Why DO women like prog?
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Topic: Why DO women like prog?
Posted By: Raff
Subject: Why DO women like prog?
Date Posted: September 19 2006 at 10:04
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I've noticed that, in the past few days, quite a few fellow women have joined the PA forum - hopefully to stay for a while and not just disappear into thin air immediately afterwards. In the past, there have been several threads and polls about why women can't get into prog, some of them descending into gratuitous, sexist stereotypes about women being only interested in 'mating' music like all kinds of dance music. I thought it was time to have a thread dedicated to the opposite situation, i.e. women like me and others here who do like prog, and have for some time. I, for instance, have never been able to stand either dance music or, even worse, traditional 'female' music such as romantic pop songs, and have been into classic rock, prog and even metal for as long as I can remember. I suppose all the women who frequent these forums have a similar story to tell. Of course, guys are welcome to come here and discuss their own experiences with prog-loving ladies. So, what do you think makes a woman go for such an 'unwomanly' genre as prog, instead of piling up the Celine Dion or Barry White CDs? |
Replies:
Posted By: Proteus
Date Posted: September 19 2006 at 10:25
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My wife likes prog, er, I think. Although she is not what I'd call a conneseur (sp?). She really gets into classic prog, but everytime I bring home other kinds of bacon, she refuses to eat it. While I'm willing to explore and dive into obscurity, she's not.
But she did attend ProgDay with me and seemed to like it. As for why there is an obvious discrepancy between the sexes regarding attendance and apparent interest, I'm stumped. Maybe because most of the artists are white males? ------------- -P |
Posted By: Fassbinder
Date Posted: September 19 2006 at 10:33
| I permanently fail to understand the fact that the percentage of men liking Prog is higher than that of women. Personally, I just don't see the difference between men and women in this aspect. |
Posted By: Trickster F.
Date Posted: September 19 2006 at 10:34
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I never looked at Prog as some genre specifically for men. There are as much intelligent females as there are men, and while I wouldn't say Prog is some kind of an equivalent to music for intellectuals(as there have been numerous examples proving the opposite, and there are intellectual people who avoided or never got into prog)it is definitely a sign of individualism. I don't have much to say on the subject as I feel uncomofortable and awkward finding at least one reason why women wouldn't like a type of music for the same reason men do. ------------- sig |
Posted By: Meddler
Date Posted: September 19 2006 at 10:38
A lot of the girls i know are into (or at least like some) modern prog, but old stuff doesn't work. But I mostly listen to 00's prog anyway.  This one girl I know was listening to TMV and started giggiling saying Cedric's voice her feel all happy inside.   ------------- [IMG]http://i72.photobucket.com/albums/i165/amorfous/astro-1.jpg"> |
Posted By: mickstafa
Date Posted: September 19 2006 at 11:16
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My wife isn't too keen on most of my prog. While many women like prog, the audience is mostly male. The situation is the same for computers and technology. One aspect of prog is appreciation for the technical structure of the songs, things that appeal to more "dorky" type guys. Many women just don't listen to highly technical music for that sake alone like we do. My wife has about as many CDs as I do; she just likes things a little more catchy and modern. |
Posted By: alias10mr
Date Posted: September 19 2006 at 11:22
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Great thread Ghost Rider, as usual your insights make us reflect...
My wife was not a fan of prog until we met and I've gotten her into both prog and jazz. I think that perhaps due to the lack of exposure in certain circles( i.e. circle of friends et al. ) many people don't get to listen to the richness of this music. Since prog and classical music are often identified as being related I don't think that music preference is a question of gendre or we would not see so many women at classical concerts. Also I tend to have a theory by which if , as a child, you were stimulated intellectually to diverse sights, sounds, foods,etc, as an adult you probably have a more open mind to experiment with the likes of what i've described. |
Posted By: Dirk
Date Posted: September 19 2006 at 11:27
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Maybe a parallel with chess can be drawn? It's well known that there are much more male than female chessplayers, the reason that is usually given to explain this phenomenon is that men are more interested in focusing in depth on one specific topic (such as chess) than women who generally have a broader field of interest. Since appreciating prog takes some effort and focusing (for me that is) i wonder if a similar mechanism might be at work here, i'm not sure actually. At least my girlfriend is an exception to the rule, the first band she heard 30 years ago was Yes and she's been into prog ever since eventually convincing me by dragging me to concerts of Ayreon  . |
Posted By: Arsillus
Date Posted: September 19 2006 at 11:36
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Maybe there are a lot more than we know, but they don't join internet forums dedicated to it. Or maybe they keep it under wraps for whatever risk or reason. They are too hard to understand. |
Posted By: glass house
Date Posted: September 19 2006 at 11:36
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Quote Dirk : Since appreciating prog takes some effort and focusing (for me that is) i wonder if a similar mechanism might be at work here, i'm not sure actually- end quote.
I was wondering what Karin thought of this?
 . |
Posted By: Philéas
Date Posted: September 19 2006 at 11:43
| I was introduced to Prog by one of my friends, who happens to be a woman. |
Posted By: mystic fred
Date Posted: September 19 2006 at 11:45
....moi???
 seriously folks......
it is very refreshing to have opinions on Prog and music in general from people of either sex, all ages, creeds and nationalities - the more the merrier! Actually as Prog is generally considered to be more beautiful, interesting and challenging than many other forms of rock and popular music (nothing to do with intelligence, i love it and i'm no intellectual by any means!), i would have thought there would be many more ladies interested in it, the same with classical music, i see many women at prog concerts (and classical music concerts) so i look forward to meeting them on PA.
 -------------  Prog Archives Tour Van 
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Ghost Rider wrote:Posted By: Sean Trane
Date Posted: September 19 2006 at 12:26
Well there goes my Gentlemen reputation
 !! Well it was only a reputation.
As a matter of fact, Raf took these words out of one of my posts.
Well I am guilty of this kind of conclusion and as all clichés they are based on a solid and undeniable base .
 While I admit that my girlfriend and a few before (but I got them to know prog), they are mostly aware of prog because I told them it was called such. My girlfriend's fave prog groups would be Floyd and Moody Blues. But as soon as there is the slightest hint of jazz, dissonance or lack of obvious melody she (and countless of other women, but also a good amount of males) loses interests and actually will nag me until I change. And if I may say so, this is a recurring thing with most women I meet
  . But overall if I choose the easier listening prog, I get no hassle from her, so I do not complain.But let's face it , I have never seen a crowd of five or six women going to a Spock Beard or a Yes concert (or even Floyd for that matter) by themselves. When I look around in the audience this is usually minimum 80% male and the few women that are there are wives or girlfriends tagging along (usually they like a bit of prog). There is the exception that confirms the rule, but it is an exception and the rule is not that much a cliché.
