’In Held Twas In I": first prog epic?
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URL: http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=21669
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Topic: ’In Held Twas In I": first prog epic?
Posted By: earlyprog
Subject: ’In Held Twas In I": first prog epic?
Date Posted: April 12 2006 at 16:21
| Over 17 minutes with varied themes and emotions, Procol Harum's 1968 melody "In Held Twas In I" seems to be the first to meet the prog epic criteria. Or was there anything earlier? |
Replies:
Posted By: Mandrakeroot
Date Posted: April 13 2006 at 03:46
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YES!!!
For always yours, Mandrakeroot. |
Posted By: earlyprog
Date Posted: April 13 2006 at 04:26
Mandrakeroot, as a specialist on Italian prog, which was the first Italian prog epic? |
MANDRAKEROOT wrote:Posted By: Sean Trane
Date Posted: April 13 2006 at 05:58
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yas for me two>> Fisher and Trower are fantastic ------------- let's just stay above the moral melee prefer the sink to the gutter keep our sand-castle virtues content to be a doer as well as a thinker, prefer lifting our pen rather than un-sheath our sword |
Posted By: freebird
Date Posted: April 13 2006 at 06:05
| I loved "In held" when I got that album. Was this done by "Transatlantic" too? I heard it on XM and it sounded almost exactly the same. |
Posted By: earlyprog
Date Posted: April 13 2006 at 06:22
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They certainly did. They also did the Abbey Road medley live (on "Live in America"). |
Posted By: Abstrakt
Date Posted: April 13 2006 at 06:49
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i don't know, but i don't think there is an earlier epic |
. of course, there was stuff going on in 65-67, but that wasn't epics.Posted By: freebird
Date Posted: April 14 2006 at 08:07
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Posted By: earlyprog
Date Posted: May 19 2006 at 05:36
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Anyone knows the exact release date for Procol Harum's 1968 album "Shine on brightly" which had "In Held Twas In I" on it?
I'm asking because The Nice released the "Ars longa vita brevis" suite in November 1968. It clocks in at 19:26 and perhaps rightly deserves the "First Epic" tag? (How could I possibly forget this?!)
Recording and release dates for these first epics?
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Posted By: earlyprog
Date Posted: May 24 2006 at 06:23
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Another thread has revealed that "Shine on Brightly" was released December '68, while "Ars longa vita brevis" was released November '68. Don't know which of the two was recorded first.
Consequently, "Ars" is the first symphonic prog epic, beating "In Held Twas In I" with an inch.
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Posted By: Cheesecakemouse
Date Posted: May 24 2006 at 06:50
Try listening to Miles Davis in a silent way 2 20 minute Jazz pieces with a somewhat symphonic structure (this was the beginning of his fusion period so it counts as prog). I listened to it the other day I'm sure bands like Van Der Graft Generator and King Crimson got ideas from it, give the album a listen and you'll see what I mean. ------------- |
Posted By: Drachen Theaker
Date Posted: May 24 2006 at 09:19
Hello again earlyprog! There was a thread about this a few months back. I think the conclusion was Ars Longa Vita Brevis (November'68) was the first 20 minute prog epic as it was released before Shine on Brightly (December '68).
PS. Have you accepted that Ars Longa was the first symphonic prog album yet? ------------- "It's 1973, almost dinnertime and I'm 'aving 'oops!" - Gene Hunt |
Posted By: Sean Trane
Date Posted: May 27 2006 at 09:03
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Having just finished the book Beyond The Pale, Shine on Brightly was releasedin the UK in -dec 68, but released in the US in Sept 68 and Germany in oct 68
Still a fave track of mine, but on that album, thete is another real masterpiece: Skip Away My Moonbeams >> fantastic also
ooooooppss!!!!!!.............. wrong thread ------------- let's just stay above the moral melee prefer the sink to the gutter keep our sand-castle virtues content to be a doer as well as a thinker, prefer lifting our pen rather than un-sheath our sword |
Posted By: Soul Dreamer
Date Posted: May 29 2006 at 21:00
Well, I'm not shure but The Collectors released an epic in 1968 which is called "What Love (Suite)" which clocks at 19:15. It's in the archives and there's a review of Sean Trane
http://www.progarchives.com/Review.asp?id=64162 - http://www.progarchives.com/Review.asp?id=64162
In my opinion this is the first occurence of a full-blown symphonic rock epic (if it's before the Procol Harum and Nice tracks)
I have this on vinyl, but I bought it somewhere in the '70 and the album doesn't give a definite release date except 1968. I also tried to Google it but no result. There is one article about it in the net which is very interesting to read (and shows that these guys were really composing, not just jamming, when making this suite):
http://www.richieunterberger.com/collectors.html - http://www.richieunterberger.com/collectors.html
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Posted By: earlyprog
Date Posted: May 30 2006 at 03:49
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I'm definitely going to buy The Collectors, Soul Dreamer. Just haven't found it on amazon.co.uk yet. |
Posted By: Sean Trane
Date Posted: May 30 2006 at 04:03
You will love The Collectors >> Vanilla Fudge meets Moody Blues ------------- let's just stay above the moral melee prefer the sink to the gutter keep our sand-castle virtues content to be a doer as well as a thinker, prefer lifting our pen rather than un-sheath our sword |
Posted By: Sean Trane
Date Posted: May 31 2006 at 04:09
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http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=23988 - http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=23988 ------------- let's just stay above the moral melee prefer the sink to the gutter keep our sand-castle virtues content to be a doer as well as a thinker, prefer lifting our pen rather than un-sheath our sword |
Posted By: Progger
Date Posted: January 25 2007 at 23:04
And some people are still deluded in believin' that ITCOTKC was the first prog album?
