Dream Theater vs Tales From Topographic Oceans
Printed From: Progarchives.com
Category: Progressive Music Lounges
Forum Name: Prog Polls
Forum Description: Create polls on topics related to progressive music
URL: http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=26903
Printed Date: November 26 2024 at 09:48 Software Version: Web Wiz Forums 11.01 - http://www.webwizforums.com
Topic: Dream Theater vs Tales From Topographic Oceans
Posted By: Sacred 22
Subject: Dream Theater vs Tales From Topographic Oceans
Date Posted: August 03 2006 at 23:38
In an effort to keep the Dream Theater poles more interesting. I have decided to ask this of you. Is Dream Theater the ultimate, or do you rather prefer the more eclectic Tales From Topographic Oceans. I really wanna know.
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Replies:
Posted By: Barla
Date Posted: August 03 2006 at 23:40
Oh, another DT poll ........ I won't vote !!
------------- http://www.last.fm/user/Barla/?chartstyle=LastfmMyspace">
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Posted By: AtLossForWords
Date Posted: August 03 2006 at 23:50
Oh god. I hope Rafaella kicks you for this one!
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"Mastodon sucks giant monkey balls."
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Posted By: memowakeman
Date Posted: August 03 2006 at 23:57
nice effort
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Follow me on twitter @memowakeman
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Posted By: Sacred 22
Date Posted: August 03 2006 at 23:58
AtLossForWords wrote:
Oh god. I hope Rafaella kicks you for this one! |
This will be good.
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Posted By: OpethGuitarist
Date Posted: August 04 2006 at 01:05
Dream Theater easily wins
Check out my review on Tales.
------------- back from the dead, i will begin posting reviews again and musing through the forums
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Posted By: Ricochet
Date Posted: August 04 2006 at 01:13
Tales, even with all its flaws and its incomprehensible problems.
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Posted By: Man With Hat
Date Posted: August 04 2006 at 01:20
ELP.
------------- Dig me...But don't...Bury me I'm running still, I shall until, one day, I hope that I'll arrive Warning: Listening to jazz excessively can cause a laxative effect.
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Posted By: Ricochet
Date Posted: August 04 2006 at 01:26
Man With Hat wrote:
ELP. |
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Posted By: Bern
Date Posted: August 04 2006 at 01:26
Happy birthday to Klaus Schulze
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RIP in bossa nova heaven.
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Posted By: Logan
Date Posted: August 04 2006 at 01:37
I considered making a Theatre vs. Dream Theater vs. Hamster Theatre vs. Soniq Theater
poll earlier today (well, really just Dream Theater vs. Hamster Theatre
since otherwise it would be a little too theatrical), but I'm now
particularly glad I opted for discretion...
Anyway, I'm not a big fan of either so I might as well just flip a coin... It's Tales.
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Posted By: Raff
Date Posted: August 04 2006 at 02:04
AtLossForWords wrote:
Oh god. I hope Rafaella kicks you for this one! |
No, the big TftO fan is Micky here.... Just wait for him to be back on the forum tonight, and he'll show you something! I'm a mere amateur in comparison...
BTW, obviously it's TftO for me... but you already knew that, didn't you?
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Posted By: MattiR
Date Posted: August 04 2006 at 03:47
Posted By: Australian
Date Posted: August 04 2006 at 03:50
Tales. But how can a Band be compared with a single album?
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Posted By: Abstrakt
Date Posted: August 04 2006 at 03:52
Now You're being Silly!
Tales from topographic oceans!
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Posted By: Sacred 22
Date Posted: August 04 2006 at 05:14
Australian wrote:
Tales. But how can a Band be compared with a single album? |
Here at Prog Archives anything is possible and that means even comparing creative metal with creative genius. Of course that being Tales. Hey, and I notice you picked Tales.
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Posted By: Sacred 22
Date Posted: August 04 2006 at 05:18
OpethGuitarist wrote:
Dream Theater easily wins
Check out my review on Tales.
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Hey, I notice you gave Tales a "1" rating but you gave Close to the Edge a "5" rating.
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Posted By: Norbert
Date Posted: August 04 2006 at 07:31
Tales by far, although this is not a very useful poll.
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Posted By: WaywardSon
Date Posted: August 04 2006 at 09:28
To hell with DT!
(I like them but these polls are getting pretty ridiculous now)
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Posted By: The Hemulen
Date Posted: August 04 2006 at 09:33
Soo... we're pitting whole bands against single albums now, are we?
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Posted By: Kleynan
Date Posted: August 04 2006 at 14:33
How can you compare Dream Theater to one of the best albums of all time. This is a stupid poll, but I voted for Tales of course. DT will never achive what Yes achived with TFTO.
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You've just had a heavy session of electroshock therapy, and you're more relaxed than you've been in weeks.
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Posted By: richardh
Date Posted: August 04 2006 at 16:00
So this poll result so far indicates that the worst album Yes produced in the period 1971-1977 beats anything Dream Theater have ever done.
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Posted By: AtLossForWords
Date Posted: August 04 2006 at 16:02
No this proves that more people hate Dream Theater than Yes.
Personally I love Tales, and it is one of my top three or four Yes albums.
-------------
"Mastodon sucks giant monkey balls."
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Posted By: Melomaniac
Date Posted: August 04 2006 at 17:20
AtLossForWords wrote:
Oh god. I hope Rafaella kicks you for this one! |
Can't wait to see that !
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Posted By: johnobvious
Date Posted: August 04 2006 at 19:46
I vote that the administrators of PA open up a whole new Lounge that is only about Dream Theater. Heaven knows it won't lack for action.
Next up: Dream Theater vs. What I had for breakfast!