BTW, I waited for women to post here and when I saw this was to be another almost-male-only thread, I dived.
 ------------- let's just stay above the moral melee prefer the sink to the gutter keep our sand-castle virtues content to be a doer as well as a thinker, prefer lifting our pen rather than un-sheath our sword |
Posted By: sm sm
Date Posted: September 19 2006 at 12:32
There are probably similar sexist stereotypes about men who can't get into dance music (because their too neandrathal, etc), except its also promoted through taxpayer assisted women's (read - Feminist) programs or venues that would not allow simialr sexism against women.
Chances are both sexism would also come equally from one's own gender, where if a man likes dance music, he would be labled emasculate by men, or if a woman likes prog, she would be labeled as butch by women There's also an attitude that attracting more of the opposite gender would worsen the music.
E.g. Bon Jovi and Poison were considered "chick metal bands", which did worsen the music by turning metal into nothing but pop music with distortion
I'm sure attracting more men to female dominated music would be considered to worsen the music as well.
In reality, it was the perceivement by the music monguls of how to attract more of the opposite gender that worsened the music.
That said, women need to tell such people that they like prog ala Genesis in the Peter Gabriel or Collins/Hackett manner, and not in the "tonight, tonight" manner that the moguls would encourage prog to sound like in order to attact more women.
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Posted By: Sean Trane
Date Posted: September 19 2006 at 12:44
Thing is that males are always coined as sexists and obsessed, but only women go to concerts of artists that they find cute (such as Bon Anchiove). And most of the males going to Anchiove concerts is to try to pick up chicks. (maybe the rare unaccompanied women go to prog concert to pick up cute dudes and never return because there aren't any
)I have yet to meet a guy that went to a Britney Spears concert because he thought she was cute (and she bloody well is).
Most women go to crooner concert (such as Helmut Lotti) because not only does he sing correctly at best (and this is Belgian speaking) but also (and mostly) because he is "cute".
------------- let's just stay above the moral melee prefer the sink to the gutter keep our sand-castle virtues content to be a doer as well as a thinker, prefer lifting our pen rather than un-sheath our sword |
Posted By: el böthy
Date Posted: September 19 2006 at 13:03
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I will take two examples of my two best girl friends One is very much into art and lets say she is a bit out of the box, in the best of ways. She does like prog, some of it, most of what I have shown her she has liked. Her favorite prog album is Tales form topo...!!! Recently she became a fan of Ayreon, enjoys prog metal...but at the same time she loves dancing, electronic music and all the tipical girls stuff! Normally a not very focused person, but she almoust inmidiatly knows if there is something she doesnt like. Actually I went to see Nexus with this friend, and she said soemthing I would have not expected from a non exclusive prog listener "The vocals where ok, but I think this kind of band would not suffer the total lack of them" Interesting... The other is very much the girl next door, she loves dancing I think more than anything... and of course does not know about prog and doenst want to know about it. Her music taste is awefull, with some exceptions...very few of course. This girl on the other hand is very focused and normally gets away with anything she puts her mind to it, even if its too hard. As you can see this girl has a more narrow taste, she pretty much only likes music where you can move your body to and wont listen to soemthing withour lyrics as Im sure she thinks the singer is the msot important part of a band. Not to be mean or anything, but this girl is probably much smarter than the previous one. I dont know if this has helped...but I just wanted to show that it doesnt necesarly has to do with intelligents or how focused a woman is...I think when it comes to women, more than in men, it has to do with how much of an "artist" they are or how much they like that stuff! ------------- "You want me to play what, Robert?" 
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Posted By: Raff
Date Posted: September 19 2006 at 13:06
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Posted By: Harry Hood
Date Posted: September 19 2006 at 13:20
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My girlfriend and I bonded over our intrest in alternative rock. She doesn't seem ionterested in prog, however she enjoys "prog realted" artists such as Muse, The Flaming Lips, and Radiohead. Once I played King Crimson's Disicipline for her and she thought it was "cool, but weird". I also had an ex-boyfriend who was mostly into new wave and post-punk, but he enjoyed 80's Crimson as well.
But I guess prog's gay fanbase is a topic for another day. ------------- 
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Posted By: Zweck
Date Posted: September 19 2006 at 13:46
I want what you're on. |
Posted By: heyitsthatguy
Date Posted: September 19 2006 at 13:54
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I don't believe that there is a single girl at my school that knows what "prog" is... ------------- 
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Posted By: darkshade
Date Posted: September 19 2006 at 14:09
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if there's one prog band women love, it's Phish. There used to be just as many women and there were men at Phish concerts when they were still around.
i also noticed a lot fo girls like Pink Floyd, but i honestly feel it's for different reasons then men. first off, i highly doubt they're familiar with anything earlier than Meddle (or even DSOTM) and probably only like the big 4 (excluding Animals sometimes) and their singles from those albums. 2nd, there is a kind of trend to like Pink Floyd again, with DSOTM shirts everywhere and emo kids sportin them once in a while.
Japanese women LOOOVE Dream Theater though.. ------------- http://www.last.fm/user/MysticBoogy" rel="nofollow - My Last.fm 
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Posted By: AcostaFulano
Date Posted: September 19 2006 at 14:29
DAVID GILMOUR  |
Posted By: Kleynan
Date Posted: September 19 2006 at 14:30
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One of my best friends digs TMV and Pink Floyd. She's a female. ------------- 
You've just had a heavy session of electroshock therapy, and you're more relaxed than you've been in weeks. |
Posted By: BaldJean
Date Posted: September 19 2006 at 14:36
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well, I grew up with prog (and with classical music, by the way); my parents both were (and in case of my mother still are; my father sadly died of a heart attack last year) big proggers. but then they were both hippies at the time I was born (I was an accident, more or less), so it isn't that big a surprise. and it was no wonder they were hippies; living in SF in 1968 and being 18 at that time it would have been more a surprise if they had not been hippies -------------  A shot of me as High Priestess of Gaia during our fall festival. Ceterum censeo principiis obsta |
Posted By: Tony R
Date Posted: September 19 2006 at 14:40
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I am lucky that my wife likes many of the more popular Prog Bands like Rush,PT,Genesis and Pink Floyd etc.
