how does tool relate to kc?
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Topic: how does tool relate to kc?
Posted By: Asphalt
Subject: how does tool relate to kc?
Date Posted: January 17 2007 at 05:39
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ok, first off: this is not about bashing Tool; second: I enjoy some of their material (most parts of Aenima and Lateralus), though I tend to consider them rather a clever metal band than a prog metal one KC on the other hand, I love every bit of it and it ranks as one of my all time bands; I also consider it to be one of the most influential and innovative group outhere so maybe I'm missing something really obvious, or I haven't been listening to Tool the right way, but everybody seems to be seeing a lot of KC in Tool my question then is: what is it? technically, musically speaking, what is the connection between Tool and KC? what sounds like KC in Tool? cause as far as I'm concerned at this point, not much...  |
Replies:
Posted By: Lizard_King
Date Posted: January 17 2007 at 06:30
| Once I've heard a bootleg of Tool and KC concert where they played together on stage at once... maybe that's the roots of similarity between them:))) |
Posted By: Lex C
Date Posted: January 17 2007 at 06:50
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Math Rock is the similarity.
------------- You think we've developed fast that we're civilized and intelligent I'll let you in on a secret...We've developed things the rest is just knowledge passed on. |
Posted By: iguana
Date Posted: January 17 2007 at 07:23
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d.bottril produced both TOOL and KC's "thrak".
TOOL have always championed KC's influence on them. ------------- progressive rock and rural tranquility don't match. true or false? |
Posted By: Asphalt
Date Posted: January 17 2007 at 07:39
well, thank you for your posts but can anybody be a little more specific than "well, i think it's obivous, they're both prog" or "they're both complicated" ? 
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Posted By: eugene
Date Posted: January 17 2007 at 07:52
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IMO Tool relates to KC in a similar way as "prog-related" relates to "prog" - i.e. no relation at all
On a serious note - I do not like Tool at all, and KC is one of my favourite bands - so basically can't answer your question.
------------- carefulwiththataxe |
Posted By: Prog-jester
Date Posted: January 17 2007 at 08:12
I love both. TOOL is actually my fave Metal band, though I AIN'T neither Prog-Metal nor Alternative Metal(where early TOOL use to belong) fan at all. I love KC too, and I don't care for the presence/absence of similarity.Both are incredibly awesome. "10 000 Days" is my favourite from this year. 
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Posted By: MikeEnRegalia
Date Posted: January 17 2007 at 08:20
I'm glad that Tool are not just a modern, heavier version of KC ... nobody needs that, since KC themselves did that on The Power to Believe. I think the similarity goes beyond the mere fact that both bands play complex music - they're also both very abstract, and put the music (especially the artistic aspect) above themselves as musicians, particularly in live situations. ------------- https://awesomeprog.com/release-polls/pa/aoty-2024/vote" rel="nofollow - 2024 Release Poll Listened to: 
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Posted By: Zitro
Date Posted: January 17 2007 at 09:53
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I think it's the dark repetitive nature of Tool in songs like Intension, Disposition or Reflection. I can see that they listened to a bit of "Discipline". I think they are very different bands anyways. Both are very innovative and influential. |
Posted By: TheProgtologist
Date Posted: January 17 2007 at 10:13
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I answered that question in this thread:
http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=27626&KW=tool - http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=27626&KW=tool -------------  |
Posted By: SirPsycho388
Date Posted: January 17 2007 at 13:38
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TOOL and KC tend to write a lot of dark and gloomy material. Stuff that isn't necessarily angry, but dark and heavy, and of course complex. ------------- Strangers passing in the street by chance two separate glances meet and I am you and what I see is me. And do I take you by the hand and lead you through the land and help me understand the best I can |
Posted By: endlessepic
Date Posted: January 17 2007 at 15:31
| I geuss only having heard ITCOTKC by Crimson, and Lateralus by Tool, I'm obviously missing the albums where they are similar... |
Posted By: Harry Hood
Date Posted: January 17 2007 at 23:35
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During interviews on the KC & Tool tour, Tool pretty much admitted to plagerising KC's musical style.
The only difference is that Adam Jones doesn't even come close to matching Fripp's ability, but he obviously wishes he could. ------------- 
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Posted By: Masque
Date Posted: January 17 2007 at 23:51
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If I was in a band that was getting plenty of attention King Crimson would be an excellent band to claim to plagiarise from a business point of view. ------------- |
Posted By: SolariS
Date Posted: January 18 2007 at 01:05
sad that tool headlined that tour...everybody was like who is king crimson??? -------------  
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Harry Hood wrote:Posted By: Ed_The_Dead
Date Posted: January 18 2007 at 15:08
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And here we go again.
