21st. Century Schizoid Band.
Printed From: Progarchives.com
Category: Progressive Music Lounges
Forum Name: Suggest New Bands and Artists
Forum Description: Suggest, create polls, and classify new bands you would like included on Prog Archives
URL: http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=23109
Printed Date: November 26 2024 at 06:49
Software Version: Web Wiz Forums 11.01 - http://www.webwizforums.com
Topic: 21st. Century Schizoid Band.
Posted By: mrgd
Subject: 21st. Century Schizoid Band.
Date Posted: May 09 2006 at 21:14
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I've been pushing this band's barrow for some time now and with KC being so popular in general I remain surprised that so few seem to know them or seem interested. Sure, I understand that some Frippofiles may never be able to embrace this band, but here are some reasons why they should be proposed.
1. They are happening now (check out their website)
2. They feature at least 5 of the original or early KC members.
3. They feature material from at least the first 4 groundbreaking KC albums.
4. They are playing better than ever with maturity, hugely improved chops and todays technology.
5. They are adding newly written material as well as playig other stuff (e.g. from members early solo projects and from the ' McDonald and Giles' releases).
6. Jakko Jakszyk does an admirable job on guitar and vocals and is a very skilled musician whose talents seemlessly ease into the band.
7. Their integrity as eminent prog/jazz/session players cannot be questioned
8. 'McDonald and Giles' are also in the Archives.
9. They have at least 2 excellent releases in the DVD' Live in Japan' and the CD 'Pictures of a City- Live in NY'
The only negatives I can think of are, of course, no Fripp and they are ,in essence , a reunion band of unfashionably old geezers. So, come on people, try to get into them and don't descriminate. Let's add them to the Archives. ------------- Looking still the same after all these years... mrgd |
Replies:
Posted By: mrgd
Date Posted: May 22 2006 at 21:45
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Has no-one got anything to say about this band,positive or negative? ------------- Looking still the same after all these years... mrgd |
Posted By: kingofbizzare
Date Posted: May 22 2006 at 21:50
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I haven't heard much of their stuff, but I've liked what I heard (and yes, it was proggy too). I love Fripp, but I'm ok with a sort of Fripp-less Crimson like this. The idea kind of reminds me of The Grandmothers (sort of a reformed early Mothers of Invention), who I also think should be here. ------------- http://www.last.fm/user/kingofbizzare/?chartstyle=asimpleblue5"> 
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Posted By: mrgd
Date Posted: May 23 2006 at 22:03
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TO KINGOFBIZZARE:
Thanks for your response. It's good that as a Fripp and KC fan you don't have a problem with this band existing alongside KC and Fripp-less . I expect many die-hard KC fans would have some trouble getting passed that.
IMO it's exciting for prog fans in general that this band is making a comeback and that it's happening NOW. What I find astonishing is that so few seem to know about them or seem to care, when the band boasts these legend-like artists back together [albeit without Fripp]. I would have thought it was big news in prog circles, but it seems not. ------------- Looking still the same after all these years... mrgd |
Posted By: Eetu Pellonpaa
Date Posted: May 24 2006 at 03:09
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A very good proposal for inclusion! Here's their home pages:
http://www.21stcenturyschizoidband.com/ - http://www.21stcenturyschizoidband.com/
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Posted By: mrgd
Date Posted: May 24 2006 at 22:41
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TO EETU PELLONPAA:
Thank you for your endorsement. My computer skills [or lack thereof] do not extend to posting other sites for peoples benefit , but i'm working on it. ------------- Looking still the same after all these years... mrgd |
Posted By: chopper
Date Posted: June 05 2006 at 15:21
| Noted. |
Posted By: retuow
Date Posted: July 30 2006 at 15:12
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I sure hope they get included. As the current (?) King Crimson line-up doesn't play their old stuff, this band nicely fills the void! ------------- Human beings were created by water to carry it uphill. |
Posted By: Fassbinder
Date Posted: July 30 2006 at 19:41
| I have their so-called "Official Bootleg Volume One" (track-list: 1. A Man A City, 2. Catfood, 3. In The Court Of The Crimson King, 4. Formentara (sic!) Lady, 5. Ladies Of The Road, 6. I Talk To The Wind, 7. 21st Century Schizoid Man). Just an excellent album, in my opinion. |
Posted By: mrgd
Date Posted: August 29 2006 at 01:49
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I am a little bemused that CJ3 [Crimson Jazz Trio] makes it on to PA, but this band of living prog legends playing legendary material does not. Not that I have anything against CJ3.I love their concept and their playing . I'm just a little surprised ,that's all.