That Panera cinammon crunch bagel was mighty tasty, but it just can't stand up to Metropolis Pt 1. I vote DT! Better luck next time Mr. Bagel and bring your "A" game next time. Because at the end of the day, your deliciousness has a long way to go to unseat the mighty Dream Theater.
------------- Biggles was in rehab last Saturday
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Posted By: micky
Date Posted: August 04 2006 at 20:04
Sacred 22 wrote:
In
an effort to keep the Dream Theater poles more interesting. I have
decided to ask this of you. Is Dream Theater the ultimate, or do you
rather prefer the more eclectic Tales From Topographic Oceans. I really
wanna know. |
hahahha... you are evil and will burn in hell....
to match an album with the depth and beauty of TFTO with the
works of a group that those two adjectives (amoung others) would NEVER be used to describe.. defies all that is holy and good within man.
------------- The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip
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Posted By: Padraic
Date Posted: August 04 2006 at 20:19
Sorry DT, but you crumble in the face of this definitive prog masterpiece.
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Posted By: micky
Date Posted: August 04 2006 at 21:11
NaturalScience wrote:
Sorry DT, but you crumble in the face of this definitive prog masterpiece.
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more like annihilated hahah
------------- The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip
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Posted By: Sacred 22
Date Posted: August 04 2006 at 21:19
micky wrote:
Sacred 22 wrote:
In an effort to keep the Dream Theater poles more interesting. I have decided to ask this of you. Is Dream Theater the ultimate, or do you rather prefer the more eclectic Tales From Topographic Oceans. I really wanna know. |
hahahha... you are evil and will burn in hell....
I am not a religous man but I do wonder how many hard core DT, as you call them "fanboys" voted for Tales.
to match an album with the depth and beauty of TFTO with the works of a group that those two adjectives (amoung others) would NEVER be used to describe.. defies all that is holy and good within man.
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I could not agree more, however, it's always nice to test the water before jumping in. Especially with all those hungry shark like DT fans swimming about.
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Posted By: Open-Mind
Date Posted: August 04 2006 at 21:21
DT
------------- "I'm on a roll, I'm on a roll this time, I feel my luck could change.. "
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Posted By: Sacred 22
Date Posted: August 04 2006 at 21:21
Kleynan wrote:
How can you compare Dream Theater to one of the best albums of all time. This is a stupid poll, but I voted for Tales of course. DT will never achive what Yes achived with TFTO. |
Stupid only if you vote for Dream Theater in this particualr pole.
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Posted By: AtLossForWords
Date Posted: August 04 2006 at 22:27
Good thing I didn't vote.
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"Mastodon sucks giant monkey balls."
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Posted By: Sacred 22
Date Posted: August 04 2006 at 23:11
AtLossForWords wrote:
Good thing I didn't vote. |
There you go, playing it safe again, but the lack of a vote does seem a bit suspicious to me.
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Posted By: bhikkhu
Date Posted: August 04 2006 at 23:51
Well, if you take the entirety of DT's work and compress it to one album, then say that Yes only recorded this one piece ...
... Ohhh, I can't go through with it.
TfTO of course.
------------- a.k.a. H.T.
http://riekels.wordpress.com" rel="nofollow - http://riekels.wordpress.com
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Posted By: Soul Dreamer
Date Posted: August 04 2006 at 23:59
Well...First of all...I voted for TFTO as a long time favourite of me.
But... I don't understand the poll results: TFTO 23 DT 10
If you look into the charts DT has 3 studio albums with the first 100 (SFaM at 19, with an average of 4.23 and 413 votes, I&W at 39, average 4.20 with 303 votes etc).
Yes - TFTO is 130 with an average of 3.97 and 255 votes.
Something is not matching here..........
------------- To be the one who seeks so I may find .. (Metallica)
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Posted By: OpethGuitarist
Date Posted: August 05 2006 at 03:21
Sacred 22 wrote:
OpethGuitarist wrote:
Dream Theater easily wins
Check out my review on Tales.
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Hey, I notice you gave Tales a "1" rating but you gave Close to the Edge a "5" rating. |
Thats because CTTE is good and Tales is horrible.
Fragile and Relayer are excellent as well, and I have mixed feelings on The Yes album.
------------- back from the dead, i will begin posting reviews again and musing through the forums
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Posted By: OpethGuitarist
Date Posted: August 05 2006 at 03:23
Also, please tell me that any of you enjoy the guitar tone found on Tales.
It is downright atrocious, not to mention that Howe's overall playing was at an all time low at the time it was produced.
------------- back from the dead, i will begin posting reviews again and musing through the forums
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Posted By: micky
Date Posted: August 05 2006 at 07:00
hahah... if you gave... TFTO one star.... you have no business
reviewing albums.... look forward to my forthcoming DT review for the
proper way to review an album you don't like....
------------- The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip
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Posted By: TheLamb
Date Posted: August 05 2006 at 09:11
I like Focus
So I decided to vote for Focus.
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Posted By: Kleynan
Date Posted: August 05 2006 at 09:28
OpethGuitarist wrote:
Also, please tell me that any of you enjoy the guitar tone found on Tales.
It is downright atrocious, not to mention that Howe's overall playing was at an all time low at the time it was produced.
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Quite opposite, my friend! TFTO contains Howe's best guitar work, only matched with Relayer of course.
-------------
You've just had a heavy session of electroshock therapy, and you're more relaxed than you've been in weeks.
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Posted By: Evans
Date Posted: August 05 2006 at 09:36
TheLamb wrote:
I like Focus
So I decided to vote for Focus. | So, then what did you do?