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Posted By: Dick Heath
Date Posted: January 26 2007 at 07:22
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Have to wonder wrt the Electric Prunes 1967 Mass In F Minor - btw when did Arlo Guthrie release Alice's Restaurant?
------------- The best eclectic music on the Web,8-11pm BST/GMT THURS. CLICK ON: http://www.lborosu.org.uk/media/lcr/live.php - http://www.lborosu.org.uk/media/lcr/live.php Host by PA's Dick Heath. |
Posted By: earlyprog
Date Posted: January 26 2007 at 09:16
Alice's Restaurant Massacree (18:20) 1967 Arlo Guthrie "Alice's Restaurant". Exact release date?
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Posted By: earlyprog
Date Posted: January 26 2007 at 10:25
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I studied this subject briefly a while back, and here is what I found wrt long tracks. Some are obviously not prog but who knows what PA will add in the future. Seventh Sons, Zappa and The Doors are here so depending on the definition these could be argued as the having giving the first prog epic. Personally, I feel Procol Harum's "In Held T'was In I" is the first true prog epic, see the release date listed above. But you decide yourself:
Metamatic Ritual (13:56) 1962 Alan
Raga (32:09) recorded 1964 / released 1968 Seventh Sons “Raga (4 AM at Frank’s)” Desolation Row (11:24) 1965 Bob Dylan “Highway 61 Revisited” Sad Eyed Lady of the East-West (13:18) 1966 The Paul Butterfield Blues Band “East-West” Going Home (11:14) 1966 The Rolling Stones “Aftermath” The Return Of The Son Of Monster Magnet (12:17) 1966 Frank Zappa “Freak out!” The End (11:35) 1967 The Doors “The Doors” Interstellar Overdrive (16:46) 1967? Pink Floyd “Tonite let’s all make love in Nick's Boogie (11:50) recorded 1967 / released 1999 Pink Floyd “Pink Floyd London 1966-1967” Revelation (18:56) 1967 Love “Da Capo” When The Music's Over (11:00) 1967 The Doors “Strange Days” Viola Lee Blues (10:01) 1967 The Grateful Dead “The Grateful Dead” In-A-Gadda-Da-Vida (17:05) 1967 Iron Butterfly "In-a-Gadda-da-Vida" How Suite It Is (12:16) 1967 Jefferson Airplane “After Bathing At Baxter’s”. The Progress Suite (25:) 1967 Time has come today (11:) 1967 The Chamber Brothers. Fantasy (10:13) 1967 Fifty Foot Hose "Cauldron". Mass In F Minor (?:?) 1967 Electric Prunes. In held Twas in I (17:31) 1968 Procol Harum “Shine on Brightly” The Fool (12:07) 1968 Quicksilver Messenger Service "Quicksilver Messenger Service".
I Put My Hands On Your Shoulder (13:36) 1968 Groep 1850 "Agemo's Trip To Mother Earth".
1983...Merman I Should Turn To Be (13:46) 1068 The Jimi Hendrix Experience "Electric Ladyland".
Voodoo Child (15:05) 1968 The Jimi Hendrix Experience "Electric Ladyland".
Sister Ray (17:00) 1968 The Velvet Underground "White Light / White Heat".
River deep, Mountain high (10:12) 1968 Deep Purple “Book of Taliesyn” In the Stable of the Sphinx (11:10) recorded 1968 / released 2004 East Of Eden ”Mercator Projected” Ars Longa Vita Brevis suite (19.26) November 1968 The Nice “Ars Longa Vita Brevis” What Love (Suite) (19:15) 1968 The Collectors. Lumpy Gravy (31:39) 1968 Frank Zappa “Lumpy Gravy”. Dark Star (?:?) 1968 Grateful Dead "Two From The Vault".
Fried Neckbones (10:10) recorded 1968 / released 1997 Santana "Live At The Fillmore 1968"
Soul Sacrifice (14:30) recorded 1968 / released 1997 Santana "Live At The Fillmore 1968"
Freeway (30:15) recorded 1968 / released 1997 Santana "Live At The Fillmore 1968" |
Posted By: salmacis
Date Posted: January 26 2007 at 10:33
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^Excellent work, earlyprog, and a prime example of why I have shied away from what some do here in labelling albums or songs as 'the first prog album/epic/track' whatever. A whole host of tracks there which one would hardly expect on the site but could be justifiably said to have been influential to the development of the genre.
BTW, I seem to recall 'Mass In F Minor' was about 26 minutes or so. 
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Posted By: salmacis
Date Posted: January 31 2007 at 13:17
| I remember another one in my collection by The Seeds, a US garage/psych act, who did an epic called 'Up In Her Room' on their second album 'A Web Of Sound'. That track lasts 14.44 or so in its full form but I think also has been released in an edited form around 9 minutes. |
Posted By: Eetu Pellonpaa
Date Posted: February 02 2007 at 15:45
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The end sequence of this epic on their "Edmonton live" is just great!
If you want to check out one obscurer but a bit siilar and quite good epic try WIGWAM's "Henry's" from their 1st album "Hard'n'Horny".
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