She has accompanied me to see Rush and Porcupine Tree recently. |
Posted By: alias10mr
Date Posted: September 19 2006 at 15:11
Like I mentioned in an earlier post, it's often the childhood influences which dictate our adult tastes. When I was a young boy, my father used to tell me stories about the times he'd lived being a bouncer in jazz clubs in Montreal in the 50's. He was a fan of the Nat Cole Trio and to this day I still immensely enjoy the music my father listened to ... |
Posted By: Man Overboard
Date Posted: September 19 2006 at 15:25
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My girlfriend's really into The Flower Kings, probably because of me ...then again, my girlfriend's actually a guy  ------------- https://soundcloud.com/erin-susan-jennings" rel="nofollow - Bedroom guitarist". Composer, Arranger, Producer. Perfection may not exist, but I may still choose to serve Perfection. Commissions considered. |
Posted By: ResidentAlien
Date Posted: September 19 2006 at 15:26
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I met this girl the summer before last who was as big a prog-head as me. She was utter perfection, and at the time, sadly not single. Unfortunately I fell out of touch with her recently... hopefully she'll get online again soon so I can get her new number from her. But yeah, it baffles me too. A lot of the ladies I know are into the arts, but even so most of them don't like prog. Call me picky, but I'm looking for a chick who can dig on Pink Floyd, VDGG, Frank Zappa, Mike Patton, etc as much as myself. |
Posted By: NecroManiac
Date Posted: September 19 2006 at 15:27
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^
I've found that girls usualy like trip hop, which is often very experimental.
Once you go from there, prog should be a logical folow up. ------------- 
What's yer faovrite album? =^_^= |
Posted By: Melomaniac
Date Posted: September 19 2006 at 15:30
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My girl loves Rush, Gentle Giant, Porcupine Tree, Saga, Opeth, Arena, Threshold and a few others... But she HATES Dream Theater! ------------- "One likes to believe in the freedom of Music" - Neil Peart, The Spirit of Radio |
Posted By: omri
Date Posted: September 19 2006 at 15:37
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Rafaela,
You, together with baldjean and threefates are the only females I know of in this forum. I do'nt realy understand why men are more into prog than women but it's a fact. My wife loves late PF (from Atom heart mother to The wall) and are fine with some Genesys and KC (mostly the soft parts though). Yet, she hates high female voices such as Kate Bush, Tori Amos and even Annie Hasslem. Who can realy understand a woman !!!!!!!!! ------------- omri |
Posted By: WickerRocker
Date Posted: September 19 2006 at 15:39
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In my location if a woman listens to rock music, she listens to punk or modern rock. But some women listen to prog(and they probably do not know that it is prog) but they are a misserably low percent. ------------- 'You can`t kill, what`s stronger than death': Zakk Wylde |
Posted By: I|I|I|I|I
Date Posted: September 19 2006 at 16:02
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Um... my girlfriend listens to some proggy kinda stuff - Fairport Convention (it's under prog-related) Tool (which is actually her favorite band, heh) Explosions in the Sky (post-rock) and she also listens to some very good music otherwise, such as Hendrix or Zeppelin which can be considered borderline prog. As to why... um... I don't know? She knows next to nothing about music, so it can't be due to some kind of musical intellect. So I don't know. Maybe she's just a natural at telling what music is the most intelligent. ------------- Go and listen to my music. http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=31725 |
Posted By: I|I|I|I|I
Date Posted: September 19 2006 at 16:05
You know, I think the criteria is "women" who listen to prog... we've already established that men are the dominant demographic And you know, sometimes I think my girlfriend's a guy at heart too... she plays too many videogames and listens to "guy" music... eh, it just makes her more lovable in my book. ------------- Go and listen to my music. http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=31725 |
Posted By: Man Overboard
Date Posted: September 19 2006 at 16:10
I'd say my girlfriend qualifies as a girl She's got a male's body, but she goes by Amy, and is pretty much a girl, every way but physically... it's a strange situation, but I'm compassionate to it  ------------- https://soundcloud.com/erin-susan-jennings" rel="nofollow - Bedroom guitarist". Composer, Arranger, Producer. Perfection may not exist, but I may still choose to serve Perfection. Commissions considered. |
Posted By: BaldJean
Date Posted: September 19 2006 at 16:11
you forgot BaldFriede, my wife  ------------- A shot of me as High Priestess of Gaia during our fall festival. Ceterum censeo principiis obsta |
Posted By: I|I|I|I|I
Date Posted: September 19 2006 at 16:18
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Heh, my girlfriend is quite a woman in her appearance and quite a male in every other way (except sexual preference) many people would say I'm lucky, and maybe I am... but I'd say anyone's lucky if they have a good relationship (as you seem to do with Amy) ------------- Go and listen to my music. http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=31725 |
Posted By: Man Overboard
Date Posted: September 19 2006 at 16:20
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Maybe your girlfriend is a gay man in a woman's body... what's that make you? ------------- https://soundcloud.com/erin-susan-jennings" rel="nofollow - Bedroom guitarist". Composer, Arranger, Producer. Perfection may not exist, but I may still choose to serve Perfection. Commissions considered. |
Posted By: Soupykan
Date Posted: September 19 2006 at 16:35
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My girlfriend loves Pink Floyd, from Piper to The Wall, as well as Yes and Queen. She is one of the biggest Floyd fans I know.
My mother introduced me to both Genesis and Yes. Her sister is probably the biggest Yes fan I know. Her other sister is a Dead Head, but also found time to see Zappa on numerous occasions.