Anyone else have any views? ------------- Looking still the same after all these years... mrgd |
Posted By: Eetu Pellonpaa
Date Posted: August 29 2006 at 03:30
Maybe it just takes very long time to be added, as there's a three person team of band additions, and a huge and constantly growing amount of bands to be added (with priorities I quess). I know by experience that it can be difficult, but let's try to be patient! 
Maybe by following this procedure would hasten it up: http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=17363 - http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=17363 ?
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Posted By: mrgd
Date Posted: September 04 2006 at 00:46
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I'm afraid I'm one of those daunted ones referred to in the new criteria- not being computer orientated. Hoprfully someone else will pick them up . Thanks for the suggestion. ------------- Looking still the same after all these years... mrgd |
Posted By: bhikkhu
Date Posted: September 04 2006 at 01:16
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I just did a quick look, and heard some samples. Not bad at all. The only thing is, do they have any originals, or any studio albums? If not, membership aside, aren't they just a notch up from a tribute band? ------------- a.k.a. H.T. http://riekels.wordpress.com" rel="nofollow - http://riekels.wordpress.com |
Posted By: Fassbinder
Date Posted: September 04 2006 at 01:45
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At least one of their albums is a studio album, namely, Official Bootleg Volume One. If you are referring to an originality -- I doubt they have in their repertoire non-Crimson songs. But, firstly, Ian McDonald is a writer of some King Crimson songs they play, and secondly, the group called Crimson Jazz Trio is already in PA, also with only KC repertoire. |
Posted By: bhikkhu
Date Posted: September 04 2006 at 18:34
From my perspective, Crimson Jazz Trio has completely reinterpreted the songs. They are jazz instrumentals. However, I will look into it some more. ------------- a.k.a. H.T. http://riekels.wordpress.com" rel="nofollow - http://riekels.wordpress.com |
Fassbinder wrote:Posted By: bhikkhu
Date Posted: September 04 2006 at 22:10
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Did some checking. The consensus seems to be that they only qualify as a tribute band. If they do some originals, things may change. Keep watching. ------------- a.k.a. H.T. http://riekels.wordpress.com" rel="nofollow - http://riekels.wordpress.com |
Posted By: Ivan_Melgar_M
Date Posted: September 04 2006 at 22:23
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Sorry to be the bad guy, but I must disagree.
This is a site for Prog artists who are creating music not for tribute bands, if we add them, why not The Musical Box? They not only play but recreate the Genesis concerts, and Hackett has performed wiyth them.
Then also Supper's Ready, they have legal authorization of Genesis, and whhere will this end, my local pub presents bands that play covers of different icons.
I believe an artist has to create something, not only perform what others have done to be considered here.
Hey, why not the Magna Carta Staff very generic? They made tributes to Genesis, Yes, ELP, Jethro Tull, King Criomson, etc. One of the main characteristics of Prog is originality, if the music is not original because somebody has played something similar before, at least all the bands need to have original material.
I honestly have more than douts about The Crimson Jazz Trio, but it's already done, 21st Century Schizoid Band has done nothing original and worthy to be included here IMHO.
If a mistake has been commited, this is not an excuse to make another one even when Crimson Jazz Trio at least has re-created the music, but still I believe they shouldn't be here.
There's already a King Crimson and this guys only recreate their material, if they release new material I believe they would be welcomed depending if what they do is Prog or not, but until then, my personal opinion is no.
Iván ------------- 
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Posted By: mrgd
Date Posted: September 06 2006 at 02:05
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It's pleasing that this band is starting to generate some interest in at least one forum.