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Posted By: TheLamb
Date Posted: August 05 2006 at 10:50
Evans wrote:
TheLamb wrote:
I like Focus
So I decided to vote for Focus. | So, then what did you do?
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Uhm... Im not sure... I just figured we were resorting to polls that made no point whatsoever so.. There's no reason to trying to find any common-sense in my reply... Just going with the flow of posting meaningless things for no reason...
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Posted By: Sacred 22
Date Posted: August 05 2006 at 12:17
OpethGuitarist wrote:
Also, please tell me that any of you enjoy the guitar tone found on Tales.
It is downright atrocious, not to mention that Howe's overall playing was at an all time low at the time it was produced.
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You have exposed yourself as a fraud my friend.
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Posted By: TheLamb
Date Posted: August 05 2006 at 13:03
I think Howe is great on Tales.
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Posted By: Angeldust
Date Posted: August 05 2006 at 13:06
It's still a mystery to me how is it possible to compare a band with a single album..!
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Posted By: Kleynan
Date Posted: August 05 2006 at 13:28
As I think of it. It's not strange to compare them. The achivement of TFTO is huge! As huge or bigger than DT all together?
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You've just had a heavy session of electroshock therapy, and you're more relaxed than you've been in weeks.
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Posted By: AtLossForWords
Date Posted: August 05 2006 at 16:10
Posted By: The Green Tank
Date Posted: August 05 2006 at 17:25
Tales, for sure. Probably beats all of Dream Theater's totaly dicography, not that it's BAD!
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Posted By: Trickster F.
Date Posted: August 05 2006 at 17:28
lockbandelete
------------- sig
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Posted By: micky
Date Posted: August 05 2006 at 17:54
as always the results fall short of the hype.. especially since my
reviewing skills are not as good as I would like. I'm fair but
not as good as I'd like.. especally compared to reviewers I admire like
Ghost Rider and CertIfied. I haven't picked a style I like yet. I
have 20 odd reviews with about as many different styles in reviewing
them. I tried to just briefly give a synopsis, and a vibe for the
'Oxygene' and 'Voyage 34' and then went the track by track route for De
De Lind's 'Io Non So Da Dove Vengo e Non So Dove Mai Andrò, Uomo
e' il Nome Che Mi han Dato'. I'm not sure which I prefer yet..
don't get your hopes up for anything earthshattering
------------- The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip
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Posted By: OpethGuitarist
Date Posted: August 05 2006 at 18:09
The fact that you people like Howe's playing on that album make me wonder how many of you are musicians.
Either way, the band was worse without Bruford, not that White is bad,
but Bruford was a better fit. I don't fit in with a lot of the other
"complainers" of that album, in the sense that I don't mind Anderson's
lyrics/vox becuase he's always been an odd ball. I'm not really a
lyrics person to begin with.
The album I compare to a painter splashing colors around on a canvas.
It might look cool but it is not very coherent and their is a lack of
transition. This combined with what I feel is one of the worst guitar
tone's in the history of music, (it is so thin, almost sounds like he's
flat on every note) is what gets me. But, to each his own, I don't have
a problem being bashed.
And I am looking forward to this DT review, so I can lose the title of
"most-hated" DT reviewer as I was aptly given in the abuse section.
------------- back from the dead, i will begin posting reviews again and musing through the forums
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Posted By: Sacred 22
Date Posted: August 05 2006 at 18:26
OpethGuitarist wrote:
The fact that you people like Howe's playing on that album make me wonder how many of you are musicians.
Howe himself said that much of his best playing was on Tales. He should know and aside from that, he is one of the most creative guitar players that has ever lived.
Either way, the band was worse without Bruford, not that White is bad, but Bruford was a better fit. I don't fit in with a lot of the other "complainers" of that album, in the sense that I don't mind Anderson's lyrics/vox becuase he's always been an odd ball. I'm not really a lyrics person to begin with.
Again subjective
The album I compare to a painter splashing colors around on a canvas. It might look cool but it is not very coherent and their is a lack of transition. This combined with what I feel is one of the worst guitar tone's in the history of music, (it is so thin, almost sounds like he's flat on every note) is what gets me. But, to each his own, I don't have a problem being bashed.
you have to listen to it many many many times to get it
And I am looking forward to this DT review, so I can lose the title of "most-hated" DT reviewer as I was aptly given in the abuse section.
I think Micky will give a fair representation of the work.
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Posted By: Tony R
Date Posted: August 05 2006 at 19:30
Space reserved for Micky to right some rubbish.
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Posted By: micky
Date Posted: August 05 2006 at 19:35
OpethGuitarist wrote:
The fact that you people like Howe's playing on that album make me wonder how many of you are musicians.
oh jesus christ not the 'I'm a musician so my
opinion is better than yours' logic. Look at my review of the
album and see why that kind of logic (and your rating of it) stinks
like sh*t, looks like sh*t, and tastes (theoretically of course )
like sh*t. Prog is art... you do not have to be an artist to appreciate
art. A quality review would have noted whether you liked it
or not, THEN noted that the album is far more ambitious, grand in
scale, complex, and of course famous than most albums in prog. Thus
rated it accordingly. Find me 10 albums in ALL of prog that
represent what prog is all about more than that album and I'll have
YOUR frickin children ahhahah. It's an essential 5 star album by
any criteria short of whether Joe Six-Pack reviewer likes it or
not. Love an album, hate an album... who really cares.
