Those other band members
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Topic: Those other band members
Posted By: el böthy
Subject: Those other band members
Date Posted: December 02 2006 at 10:14
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Watching some videos available on youtube from the Be DVD from Pain of Salvation, I coulnt help thinking..."how must the rest of the band feel like?" You know? Cause we all know that Gildenlöw is the absolut genius behind POS, he does the lyrics, the concept, the music, and it seems that with Be he did even more than in previous albums. And of course its not only about POS, but with all thouse bands where there is one-band-man (Porcupine Tree, Jethro Tull ...you name them). So, does anyone know anything, or has any comments on this? Cause I tell you, if I where in a band like POS playing...say the guitar, and Gildenlöw is all over the place...I dont know how I would take it. This guys must be very, very good friends! ...maybe thats why Scarsick is supoused to be more of a "members effort"...maybe they were getting sick of Gildenlöws megalomaniac...  ------------- "You want me to play what, Robert?" 
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Replies:
Posted By: E-Dub
Date Posted: December 02 2006 at 11:51
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I thought the new Porcupine Tree DVD shows the other band members pretty well. I've watched the PoS Be snippits and I'm holding off. To be honest, Be isn't a favorite of mine, and going by the sound bytes I have heard of the new one, Scarsick, I may be holding back on it, too. Remedy Lane, Concrete Lake, and Perfect Element are so amazing, however.
E ------------- 
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Posted By: Gravity Eyelids
Date Posted: December 02 2006 at 12:13
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I read an interview with Rich Barbieri of PT where he complains that SW isn't the only one contributing to PT. He says it is very much a band effort and all the members contribute to the sound. So I guess he's tired of being forgotten about. ------------- Into this wild Abyss the fiend Stood on the brink of Hell and looked a while, Pondering his Voyage. |
Posted By: lightbulb_son
Date Posted: December 02 2006 at 21:18
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I remember seeing Porcupine Tree live, and it did feel to me that the show focused entirely on Steven. Gavin was off in one corner, John Wesley was shoved off to the side, Barbieri was only partially visible in the back, and their bass player (sorry I forget his name) was just standing by a stack of amps looking bored. Steve is in the middle of the stage, spotlight on, joking with the crowd, and though it was a great performance, I really felt bad for everyone else. Even John's solos where he is supposed to be the center were very small, no spotlight, passionless affairs.
I wish PT could be more like Opeth, both bands have a clear creative genius and excellent surrounding cast, but Mikael doesn't seem to grab the spotlight, Peter gets these great solos, and of course Martin is always present back there pounding away (at least he was). ------------- When the world is sick Can't no one be well But I dreamt we were all beautiful and strong 
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Posted By: Freak
Date Posted: December 02 2006 at 21:52
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The only time that's ever bothered me was during the Recital Of The Script DVD, during Rothery's two best solos ("The Web", "Grendel"), they show Fish destroying a plant and sacrificing an audience member. Still, the music's there, and Fish was really a presence. Rothery wasn't that expressive back then either, it's not like they were only showing Daltrey while Townshend was jumping around and windmilling. ------------- 
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Posted By: moebius
Date Posted: December 03 2006 at 00:00
| A band is like a human body. Someone has to be the face. |
Posted By: Harry Hood
Date Posted: December 03 2006 at 00:13
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I guess Phish was a four faced band then.
Trey could be considered the "frontman", but every band member had equal time in the spotlight. ------------- 
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Posted By: Harry Hood
Date Posted: December 03 2006 at 00:17
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And what about post-rock? It seems like all the members are just standing around looking bored and there is no spotlight at all. -------------
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Posted By: Man Overboard
Date Posted: December 03 2006 at 00:19
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Fredrik Hermanssen wrote Iter Impius, which many consider to be the standout track on Be. ------------- https://soundcloud.com/erin-susan-jennings" rel="nofollow - Bedroom guitarist". Composer, Arranger, Producer. Perfection may not exist, but I may still choose to serve Perfection. Commissions considered. |
Posted By: BePinkTheater
Date Posted: December 03 2006 at 01:10
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Kinda like the other guy from Wham! ?