So who wants to bash Tool this time?  ------------- http://www.last.fm/user/ed_the_dead/?chartstyle=asimpleblue5"> 
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Posted By: BePinkTheater
Date Posted: January 18 2007 at 16:03
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I started this same thread a couple weeks (or months..?) ago.
I completly agree, I don't see much of a connection. but other people do...
whatever. Both are great. ------------- I can strangle a canary in a tin can and it would be really original, but that wouldn't save it from sounding like utter sh*t. -Stone Beard |
Posted By: Syzygy
Date Posted: January 18 2007 at 19:15
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Without wishing to duplicate Jody's contribution to the debate, it's worth remembering that when King Crimson recorded The Construkction Of Light Fripp said that they were aiming for a sound like Tool's - this after the two bands had toured together.
I suspect that in many cases Tool are prog metal for people who don't like prog metal. It's certainly true in my case; Lateralus is one of the few prog metal albums that I listen to regularly, and while I don't think it's an absolute masterpiece I'd rate it as one of the strongest rock albums in any genre so far this millennium. ------------- 'Like so many of you I've got my doubts about how much to contribute to the already rich among us...' Robert Wyatt, Gloria Gloom |
Posted By: zappaholic
Date Posted: January 18 2007 at 20:36
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For me it's the precision and the interplay of the instruments.
------------- "Democracy is the theory that the common people know what they want, and deserve to get it good and hard." -- H.L. Mencken |
Posted By: el böthy
Date Posted: January 18 2007 at 20:40
They relate cause I think both are awesome, therefor the link...me!
------------- "You want me to play what, Robert?" 
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Posted By: TheProgtologist
Date Posted: January 18 2007 at 22:05
Could you do me a favor and show some proof to back that up? I have never heard anything like that.They claim that KC was a big influence on them but I have never heard one member of Tool admitting they plagerised KC. So back that statement up please. ------------- |
Posted By: moebius
Date Posted: January 18 2007 at 23:59
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(I_don´t_have_spacebar)
The_answer_is_in_10000_DAYS. The_beggining_of_VICARIOUS_is_reminiscent_of_the_typical_contrapunctal_guitars_of_King_Crimson. The_most_obvious_influence_(and_a_tribute_I_think)_is_the_song_ROSETTA_STONED._ Listen_carefully_the_end_of_that_song. There_you_have_THRAK_almost_ripped_off!! That´s_the_best_proof_I_could_think_of. I_agree_with_the_repetitive_thing_and_with_Adam´s_guitar_work. |
Posted By: Harry Hood
Date Posted: January 19 2007 at 22:08
"First of all we're terrified to go on after you, and second of all we're gonna have all these kids in the audience going, 'Hey, TOOL ripped these guys off blind!'" - Maynard James Keenan -------------
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Posted By: TheProgtologist
Date Posted: January 19 2007 at 22:11
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That still is not a member of the band stating.."We plagiarised King Crimson's music",which is what your previous post directly implied,Harry.
And how about some links please? ------------- |
Posted By: Harry Hood
Date Posted: January 19 2007 at 22:48
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The site with the interview on it has died, I could give you a link to the wiki page, but wikipedia "doesn't count".
The proof is in the music. Just listen to "Sober" right after "Easy Money" (preferably the version from The Night Watch). Then listen to "The Patient" (or pretty much any track from Lateralus) after listening to "Discipline" and "The Sheltering Sky".
It's nothing to be ashamed of though. Lots of bands have stolen from KC. The Flower Kings and Dave Matthews Band have both stolen from passages of "Larks Tounges In Aspic Part II". And practically every Primus riff was stolen from an 80's KC song.
Of all the bands to steal from, King Crimson is probably the best. Fripp doesn't care, he knows none of them will ever be as good as him. -------------
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Posted By: Man Overboard
Date Posted: January 19 2007 at 23:06
I'd have to say that stating "Hey, we ripped these guys off blind" is in line with "pretty much admitting that they plagiarized KC", if we're getting into semantics. ------------- https://soundcloud.com/erin-susan-jennings" rel="nofollow - Bedroom guitarist". Composer, Arranger, Producer. Perfection may not exist, but I may still choose to serve Perfection. Commissions considered. |
Posted By: TheProgtologist
Date Posted: January 19 2007 at 23:17
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But the claim is totally unsubstantiated Aaron.