Taste is personal and if you go into a review with only that in
mind.... only you and your circle of pals are going to care about the
10 to 15 minutes that you just wasted. People want to know about
an album and where it fits in the grand scheme of things prog. Should
they buy it? Whether you like it or not isn't going to change that. Oh
yeah.. I've been a musician for 20+ years....and you'd never know
it.. because it doesn't matter a damn bit. Nothing personal by
the way.... just venting hahahha
Either way, the band was worse without Bruford, not that White is bad,
but Bruford was a better fit. I don't fit in with a lot of the other
"complainers" of that album, in the sense that I don't mind Anderson's
lyrics/vox becuase he's always been an odd ball. I'm not really a
lyrics person to begin with.
agreed that with Bruford Yes was at another level
but that's immaterial to the review... White's work on The
Ancient though... more adventurous than anything Bruford did with Yes..
so I don't buy no Bruford ..crappy album.
The album I compare to a painter splashing colors around on a canvas.
It might look cool but it is not very coherent and their is a lack of
transition. This combined with what I feel is one of the worst guitar
tone's in the history of music, (it is so thin, almost sounds like he's
flat on every note) is what gets me. But, to each his own, I don't have
a problem being bashed.
EXACTLY the point I made in my review....
what you fail to see is that art hits all of us differently..what is
sh*t to you.. is the thing of beauty to others... a point made in my
review. Where you are being presumptuous is assuming.. due to
your vaunted musical skills ... that your interpetation is the right..
or only way. Prog is supposed to challenge the listener.. when
you challenge a listener.. and few albums do that as this one does..
.people get lost.. as you did it appears. No shame in that.. but
recognize the highest expression of prog ...while it's biting you on
the ass....
And I am looking forward to this DT review, so I can lose the title of
"most-hated" DT reviewer as I was aptly given in the abuse section.
pfff... if you don't know my feelings about
DT by now.. you're either new.. or put off by me to the point where you
do give a flip about what I'm writing hahhaha
As I posted in the collab section (spoiler warning)... I will be giving
it 2 stars.... for me personally (there were small parts I liked)
.... and 5 stars (for the site and the official rating I would award
the album) because whether I like it or not... it's a masterpiece and
an essential album of prog-metal.
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------------- The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip
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Posted By: Tony R
Date Posted: August 05 2006 at 19:36
^
Tony R wrote:
Space reserved for Micky to right some rubbish.
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He missed,but I was right...
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Posted By: micky
Date Posted: August 05 2006 at 19:54
hahhaha... you know me too well... which is scary... sorry about
the language... emoticons for the pounding my computer desk
suffered in the writing of that...
------------- The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip
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Posted By: OpethGuitarist
Date Posted: August 05 2006 at 20:02
@micky
If I was going to rate things by what is essential because it was prog
and what isnt essential based on that then reviewing would be
completely pointless. For example, my DSOTM review. Everyone has heard
it, so that means it should automatically be rated 5 stars? No. It
doesn't. It's dumb because that would mean I might have 3 and 2 star
albums I like more than 5 star albums. That's not really fair to me or
to people reading my reviews. Reviews are always going to be
subjective, no matter how objective you attempt to make them. Reviews,
like music, are not a science.
Example. Everyone likes the movie Gladiator. Or pretty much everyone.
Let's suppose I don't like it, and I have reasons why other than, "the
film is bad". Should I just go tell my friends to see it because
everyone else likes it? No. That's what happens in the pop and
mainstream world. You tell people to listen to things because everyone
else has and everyone else likes it therefore you should like it too
and listen to it.
Also, I never accused any specific person of being or not being a
musician, it was a general statement not directed at anyone, it was
also more or less a sarcastic comment, maybe I should write sarcasm in
big bold letters next time.
As to you wanting albums with scope? There are plenty of bands that
release long "journey-like" songs. I'm not going to be able to find 10
prog albums because you have already limited yourself to that one
album, regardless of what I have already found or might find in the
future. You should rate the DT album with how you feel it is as an
album, and not rate it because all the prog-metal fanboys like it. I
rate with my heart, not with what people tell me I should rate
something.
@sacred
You say I am subjective, yet your first response is entirely subjective
calling him one of the most creative guitarists that ever lived. I
could name 100 guitarists I think are more creative than him, and guess
what, that's subjective too. So your subjectivity is ok and mine is
not?
As for the album? I've listened to it about 10 times over the course of
2/3 years. It's not like I just listened to it yesterday. Maybe "I just
don't get it" as some of you say, and then again, maybe you "get it too
much". No one can ever really prove either. Anyway, I am much happier
listening to CTTE, Fragile, and Relayer, which I consider Yes's best
works.
------------- back from the dead, i will begin posting reviews again and musing through the forums
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Posted By: micky
Date Posted: August 05 2006 at 20:25
OpethGuitarist wrote:
@micky
If I was going to rate things by what is essential because it was prog
and what isnt essential based on that then reviewing would be
completely pointless. For example, my DSOTM review. Everyone has heard
it, so that means it should automatically be rated 5 stars? No. It
doesn't. It's dumb because that would mean I might have 3 and 2 star
albums I like more than 5 star albums. That's not really fair to me or
to people reading my reviews. Reviews are always going to be
subjective, no matter how objective you attempt to make them. Reviews,
like music, are not a science.
valid points.... and reasonable stated..
so....blue font hahaha.... Let's take your DSOTM album for example...
there is not consensus that DSOTM is an essential prog album.. I do not
think so and others do not as well. It was commerically sucessful
yeah... it had a concept that was not particularly earth shattering and
musically.. well that was never Floyd's strong suit. One good
guitarist and 3 average musicians.. the sum was truly greater than the
parts but I digress.. what is essential IS open for
question. Of course you would talk about whether an album hits
you or not... but there are only a handful of album that I think are
ESSENTIAL without question. DSOTM is not one.. and neither is
TFTO... too many people dislike it. Lord knows I got on my high
horse with you.... like you really give a flip about me telling you how
to review hahahha ...however..
consider my post not directly totally at you but an open invite to
consider shifting the emphasis of reviews from petty likes and dislikes
(where I'll stand by me saying that FEW TO NONE care if you liked it or
not) to where the album fits within prog. Was it
inventive.. original.. is it important (even though I may not have
liked it) for people to hear. I think that would make reviews
much more effective than the vanity display that they are now for the
most part. Might be a pipe dream... but hey... why not broach the
subject....
