A reviewer called 'Permanent Ink' has just given 'From Genesis To Revelation' *****'s. This is further proof that Genesis fan boys will go to any lenghs to clog up the prog archives charts with some of their sub-standard albums.

My sanity is intact and now I know I ain't paranoid!!!

Progger, the reviewer's name isn't "Permanent link"... it appears for all reviewers.

The review may not be great but he at least wrote his reasons and seemed honest to me. It's a matter of taste - I know people that prefer Britney Spears instead of Yes or Air Supply instead of Jethro Tull. What can I (we) do?

Progger, yes the Genesis fanboys are up to their old tricks, no doubt aided by Elvis in hiding and the Aliens at Area 51.

Please!

For God's sake, GET A LIFE....seems you stay all day checking Genesis reviews to shout corruption.

Sorry but in this case it would be stupid and futile mamipulation, From Genesis to the Revelation has 2.69 stars, the odds to reach a top 100 are infinitesimal. The guy will need at least 160 with 5 stars reviews to rise it to a 4 star average, and this is a lot of work.

As a matter of facts there are two reviewers (Both lucid) that give FGTTR 5 stars but:

• There are two reviewers that give Love Beach 5 stars and four that rate it with 4 stars
• SIX reviewers gave Big Generator by Yes 5 stars and at least EIGHT gave 4 stars
• From 119 reviews, 20% (TWENTY TWO REVIEWERS) gave 90125 the maximum rating of 5 stars.

Why don't you rise your loud and anti corruption voice against ELP and Yes fanboys????????

If you're going to fight corruption, it's ok, but if you're only going to attack Genesis and close your eyes on other bands....YOU ARE PART OF THE CORRUPTION (Which BTW exists only in your paranoic mind)

I honestly believe FGTTR is much more original and better than any of this albums.

Iván

BTW: Why don't you show us how to make reviews? I've seen none with your name, only by a Progger on 2004.

I love Genesis, but seriosusly WTF is wrong with you?

Do you thinkn we care so much that we are gonna rate this super high just to get them in the top 100 or something.

I'm sorry, we have lives unlike you.

Pleaee Trotsky, don't send it to the abuse section, just delete it.

Since Progger came here has only accused all the Administrators, Collaborators and reviewers of corruption without a single base except his dislike for Genesis and his incredible arrogance.

This is his classical style, he throws the stone or starts the fire and then dissapears he's a flamer (Close relative to trolls), he's not here to support his claims, probably he won't be here again for a couple of days.

Apparently he has never made a review or a biogaphy or anything for this forum but has the guts to criticize all of us.

THIS TWO REVIEWS ARE VALID, THERE'S NO ABUSE, LETS NOT SET THE FIRE FOR PROGGER TO COOK HIS FOOD.

PLEASE DELETE THIS SILLY THREAD.

Iván

Ivan,

I think the thread is better left in place, as it lets Progger see that he is in a minority of one with his opinion.

Easy Livin wrote: Ivan, I think the thread is better left in place, as it lets Progger see that he is in a minority of one with his opinion.

Easy Livin' [Great song BTW],

You know that I am not alone on this one. Quite a few posters recently have made comments on the same issues I raise!

You know as well as I and THE MAJORITY of prog fans that for Genesis to have 4 albums in any prog top ten is a joke when there are much worthy and superior albums.

I bet even Genesis members themselves would admit that they are not worthy. Tony Banks says that the only two 70's albums that he's proud of are 'Foxtrot' and 'Wind and Wuthering'! Sure I read that somewhere?

^^^^^^^^^^^^
Hang on a minute here

Although FGTR is not a masterpiece (but this is my opinion) , it does remain an album with plenty of charms and that review is seems justified. The fact that he mentions Strawbs's H&H is actually quite relevant too as I would say that this guy would also have some Moody Blues and some BJH albums on his desert island.  My guess is that he would also love early Traffic albums as well as Family's debut album Music In A Doll's House. I think it is possible for someone to actually prefer this album to most other Genesis and this proghead is the living proof. There are times when I think that Gabriel's voice has never been more beautyful than on that album.

but from his review, a four star rating would be more in touch with himself .

