because I'm proud to be an American....
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Topic: because I'm proud to be an American....
Posted By: micky
Subject: because I'm proud to be an American....
Date Posted: July 16 2006 at 00:10
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where at least I know I can sue.... if this doesn't take the cake... I don't know what will.... UPDATED: 5:16 pm CDT July 11, 2006 BALTIMORE, MD. -- A Baltimore man is suing his parents for conceiving him as a white male. This week, a federal judge refused to toss out the lawsuit, setting up a trial for October. Dustin Campy, 33, is accusing his parents of giving birth to him as a white male instead of another race. Dustin claims that people of other races get benefits such as free doctor’s visits and payment for their jobs “under the table” to avoid taxes. ”Other people can come into our country and get off paying for things because they are not a citizen,” quotes Dustin. “I want all the money back that I had to pay over the years. I’m putting the blame on my parents for bringing me into the world as a caucasian who has to abide by everything.” He is seeking more than $300,000 in damages for medical bills and taxes that he had to pay over the course of his life. Dustin’s parents would not release an official statement at this time. U.S. District Judge Gary Wibes said that a jury should decide the matter. if anyone has a one-way ticket to Europe... Italy perferably  ... I'll buy the damn thing....------------- The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip |
Replies:
Posted By: Bern
Date Posted: July 16 2006 at 00:15
  Totally ridiculous! -------------  
RIP in bossa nova heaven. |
Posted By: Arsillus
Date Posted: July 16 2006 at 00:17
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Only in America. 
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Posted By: Zoso
Date Posted: July 16 2006 at 00:53
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I honestly don't know whether to laugh or despair. -------------  |
Posted By: bhikkhu
Date Posted: July 16 2006 at 01:24
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That Judge should lose his seat. This is even more ridiculous than overweight people suing the places that served them the horrible food. Don't you just love this society? We don't have to take responsibilty for anything. Hey, I'm a recovering alcoholic. Maybe I should sue the liquor companies. The flaw with that is, I would have to deny the responsibility for causing my own misery. So, I would then still be drinking (or most likely dead).
By the way Micky, do they have group rates? ------------- a.k.a. H.T. http://riekels.wordpress.com" rel="nofollow - http://riekels.wordpress.com |
Posted By: Ghandi 2
Date Posted: July 16 2006 at 01:24
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Yes, the guy is annoying, but I'm way more angry at the stupid judge who didn't throw this out. Fools like him cost the taxpayers millions of dollars a year. But he doesn't care; it's not his money. ------------- "Never forget that the human race with technology is like an alcoholic with a barrel of wine." Sleepytime Gorilla Museum: Because in their hearts, everyone secretly loves the Unabomber. |
Posted By: Man With Hat
Date Posted: July 16 2006 at 01:33
  
Wow...wow...this is possibly the most ridiculous thing i've heard. Unless his parents are black (not saying that the case is any better, but at least there is some case of making sense out of it) the case should be thrown out, and that judge should have his head inspected. ------------- Dig me...But don't...Bury me I'm running still, I shall until, one day, I hope that I'll arrive Warning: Listening to jazz excessively can cause a laxative effect. |
Posted By: Arsillus
Date Posted: July 16 2006 at 01:34
I'm losing faith in our judicial system. Not for inequality or whatever people gripe about, but just sheer stupidity. 
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Posted By: Ivan_Melgar_M
Date Posted: July 16 2006 at 01:35
I agree, the Judge should be removed on a misconduct behaviour trial. Having a son is no crime in USA (I believe in China it is if ou have more than one) and the parents caused no harm in the act of birth, so this should have been rejected.
Nobody can sue against the laws of nature, two caucasians will have a caucasian son or daughter(Unless the milkman is from a minority
).It's absolutely unbelievable. I believe the guy and his parents are trying to make a point, probably from a white supremacy group and the judge is the useful idiot.
Iván ------------- 
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Ghandi 2 wrote:Posted By: aapatsos
Date Posted: July 16 2006 at 08:23
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this is beyond imagination...
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Posted By: zappaholic
Date Posted: July 16 2006 at 08:36
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What the hell?
This case should not go to court. The guy should be kicked in the nards and sent on his way.