Example. Everyone likes the movie Gladiator. Or pretty much everyone.
Let's suppose I don't like it, and I have reasons why other than, "the
film is bad". Should I just go tell my friends to see it because
everyone else likes it? No. That's what happens in the pop and
mainstream world. You tell people to listen to things because everyone
else has and everyone else likes it therefore you should like it too
and listen to it.
Also, I never accused any specific person of being or not being a
musician, it was a general statement not directed at anyone, it was
also more or less a sarcastic comment, maybe I should write sarcasm in
big bold letters next time.
hahaha just do what I do... cultivate a reputation for scarcasm and smartassery
As to you wanting albums with scope? There are plenty of bands that
release long "journey-like" songs. I'm not going to be able to find 10
prog albums because you have already limited yourself to that one
album, regardless of what I have already found or might find in the
future. You should rate the DT album with how you feel it is as an
album, and not rate it because all the prog-metal fanboys like it. I
rate with my heart, not with what people tell me I should rate
something.
my review will in part be an insight into an
older proggers thoughts about 'new prog' and why I dislike it so.
It is far removed from what prog was all about... that is the angle of
my review. I think my system of giving two ratings works well....
if anyone actually did care what I though of an album personally.. it's
out there... but for the site at large... it is and should be
different. I use the example of the Live Magma album from
Bruxelles 1971 that I reviewed. LOVED it... however to
award any more than 2 stars for an album that NO ONE outside of a Magma
fan would buy or maybe even like is assinine. So I give split
ratings... works well for me.. and may be...presumptuous hahahha of me too say.. .but would like to see others adopt it.
anyway... like I said ...nothing personal.... just using your
post as a framework to pound out some things I feel quite strongly
about...
@sacred
You say I am subjective, yet your first response is entirely subjective
calling him one of the most creative guitarists that ever lived. I
could name 100 guitarists I think are more creative than him, and guess
what, that's subjective too. So your subjectivity is ok and mine is
not?
As for the album? I've listened to it about 10 times over the course of
2/3 years. It's not like I just listened to it yesterday. Maybe "I just
don't get it" as some of you say, and then again, maybe you "get it too
much". No one can ever really prove either. Anyway, I am much happier
listening to CTTE, Fragile, and Relayer, which I consider Yes's best
works.
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------------- The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip
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Posted By: OpethGuitarist
Date Posted: August 05 2006 at 21:02
No biggie, all love here.
I'm pretty open minded actually, I just typically have close-minded
reviews, becuase well, I'm stating my opinions on something and it's
therefore going to be close-minded, even though in reality I am open to
many forms of expression, if that makes any damn sense.
Now awaiting sacred's response as to how his subjectivity is better than mine.
Tick tock.
------------- back from the dead, i will begin posting reviews again and musing through the forums
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Posted By: Sacred 22
Date Posted: August 05 2006 at 22:46
OpethGuitarist wrote:
No biggie, all love here.
I'm pretty open minded actually, I just typically have close-minded reviews, becuase well, I'm stating my opinions on something and it's therefore going to be close-minded, even though in reality I am open to many forms of expression, if that makes any damn sense.
Now awaiting sacred's response as to how his subjectivity is better than mine.
Tick tock.
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We are all entitled to our subjectivity. That being said, I do think that Yes were forced to take a different direction with the addition of Alan White to the band and some feel that comprimises were made as a result. I am one of those, but his work on Tales is not bad really and his work on Relayer stands out as well.
As far as Steve Howe goes. He basically took the band from nowhere to stardom when he showed up on the third album. I used to be in the music business and I have met many musicians especially guitar players. Not one of them thinks Howe is anything less than masterful.
I do know one guy who likes DT and has even learned to Shred. Hey, he is pretty good. He will say, "Howe can't shred like me." I'll say, "can you write like Howe." We get together and all he wants to hear is music with shredders. I now realize he has trouble appreciating music for music's sake even though he calls himself a musician and can play a mean guitar.
Reviews that lean too heavily in the subjective dept. tend to be misleading. That's why I have trouble with your rating of Close to the Edge and Topographic Oceans. Both works are considered master works by any description and to give Tales one star and CttE five is very misleading and as a result I would have trouble using your review as a guide line unless I had the same subjective tastes as you. This could be useful for some but I think more care should be excercised in how ratings are dished out. You may not like Barry Bonds, but to say he a lousy baseball player is just plain wrong if you get my drift.
I do thank you for not being afraid to speak your mind.
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Posted By: OpethGuitarist
Date Posted: August 05 2006 at 23:08
Barry Bonds is a bad example IMO, but I understand what you are saying anyways and won't get into it.
However, not everyone equivilates Steve Howe to guitar genius, in fact,
very few do as not many people know his name. Most people understand
the name Jimmy Page and Jimi Hendrix, not Steve Howe, if you get my
drift.
I know exactly what you are talking about about the kid who plays a
mean guitar, cause that was me about 3 years ago. I'm sure I'll learn
more and think I am an idiot again 5 years from now, who knows, I might
be even stronger about certain aspects of my opinions.