------------- I can strangle a canary in a tin can and it would be really original, but that wouldn't save it from sounding like utter sh*t. -Stone Beard |
Posted By: Heff
Date Posted: December 03 2006 at 08:56
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Maybe some of those band members arent' looking for the spotlight or fame, and just really enjoy playing their instruments. It would be a high enough honor to just be playing on stage with Steven Wilson or Peter Hamill, and if I occasionally got to contribute to a few songs I would be thrilled. |
Posted By: heyitsthatguy
Date Posted: December 03 2006 at 19:10
 for some reason, post-rock especially seems to focus on the band working as a whole rather than any single standout part....maybe that's why------------- 
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Harry Hood wrote:Posted By: stonebeard
Date Posted: December 03 2006 at 19:16
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Believe me, PoS concepts and lead guitars (and in Scarsick's case, bass) may be Gildenlow's realm, but the band would dissolve if the other members were forced to play what Gildenlow wrote for them. Their creativity may not be entirely proportional, but the other members contribute a lot. ------------- http://soundcloud.com/drewagler" rel="nofollow - My soundcloud. Please give feedback if you want! |
Posted By: el böthy
Date Posted: December 04 2006 at 13:37
even in BE? ------------- "You want me to play what, Robert?"
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Posted By: sleeper
Date Posted: December 04 2006 at 14:00
Maybe a bit less in Be than before but they still would have contributed to the overall effect, as Man Overboard mentioed above, Hermansson composed Iter Impius on that album (though it was intended for The Perfect Element 2 at first). ------------- Spending more than I should on Prog since 2005 
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Posted By: prog4evr
Date Posted: December 31 2006 at 09:09
You're on to something regarding Marillion though. My understanding is that the rest of the band got tired of Fish "calling all the shots" with regards to writing, presentation, advertising, and the like. I suppose with less of a charismatic frontman, Marillion feels they are more of an ensemble-band now, instead of a back-up band for Fish.... |
Posted By: el böthy
Date Posted: December 31 2006 at 12:49
But what a price did they have to pay for it! ------------- "You want me to play what, Robert?"
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Posted By: Chris H
Date Posted: December 31 2006 at 12:54
Hmm, when I saw PT, John Wesley wasn't performing with them. (This was 2002). Steve Wilson WAS in fact in the center of the stage but Colin Edwin stepped in front of him numerous times when his bass parts got heavy. Also Richard Barbieri was the main speaker to the crowd during the down-time. Gavin did only get the spotlight once or twice but it did stay on him a while! ------------- Beauty will save the world. 
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Posted By: verslibre
Date Posted: January 02 2007 at 23:29
------------- https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_ipg=50&_sop=1&_rdc=1&_ssn=musicosm" rel="nofollow - eBay |
Posted By: Aspiring hope
Date Posted: February 14 2007 at 11:15
The only time they played The Web live and they missed the solo!  ...but, yeah, when plants are ravished by Fish's theatrical frustration, the tendency is to look at it. Still, no reason to not include a better angle!
I thought the issue that involved Fish's departure from the band was related to their acrimonies with the label (along, perhaps, with Fish's...uh...general straits), I think I remember something to the likes of some bloke coming down and demeaning Rothery saying he couldn't write a decent solo anymore...as result, Rothery almost immediately presented Hotel Hobbies solo (ouch!) - and it makes some sense that there was pressure and tension in between them, if you look at the lyrics from "That Time Of The Night". Also, whereas the lyrics were obviously written by Fish, the music was always credited for Marillion, so I'm guessing no one there was really slacking off that much. Even in Easter, you'll notice that Marillion's old formula of soaring guitar melodies and an ever so agile bass, on specific moments, together with Kelly's "soft" use of keyboards, remains. Then again, maybe it was an older scrap, I don't know, haven't bought the album. The point being: while Marillion had a tendency to appear unbalanced in terms of member significance, due to Fish's unquestionable charisma and artful covering of the band's sound, as a front-man and lyricist, he wasn't the supreme overlord for the entire band, maybe just in concept, but the deliverance of such concept was Marillion's territory, so calling it a back-up for Fish sounds extreme. Hell, I'd sooner buy Fish was backing up for them, I mean, he was pouring out lyrics and themes for the music to poise in like there was no tomorrow. -------------  |
Posted By: MadcapLaughs84
Date Posted: February 14 2007 at 11:28
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It depends of the relationship between the musicians and of cpurse if the have liberty to express themselves with some arrangements on each song. ------------- 
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Posted By: Mascodagama
Date Posted: February 14 2007 at 11:28
...and he's had it all before with David Sylvian in Japan. I think he must be really tired of it by now! ------------- Soldato of the Pan Head Mafia. We'll make you an offer you can't listen to. http://bandcamp.com/jpillbox" rel="nofollow - Bandcamp Profile |
Posted By: Aspiring hope
Date Posted: February 14 2007 at 17:37
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Ok, so I have to rectify a few things in my earlier post.