------------- "Democracy is the theory that the common people know what they want, and deserve to get it good and hard." -- H.L. Mencken |
Posted By: avestin
Date Posted: July 16 2006 at 08:56
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Micky, I am coming to America in less than a month and now you post this? I can't go back now, it's too late... ------------- http://hangingsounds.blogspot.com/" rel="nofollow - Hanging Sounds http://www.progarchives.com/ProgRockShopping.asp" rel="nofollow - PA Index of prog music vendors |
Posted By: Tony R
Date Posted: July 16 2006 at 09:11
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Posted By: Visitor13
Date Posted: July 16 2006 at 11:25
Doesn't The Progtologist live in Baltimore ? |
Posted By: micky
Date Posted: July 16 2006 at 11:28
hahahha....a premature.. welcome to America Assaf... you'll love it here. ------------- The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip |
Posted By: micky
Date Posted: July 16 2006 at 11:29
hahahah...I believe he had at least...before this came out... ------------- The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip |
Posted By: Asyte2c00
Date Posted: July 16 2006 at 11:31
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It seems mundane. |
Posted By: micky
Date Posted: July 16 2006 at 11:46
perhaps.... and that's the sad part... judges like that not only make the system look inept... it makes us liberals look like a bunch of frickin idiots hahah. Commen sense has long left the political and judicial arenas. ------------- The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip |
Posted By: Tony R
Date Posted: July 16 2006 at 12:00
| ...did it really ever reside there? |
Posted By: crimson thing
Date Posted: July 16 2006 at 14:11
...on the other hand, Mr Dustin Campy might well have a good case against his parents........for lumbering him with such a ridiculous name..... ------------- "Every man over forty is a scoundrel." GBS 
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Posted By: AtLossForWords
Date Posted: July 16 2006 at 14:12
Perhaps they need to meet Mr. Paine. -------------  
"Mastodon sucks giant monkey balls." |
Posted By: chamberry
Date Posted: July 16 2006 at 16:37
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This is unbelivable... I'm speechless... It's so... HILARIOUS!!! ------------- 
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Posted By: Güdron
Date Posted: July 16 2006 at 17:12
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This is absolutely ridiculous! I want his lawyer - I have a few things to settle myself! ------------- resistance is futile |
Posted By: Teaflax
Date Posted: July 16 2006 at 18:39
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It's just some right-wing nutcase whipped into a frenzy by Limbaugh,
Coulter, Malkin et. al. trying to make a point by doing the only thing
people of that ilk know how to do; play the victim card. It would be
funnier if he wasn't just the visible part of a movement that's
damaging the US quite severely. -------------  
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Posted By: Equality 7-2521
Date Posted: July 17 2006 at 02:19
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Prime example of judges getting too comfy in their chairs and stepping outside of the law. This trial should have been dismissed so quickly.
I've always seen the playing the victim card, and not taking personal responsibility to be a liberal thing. ------------- "One had to be a Newton to notice that the moon is falling, when everyone sees that it doesn't fall. " |
Posted By: Ivan_Melgar_M
Date Posted: July 17 2006 at 02:41
-------------
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Posted By: Paul K.
Date Posted: July 17 2006 at 03:56
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There's not a sign of this nonsense in Internet. Where did you get it? ------------- Weasels ripped my flesh |
Posted By: micky
Date Posted: July 17 2006 at 06:30
hmmm.... got it from the news page on Newscape.. however.. I can't find a trace of the story myself ..... wonder if it's a hoax... though I'll stilll take that ticket to Italy hahah good job Paul... ------------- The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip |
Posted By: Bob Greece
Date Posted: July 17 2006 at 06:52
You're right. I don't think the people who put up this case take it seriously. It is just the only way they can find to say bad things about foreigners and get away with it and get it published. ------------- http://www.last.fm/user/BobGreece/?chartstyle=basicrt10"> 
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Posted By: Sean Trane
Date Posted: July 17 2006 at 07:31
------------- let's just stay above the moral melee prefer the sink to the gutter keep our sand-castle virtues content to be a doer as well as a thinker, prefer lifting our pen rather than un-sheath our sword |
), judges are afraid to dismiss a case because of the problem they could get.Posted By: Rosescar
Date Posted: July 17 2006 at 07:51
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Only in America.
------------- http://www.soundclick.com/rosescar/ - My music! "THE AUDIENCE WERE generally drugged. (In Holland, always)." - Robert Fripp |
Posted By: Teaflax
Date Posted: July 17 2006 at 08:57
They've managed to put up a smoke screen for too long, but more and more people are beginning to see through it. -------------
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Posted By: TheProgtologist
Date Posted: July 17 2006 at 08:57
Yes I do,and even though it is so pathetic we have gotten a good laugh out of this story here. -------------  |
Posted By: Tony R
Date Posted: July 17 2006 at 08:59
Its all about control through fear... |
Posted By: Equality 7-2521
Date Posted: July 17 2006 at 11:11
I wouldn't classify any of those things as playing the victim card. I think that's more applicable to something like one of Michael Moore's films were he draws farfetched correlations but people ignore their absurdity because he shows a mother crying about losing her son in Iraq for fifteen minutes. ------------- "One had to be a Newton to notice that the moon is falling, when everyone sees that it doesn't fall. " |
Posted By: crimson thing
Date Posted: July 17 2006 at 11:41
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Has anyone seen independent verification of the story; because Paul K's right; the guy's name doesn't google; although does Progtologist's post ^^^ suggest he's heard the story elsewhere? ------------- "Every man over forty is a scoundrel." GBS
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Posted By: Syzygy
Date Posted: July 17 2006 at 11:56
The dangerous thing about that kind of satire, Equality, is that somebody might take it at face value. Evangelical christians have sometimes tried a similar tactic in this country. Obviously a country in which the reigning monarch is head of the church, the prime minister (as many have been before him) is an ostentatiously practicing christian, religious education was (until very recently) the only compulsory subject in schools and the BBCs charter obliges it to devote a significant chunk of its output to religious programming is one in which christians are an oppressed minority.