I didn't write much for CTTE because well, it has about 500 reviews,
mine is a small part of the picture. For an album by a band like 65
days of static I was more careful about my review becuase it was the
2nd one for the band, and I realized it would have a bigger impact than
a review for CTTE. However, in the future, I will probably be ensuring
that my reviews have more substance to them, as I was approached
earlier about my DT review, basically because I didn't give the album 5
stars.
------------- back from the dead, i will begin posting reviews again and musing through the forums
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Posted By: Sacred 22
Date Posted: August 06 2006 at 00:50
OpethGuitarist wrote:
However, not everyone equivilates Steve Howe to guitar genius, in fact, very few do as not many people know his name. Most people understand the name Jimmy Page and Jimi Hendrix, not Steve Howe, if you get my drift.
I like Howe's style and that is subjective but he was voted "best" guitarist five times in a row by Guitar Magazine and he is also the only "Rock" guitarist to be voted into the guitar gallery of greats.
Anyway, these forums are a good place to sound opinions and I enjoy that. |
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Posted By: OpethGuitarist
Date Posted: August 06 2006 at 01:11
Those guitar magazines are usually horrible and have no idea what they are rating on.
If you were to take a serious look into the guitar world, half the
people they list wouldn't be in those magazines and you'd have a
diverse display of guitarists.
Ill take Bumblefoot as an example of a criminally underrated guitarist
who will never get his praise because he isn't in a famous band.
------------- back from the dead, i will begin posting reviews again and musing through the forums
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Posted By: Sacred 22
Date Posted: August 06 2006 at 18:11
OpethGuitarist wrote:
Those guitar magazines are usually horrible and have no idea what they are rating on.
If you were to take a serious look into the guitar world, half the people they list wouldn't be in those magazines and you'd have a diverse display of guitarists.
Ill take Bumblefoot as an example of a criminally underrated guitarist who will never get his praise because he isn't in a famous band.
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We can agree to disagree and of course there are undiscovered musicians by the boat load everywhere. Jon Anderson once said that there are some really good bands and even some better than we are (Yes) that will never see the light of day.
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Posted By: Raff
Date Posted: August 07 2006 at 16:29
micky wrote:
as always the results fall short of the hype.. especially since my
reviewing skills are not as good as I would like. I'm fair but
not as good as I'd like.. especally compared to reviewers I admire like
Ghost Rider and CertIfied. I haven't picked a style I like yet. I
have 20 odd reviews with about as many different styles in reviewing
them. I tried to just briefly give a synopsis, and a vibe for the
'Oxygene' and 'Voyage 34' and then went the track by track route for De
De Lind's 'Io Non So Da Dove Vengo e Non So Dove Mai Andrò, Uomo
e' il Nome Che Mi han Dato'. I'm not sure which I prefer yet..
don't get your hopes up for anything earthshattering
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*blushes at the compliment towards her reviewing skills (which are, of course, exceptional as everybody else knows)*
BTW, what was the thread about? DT again? Ah, can't say I missed that while stranded in the mountains above Bergamo....
DT fans, beware: I'm back with a vengeance, and I'm going to review a) Once in a LIvetime ; b) Train of Thought; c) A Change of Seasons....
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Posted By: micky
Date Posted: August 07 2006 at 20:45
Ghost Rider wrote:
micky wrote:
as always the results fall short of the hype.. especially since my
reviewing skills are not as good as I would like. I'm fair but
not as good as I'd like.. especally compared to reviewers I admire like
Ghost Rider and CertIfied. I haven't picked a style I like yet. I
have 20 odd reviews with about as many different styles in reviewing
them. I tried to just briefly give a synopsis, and a vibe for the
'Oxygene' and 'Voyage 34' and then went the track by track route for De
De Lind's 'Io Non So Da Dove Vengo e Non So Dove Mai Andrò, Uomo
e' il Nome Che Mi han Dato'. I'm not sure which I prefer yet..
don't get your hopes up for anything earthshattering
|
*blushes at the compliment towards her reviewing skills (which are, of course, exceptional as everybody else knows)*
BTW, what was the thread about? DT again? Ah, can't say I missed that while stranded in the mountains above Bergamo....
DT fans, beware: I'm back with a vengeance, and I'm going to review a) Once in a LIvetime ; b) Train of Thought; c) A Change of Seasons....
|
hahahha you go girl... well I would hope that you missed all of
us while playing ski bunny and running with the European jet-set
hahahhaha
Glad to have you back partner
------------- The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip
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Posted By: Raff
Date Posted: August 08 2006 at 15:13
The threatened ToT review is online... Enjoy it to the fullest, my dear DT fans! Next in line - the dreaded "Once in a Livetime"...
*bash, bash, bash*
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Posted By: billbuckner
Date Posted: August 08 2006 at 16:07
When are you doing Six Degrees?
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Posted By: Raff
Date Posted: August 08 2006 at 16:10
When I buy it, which is highly unlikely for the time being... I'm already spending oodles of money on records, but at least I listen to them. With DT, I have to force myself to listen to them, and I only manage to get to the end with great effort.
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Posted By: Trickster F.
Date Posted: August 08 2006 at 16:15
Ghost Rider wrote:
When I buy it, which is highly unlikely for the time being... I'm already spending oodles of money on records, but at least I listen to them. With DT, I have to force myself to listen to them, and I only manage to get to the end with great effort. |
I suggest not to bother wasting money for music you don't expect yourself to enjoy.
-- Ivan
------------- sig
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Posted By: xtopher
Date Posted: August 08 2006 at 18:47
Dream Theater reviews by micky annd Ghost Rider: a "fair and balanced" look on DT. Who can "outfox" the other?!?