Yes, the live recordings to date only include a couple of recent originals. There's a Mel Collins tune and one of Jakko's songs. Remember though they also do some 'McDonald and Giles' tunes and possibly an Ian McDonald original or two as well. I'm not sure how a 'tribute band' is defined. Some would argue that this band has become THE band . In this case ,as I understand it ,4 out of 5 have been members of the early KC including at least one original member. The band has included three of the members of 'McDonald an Giles'. So, I pose the question, exactly to whom should any tribute be paid? In any event, I did read that they have been writing some new original material to be released at some future time. [Please note I say 'some new original material' because I dare say at least 2 or 3 of them may have had a hand in writing some of the KC material they now play. If I am right about that, it tends to deflate the 'tribute band' argument even further,imo]. ------------- Looking still the same after all these years... mrgd |
Posted By: bhikkhu
Date Posted: September 06 2006 at 02:21
The fact that those guys composed some of the music is not in dispute. But the act is really no different than what a tribute does. Plus, there is a King Crimson still around. Remember when the Beach Boys had two acts touring? Would it have been warranted to see them as two unique bands? I think you see my point. If they do become more, then we can take another look. As I said, keep watching. ------------- a.k.a. H.T. http://riekels.wordpress.com" rel="nofollow - http://riekels.wordpress.com |
Posted By: Ivan_Melgar_M
Date Posted: September 06 2006 at 02:32
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Posted By: mrgd
Date Posted: September 06 2006 at 02:41
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My point is that this band is more original to the early KC and it's material back then than the existing band. Does the existing KC with it's one original member still perform this early KC stuff or even want to? If it did ,it would sound much different for obvious reasons, the most compelling of which being that half the guys who made it famous are in another band.Therefore I cannot agree with this tribute band tag . They are and remain an original band in their own right,imo.
In any event,one thing we can all agree on and hope for is some new material from these great musicians . That would make us all happy. ------------- Looking still the same after all these years... mrgd |
Posted By: Ivan_Melgar_M
Date Posted: September 06 2006 at 03:00
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Posted By: mrgd
Date Posted: September 06 2006 at 03:47
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TO IVAN:
The polarisation of our respective views on this one I find amusing. I think it's good to have some robust debate altho. I seem to be in the minority to some extent. I would like to get the band's own slant on why they are concentrating on this older but nonetheless good KC material. Cynics may argue that they 're doing so as a stepping stone to other hopeful successes. But I don't think so .We are talking about very accomplished and sought after musicians here,even at their ages and at this stage of their respective careers. I believe they are doing this material because they enjoy it and still find it challenging to perform. Many of the songs are rearranged to some extent and the soloing shows the extent to which their musicianship has improved since the 70s. This is all good imo. if not original. Their new material may be disappointing to many,no matter how good it may be. We'll just have to wait and see.I don't believe that they will necessarily want to sound like KC all the time either but who knows. One thing is certain, this band was always going to polarise peoples views simply because of the importance of KC and peoples love of them, no matter which incarnation of the band or era . Long may it continue. ------------- Looking still the same after all these years... mrgd |
Posted By: Ivan_Melgar_M
Date Posted: September 06 2006 at 13:45
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NO MRGD you're not a minority, thre only two debating are you and me and our opinions count exactly the same. Iván -------------
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Posted By: bhikkhu
Date Posted: September 06 2006 at 20:14
This is something that confuses me. They are great musicians, so why don't they write some originals? They are going where the money is, for now. If they do finally compose some new music, it won't matter if it measures up. If it is prog, they can be included. ------------- a.k.a. H.T. http://riekels.wordpress.com" rel="nofollow - http://riekels.wordpress.com |
Posted By: mrgd
Date Posted: September 06 2006 at 22:53
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TO BHIKKHU:
I agree that it is puzzling that they haven't yet released new material given their musical pedigrees. It lends support to your view that they're chasing the money- the stepping stone argument ,at this stage. Regarding your query, I was responding to IVAN when he suggests that any new material won't sound like KC.I'm not sure that they would want to. My other observation about people being disappointed with them or not liking them is from the point of view of those KC/Fripp die -hards who may not like anything they do simply because they are not KC and have the audacity to 'cover' the early material. This is not my view, but already this approach is starting to show through from some of the posts. This is what I am getting at when I suggest that this band will always polarise the views of fans. There will always be some who would say 'How dare they .They are not King Crimson , never will be and have nothing to do with King Crimson any more.'The die-hards may simply never accept them no matter what they do - good or bad doing originals ,the older material or whatever. I have been encouraged by a previous post that accepted them as filling a void by doing the earlier material now ,when KC no longer does it , leaving the question of their originality or otherwise aside. ------------- Looking still the same after all these years... mrgd |
Posted By: bhikkhu
Date Posted: September 07 2006 at 00:24
Still covers of an existing band, whether Fripp plays those songs or not. Ivan brought up a good point with the royalties issue. My comment about any new music was solely for purposes of inclusion. No matter what it is, if it's prog, they should be in. ------------- a.k.a. H.T. http://riekels.wordpress.com" rel="nofollow - http://riekels.wordpress.com |
Posted By: mrgd
Date Posted: September 07 2006 at 03:44
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I understand very well the contractual/copyright/royalty and restraint of trade issues.[It's a part of what I do].They certainly have some significance in exactly this sought of case altho. I understand ,from their web site ,that Mr. Fripp doesn't have a problem with 21stCSB.