Daytime TV chat shows seem to be filled lackwits from the shallow end of the gene pool complaining that they'd be CEO of Microsoft or Regius Professor of Particle Physics at Cambridge if only the government would stop all those immigrants coming over here with their opposable thumbs and capacity for abstract thought.
Sad to say, I expect a similar lawsuit here in the UK sometime in the near future. ------------- 'Like so many of you I've got my doubts about how much to contribute to the already rich among us...' Robert Wyatt, Gloria Gloom |
Posted By: Syzygy
Date Posted: July 17 2006 at 12:06
I also tried the judge's name, and that doesn't Google either. It all starts to smell a bit fish-like.
Maybe somebody is starting urban myths to counter those interminable (and almost always false) 'political correctness gone mad' stories that fill up news forums. ------------- 'Like so many of you I've got my doubts about how much to contribute to the already rich among us...' Robert Wyatt, Gloria Gloom |
Posted By: NutterAlert
Date Posted: July 17 2006 at 12:13
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Is the Regius Professor of Particle Physics at Cambridge job up for grabs?
I've read 20 pages of stephen Hawkings book (before falling into a coma) so reckon I could do it...
look, if bush can run the states, Blair can run UK, and Prescott can keep his job anything is possible. ------------- Proud to be an un-banned member since 2005 |
Posted By: stonebeard
Date Posted: July 17 2006 at 12:18
1) He can't
2) He can't
------------- http://soundcloud.com/drewagler" rel="nofollow - My soundcloud. Please give feedback if you want! |
Posted By: Syzygy
Date Posted: July 17 2006 at 12:27
------------- 'Like so many of you I've got my doubts about how much to contribute to the already rich among us...' Robert Wyatt, Gloria Gloom |
Posted By: Teaflax
Date Posted: July 17 2006 at 12:33
-------------
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Posted By: TheProgtologist
Date Posted: July 17 2006 at 13:25
It is a story that has circulated around town but I have seen nothing about it on my local news or in our biggest paper The Baltimore Sun. ------------- |
Posted By: Equality 7-2521
Date Posted: July 17 2006 at 15:00
I call it complaining about being wrongfully attacked; not using these attacks to portray themselves as helpless victims so that people agree with their position simply to appease them for the tragidies they've suffered. ------------- "One had to be a Newton to notice that the moon is falling, when everyone sees that it doesn't fall. " |
Posted By: Teaflax
Date Posted: July 17 2006 at 15:12
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Posted By: crimson thing
Date Posted: July 17 2006 at 17:50
A pedant writes (again...).....actually, Hawking is the Lucasian Professor of Mathematics.....
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lucasian_professor - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lucasian_professor
------------- "Every man over forty is a scoundrel." GBS
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Posted By: heyitsthatguy
Date Posted: July 17 2006 at 18:36
It's the goddamn American way!! Seriously it's so funny to see people in the majority acting like they're under attack ------------- 
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Posted By: Equality 7-2521
Date Posted: July 17 2006 at 19:18
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^^ Are you somehow trying to suggest that the majority can't be under attack? Especially when it's the slim majority as in the U.S. where most of the dissenters are present in pop-culture or acadamia, so their opinions get seen in the public light. Honestly Teaflax, I don't know what you're talking about. I don't mean that as an insult; I would just like you to state what you're referring to. ------------- "One had to be a Newton to notice that the moon is falling, when everyone sees that it doesn't fall. " |
Posted By: BaldJean
Date Posted: July 17 2006 at 19:51
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the answer to that case is quite simple: he sues his parents for giving
life to him, which in essence means he does not want his life, so he
should be sentenced to death. a Solomonic way to solve the case -------------  A shot of me as High Priestess of Gaia during our fall festival. Ceterum censeo principiis obsta |
Posted By: bhikkhu
Date Posted: July 17 2006 at 20:34
You honestly don't see this? Ultra-conservative people always view something they don't like as a personal attack. Slogans such as, "Gay Marriage is ruining America," and "Illegal Immigrants are taking our jobs" are constantly bandied about. The truth is that neither really has any effect on their personal life. These so called "values" seem to be more like predjudices. Ignorance always fears what it doesn't understand. ------------- a.k.a. H.T. http://riekels.wordpress.com" rel="nofollow - http://riekels.wordpress.com |
Posted By: heyitsthatguy
Date Posted: July 17 2006 at 20:42
No, I am not suggesting that it can't be under attack. In fact, it probably is. It's just that when people are in the majority, they seem to overreact to being attacked, whereas someone in the minority has to deal with much worse yet doesn't start pointing fingers and playing the martyr. -------------
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Posted By: Equality 7-2521
Date Posted: July 17 2006 at 21:13
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^^
I think what's happening here is that since you don't agree with them you see it as complaining and getting up on the peverbial cross, but when the people you agree with do it you see it as valid.
How you make a connection between being aginst gay marriage and the truth having no effect on one's personal life is beyond me or any reasonable person I think.