Progger,

Given that this is a prog site and that Genesis were a seminal prog band, it is surely inevitable that many of their albums will be highly rated by our members. You are fully entitled to your opinion of course, but you must accept that you are in the minority here.

It is unreasonable to question the sincerity of other people's ratings, simply because you do not agree with them.

Whether or not Banks said what you quote is irrelevant. His opinion of the band's work while interesting, carries no more weight than anyone else's.

Taste is taste. I have a good friend who really likes FGTR. Honestly, it happens! And I have to say, although I hated the album at the beginning, it grows on me through the years. I don't think it's very strange if every now and then someone comes along who really thinks FGTR is a 5 star album. 

I honestly rated FGTTR with 3 stars, I believe it's a pretty good album with decent songs (The best material was kept away by King).

Tony's piano is OUTSTANDING and Peter's voice IS BETTER THAN EVER, clear, pristine.

The album is naive OK I agree, but who am I to tell anybody how to rate an album?

• I won't give any Dream Theater album 5 stars, but I accept the right of the people who like their music to do so.
• Some people believe STYX is crap, buyt others rate their albums well
• Many people used to talk about Kansas as a second class AOR band, but lately I found a lot of members share my respect for them

Every person has his own taste, there's people who like King Crimson and there's people who like Britney Spears music, who are we to say one is right and the other is wrong?

BTW. PROOGER NOW THAT YOU ARE BACK AGAIN PLEASE ANSWER SOMETHING I ASKED YOU A WEEK AGO AND DON'T RUN:

As a matter of facts there are two reviewers (Both lucid) that give FGTTR 5 stars but:

• There are two reviewers that gave Love Beach by ELP 5 stars and four that rate it with 4 stars
• SIX reviewers gave Big Generator by Yes 5 stars and at least EIGHT gave 4 stars
• From 119 reviews, 20% (TWENTY TWO REVIEWERS) gave 90125 the maximum rating of 5 stars.

1. Why don't you rise your loud and anti corruption voice against ELP and Yes fanboys????????
2. If you're going to fight corruption, it's ok, but if you're only going to attack Genesis and close your eyes on other bands....YOU ARE PART OF THE CORRUPTION (Which BTW exists only in your paranoic mind)

But I'm sure you will go again.

Iván

He has gone again.

Answer!!!

Progger, probably the reviewer who gave 5 stars to FGTR will think the same of Yes and ELP fans and if you ask the opinion of a Rick Martin fan he/she will give no more than 1 star for all albums mentioned here.  

It's all a matter of personal taste. Not arguably.

Progger wrote: My response is quite simple. Even YES or ELP at their worse is far better than Genesis at their worst! Big Generator has great tracks  like 'Shoot High....' 'Final Eyes' 'Big Generator'. Love Beach has 'Canario'...ect. So I can excuse Yes and ELP fanboys if they want to rate those albums highly but Genesis at their worst......no way! Giving FGTR *****'s is just someone taking the piss!!!!!!

I suggest you to learn to accept others' opinions, which is why this site exists. It is naive to suspect that whenever a person disagrees with your opinion he is being corrupt. It is also rather biased, from my point of view, to close your eyes when a group's *worst* album gets 5 stars and just find a single album out of a thousand more just because you disagree with someone's opinion.