Honestly, I think that while prog may have a larger male fanbase, women can appreciate prog music just as much as men. ------------- She ruled the toads of the short forest And every Newt in Idaho.... |
Posted By: Hibou
Date Posted: September 19 2006 at 16:58
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Ah, Ghost Rider, you’re fast becoming my new prog hero First, let me say that I’m a 56-year old female (don’t ever say you’re too old for prog!). The way I see it is women’s brains are different from men’s, with possible repercussions on (among other things) our respective music appreciation. For the same reason you won’t find many females standing with their hands crossed behind their backs, staring at a construction site (althrough there are some), you don’t find too many females who enjoy highly technical music (again, there are some but they are a minority) - and prog provides plenty of this. I, myself, don’t easily make concessions when it comes to melody contents: a piece can feature odd-time signatures and take many crazy twists & turns, but some harmony must come of it all to satisfy my female brain (that’s why I like mostly symphonic and neo prog). When music steers too far away from melody, I feel like I’m trying to connect with someone lacking basic human emotions. This doesn’t mean I like syrupy ballads, far from it: hip-hop, new age music and crooners absolutely bore me to death. I’d say if you’re female, not only must you have an ear for music, but you must make music a priority in your life if you want to enjoy prog : turn the phone off the hook, don’t answer the door, “don’t talk to me for the next four hours while I strap my headphones on” sort of thing. Very few women are encouraged to endulge in such a “selfish” pastime, what with our family lives, raising the kids and all. One day, surely, someone will find a satisfying explanation for this female lack of interest in prog. But something tells me it has to do with (1) the way our respective brains process musical information and (2) the socialogical context that discourages women from indulging in a hobby you mostly emjoy alone. Sorry for raveling on so. I don’t write often but I just couldn’t let that wonderful thread pass without putting my two cents in. Keep on progging, ladies, and don’t ever let that proggy flame die inside ------------- [IMG]http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b311/Progueuse/Album.jpg"> Gene Police: You!! Out of the pool! |
! And with a thread like this, you’d think all female proggers would finally be coming out of the woodwork. But alas... So here I go.Posted By: Danielle
Date Posted: September 19 2006 at 17:30
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I never realized that females usually stay away from prog, but then again, I don't talk to many girls, so I wouldn't know. Personally, I started listening to prog because I got sick of death metal and black metal (which is much less feminine than prog) because I wanted something more melodic and listenable. I used to be a HUGE Opeth fan, so that opened the door for me, leading me to discover more and more prog bands. Another reason that I love this genre is because I'm a musician of sorts, so I have the utmost respect for anyone who can create such masterpieces as most prog songs are. |
Posted By: eugene
Date Posted: September 19 2006 at 17:38
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I know some women who like prog, and can't understand why the should not.
On the other hand none of the women I know participates in any internet forums. ------------- carefulwiththataxe |
Posted By: bhikkhu
Date Posted: September 19 2006 at 17:41
And what, pray tell, is wrong with Barry White?!! ------------- a.k.a. H.T. http://riekels.wordpress.com" rel="nofollow - http://riekels.wordpress.com |
Posted By: Peter
Date Posted: September 19 2006 at 17:41
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Oh! Why do women like PROG.... They like it because of its cute name, its impressive length, and because Hugues Chantraine likes it, of course! ------------- "And, has thou slain the Jabberwock? Come to my arms, my beamish boy! O frabjous day! Callooh! Callay!' He chortled in his joy. |
Posted By: Peter
Date Posted: September 19 2006 at 17:52
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Seriously though, statistically, aren't men more likely to be serious music fans, in whatever genre, than women? (Look around you in a record or hi fidelity store.)
I imagine, as was said above, that the ample beauty to be found in (real) prog helps draw some ladies, too.
It was at first the "weirdness" and power that attracted me to prog, BTW, but the beauty that got me really hooked -- I love those acoustic passages in old Genesis & PFM, etc! Long live my "sensitive" side! ------------- "And, has thou slain the Jabberwock? Come to my arms, my beamish boy! O frabjous day! Callooh! Callay!' He chortled in his joy. |
Posted By: YYZed
Date Posted: September 19 2006 at 19:48
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Whoever said that prog appeals to the "dorky" side of men I think hit it on the head. In the way that men are naturally more interested in mechanics, technology and the like, I think they tend to be attracted to technically superior music. I think it is much easier for men to listen to complex music and be grabbed by it, if only for that technicallity. Of course, just as there are exceptions to everything we say about the tendencies and personalities of men and women, there are women who enjoy prog. Good for them. It's prog. Hooray prog! ------------- 
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Posted By: Reverie
Date Posted: September 19 2006 at 21:27
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I don't think men are naturally interested in mechanics etc. I think it's more of a case of that's how guys are raised. That's the mould, if you see what i mean. It's just been that guys are brought into the world expecting to be hands on kind of people, and women caring and empathic. Maybe that's what you meant though. Thankfully i think this is deteriorating more and more as time progresses. But you may have a point YYZed. It's an interesting idea.
Well anyway, i used to be a complete metal head, and i still enjoy heavy metal, and am in a heavy metal band. And i can safely say that there are PLENTY of females who like metal. Hell, the bassist in my band is a chick, and we have an interested vocalist who is a chick (yeah, a chick death metal singer, and she does it very well). I was at a Dark Tranquillity (melodic death metal) gig last night, and while males may have made up the percentages, there were a vast array of females as well. So that kind of supports that those moulds are expanding i think, and that women don't just listen to dance music and love ballads at all. I know metal is not (necessarily) prog, but the principle is the same. |
Posted By: mickstafa
Date Posted: September 19 2006 at 21:50
That was me
Yep. I can't speak for everyone, but the love (obsession?) for prog is similar kind of feeling I have for all my other typical guy (and somewhat dorky) passions. |
Posted By: Arrrghus
Date Posted: September 19 2006 at 21:51
Most of the time, that is typical. However, I know many women musicians who listen to classical music (some of which can be much more challenging than prog). The biggest problem is the brainwashing: before music became corporate-driven, women listened to pretty much the same as men. For example, my grandmother listened to jazz (Glenn Miller, Benny Goodman, Duke Ellington) in the 30s and 40s. ------------- 
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Posted By: mickstafa
Date Posted: September 19 2006 at 21:53
I'm no Jazz expert (I'm just now getting into Weather report, Mahavishnu and Miles Davis) but from what I hear Jazz seems like a great mixture for technical precision (men) and music you can tap your foot to/dance to (women). Note these are generalizations, not sexist remarks!!! |
Posted By: Leningrad
Date Posted: September 19 2006 at 22:55
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Well, let's see if Dr. Cham can solve this one. Well, whereas many years ago, prog was what was hip. It was, generally, pretty cool to like it. Men and women both liked it (My mother's seen Yes and Genesis, and was a King Crimson fan). Now, in the modern world, prog is quite an underground genre, and due to its technical nature, frowned upon, because people have been dumbed down by crappy mainstream pop-punk/emo/rap... etc. Now, it's also true that girls have gotten...well, skankier these days, for a lack of a better term. No, not all, but you should see my high school. Generally, these girls want to be cool and get boyfriends, and since most teenage boys are unbelievably shallow, they don't want to be nerdy or uncool. Now, what's going to make them seem more popular - Today's #1 hits about sex, violence and assault, or a 20 minute ode to The Lord of the Rings?