It turns out I was confounding what happened with Marillion with some other band (or maybe a frequent problem), but I think the catalyst to the band's separation from Fish lies in a manager Fish disagreed on maintaining. Probably some previous pressure was behind them and the cracks were already beginning to show...to later crumble. I think, also, that it was a producer or an engineer that debased Rothery. Anyhow, sorry for misleading you. The point still stays, though. ------------- |
Posted By: rupert
Date Posted: February 16 2007 at 14:03
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My experience as a singer/songwriter who has played in bands from the 70s to the 80s is: IT DOESN'T WORK, least not to LAST. As a songwriter I can't stand a band taking my compositions to somewhere I didn't want them to go, rehearsing hours on bits made to embarrass me, as a band-member I don't want a dominating person using me as a slave for HIS ideas... so what to do ? The only solution I see is paying professional musicians for the JOB to serve me. And if I was to serve somebody else that way they'd have to pay me, too. ------------- ...I'm a musician/singer/songwriter, visit me on www.reverbnation.com/rupertlenz and there you can choose from 125 recordings you can listen to ( for free ) if you're not limited to prog-rock ! |
Posted By: clarke2001
Date Posted: February 16 2007 at 14:15
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I think it works just fine. As a musician, I contributed to my band with ideas, passages and/or songs, and if someone could add something better to spice things up, or give the song the new direction, why not? If you're a musican, your part is always significant. If you're playing in the band, and love the band, your ultimate goal is music. There is no place for ego-trippers. ------------- |
Posted By: BaldJean
Date Posted: February 16 2007 at 14:44
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at the VdGG reunion concert in London on May 6th 2005 Peter Hammill deliberately went to the back of the stage during instrumental passages in which he did not have to play an instrument himself, occasionally pointing at band members, to demonstrate that VdGG is more than just PH + a backing band (he paced around like a tiger in a cage when he did that). this can be nicely seen in the video of "Killer" on youtube: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eaPTXK94UBA - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eaPTXK94UBA -------------  A shot of me as High Priestess of Gaia during our fall festival. Ceterum censeo principiis obsta |
Posted By: rupert
Date Posted: February 18 2007 at 11:01
Oh my perhaps, according to my own songs, I'm an ego-tripper... I perceive them in my mind with a sketch of what they should sound like already... and that's where I want them to go. It depends on the musicians you're with, of this I'm sure, maybe I've worked with the wrong ones... I've learned that, with one person who's really diggin' it, it can work just fine, but with more than one... it's strictly limited to me, see, I#m in love with the songs rather than any band and I rather do it all by myself than waste time on arrangements I didn't intend. It's always a source of conflict when a musician 2uses" a band as a platform for his songs and ideas, the "band"-idea is ending pretty soon then... why did the Dire-Straits-Line up change and change and change after the second album ? It's because it was MARK KNOPFLER'S forum for his songs.
A band should be a unit working together, pulling in all their ideas... and that's not my way of working, so I rather pay for professional musicians to play what I want them to play than abuse time and talents with a wrong label...
As a BJH-fan I do believe that the problems between Les Holroyd and John Lees/Woolly Wolstenholme came from there... BJH had stopped being a band as Woolly left, Holroyd rather saw BJH as a platform to record/release and play his own songs the way he wanted them, and because of the success build mainly on what had come before, it was an "easy" way to do it without having to have another "breakthrough" as a solo-artist... with the name established... don't wanna say he didn't like playing John's songs, but the BAND-idea got lost more and more and success appeared to be deceptive later on.
Don't know if I'm an ego-tripper that much, I'm just a songwriter who knows what he wants. There's a place for other people's ideas, too, but I want to have the last word with my songs and I wanna make the choice. If I'm working with somebody else on their songs it's my intention to help and keep them going where they want and I wanna remain in the background cause that's where I belong then, it's theirs and it's no BAND to me. I'm supporting a female singer/songwriter now so she can take anything she's learned with her and go ahead without me, it's not meant to be a lasting partnership at all ( she'd have to pay me then ).
------------- ...I'm a musician/singer/songwriter, visit me on www.reverbnation.com/rupertlenz and there you can choose from 125 recordings you can listen to ( for free ) if you're not limited to prog-rock ! |
Posted By: el böthy
Date Posted: February 18 2007 at 12:04
I know what you mean, I also am the main composer of my band...yet I now can say that changes made by the rest of the band or by all of us, while it´s good, is not something to fight...it´s better actually, as a band at least...some ideas I sometimes have sound...well, not as good as I imagined they would, so to make some changes comes in handy and almoust always, the result is good ------------- "You want me to play what, Robert?"