Conservatives really arent' against immigration. Just illegal immigration which everyone should be against. It is illegal, get it? ------------- "One had to be a Newton to notice that the moon is falling, when everyone sees that it doesn't fall. " |
Posted By: Ivan_Melgar_M
Date Posted: July 18 2006 at 00:28
Of course nobody mentally sane can take this clain seriously and the Civil Right watchers didn't ever imagined this claim when they fought for the unlimited right to a fair trial.
But the efforts for giving rights not clearly specified in the Constitution and law are often used by people trying to abuse of them than by the real victims. The Constitution says everybody has the right to go to the courts, but they avoided to include FOR JUSTIFIED CAUSES.
Not the same, but I remember during the first Government of Alan García in Perú, there was a huge inflation, we had to take seven zeros from the Peruvian sol and then multiply it by seven, in other words, seven millions of soles became ONE NEW SOL.
The Government to help exportation, created a protected dollar that costed a very small fraction of the free market dollar I believe you could buy one MUC (Unique Market of Exchange) dollar for 25 cents of free market dollar.
Does anybody believes it helped our production to reach foreign markets?...........No, people started to send rocks taken from the beach to some cousin or friend in USA in order to have access to the MUC dollar as register international traders, they lost all the cost of the delivery, but what the hell, they gained three times the original investment because of the priviledge change supported by the Government and paid with our taxes.
The same happens when Civil Right watchers go to far to help minorities, the ones that use this new protective laws are normally priviledged people trying to get undeserved advantages or as in this case free advertising.
Iván
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Posted By: bhikkhu
Date Posted: July 18 2006 at 01:01
It's the scapegoating that bothers me. It's not that they are against gay marriage, but that it is portrayed as the thing that will destroy all life as we know it. Bush won the last election by terrifying middle America with this. Funy, but it is rarely the lack of proper documentation that is brought up with immigrants. It is the fear of losing jobs. Now, I don't think the guys coming across in the back of a truck are in line for a CEO position. Now imagine this. An employer has an unskilled job opening, and has two applicants. One is American, and speaks fluent english. The other is Mexican, and only knows enough to get by. Who do you think gets the job? The fact is that prospect number one isn't looking for that job. That's why it goes to contestant number two. ------------- a.k.a. H.T. http://riekels.wordpress.com" rel="nofollow - http://riekels.wordpress.com |
Posted By: Equality 7-2521
Date Posted: July 18 2006 at 01:42
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^^
I see very few reasonably conservatives taking this approach to gay marriage.
Not really, most conservatives realize that our economy is dependent upon the flood of imigrants from Mexico to do our unwanted jobs. They, along with myself, just went them documented. I'm not afraid of a Mexican taking my job. What I'm afraid of is the number of businesses that will have to close down if they lose their supply of immigrants, but having untrackable people in our country is not a good thing at all. ------------- "One had to be a Newton to notice that the moon is falling, when everyone sees that it doesn't fall. " |
Posted By: Ivan_Melgar_M
Date Posted: July 18 2006 at 01:46
Good point, normally Conservatives are middle - high class, I'm sure they won't take the jobs Mexican inmigrants take (Even Fox said it in a very racist way).
An illegal inmigrant should be no risk for a guy that has a medium range place in an office and much less to ones with high charges.
Iván -------------
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Posted By: Teaflax
Date Posted: July 18 2006 at 04:37
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Posted By: bhikkhu
Date Posted: July 18 2006 at 10:12
Thanks for backing me up Teaflax. I wasn't refering to all conservatives, but we only seem to hear from the hardliners. It's the fear based approach that typifies most of their campaigns. This in turn breeds the idea that they have somehow become victims. Other people then jump on the bandwagon, without really understanding the issue. Sure, some of it is based on actual problems. However, it usually gets overly exaggerated in order to serve an agenda. I should also add that this topic was about a man suing because he was born white. This is a result of the propaganda out there. The ferver over these issues has done more to breed racism and hatred, than anything else (and isn't that what the Gay Marriage issue is really about). Hate has never created anything positive. ------------- a.k.a. H.T. http://riekels.wordpress.com" rel="nofollow - http://riekels.wordpress.com |
Posted By: Equality 7-2521
Date Posted: July 19 2006 at 11:05
There's people who take their idealogies to the extreme on both sides. I see a hell of alot of liberals that are socialist and blame America for every problem in the world, but I would never write off the democratic party as unpatriotic socialists. ------------- "One had to be a Newton to notice that the moon is falling, when everyone sees that it doesn't fall. " |
Posted By: Teaflax
Date Posted: July 19 2006 at 15:55
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^There's a few million intolerant apocalyptic Right Wing Christians
whose codes and general world-view is being nurtured and spread by
Right-Wing talk show hosts and other such media. Eliminationist
rhetoric - calling those on the other side of the political aisle
vermin and traitors - is being spread by the likes of Ann Coulter, yet
she is never denounced by even the more moderate Right. There are at most a few thousand genuine Socialists in the USA, and none of them have book deals, are asked to comment on political events of the day or seen as pundits. So, what were you saying again? -------------
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Posted By: Equality 7-2521
Date Posted: July 19 2006 at 16:11
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^^ I really don't see what you just think you proved.