-------------
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Posted By: micky
Date Posted: August 08 2006 at 18:49
xtopher wrote:
Dream Theater reviews by micky annd Ghost Rider: a "fair and balanced" look on DT. Who can "outfox" the other?!?
|
hmm.... I don't like your attitude boy....
------------- The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip
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Posted By: micky
Date Posted: August 08 2006 at 18:50
ivansfr0st wrote:
Ghost Rider wrote:
When I buy it, which is highly
unlikely for the time being... I'm already spending oodles of money on
records, but at least I listen to them. With DT, I have to force myself
to listen to them, and I only manage to get to the end with great
effort. |
I suggest not to bother wasting money for music you don't expect yourself to enjoy.
-- Ivan |
trust me... I won't make that mistake again hahahha..
------------- The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip
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Posted By: Philéas
Date Posted: August 08 2006 at 18:58
TfTO wins this easily, considering all the mediocre stuff DT has turned
out. However, if it would have been TfTO vs. Images and Words only, I would
have voted for the latter.
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Posted By: xtopher
Date Posted: August 08 2006 at 19:00
micky wrote:
xtopher wrote:
Dream Theater reviews by micky annd Ghost Rider: a "fair and balanced" look on DT. Who can "outfox" the other?!?
|
hmm.... I don't like your attitude boy....
|
I couldn't help but notice the similarities.
-------------
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Posted By: micky
Date Posted: August 08 2006 at 19:05
xtopher wrote:
micky wrote:
xtopher wrote:
Dream Theater reviews by micky annd Ghost Rider: a "fair and balanced" look on DT. Who can "outfox" the other?!?
|
hmm.... I don't like your attitude boy....
|
I couldn't help but notice the similarities.
|
between Raffaella and I? hahha it's like we are
siblings seperated after birth... though I attribute her love of Rush
to being a slightly off center euro-type hahahaha
------------- The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip
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Posted By: xtopher
Date Posted: August 08 2006 at 19:13
micky wrote:
xtopher wrote:
micky wrote:
xtopher wrote:
Dream Theater reviews by micky annd Ghost Rider: a "fair and balanced" look on DT. Who can "outfox" the other?!?
|
hmm.... I don't like your attitude boy....
|
I couldn't help but notice the similarities.
|
between Raffaella and I? hahha it's like we are
siblings seperated after birth... though I attribute her love of Rush
to being a slightly off center euro-type hahahaha
|
Well, I wasn't thinking of that particular comparison...
-------------
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Posted By: micky
Date Posted: August 08 2006 at 19:16
xtopher wrote:
micky wrote:
xtopher wrote:
micky wrote:
xtopher wrote:
Dream Theater reviews by micky annd Ghost Rider: a "fair and balanced" look on DT. Who can "outfox" the other?!?
|
hmm.... I don't like your attitude boy....
|
I couldn't help but notice the similarities.
|
between Raffaella and I? hahha it's like we are
siblings seperated after birth... though I attribute her love of Rush
to being a slightly off center euro-type hahahaha
|
Well, I wasn't thinking of that particular comparison...
|
oh welll.... I'm a bit slow on the uptake at times... you
sometimes have to just come right out and insult us old folks...
otherwise it sails right over our heads... what particular
comparison were you thinking of then?
------------- The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip
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Posted By: xtopher
Date Posted: August 08 2006 at 19:25
^ never mind.
-------------
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Posted By: micky
Date Posted: August 08 2006 at 19:32
xtopher wrote:
^ never mind.
|
hahah... damn.. you have my curiousity aroused now... btw.. what
poll are we in anyway.. a bad sign of straying off topic isn't it..
------------- The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip
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Posted By: xtopher
Date Posted: August 08 2006 at 19:43
micky wrote:
xtopher wrote:
^ never mind.
|
hahah... damn.. you have my curiousity aroused now... btw.. what
poll are we in anyway.. a bad sign of straying off topic isn't it..
|
The one where everybody bashes DT.
-------------
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Posted By: micky
Date Posted: August 08 2006 at 19:48
xtopher wrote:
micky wrote:
xtopher wrote:
^ never mind.
|
hahah... damn.. you have my curiousity aroused now... btw.. what
poll are we in anyway.. a bad sign of straying off topic isn't it..
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The one where everybody bashes DT.
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that really helps hahhah.. I just realized in the middle of my last
post that I had no idea what thread/poll I was in... that's a bad
sign.. At least the velveteers keep their meanderings in one place.. maybe I should be more like Teafax....
------------- The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip
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Posted By: Sacred 22
Date Posted: August 08 2006 at 20:45
Posted By: AtLossForWords
Date Posted: August 08 2006 at 23:26
DREAM THEATER WITHOUT A SHADOW OF DOUBT.
Their career is impeccable, as perfect as Progressive Metal can be, or music for that matter. No matter what Dream Theater is being polled against, they are always the stronger option.
Man, kissing ass can be hilarious.
-------------
"Mastodon sucks giant monkey balls."
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Posted By: stonebeard
Date Posted: August 08 2006 at 23:32
AtLossForWords wrote:
DREAM THEATER WITHOUT A SHADOW OF DOUBT.
Their career is impeccable, as perfect as Progressive Metal can be, or music for that matter. No matter what Dream Theater is being polled against, they are always the stronger option.
Man, kissing ass can be hilarious. |
Holy crap! That is a lot of nonsense bullsh*t ass-kissing.
------------- http://soundcloud.com/drewagler" rel="nofollow - My soundcloud. Please give feedback if you want!
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Posted By: Sacred 22
Date Posted: August 08 2006 at 23:41
AtLossForWords wrote:
DREAM THEATER WITHOUT A SHADOW OF DOUBT.
