on! |
Posted By: Jared
Date Posted: February 16 2007 at 09:39
|
I went for the 'walk in the park' version.... ------------- Music has always been a matter of energy to me. On some nights I believe that a car with the needle on empty can run 50 more miles if you have the right music very loud on the radio. Hunter S Thompson |
Posted By: erik neuteboom
Date Posted: February 16 2007 at 09:44
|
Well, Firepuck, I have seen The Musical Box: the SEBTP tour is also my favorite, it blends the best of the magical Nursery Cryme and Foxtrot era with the best of the SEBTP album and ... Hackett shines with his unique style: volume-pedal, bending the strings, hammering down, lots of emotion because of his blues-background and a harder-edged side that is so compelling during the solo on The Knife live. To me the difference sounds as nice prog-folk on the studio version and dynamic symphonic prog on the live version
|
Posted By: sleeper
Date Posted: February 16 2007 at 15:20
|
Close call, but I'll go with the live version, its just so full of energy and really well performed.
------------- Spending more than I should on Prog since 2005 
|
Posted By: Freak
Date Posted: February 16 2007 at 21:55
|
I hate to resort to this, but the version on Live... It just kicks ass. It is raw, powerful, and Steve really lights the place on fire. It's the most energy in a Genesis song that I've heard (except maybe the performance of "The Musical Box" right before it!). Live was my introduction to the band, so maybe I'm biased...
And as for Led Zepp being the best live band ever? I don't think so. It's a tie between The Who & the Grateful Dead. ------------- 
|
Posted By: Scapler
Date Posted: February 16 2007 at 22:23
|
Going with the good 'ol original
------------- Bassists are deadly 
|
Posted By: The Whistler
Date Posted: February 17 2007 at 02:32
|
But I don't hear Close to the Edge... ------------- "There seem to be quite a large percentage of young American boys out there tonight. A long way from home, eh? Well so are we... Gotta stick together." -I. Anderson |
Posted By: MadcapLaughs84
Date Posted: February 17 2007 at 02:40
|
None of them ------------- 
|
Posted By: micky
Date Posted: February 17 2007 at 07:28
|
somewhat surprised... not that I waste much time talking about
Genesis.. but it seemed many I talked to loved the live version
better.. oh well for me the studio version ------------- The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip |
Posted By: Garion81
Date Posted: February 18 2007 at 01:38
|
Live version for me too although the studio version has such a subtle sound to it that I like that too. Depends on my mood. Tresspass was Genesis first foray into prog and these guys were like 19 when they did it. Some of the material while of course not as strong as later compositions were striking in the melodies and harmonies they used. John Mayhew was too understated as a drummer of course for the drama the music effected but stil a lot to be admired on that album.
As for seeing them live the performance Genesis gave you can never be done justice on a album. They were something to see and hear and your emotions would rush along with the songs as they ebbed and flowed. I could care less if Tony improvised his solos or not if you ever saw One For the Vine performed live you really were just stunned afterwards. I am really tempted to buy a ticket for the latest tours just to see if there is still some of that magic left.
------------- 
"What are you going to do when that damn thing rusts?" |
Posted By: Zargus
Date Posted: February 18 2007 at 12:35
|
The studio is my favorite, i get bored by the live version dno why. ------------- 
|
Posted By: BaldJean
Date Posted: February 18 2007 at 12:51
the same happens to me with the studio version lol ------------- A shot of me as High Priestess of Gaia during our fall festival. Ceterum censeo principiis obsta |
Posted By: Chus
Date Posted: February 18 2007 at 13:04
I think not, they used a lot of mellotron in Trespass... careful if not more than in NC.... and I quite like Anthony Phillips solo a bit more.. Hackett used too much pull-offs and hammer-ons on his that I found unappealing for Genesis ------------- Jesus Gabriel |
Posted By: CryoftheCarrots
Date Posted: February 21 2007 at 21:29
|
The Live version was the first version I heard of The Knife. The Trespass version just doesn't have the power (edge)that a song about a revolution should have due mainly to Ant and JM's weaker contributions. ------------- "There is a lot in this world to be tense and intense about" MJK |
Posted By: richardh
Date Posted: February 22 2007 at 02:55
Half baked?
 The studio version has a much chunkier feel to it...especially the organ sound. Its tremendously atmospheric as well. If anything the live version is overcooked
Interestingly as a peice of music it was inspired by The Nice 'Rondo'. Similar comparisons can be made between The Nice doing Rondo (more solid) and ELP's later versions (busier/more energetic) .Again I think I prefer the original studio version in that case as well.
 |
Posted By: sheeves
Date Posted: February 22 2007 at 17:48
|
I think the only bad thing Hackett did with Genesis was ruin ANt Philips Guitar solo on the knife and not play it the way ant did when he played live
my favorite guitar solo besides firth of fifth |
Posted By: Mlaen
Date Posted: February 23 2007 at 13:52
| I don't like live albums very much, so "original" for me. |
Posted By: BaldFriede
Date Posted: February 23 2007 at 16:07
|
"The Knife" is about the only live track of Genesis worth listening to; it exceeeds the original by far. I really don`t understand what people find in the Phillips solo; the solo of Hackett is a lot more original and much more fitting for the song. I am not the biggest fan of "Trespass" anyway; the drumming is uninspired, in my opinion, and Phillips lead guitar does not convince me either. For me the first real Genesis album is "Nursery Cryme". The only song on "Trespass" I have a weak spot for is "White Mountain". "The Knife" in the studio version shows potential, but this potential was only developed in the live version. I can understand though why people prefer the studio version to the live version; the live version is probably a bit too much on the metal side for a lot of Genesis fans. ------------- BaldJean and I; I am the one in blue. |
Posted By: salmacis
Date Posted: February 23 2007 at 16:18
Well then, where? The only songs that spring to mind with mellotron on for Trespass are on Stagnation and Visions Of Angels, which if you had read later on in the thread I had actually said in the first place.
On Nursery Cryme it's on Return Of The Giant Hogweed, Seven Stones and The Fountain Of Salmacis...3 songs to 2 songs....that's certainly less, considering Stagnation uses it fleetingly (most prominently in the climax) and Visions Of Angels only in the instrumental section. It's nowhere to be heard on Looking For Someone, White Mountain, Dusk or The Knife that I know of. In what way does that equate to mellotron being used 'more' on Trespass??
And for further clarification, read this Wikipedia article on Nursery Cryme- ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nursery_Cryme - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nursery_Cryme ) it clearly says they BOUGHT THEIR OWN mellotron- again, I had already said in this thread that the one on Trespass may well have been on loan from the studio.
 And to add further insult to injury, I said I like Phillips solo more on The Knife too!
I'm not sure if it's as simple as the live version being 'more metal'- I'm a big 70s/early 80s metal fan and I still prefer the studio version, despite its flaws. Always have done, but to each their own.
 |
Posted By: erik neuteboom
Date Posted: February 23 2007 at 16:40
|
Steve Hackett was very inspired by Robert Fripp his agressive guitarwork and he put a lot of that in the The Knife live solo, in my opinion this element upgraded the live version to a superior level in comparison with the studio version. Listening to Anthony Phillips I have always had the idea that he was a good acoustic guitarist who also played some electric guitar while Hackett was a classically trained guitarist who had an amazing development as a electric guitar player, so creative and adventurous
|
Posted By: Floydian42
Date Posted: February 23 2007 at 16:51
| I love the live version, more energy, more natural, IMHO |