A few million, I think you're inflating numbers here. I also would like to know what these codes and world-views entail, and what Right-Wing talk show hosts are spreading them. Ann Coulter's statements are to be taken with a grain of salt. She knows whats she's doing, and that being as controversial as possible is the best way to get her books sold.
Maybe not genuine Socialist, but Michael Moore is certainly getting being asked to comment. ------------- "One had to be a Newton to notice that the moon is falling, when everyone sees that it doesn't fall. " |
Posted By: Teaflax
Date Posted: July 20 2006 at 01:11
Why is she not universally condemned as beyond the pale by the Right? If any Liberal were to match her statements but suggesting that the Right be deported, shot and blown up, they would be hounded and vilified (and quite rightly so, mind you).
Do you even know what Socialism is? Can you distinguish between that and Social Democracy, European Labour, European Liberalism and even American Liberalism? "Maybe not genuine Socialist"... No kidding.  -------------
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Posted By: Equality 7-2521
Date Posted: July 20 2006 at 01:16
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Coulter should be taken that way because she has said so herself.
Michael Moore undeniably wants to move the US further away from a free-market and closer to socialism. That's what I mean in that respect. ------------- "One had to be a Newton to notice that the moon is falling, when everyone sees that it doesn't fall. " |
Posted By: stonebeard
Date Posted: July 20 2006 at 01:22
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I don't know how this moved to Ann Coulter, but since we're on that subject....
I wouldn't mind her so much if she smiled once in awhile and didn't purse her lips like the crabbly old witch who lives in the creaky house at the top of the hill in so many animated kids movies. She is a terrifying bitch and if she truly believes in what she's saying, then I personally believe she should be hounded down and terrorized like a fur-wearing celebrity at a PETA march. ------------- http://soundcloud.com/drewagler" rel="nofollow - My soundcloud. Please give feedback if you want! |
Posted By: Ivan_Melgar_M
Date Posted: July 20 2006 at 01:36
I think you're giving him too much credit.
IMO the guy has found an easy way to make a high level living, it's easy to point his finger at other's mistakes. The USA Government has made a lot of mistakes in different degrees and Moore knows how to exploit them
The day the politicians stop making mistakes the guy will die in starvation, he's save because politicians will always make mistakes. The guy is not a Socialist, maybe a moderate Democrat that has found a good source of money.
If Bush had said hey people lets defeat Saddam, he's a risk to world freedom, I'm sure most USA would have supported him, why in hell he had to create the massive destruction weapons?
Let Moore try to do something instead of just criticizing and then maybe he will deserve some respect, pointing fingers is extremely easy, creating something and being pointed is much harder.
Iván -------------
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Posted By: Teaflax
Date Posted: July 20 2006 at 01:40
Besides, she has never ever backed down from any of her statements in favor of violence against those who do not agree with her, nor has she apologized for saying that Liberals should be deported or that McVeigh should have blown up the NYT building. So, exactly how she herself has claimed she shouldn't be taken seriously - and even why that should count if she did when her opinions and statements are stark and clear as day - I simply don't know. That seems to be more of an excuse for the Right to tolerate her and the inflammatory and hateful rhetoric she trades in. It's despicable, and anyone who does not clearly condemn her is in essence holding her blameless.
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Posted By: Equality 7-2521
Date Posted: July 20 2006 at 02:08
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I don't see anything particularly wrong with you threatening me if you're joking and state it. Me and my friends call each other fa****s, dick suckers, ugly, stupid, etc I've never been upset about it. My friend recently recovered from cancer and we make fun of him for being bald, having one testicle, etc. Michael Moore has derided capitalism for weeding out businesses with higher prices and low quality products. He has blamed CA’s past energy problems on deregulation. He blames Indian Reservations on capitalism, somehow, regardless of the fact that they’re run in a socialistic manner by a bureaucracy. He continually blames capitalism for crime and poor schooling. On crossfire he said, “Capitalism is a sin.” “This is an evil system.” He hates big business. He hates small business. He was quoted saying “f**k all these small businesses.” ------------- "One had to be a Newton to notice that the moon is falling, when everyone sees that it doesn't fall. " |
Posted By: Teaflax
Date Posted: July 20 2006 at 02:50
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Man, they have you hook, line and sinker. I don't think there's
anything I or anyone could say (such as "f**k all these small
businesses" being aimed at a particular group of small
businesses - MM is nothing if not a businessman) that would make you
change your mind. Then again...that's precisely what religious
indoctrination is good training for. But, on the whole, you're just a small cog in the machine of Right wing apologia and demonization. It's just a little disheartening to see. -------------
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Posted By: cuncuna
Date Posted: July 20 2006 at 03:05