Their career is impeccable, as perfect as Progressive Metal can be, or music for that matter. No matter what Dream Theater is being polled against, they are always the stronger option.
Man, kissing ass can be hilarious. |
OK, I am not one who goes for that ass kissing thing. Let the mud slinging begin..........
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Posted By: OpethGuitarist
Date Posted: August 09 2006 at 01:04
I'm proud of Vince in that he sticks up for what he believes in.
Unfortunately that's not always a good thing, as in GWB's case.
Also, no intention of making this political.
Anyways, a horrible poll, dont compare a band to an album. Thats dumb,
its like comparing an Apple to a corn field, I mean, it doesnt make
much sense...
------------- back from the dead, i will begin posting reviews again and musing through the forums
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Posted By: Sacred 22
Date Posted: August 09 2006 at 01:23
OpethGuitarist wrote:
I'm proud of Vince in that he sticks up for what he believes in. Unfortunately that's not always a good thing, as in GWB's case.
Also, no intention of making this political.
Anyways, a horrible poll, dont compare a band to an album. Thats dumb, its like comparing an Apple to a corn field, I mean, it doesnt make much sense...
|
Oh, I think not. You can certainly compare a apple to a corn field.
1. A corn field takes up more space
2. Apples are in the same family as the rose
3. An apple a day keeps the doctor away
4. Corn out of that field is a good digestive cleaner (not to be confused with corn hole)
5. Who ever heard of taking a field of corn to the teacher???
6. Corn fields comprise lots of food
7. An apple is a small portion of food
8. Apple juice is yummy
9. You could land a plane in a corn field
This to name but a few of the comparisons that can be made between an apple and a corn field.
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Posted By: AtLossForWords
Date Posted: August 09 2006 at 11:36
Sacred 22 wrote:
OpethGuitarist wrote:
I'm proud of Vince in that he sticks up for what he believes in. Unfortunately that's not always a good thing, as in GWB's case.
Also, no intention of making this political.
Anyways, a horrible poll, dont compare a band to an album. Thats dumb, its like comparing an Apple to a corn field, I mean, it doesnt make much sense...
|
Oh, I think not. You can certainly compare a apple to a corn field.
4. Corn out of that field is a good digestive cleaner (not to be confused with corn hole)
|
-------------
"Mastodon sucks giant monkey balls."
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Posted By: Raff
Date Posted: August 09 2006 at 11:44
And I thought Micky was the professional thread wrecker here...
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Posted By: AtLossForWords
Date Posted: August 09 2006 at 11:45
Posted By: Philéas
Date Posted: August 09 2006 at 15:23
OpethGuitarist wrote:
Anyways, a horrible poll, dont compare a band to an album. Thats dumb,
its like comparing an Apple to a corn field, I mean, it doesnt make
much sense...
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If one ever was to make a poll comparing apples to cornfields, I'd vote for apple.
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Posted By: micky
Date Posted: August 09 2006 at 18:38
hahah.. influence, innovation, originality... a ProgArchives legend in the making
------------- The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip
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Posted By: micky
Date Posted: August 09 2006 at 18:40
Philéas wrote:
OpethGuitarist wrote:
Anyways, a horrible poll, dont compare a band to an album. Thats dumb,
its like comparing an Apple to a corn field, I mean, it doesnt make
much sense...
|
If one ever was to make a poll comparing apples to cornfields, I'd vote for apple.
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ahhh... or the old 'diamond to freshly fertilized field' poll of which
this was just an imitation of.. you would take the diamond
of course..
------------- The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip
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Posted By: Sacred 22
Date Posted: August 09 2006 at 21:14
micky wrote:
Philéas wrote:
OpethGuitarist wrote:
Anyways, a horrible poll, dont compare a band to an album. Thats dumb, its like comparing an Apple to a corn field, I mean, it doesnt make much sense...
|
If one ever was to make a poll comparing apples to cornfields, I'd vote for apple.
|
ahhh... or the old 'diamond to freshly fertilized field' poll of which this was just an imitation of.. you would take the diamond of course..
|
Of course stating the obvious we must agree then that: apple = diamond = TFTO
Cornfield = freshly fertilized field = DT
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Posted By: Philéas
Date Posted: August 09 2006 at 21:31
Sacred 22 wrote:
Cornfield = freshly fertilized field = DT |
However, a freshly fertilized field isn't really bad, but of course I'd rather have the diamond.
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Posted By: Sacred 22
Date Posted: August 09 2006 at 21:37
Philéas wrote:
Sacred 22 wrote:
Cornfield = freshly fertilized field = DT |
However, a freshly fertilized field isn't really bad, but of course I'd rather have the diamond.
|
Geez.................and who says these polls are pointless?????
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Posted By: Phil S
Date Posted: August 09 2006 at 21:56
Reeeeeaally now. Dream theater is an awesome band, and TFTTO isn't even Yes' best album. But Yes would have to win out.
Anyway that's this old farts opinion.
But to be very serious Dream Theater really is an awesome band. I think of them as the Yes of the 21st century.
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Posted By: Sacred 22
Date Posted: August 09 2006 at 22:00
Phil S wrote:
Reeeeeaally now. Dream theater is an awesome band, and TFTTO isn't even Yes' best album. But Yes would have to win out.
Anyway that's this old farts opinion.
But to be very serious Dream Theater really is an awesome band. I think of them as the Yes of the 21st century. |
YIKES!!!!!!!!!!
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Posted By: xtopher
Date Posted: August 10 2006 at 02:28
^Maybe DT's greatness will be one of those truths which you ridicule now but will one day be accepted as self-evident (see your signature). Some of us already see it this way. Maybe we're just ahead of our time.
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