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Posted By: yesfan88
Date Posted: September 19 2006 at 23:37
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Being a woman, it has frequently perplexed me that most women don't like prog. I really don't understand why, especially because some prog sounds very feminine. Yes and Renaissance are my two favorite bands, but they are also favorites of my best friend who is male, and who got me into prog in the first place.
I have noticed that it doesn't seem to be a gender thing so much as nobody my age is willing to listen to complicated music, or indeed, read a book. ------------- "I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it"- Evelyn Beatrice Hall |
Posted By: Bastille Dude
Date Posted: September 19 2006 at 23:49
I am very fortunate that my wife not only tolerates most of my music, but actually likes some of it. Because of me she loves Pink Floyd, Rush, Yes, Marillion, Genesis, Jethro Tull and Gentle Giant. 
------------- DEATH TO FALSE PROG! |
Posted By: Cygnus X-2
Date Posted: September 19 2006 at 23:53
The 20 minute ode to LotR of course.  ------------- 
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Posted By: Drew
Date Posted: September 19 2006 at 23:57
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What are women? ------------- |
Posted By: Leningrad
Date Posted: September 19 2006 at 23:58
Now, I would definitely agree...
but would people who only care about their image?  |
Posted By: stonebeard
Date Posted: September 20 2006 at 00:02
I'll create a poll. ------------- http://soundcloud.com/drewagler" rel="nofollow - My soundcloud. Please give feedback if you want! |
Posted By: Peter
Date Posted: September 20 2006 at 00:04
That's pole. ------------- "And, has thou slain the Jabberwock? Come to my arms, my beamish boy! O frabjous day! Callooh! Callay!' He chortled in his joy. |
Posted By: stonebeard
Date Posted: September 20 2006 at 00:06
I already have one of those. No need to make a new one. ------------- http://soundcloud.com/drewagler" rel="nofollow - My soundcloud. Please give feedback if you want! |
Posted By: Drew
Date Posted: September 20 2006 at 00:07
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Posted By: valravennz
Date Posted: September 20 2006 at 00:30
Hibou
You have stolen my thunder - well actually expressed my thoughts very well.
 I am a female who is now hitting the 50 year mark age wise. I have been fortunate to live in an environment where music has been a priority in the house. I was brought up listening to classical music and jazz and discovered prog music at the time of it's so called, inception in the late 1960's. So - like yourself, Bald Jean, Bald Friede and Three Fates for example, we have grown up with Prog and we are passionate about different aspects of the music - whether it be indepth analysis of prog's technicalities or sheer listening pleasure. I find it hard to believe that there are not many more women who share our passion for prog music. But I agree that the time constraints placed on many women due to family and work committments can mean in many instances of women not being able to make time to listen to music whether it be prog or anything else, for longer than three and a half minutes that is the average length of a pop song. A pity - as woman can and do, make significant contributions to prog music and unbeknown to many guys, to this forum - cheers ------------- 
"Music is the Wine that fills the cup of Silence" - Robert Fripp |
Posted By: SolariS
Date Posted: September 20 2006 at 01:00
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Just to throw out a general observation. The majority of forums are dominated by men....whether they are about prog or anything else. -------------  
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Posted By: valravennz
Date Posted: September 20 2006 at 01:04
True because the majority of members of PA's forum are men!! - proves my point to some extent don't you think. -------------
"Music is the Wine that fills the cup of Silence" - Robert Fripp |
Posted By: Peter
Date Posted: September 20 2006 at 01:13
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^ Yes, Hibou as a father of a boy and a girl, as a happily married man, and as a guy who as a teen had a cool, music-loving (a fair bit of prog, too) older sister, I think that general patterns of gender-specific behaviour are almost always a result of biology and societal conditioning.
To pretend there are no real differences in the mental processes of the genders flies in the face of current science, and my own observation of my two children as they grew.
(Of course, as always, I am referring to general trends -- there are always exceptions. I manifest many of them myself, truth be told.)
Good post, & good to "see" you here, as always, Lise!  ------------- "And, has thou slain the Jabberwock? Come to my arms, my beamish boy! O frabjous day! Callooh! Callay!' He chortled in his joy. |
Posted By: SolariS
Date Posted: September 20 2006 at 01:15
Well, I don't know that women have any more or less time than men, but I do think it's kinda strange that even on HUGE forums like Offtopic.net, the majority of users are men. Confused...-------------
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Posted By: Eetu Pellonpaa
Date Posted: September 20 2006 at 03:08
All ladies are welcome! http://www.freesmileys.org"> Please break the carricatyre conceptions!
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Posted By: Sean Trane
Date Posted: September 20 2006 at 04:01
You sure you're not confusing prog with prong?
 Thanks!!! I guess!
 
That's allright, the majority of men are lesbians anyway: we only we sleep with women
------------- let's just stay above the moral melee prefer the sink to the gutter keep our sand-castle virtues content to be a doer as well as a thinker, prefer lifting our pen rather than un-sheath our sword |
Posted By: Sean Trane
Date Posted: September 20 2006 at 04:28
Aaaaaaaahhhhhhhhh!!!!!!!!!!!!.............
It takes a sexist thread to bring Lise out of the woodwork!
You are way too rare on this forum, Lise
 (so are women in general).You know outside of Jean's very valid points of our background defining our tastes. But men and women are fundamentaly different and there are some more appealling area of interest according to the sex you belong to. I was always one to prefer equivalence than absolute equality: The European laws hazve now set that the maximum weight to be raised by a worker without machinery is 25 Kg for men and 15 Kg for women, which is of course understandable, suitable and "wishable".
I have friends that have raised their children (a boy and a girl) to be completely asexual in terms of role, toys , friends, entertainment/TV and even clothes (I never said I agreed with this either) and they got really shocked when once the kids got to another (childless or more like children had flown from the nest) home, but with a bunch of games and toys and their little "boy" (if you can still call that poor kid that) threw himself on the toy guns, and their little girl on the dolls. All that work of negating the sex difference for nothing (I was secretly jumping up and down when they told me this). This to explain that construction site (or games) and other areas of creation (prog included) are more interesting to men because women have the advantage of creating life with their body, and men feel that they have to create differently because they were the odd one out in the child/mother relationship.