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I also live in America, but in the south end of it. Believe it or not, as much as we are all somewhat brown, we also have white supremacy groups (of idiots). Our laws prevents us to even think about using it for something good, since it is slow and moronic most of the times. If we had here the kind of system you have there, I would like to believe that we wouldn't spent it on thngs like the one that starts the topic, but human nature is much to bizarre. I wish I had you legal system for a day, to force industries to behave, people to be responsable, and most of all, to be aware, for respect to the other or for fear to the odd of actually get convicted (and perhaps pay it with life itself) for doing bad things. Come to south America and try to sue somebody for anything that yuo consider harmfull to you, and see what you get. That family sue guy... you should all go to his house and kick him with energy... or send him here, I'll do the kicking myself, while I show him cases that get dissmised by judges that would make you all cry... ------------- ¡Beware of the Bee! |
Posted By: crimson thing
Date Posted: July 20 2006 at 07:20
^ The guy who sued his family.........probably didn't exist, since noone's found any independent account of this story.......another urban myth....I guess those early proto-scientists who believed in spontaneous generation weren't so wrong, after all........still, he's provided a useful peg on which to hang an entertaining debate........speaking of which.........my sincere  to Teaflax, who's saved me the bother of having to post anything here, since he's said most of it for me (although I might have gone even further to the left than he.....)------------- "Every man over forty is a scoundrel." GBS
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Posted By: bhikkhu
Date Posted: July 20 2006 at 08:45
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I would also like to thank Teaflax for continuing with this. Man, I was getting exhausted. ------------- a.k.a. H.T. http://riekels.wordpress.com" rel="nofollow - http://riekels.wordpress.com |
Posted By: Syzygy
Date Posted: July 20 2006 at 10:07
In much the same way that Christianity has subdivided into various factions who disagree with each other about how the bible should be interpreted (think Catholic/Protestant, then Baptists (assorted), Methodists, evangelicals, Mormons, Jehova's Witnesses, Opus Dei, 7th Day Adventists, the Reverend Jim Jones' People's Temple etc) so there are different ideas about capitalism. In recent years the dominant strand in the USA and parts of the EU has been a kind of free market fundamentalism. It is possible to believe that an unrestricted free market is a bad idea (which it is) without being anti capitalist.
Michael Moore is not a great example of anti capitalist thought (come to that, he's not a great advertisement for abstract thought either). He's a successful independent film maker and moderately affluent businessman who chooses to live and work in the USA. His children are privately educated. The fact that he advocates a slightly more even distribution of wealth, greater accountability of major corporations and a more efficient social welfare system does not make him Karl Marx.
Any Manichean world view is inherently dangerous. Media rentamouths (the majority of whom seem to be right wing, although the few examples that the left has thrown up are no better) don't change people's opinions, but they do reinforce them. When they reinforce bigotry, ignorance, fear and hatred this has a negative effect on society as a whole - the Anne Coulters of this world degrade us all as human beings, however disingenuously they try to claim otherwise.
What made Bill Hicks great (and you say you like him) was his ability to tackle complex issues without reducing them to rabble rousing soundbites. Were he alive today he'd be attacking Michael Moore with as much gusto as he'd be laying into George Dubya, and we'd be better off for it. You cite George Orwell and Kurt Vonnegut as favourite writers. Orwell remained a socialist until his death, despite his disillusionment with Stalin's Soviet Union. How do you equate that with your defence of one dimensional right wing rabble rousers?
------------- 'Like so many of you I've got my doubts about how much to contribute to the already rich among us...' Robert Wyatt, Gloria Gloom |
Posted By: Equality 7-2521
Date Posted: July 20 2006 at 21:54
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^ One's politcal belief's do nothing to effect the quality of their comedy or writing. George Orwell wrote fantastic books, and he conveyed his message in a tasteful way. Why would that say anything about my enjoyment of his material. Exactly what "one dimensional right wing rabble rousers" have I've defended?
Please Teaflax, change my mind. If I'm wrong I'd love to see the light. Tell me what small businesses he was referring to, tell me what he really meant when he called capitalism a sin. Also I don't see what my faith as a catholic has to do with my politcal position. I'm not against abortion, euthanasia, and the death penalty because I'm catholic (not that that would make me right winged), but rather the other way around. I'm not against gay marriage. I don't see how my economic view is effected by my religion. ------------- "One had to be a Newton to notice that the moon is falling, when everyone sees that it doesn't fall. " |
Posted By: Syzygy
Date Posted: July 21 2006 at 14:40
Try Ann Coulter for starters - or have I missed her insightful contributions to Western epistemology somewhere? ------------- 'Like so many of you I've got my doubts about how much to contribute to the already rich among us...' Robert Wyatt, Gloria Gloom |
Posted By: Equality 7-2521
Date Posted: July 21 2006 at 14:44
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I didn't defend her. Personally, I don't like her, and a majority of the time I don't agree with her. I just said her statements are to be taken with a grain of salt. ------------- "One had to be a Newton to notice that the moon is falling, when everyone sees that it doesn't fall. " |
Posted By: Syzygy
Date Posted: July 21 2006 at 16:25
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I also would like to know what these codes and world-views entail, and what Right-Wing talk show hosts are spreading them. Ann Coulter's statements are to be taken with a grain of salt. She knows whats she's doing, and that being as controversial as possible is the best way to get her books sold.
Whatever you say.