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Posted By: rupert
Date Posted: February 19 2007 at 11:58
LUCKY MAN you are. Well, I'm not unlucky for what I have in my mind mostly turns out to be as good as it is there and it works well when I'm playing alone, but I wouldn't know what to do if I weren't able to handle the keyboard duties, drum-programming etc. too ( I'm a learned guitarplayer ). Right: If the changes serve the song and make it better it's fine, but still I wanna have the last word cause they are MY songs... and it's not easy to find the right partners. I wouldn't mind playing songs of others, too ( in fact, at my gigs, I'm doing a lot of coverversions ) but I still don't feel ready for a band again.
Maybe I'd try in future times but that'd definately mean moving on two tracks - one the band, the other "Rupert solo", and I don't know if there is time enough... ------------- ...I'm a musician/singer/songwriter, visit me on www.reverbnation.com/rupertlenz and there you can choose from 125 recordings you can listen to ( for free ) if you're not limited to prog-rock ! |
Posted By: el böthy
Date Posted: February 19 2007 at 20:13
I know what you mean with wanting you have the last word, its completly understandable...sometimes your bandmates dont get that, as they are not songwriters, and I normally dont say that either, as I dont want to cause trouble if there is an other way to make it work. Luckly this far, we havent have a real problem, ok we are fearly new, but I dont think we will have real problems either. Actually now, the rest of the band is developing some compositions on their own for the band, which is the ultimate goal for me, to play songs from all of us. ------------- "You want me to play what, Robert?"
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Posted By: Bern
Date Posted: February 19 2007 at 20:33
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It's a fact that the Genesis members got tired of being seen as a backing band for Peter Gabriel after a while. I've read that a lot. -------------  
RIP in bossa nova heaven. |
Posted By: Chus
Date Posted: February 19 2007 at 20:47
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I'm not band material either... it's not being an ego-tripper, it's just being honest as an artist that you want to express your music your way and not be constricted by the ideas of others ------------- Jesus Gabriel |
Posted By: clarke2001
Date Posted: February 20 2007 at 10:25
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Hm, if you have almost 100% developed idea in your head how the song should like, then I guess it's better if the band follows you blindly. But the catch with my band is that we all love similar musical style(s), and that formula works perfectly. Also, if all the band memebers are fans of genre that I am fan of too, it's more likely that they will like my songs  ...and it's more likely that I will like the drumming, keyboard tapestries, guitar solo, flute solo etc. And - and that's the most important thing - music will be expressive, emotional, and we will be able to feel that certain "something" in the air.If the musicans are not enjoying the music that they play, listeners will be aware of it (no matter how good the musical idea might be). ------------- |
Posted By: Anguiad
Date Posted: February 22 2007 at 16:11
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Mathew Bellamy from Muse could be another example. He does all the lyrics, and the music composition, he plays the keyboard, guitar and sings. And all of these quite well dare say. NObody cares if the bass player or the drummer ditch the band, as long as Bellamy keeps rockin. Besides, he is an excellent frontman on stage! ------------- "Tis your birth and faith that wrong you...not I." |
Posted By: el böthy
Date Posted: February 22 2007 at 22:03
True, but I dont think they´ll ever leave the band, as they have been together sicne they were like 13 years old... and...who would want them? , now that was just mean ------------- "You want me to play what, Robert?"
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Posted By: Floydian42
Date Posted: February 22 2007 at 22:45
You know, I personally always knew Barbieri and the others had plenty to do with the music, I never forgot about them... I think why people forget about them is because Wilson and Harrison are the only ones interesting to watch. (And the drummer can never be the face of the band, there never credited for any writing talent) |
Posted By: verslibre
Date Posted: February 22 2007 at 22:49
In fact, didn't the drummer fantasize about being in the lead singer's shoes for years? ------------- https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_ipg=50&_sop=1&_rdc=1&_ssn=musicosm" rel="nofollow - eBay |
Posted By: rupert
Date Posted: February 24 2007 at 12:09
 RIGHT, pal !------------- ...I'm a musician/singer/songwriter, visit me on www.reverbnation.com/rupertlenz and there you can choose from 125 recordings you can listen to ( for free ) if you're not limited to prog-rock ! |