So women are a minority in prog!!! I wish it was not so, but men are the vast minority at Madonna concerts. Have to go with the flow and to try to change that is probably wishful thinking.
Actually I participate in the Progressive Ears forum and there is a higher percentage of women (roughly 1/4) there and the some of the threads turn soon or later into sex tirades where the women get often the upper hand.
------------- let's just stay above the moral melee prefer the sink to the gutter keep our sand-castle virtues content to be a doer as well as a thinker, prefer lifting our pen rather than un-sheath our sword |
Posted By: Australian
Date Posted: September 20 2006 at 04:36
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I ain't a women so I really don't know, but I'd imagine that women who do listen to classic rock and prog to be a little more adevnturous than usual. I, for instance didn’t know anyone else who listened to prog early on. I’m always looking to do something different, and prog is one of those differences.
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Posted By: Raff
Date Posted: September 20 2006 at 04:44
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Can I add my voice to the discussion? I think the point some of you (Hugues, Lise, Valravennz and others) made is quite valid: men and women are undoubtedly different, as it is useless to pretend that biology may not have any influence on intellectual and psychological makeup. However, the influence of society is also not to be discounted, especially in times like ours, where such differences are exploited in order to allow people to make money out of them - see for instance the model of female appearance propagated by the media, which induces many women to invest enormous sums of money to conform to that model. This is also valid for things like music, books, movies and such other cultural manifestations. Besides, although it cannot be denied that those differences exist, we should also be careful of so-called scientific discovery on the matter. As a matter of fact, those finds can easily be used to discriminate women in the workplace (as it already happens far too often even in 'civilised' countries) or in other walks of life. What I personally believe is that differences mainly exist among individuals, as far as things like character, inclinations, abilities and such are concerned. Musical tastes also fall within these categories, as does what Hugues calls creativity. There are women who are more creative than certain men, and the other way around - and this is true for ANY sector of life, in my very humble opinion. |
Posted By: progrockgirl
Date Posted: September 20 2006 at 04:53
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I love the sheer exhilaration of progressive rock's time changes,
dynamics, and musical virtuosity. Perhaps I can trace my interest back
to a chance sighting of the Mahavishnu Orchestra on Don Kirshner's Rock
Concert back when I was 11 years old. I had never heard anything like
them before. Several years later, I developed an interest in Yes after my high school gym teacher played "Going for the One" on the last day of class. My love of progressive rock just took off from there. |
Posted By: Sean Trane
Date Posted: September 20 2006 at 05:21
------------- let's just stay above the moral melee prefer the sink to the gutter keep our sand-castle virtues content to be a doer as well as a thinker, prefer lifting our pen rather than un-sheath our sword |
Posted By: peroxidess
Date Posted: September 20 2006 at 06:06
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a em Hmm I am a woman I just reached 30 and i 've been listening to Prog for a very very very long time... I had my puberty break with some mainstream sh*t aka Michael Jackson and the like but I can't imagine my life without all these bands... And I have a madness over construction sites and corroded metal does that make me less of a woman? I am being terrosised here people... And now a tale... I was with a guy who had a definite madness over prog ... and I couldn't comprehend his need to discover because all he had discovered I listened to all my life...aka Doors, Floyd, Zeppein, Genesis, Yes, Camel, Rush, blah blah blah... I showed him a couple of my favourite lps and he was taking notes...And so was I when he bought cds I totally wanted and never heard of... like Gentle Giant at the time. But there was one thing that you havent mentioned and I felt. He was trying so hard to prove that he knew, that he understood that he was the complex one that at some point I lost interest in music.I couldn't enjoy it when he was there. I felt as if he was pushing me aside from my own music and childhood memories... and it took a long time and conversations about music and how we should both enjoy it for me to be able to start discovering in my own way again. Sometimes males act as if they are so special in understaning and appreciating that women just ignore their choices. P.S. I have a nice small collection of Lps and tapes and I am rebuing them in cds and downlading them via mp3 so I can listen to them everywhere...is that a bigger deal cause I am a woman? ------------- The universe is in constant pursuit of a celestial home. |
Posted By: Dirk
Date Posted: September 20 2006 at 07:04
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Posted By: NutterAlert
Date Posted: September 20 2006 at 08:34
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Women per se are cool
Women who like prog are cooler still
Men, i'm afraid, are not ------------- Proud to be an un-banned member since 2005 |
Posted By: darkshade
Date Posted: September 20 2006 at 08:45
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i dont think women know how to bring the funk. Funk is one of the genre's of music that's universally found throughout this wide spectrum known as prog (whether you realize it or not) esp. jazz-fusion. i think women to start listenin to that p-funk, and prog lovers of all sexes will unite! ------------- http://www.last.fm/user/MysticBoogy" rel="nofollow - My Last.fm
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Posted By: Peter
Date Posted: September 20 2006 at 08:51
^  Hugues, much like prog, you KNOW you're a chick-magnet!
The only thing worse than being talked about, is not being talked about.... ------------- "And, has thou slain the Jabberwock? Come to my arms, my beamish boy! O frabjous day! Callooh! Callay!' He chortled in his joy. |
Posted By: darkshade
Date Posted: September 20 2006 at 09:00
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i dont wanna sound sexist, but look at classical music. obviously this is the biggest influence on prog. more so than jazz, psychedelia, etc. all the great composers were men, and then all the classic prog bands were all men as well. ive yet to see a musical movement where women were the majority in the creative force behind it.
although it's true, there's more women in orchestra's and symphonies these days. this may be due to men thinking it's "gay" to do that and would rather be in bands, but i doubt this, since i know people in marching band drum corps. ------------- http://www.last.fm/user/MysticBoogy" rel="nofollow - My Last.fm
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Posted By: Sean Trane
Date Posted: September 20 2006 at 09:06
Sssssssshhhhhhhhhhhhhh!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!...................
You crazy or sumthin' ????????
Want everybody to find out that prog is really a chick-magnet?
 Let's keep it a secret so we can share in equal shares of the chickpie (75-25% in my favor)
 and let those self-confessed losers keeping the way they are..............  virginsAnyway, it really depends on my last meal, you know, the garlic thing
?!?!------------- let's just stay above the moral melee prefer the sink to the gutter keep our sand-castle virtues content to be a doer as well as a thinker, prefer lifting our pen rather than un-sheath our sword |
Posted By: Proteus
Date Posted: September 20 2006 at 09:18
Couldn't be better said. I'm not sure there exists a satisfactory answer to the original question, however. As for women in online chats, you guys just aren't looking in the right place. ------------- -P |
Posted By: Prog.Sylvie
Date Posted: September 20 2006 at 09:54
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Interesting subject.