------------- 'Like so many of you I've got my doubts about how much to contribute to the already rich among us...' Robert Wyatt, Gloria Gloom |
Posted By: Equality 7-2521
Date Posted: July 21 2006 at 17:36
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Exactly what I said apparently. I told you I said she should just be taken with a grain of salt, and that is exactly what your quoting of me proves. ------------- "One had to be a Newton to notice that the moon is falling, when everyone sees that it doesn't fall. " |
Posted By: stonebeard
Date Posted: July 21 2006 at 17:41
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But in saying that, you're defending her slightly, writing off the severity of what she's saying. Wheter or not she truly means what she's saying, the fact that she's even saying such horrid things is disturbing. ------------- http://soundcloud.com/drewagler" rel="nofollow - My soundcloud. Please give feedback if you want! |
Posted By: Australian
Date Posted: July 21 2006 at 18:41
What a wiredo , only in America
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Posted By: micky
Date Posted: June 05 2008 at 18:28
wise words... http://www.cnn.com/video/#/video/crime/2008/06/05/dnt.ct.hit.and.run.wtnh - http://www.cnn.com/video/#/video/crime/2008/06/05/dnt.ct.hit.and.run.wtnh here's hoping everyone got to work on time...  ------------- The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip |
Posted By: debrewguy
Date Posted: June 05 2008 at 19:09
I remember that a couple of guys by the name of Vlad And Uncle Joe got quite spectacular results from useful idiots ... ------------- "Here I am talking to some of the smartest people in the world and I didn't even notice,” Lieutenant Columbo, episode The Bye-Bye Sky-High I.Q. Murder Case. |
Posted By: micky
Date Posted: June 05 2008 at 19:11
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whoa.. where the hell did that quote come from hahahhah
------------- The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip |
Posted By: JJLehto
Date Posted: June 05 2008 at 22:48
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yea.....another one of those frivilous, crazy laswsuits that's won on a technicality like the hot coffee at mcdonalds, the guy who used his lawnmower on the bushes, or my favorite the couple having sex on the RR tracks and got hit, not only did they live somehow but when their lawsuit since no sign said they shouldnt be there |
Posted By: Atkingani
Date Posted: June 06 2008 at 00:47
Not an American but thanks goodness they were on the right side here... just remembering! 6 June, The D-Day...
 And not forgetting UK, France, Canada, the former USSR, all other allieds and all the people who also fought Nazism (many Germans included).
------------- Guigo ~~~~~~ |
Posted By: GoldenSpiral
Date Posted: June 06 2008 at 09:01
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Yeah, hooray for D-Day and the folks who served.
also, reading through this thread... remember Teaflax? what happened to that guy? he was fun. ------------- http://www.myspace.com/altaic" rel="nofollow - http://www.myspace.com/altaic ALTAIC "Oceans Down You'll Lie" coming soon |
Posted By: Relayer09
Date Posted: June 06 2008 at 15:27
 ------------- If you lose your temper, you've lost the arguement. -Proverb |
Posted By: Garion81
Date Posted: June 11 2008 at 15:34
Fair enough but consumer groups have exploited the fear factor as well as organized labor both of which have been in the liberal camp so it works for both sides. Hasn't Gloria Allred used the victim card in many of her well publicized cases? Lawyers in general make highly publicized cases like this to get THEIR name out there not to promote their political agenda. Seems like there is a ratio of an attorney for every 5 citizens. Parents encouraged their children to be lawyers and now there are too many of them and only so many government jobs to go around so they result to crap like this to get an edge. ' As for immigrants taking our jobs that train of thought goes back to the Civil war and caused riots in NYC because of how many Irish had migrated into the country. I don't think that is the relevant argument people are making now. I think it is more of how American companies are shipping jobs overseas and that does affect peoples lives. Illegal immigration is a separate problem in that most of these people and their employers are not paying the proper taxes yet use the services we all use everyday putting more of strain on them. Hey they can stay if they pay that is my thought. Maybe we need a national and state sales tax not an income tax. As for the conservative "ruling class" come live in my state Teaflx you might be surprised. Our republican governor would give Ted Kennedy a run for his liberal money. I think the ultra conservative group you refer to influence the lip service of members of the republican party causing the slogans you quote but as far as the overall leading party in the country it would be the democrats by far. They have control of more state legislatures and have far more registered voters. The religious right or the moral majority hit their highs in the Reagan era and maybe in an odd state or two they hold some sway but not really. ------------- 
"What are you going to do when that damn thing rusts?" |
Posted By: WinterLight
Date Posted: June 11 2008 at 16:01
Of at least equal importance is for us to remember that the Allies, despite their proclamations of noble intentions, were really acting out of self-interest: Europe was under occupation by German forces while the US needed a way out of the depression. It is historically transparent that the victors could've acted to prevent the rise of Nazism (particularly, the Holocaust) in Germany, but for the most cynical of reasons they chose to turn a blind eye to Hitler (in fact, the American and European business community gushed over the sort of opportunities that fascism provided them). It is also noteworthy that prosecutors at Nuremberg candidly asserted that they would not regard as crimes those acts which the Allies themselves committed. |
Posted By: Slartibartfast
Date Posted: June 11 2008 at 16:42
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Don't make me put a boot up your ass, because it's the American way, ya know. 'Cause I'm proud to be an 'Merican, where as least I used to be free... ------------- Released date are often when it it impacted you but recorded dates are when it really happened... 