I never said KC wasn't a big influence on Tool,because they were,and Tool admit it.Tool also inspired KC,which Fripp admits to in the short article I linked. But Harry is claiming Tool admitted to ripping them off,and I don't buy it. ------------- |
Posted By: Harry Hood
Date Posted: January 19 2007 at 23:27
"Do you hear the influence? There's just one figure where I hear an influence, just one. It was a piece we were developing that we dropped. And it's almost exactly the same figure: three note arpeggio with a particular accent from the guitar. So I don't think you could have heard it. That's the only thing"
Fripp is basically saying "we wrote a song that sounded kinda like yours, but it sucked, so we gave up on it"
He knows they're not talented enough to rip off KC completely. -------------
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Posted By: FragileDT
Date Posted: January 20 2007 at 00:08
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If you listen to Larks Tongues in Aspic you will realize why King Crimson was so important in the formation of metal. ------------- One likes to believe In the freedom of music But glittering prizes And endless Compromises Shatter the illusion Of integrity |
Posted By: TheProgtologist
Date Posted: January 20 2007 at 01:53
You can argue your point without all the little digs and barbs about how inferior you think Tool are to KC.Don't cross the line and start trying to "bait' me,which is against forum rules. ------------- |
Posted By: MikeEnRegalia
Date Posted: January 20 2007 at 05:23
Or maybe they are talented, but just smart enough to not rip off KC. I think that if they did rip off KC just for the sake of proving that they can, it still would not impress you much. ------------- https://awesomeprog.com/release-polls/pa/aoty-2024/vote" rel="nofollow - 2024 Release Poll Listened to:
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Posted By: BenMech
Date Posted: January 21 2007 at 13:16
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I can specifcally note the 46 and 2 "riff" (shamelessly itself copied by Dream Theater in the song Home) paying near note for note tribute to "Frame By Frame".
You should note, that even if Tool "stole" anything from Krimso, they at least had the decency to not only admit, but to bring the newest era Krimson on tour to introduce to their audience. Tool had a habit ever since Undertow, if not Opiate of touring with unconventional bands the audiences may not like, but who the band Tool themselves listen to and "rip off" Then again, the 80's era Krimson stole quite a bit from The Talking Heads, specifically the gamalon interweaving percussions, as heard on Fear of Music |
Posted By: Asphalt
Date Posted: January 22 2007 at 09:33
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well now, those were some pretty good examples, i must say as for the ripp-off discussion, how about some chillout? [and i don't mean the music  ]as far as i'm concerned Maynard's phrase was pretty much ironic in using the phrase "rip-off", even more since except for some musical influences, Tool still sounds as different as possible from KC [that's neither a compliment, nor an insult, just a fact] |
Posted By: Anguiad
Date Posted: February 20 2007 at 15:08
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I once read in the REVOLVER magazine, shortly after the 10000 days release in an interview with Tool that Maynard said "we have been ripping off King Crimson and nobody seems to notice it!" Obviously he did not mean the whole business in "ripping-off", but only admitted once again they are clearly influenced by this band. It is nothing bad at all to admit you are learning from your idols. ------------- "Tis your birth and faith that wrong you...not I." |
Posted By: Matt Dickens
Date Posted: February 21 2007 at 19:20
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I think King Crimson's influence on Tool is more along the lines of inspiring them to do something that is different from everyone else just as KC has done. If we elaborate long enough on the nuances of any music we could say that N'Sync ripped off KC because they used such and such rythm on such and such song and king crimson already used that rythm. I have never heard anything in Tool's music that could be considered "ripped off" of KC, I just think that since they are all fans of the band then obviously some of it is gonna rub off on them and show up in their own music subconsciously.
By the way, I really dont see why people have to bash Tool every time their is a KC/Tool thread, both bands are great and all of the negative things you people keep saying have already been said a billion times. Both bands are great and both bands are influences by each other, and every band in the world is influenced by someone so i dont see why it's so terrible for Tool to be influenced by what is perhaps the greatest band on the planet. ------------- If it ain't broke don't break it. |
Posted By: MadcapLaughs84
Date Posted: February 21 2007 at 21:39
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KC-Art Rock Tool-Art Metal That's the similarity ------------- 
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Posted By: Arrrghus
Date Posted: February 21 2007 at 21:44
Yes! I think the biggest similarity comes from both bands' willingness to try new things and stretch the boundaries of music. Sure, Tool will sound strange in a Crimsonesque sort of way, but it never sounds close to the KC's style. They're both great bands (KC, in my opinion, is by far the better of the two). ------------- 
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Posted By: Age_Of_Answers
Date Posted: February 21 2007 at 22:10
| I suppose people draw a connection because Tool's arrangements are very similar/heavily influenced by King Crimson. Especially the 70s lineup; "Red" and "Aenima" are two albums that really compliment each other. |
Posted By: Zargus
Date Posted: February 22 2007 at 10:14
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Becaus they both make dark and experimental music that sounds like nothing before it, thats what i have always tought is whats relate em. And tool have always said they are big fans of KC and got much inspiration from em. I like both very much.
I have also read that George Clinton of Funkadelic/Parliment is a fan of Tool, in a Mojo interview (155 october 2006) they asked what he was lisening to at the moment and he answered: "Tool. Groups like that, becaus they're trying to provoke music into going somewhere else, which it always need to do." ------------- 
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