At the prog.fest this week end, there were more men than women. I enjoyed myself between all those guys who seems to know prog. better than me.
When I was 16 years old, all my female friends liked prog.music. While the brother of one of my friends was a disco maniac, we were sitting downstairs listening Genesis, KC , ELP or PF. This guy told us many times that we were some sort of crazy, and that disco was better music. We did not mind, and still listen our favorite music.
On the other hand, it never stopped me to go dancing, but I was dancing on Jazz bar rock instead of discotheques. I danced on rock, blues, and prog. too. This weekend , I explained to my american boy friends ( guys that I met at the prog.fest), how we danced on ITCOTKC. He did not know how we can dance on prog. music.
What I can say, is that on the seventies, we all grew up with this music, no matter if we were boys or girls. On the other hand, I can not say that I like the metal prog. music, except a little bit of Dream Theater that I discovered lately.
You can go read my review of the prog.fest on that specific thread.
Salut de Sylvie ------------- C'est la vie |
Posted By: Sean Trane
Date Posted: September 20 2006 at 10:06
Salut Sylvie
Actually you are right most of us were listening to all kind of music, but the punks and Disco fiends were the ones being way too trendy and busy trying to put us down. While in Toronto, the disco craze was quite important I remember that in Quebec it took gigantic proportions litteraly wiping out whole facets of Quebecois music from the airwaves. And in the Toronto French schools we had tons of new arrivals of Quebecois that had followed the economic exodus from Mtl to Tor (after the PQ arrival to power), and a good bunch of those kids only listened to disco and were hughly unpleasant in their craze. But this was only the guys being unpleasant, the girls were quite more open. I often had better contacts about music with the Quebecoise than with their brothers.
If it was not for CHOM FM, there was absolutely no prog from 78 onwards in the FM or AM airwaves in La Belle Province.
------------- let's just stay above the moral melee prefer the sink to the gutter keep our sand-castle virtues content to be a doer as well as a thinker, prefer lifting our pen rather than un-sheath our sword |
Posted By: Prog.Sylvie
Date Posted: September 20 2006 at 10:10
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The golden age was between 1970 to 1978. After that, It was over for most part, but we still listened to our old record by the time , and some new things, like Alan Parson projects and many other things. We did not care and we still don't care of what most of the people listen to, that's their problem.
Are you going to see Roger Waters playing Pink Floyd tomorrow ? I will be there. I want to hear Dark Side of the Moon live, from the first note to the last. It must be marvelous. ------------- C'est la vie |
Posted By: Sean Trane
Date Posted: September 20 2006 at 10:56
If you are talking to MOI
, I'd love to make it a date, but the transatlantic flights from Brussels or Amsterdam are alml booked up.I left Canada in 88 and only came back 4 times on holidays! How was FMPM? ------------- let's just stay above the moral melee prefer the sink to the gutter keep our sand-castle virtues content to be a doer as well as a thinker, prefer lifting our pen rather than un-sheath our sword |
Posted By: Prog.Sylvie
Date Posted: September 20 2006 at 11:04
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Go on the thread about this topic. I made a long report on that topic ( review section). I did not know that you were living outside of Canada. ------------- C'est la vie |
Posted By: Sean Trane
Date Posted: September 20 2006 at 11:11
Does that mean you don't like me anymore?
But it is true that the line with my location: Belgium lineunder my brilliant absence of avatar is gone. Where dit go???
I loved partying in Montreal, headed there at least every second weekend (looser opening bar hours, easier access to booze stores, better dope and the women.......... ). Often slept (that is when I did sleep) in Oultremont. ------------- let's just stay above the moral melee prefer the sink to the gutter keep our sand-castle virtues content to be a doer as well as a thinker, prefer lifting our pen rather than un-sheath our sword |
Posted By: Prog.Sylvie
Date Posted: September 20 2006 at 11:22
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Sean, I like you. I like the prog.Fest, but I don't have time to explain my views on the FMPM many times. I did it once. I have to work in between. ------------- C'est la vie |
Posted By: Sean Trane
Date Posted: September 21 2006 at 07:25
Actually the choices of a music student are dictated by mostly the amlount of risk you are willing to take in your career.
1- you can choose to have an employee job in an orchestra (unless you are sufficiently virtuoso and brilliant to be a star soloist) safely tucked in an "office job" and waiting for your paycheck falling at the end of the month.>> although often performing at evening time and the odd tours, the safety of the job is why women will choose it.
2- become a studio rat or songwriter for others >> this allows for a family life
3- the high-risk solo career (and usually not in classical music), but this shoots the family life if you are struggling or makes it non-existant if you are succesful (but if you are so succesful as Madonna or Dion , maternity breaks will not matter anymore) >> this choice will generally scare many women away from trying out. The sad thing is that most of those women performers do not write their own material , which hurts them in the revenue dept, since roughly 50% of rights go for the composer (music writer)and the author (lyric writer)
But to say that men would shun away from orchestras because it is "gay" is quite wrong. I know two orchestra players and this is worse than soap operas about who is shaggin who.
Usually work place where the women are the majority are the best place for men who want "action".
But at their own risks, of course.
Now where is that sewing manufacture adress again?
------------- let's just stay above the moral melee prefer the sink to the gutter keep our sand-castle virtues content to be a doer as well as a thinker, prefer lifting our pen rather than un-sheath our sword |
Posted By: Bob Greece
Date Posted: September 21 2006 at 07:43
Where did your avatar go as well? ------------- http://www.last.fm/user/BobGreece/?chartstyle=basicrt10"> 
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Posted By: Sean Trane
Date Posted: September 21 2006 at 07:50
never had one. To lazy to choose one.------------- let's just stay above the moral melee prefer the sink to the gutter keep our sand-castle virtues content to be a doer as well as a thinker, prefer lifting our pen rather than un-sheath our sword |
Posted By: Raff
Date Posted: September 21 2006 at 09:46
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Hugues, can I ask you a question? If so many women choose a profession on the basis of how much this will allow a family life, don't you think there may be another reason than unwillingness to take risks? It's true that women bear children and men don't, but usually to have a family it takes two.... And, to this day and age, even in civilised countries like Italy women can really get discriminated at work just because of their ability to have children. Hugues, let's face it, equal opportunities are still quite far from having been reached, even in our civilised Western world. And mine is the point of view of a woman who doesn't believe that women are better than men, or that the world would be a better place if women had more power than men. |
Posted By: Sean Trane
Date Posted: September 21 2006 at 12:15
Raf, I fully agree with your remarks also.