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Posted By: micky
Date Posted: June 11 2008 at 16:57
intersting... noble? that belongs to the men ON BOTH SIDES who fought for their countries.. having dealt with that.. governments ALWAYS act not of nobility but of pure self-interest. You say the most cynical of reasons... oh no.. nothing cynical about the blind eye given to Hitler and the rise of Nazism. Quite simply... the 'west' feared Communism FAR more than the Fascism. Note ..we didn't declare war on Germany... they did us. Want to point the single greatest mistake Hitler made.. that was it. ------------- The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip |
Posted By: TGM: Orb
Date Posted: June 11 2008 at 17:49
Nah. Calling off the Sea-Lion offensive to invade Russia was even more dense. 'Sides, he declared war on the US as a contractual obligation to Japan, if I remember correctly, which gives it at least some excusability. Not his brightest moment, certainly, but Russia's entry was more pivotal in my opinion than America's. |
Posted By: stonebeard
Date Posted: June 12 2008 at 17:33
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America used to be a good country. Now it's being bought by other countries. The leaders don't care, the citizens don't care. The policies are awful. Common sense is dead. I appreciate the founding fathers as much as anyone can, but at the moment, I can't look on the leadership and policies of this country with anything but hatred. ------------- http://soundcloud.com/drewagler" rel="nofollow - My soundcloud. Please give feedback if you want! |
Posted By: heyitsthatguy
Date Posted: June 12 2008 at 21:29
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you only look at the leadership and policies with hatred? you have much more restraint than I
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Posted By: micky
Date Posted: June 12 2008 at 21:47
you aren't the only one brother.... ------------- The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip |
Posted By: Harry Hood
Date Posted: June 13 2008 at 02:49
Man Overboard and myself do as well.  I've lived here my whole freakin' life. ------------- 
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Posted By: micky
Date Posted: June 18 2008 at 18:03
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absolutely f**king amazing.... today's youth.... http://sports.espn.go.com/espnmag/story?id=3450245&lpos=spotlight&lid=tab1pos1 - http://sports.espn.go.com/espnmag/story?id=3450245&lpos=spotlight&lid=tab1pos1 ------------- The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip |
Posted By: debrewguy
Date Posted: June 18 2008 at 19:40
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With all this criticism of the U.S.A. (which in my country Canada, is sometimes endemic) it might be a good question to ask why so many people want to get in. many folks love their nation. many have immigrated despite this love. many have made America their home.many now love America as their nation. All in all, people, it's easy to take potshots at what is realistically the greatest country in the world today. Not the best, as that is subjective. My vote, of course, going to Canada. But please, could we balance the failings of this grand land (wow, nice alliteration, eh) with a few qualities. Or at least include some comparisons. Hey, let's see how the U.S. stacks up against - Russia, China, Myanmar, North Korea, Saudi Arabia, Mexico, Cuba, South Africa, Serbia, and a host of others. Add some europeens, scandis and other "civilized" countries, if you want. Let's see how the U.S. compares in freedom, rule of law, quality of life, opportunity, racism, corruption, hope, charity, etc ... Let's see if we have to admit that the U.S. isn't all that bad. Oh, let's see if we can give up the idea that the American government is evil when it does things we don't agree with, and evil when it doesn't do something we agree with.  ------------- "Here I am talking to some of the smartest people in the world and I didn't even notice,” Lieutenant Columbo, episode The Bye-Bye Sky-High I.Q. Murder Case. |
Posted By: WinterLight
Date Posted: June 18 2008 at 21:23
Perhaps as an American, I can answer this in the following way. Indeed, many great achievements have occurred in this nation; certain freedoms, like the freedom of speech, are factually unsurpassed by other nations. However, it's far too easy (and in my opinion, morally reprehensible) to cheerlead for the home team. Washington is demonstrably the worst perpetrator of all sorts of global atrocities, not the least of which are the myriad of growing democracies which it is shattered. These things deserve attention and scrutiny of the highest order. |
Posted By: debrewguy
Date Posted: June 19 2008 at 20:43
True, it has done its' share. And even if you understand the idea of realpolitik, that doesn't mean that every thing was acceptable as part of that "game". But please compare the U.S. to the opponents it faced - the USSR and China. So while it would be a great idea to have something comparable to South Africa's Truth and Reconciliation commission (where the bad guys were invited to admit their crimes in return for forgiveness and immunity from prosecution, and the victims were able to confront their former tormentors, and also put a face on the horrors done to them), in the U.S. it would just be a showdown between the extremes, and in the other countries, the evil would be censored. Yes, even in Putin's nascent democracy. ------------- "Here I am talking to some of the smartest people in the world and I didn't even notice,” Lieutenant Columbo, episode The Bye-Bye Sky-High I.Q. Murder Case. |
Posted By: WinterLight
Date Posted: June 20 2008 at 00:13
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