What I don't understand is the desire to call them a tribute band, but there's no point in going over old ground. Unless someone else also wants to take up the cudgels on their behalf, I guess we'll have to wait for some newly released original material before they will be considered for PA. It's a shame in my view, but c'est la vie! The discussion has so far raised some interesting points if anyone has more to add. Thanks for your views so far. That's all from me. ------------- Looking still the same after all these years... mrgd |
Posted By: Terra Australis
Date Posted: September 16 2006 at 03:31
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I really like the Schizoid band and the power they bring to old classics. The two sax attack really adds to the music they play. And they do have originals that they play. And they give people a chance to see and hear the original band members in action which is much more than a tribute band. However, they need to produce a CD of originals to become a band in their own right. Perhaps we should encourage them... http://www.21stcenturyschizoidband.com/21stguestbook/21stguestbook.html ------------- Allomerus. Music with progressive intent. http://allomerus.bandcamp.com" rel="nofollow - http://allomerus.bandcamp.com |
Posted By: mrgd
Date Posted: September 18 2006 at 20:00
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TO TERRA AUSTRALIS:
Agreed! ------------- Looking still the same after all these years... mrgd |
Posted By: Dick Heath
Date Posted: September 20 2006 at 13:08
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So what is Ian Wallace's Crimson Jazz Trio then........ when you are taken many bars into a tune (e.g. the album King Crimson Songbook Volume 1), before you start to recognise the original KC theme and then that may only be transient. I wouldn't support the majority of Ivan's argument, because other precedents exist - e.g. surely otherwise Roger Waters doing The Wall with non Floyd members for the rest of the band, would be called a tribute on those terms????????????????????? Nobody calls the Manfreds now touring the old 60's Manfred Mann Band R&B songbook, a tribute being without Manfred Mann....the majority (rather than one) of the old band are in place for goodness sake. 21st Century Schizoid Band (if it has not been folded) retain a majority hardcore of original Krimson players playing their own original music plus 30 years or more experience on top.
I'm hoping Jakko Jakscyk will be back on my radio show this autumn, promoting his new album The Bruised Romantic Glee Clue (of which one CD is a deliberate tribute to Krimson, Soft Machine and Henry Cow- no doubt you missed him and our earlier promotion of the album in June), and I will be most happy to put those sort of questions to him.
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Posted By: mrgd
Date Posted: September 20 2006 at 19:41
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Thanks Dick. I'll eagerly keep an eye out for your reports on this.
I'm concerned at any hint that the band may have folded. I see that there web site has not been updated for some time now. Please keep us abreast of any news in this regard. ------------- Looking still the same after all these years... mrgd |
Posted By: bhikkhu
Date Posted: September 20 2006 at 19:57
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The Crimson Jazz Trio reinterprets the songs. Schizoid Band has yet to do anything original, or set them apart from KC (which still exists). ------------- a.k.a. H.T. http://riekels.wordpress.com" rel="nofollow - http://riekels.wordpress.com |
Posted By: Dick Heath
Date Posted: September 21 2006 at 05:45
However, if it was your music/arrangement in the first place, surely the originality of the interpretation remains your's......? |