Generally the women prefer to play it safe, becauseof their reproductive capabilities. But again you speak of equality which is IMHO unatainable because of the differences >> this is why the laws are taking more and more into account the notion of equivalence >> hence that weight loading reference I made earlier. If we were really equal, then we should have women carrying the same loads as men, we should have fathers excercising the same rights as the mothers do from the birth of the kids, we should have male journalists allowed in women's showers at sporting events (the opposite is true) etc... I can name hundreds of cases where women get preferential treatment, but women do not see those as advantages because they seem natural and in order of things.
Of course a woman should get the same salary as a man does, but on construction sites as labourers? And yes , if I was a boss, I'd think twice about hiring a woman in age to have a family, because I know she will be away for months on end and I need the employee to be there and do the job. Simple arythmetics!!! >> not fair? I agree, but as a boss I hire to get the job done. Did you know that women in Europe are allowed 12 days a year (actually one day per month) to not come to work without doctor certificate for PMS reasons, no questions asked, but men are just allowed one day a year, and they'd better come with a good explanation. There are hundreds of companies not hiring men in manufacturing jobs because the whole presonnel is feminine. Why are women used as cashiers in supermarkets and not unloading the trucks? In the nuclear fields, women can only take a fifth of radiation that men can!!!
To allow women to grab a more equal shares of power/descision making jobs, there are positive discrimination policies (which I support for the principle) but this is causing many problems and actually can discriminate against the best candidate, regardless of gender. Political party list must have 33% of women in their lists, but there are many women who are just used as fillers only because of the lack or real candidates and this at the cost of some male candidates that would care for the politics.
To show you how progressive I can be as a male, I am willing to recognize motherhood as a job and actually retribute it (full salary). But as all jobs, I expect good results >> no kids becoming hoods hanging out in the streets then. If not well taken care of, the salary drops to half until the next review. OK, so this revolutionary idea is still to be refined, but I think that this should get rid of a lot of problems.
unprefect world of ours, uh? only trying to build a fair world for both sides
your LL ------------- let's just stay above the moral melee prefer the sink to the gutter keep our sand-castle virtues content to be a doer as well as a thinker, prefer lifting our pen rather than un-sheath our sword |
Posted By: WaywardSon
Date Posted: September 21 2006 at 12:34
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There are a lot of women in Brazil who love prog. Thinking back to the shows I saw of Rush and Roger Waters, there must have been 30 to 35% women in the audience.
There also seems to be a higher amount of women who like metal/hard rock in South America. Going to a Deep Purple or Iron Maiden show, one will see lots of women.
I know in Britain it is more male dominated . It´s hard to pinpoint what the reason is.
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Posted By: chessman
Date Posted: September 21 2006 at 16:49
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It is quite difficult to give an all-encompassing answer to this one.
Of course, it shouldn't matter what sex, age, colour or creed a person is, there is no official reason why one person would like prog and another would not.
Having said that, I have to say my wife doesn't like much prog. When I have played any with her in the room, eg: Yes or some early Genesis, she has been known to say 'what a noise!'.
I have had the same experience with other women over the years, and I have to conclude that, generally, (happily there are exceptions) the majority of women prefer something 'with a good beat to dance to - or - with a nice singalong tune - or - with nice lyrics about love and devotion'.
Again, in general, the majority of women will not care who the musicians are or how well they play, they will just want the songs to 'sound nice'.
This is not meant in any way as a sexist comment, and as I said, it is nice to see the exceptions, but the great majority of women in my age group (I am 47) will usually say 'I have always loved Mowtown, and these days I like the boy bands such as Westlife'.
I don't think there is a real reason behind it, other than maybe they have just followed their friends' tastes, or their older sisters' habits when they were younger.
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Posted By: Fritha
Date Posted: September 21 2006 at 17:24
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Hmm, I think it's at least partly a question of women prefering the music they like to be somehow related to their lives or particular situations in life. Men are happier to just view music as an objective entity, something to marvel at for its own sake (the playing, the song-structures you name it) while women tend to view it more clearly as an outlet for certain emotions (being in love, being joyful, being sad, having relationship problems...or just problems in life in general) It seems to me that the majority of women just have a more intuitive attitude to music and as a result they don't feel a need to dissect it, analyse it and write about it on message boards -you know, the fun part besides actually listening to it
Just some thoughts from a woman, who not so long ago had more or less the kind of attitude towards music as the one described above, but then saw the light and took a leap to the other side...
Of course, the initial question in this thread was: why DO women like prog? My answer would be: probably for the same reason as men do... for the purely musical aspects of it. ------------- I was made to love magic |
Posted By: micky
Date Posted: September 21 2006 at 19:57
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hmmm great thread Raffaella... would love to add something but
being neither a woman or knowing but one woman who even likes prog....
I really couldn't answer the question.
We all know women who love to rock... and men who love 'simplistic'
love ballads... I call them one thing.... 'special' hahahha
------------- The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip |
Posted By: tardis
Date Posted: September 21 2006 at 20:00
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Why not?
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Posted By: avestin
Date Posted: September 21 2006 at 20:04
I wouldn't know...
My wife has always been into Rock, classic rock and progressive rock as well. I also got her into metal and she even got accustomed to death growls...
She can't stand the Celine Dion type of music (much like me), but she does have a strange affection for disco music of the 80's
. Anyway, to ask why she loves it amounts to the same thing as asking ME why I love it.
Becuase it is excellent music, which gives both of us pleasure listening to. Shallow, but that's it.
I shall ask her when we will rejoin in 2 weeks, what does she think.
------------- http://hangingsounds.blogspot.com/" rel="nofollow - Hanging Sounds http://www.progarchives.com/ProgRockShopping.asp" rel="nofollow - PA Index of prog music vendors |
Posted By: micky
Date Posted: September 21 2006 at 20:16
a keeper you have there Assaf....  Disco rules!... all know..only the brave admit....------------- The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip |
Posted By: Leningrad
Date Posted: September 21 2006 at 20:17
Disco is the most-underrated genre of all time.
Too bad it rules.
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