 -- Ivan

ivansfr0st wrote: Progger wrote: My response is quite simple. Even YES or ELP at their worse is far better than Genesis at their worst! Big Generator has great tracks  like 'Shoot High....' 'Final Eyes' 'Big Generator'. Love Beach has 'Canario'...ect. So I can excuse Yes and ELP fanboys if they want to rate those albums highly but Genesis at their worst......no way! Giving FGTR *****'s is just someone taking the piss!!!!!! I suggest you to learn to accept others' opinions, which is why this site exists. It is naive to suspect that whenever a person disagrees with your opinion he is being corrupt. It is also rather biased, from my point of view, to close your eyes when a group's *worst* album gets 5 stars and just find a single album out of a thousand more just because you disagree with someone's opinion.  -- Ivan

Ivan....is that you?

I do not have to accept others oppinions! If I did I would accept that Milosevic was innocent, that the holocaust never happened, that the moon landings were a conspiracy, that the......I think you get my point! We have to know how seperate the facts from the bullsh*t. That is why I will never believe that Genesis were a great prog band. A very good prog band who made very good albums but don't believe the hype!!!!!!

We are talking here about tastes not about behavior or philosophy. Would you change your mind if you discovered that Milosevic was a Yes fan?

For tastes, to accept others' preferences does not mean to adopt their preferences or to change our own.

Progger wrote: ivansfr0st wrote: Progger wrote: My response is quite simple. Even YES or ELP at their worse is far better than Genesis at their worst! Big Generator has great tracks  like 'Shoot High....' 'Final Eyes' 'Big Generator'. Love Beach has 'Canario'...ect. So I can excuse Yes and ELP fanboys if they want to rate those albums highly but Genesis at their worst......no way! Giving FGTR *****'s is just someone taking the piss!!!!!! I suggest you to learn to accept others' opinions, which is why this site exists. It is naive to suspect that whenever a person disagrees with your opinion he is being corrupt. It is also rather biased, from my point of view, to close your eyes when a group's *worst* album gets 5 stars and just find a single album out of a thousand more just because you disagree with someone's opinion.  -- Ivan Ivan....is that you? I do not have to accept others oppinions! If I did I would accept that Milosevic was innocent, that the holocaust never happened, that the moon landings were a conspiracy, that the......I think you get my point! We have to know how seperate the facts from the bullsh*t. That is why I will never believe that Genesis were a great prog band. A very good prog band who made very good albums but don't believe the hype!!!!!!

It is me... but it's not the other Ivan(do we even share the same name? His isn't spelt the same way, I think).

So many examples, not one that would suit this case! The site has been arranged so that many people would express their opinions. The site's admins aren't running around making such radical decisions as yours whether or not the review is right, if the reviewer expresses his point of view in an understandable way. The website isn't Nazi - everyone is entitled to his opinion! And who told you you were given the privilege of judging others?

I could go on about how much I disagree with people giving any ELP or Dream Theater albums more than three stars, but I won't be posting topics about it suspecting people of things considered offensive on the site. I suggest you to calm down, even if you are not willing to accept others' beliefs.

 -- Ivan

Progger wrote:

My response is quite simple. Even YES or ELP at their worse is far better than Genesis at their worst! Big Generator has great tracks  like 'Shoot High....' 'Final Eyes' 'Big Generator'. Love Beach has 'Canario'...ect. So I can excuse Yes and ELP fanboys if they want to rate those albums highly but Genesis at their worst......no way! Giving FGTR *****'s is just someone taking the piss!!!!!!

Who said written words doon't reveal your emotional state? When you get nervous you start to write in high case.

Cool down man, your heart will thank you.

One man's garbage is other man's treasure, I know a lot of people who think Grease and Saturday Night Fever were the musical icons of a decade, still TV Stations show those (IMO) aberrations every day. Who am I to tell they "Hey guys you're morons, that's not music", it's their taste and I must respect it, even if listening a minute of one of those albums gives me urthicaria.

Now, FGTTR is not a masterpiece, but it's a good effort for a bunch of kids, the melody is pretty decent plus Tony Bank's piano is outstanding. If you add that Peter's voice sounds wonderful, you got at least 3 stars.

Maybe (and I repeat MAYBE) Gig Generator is better than the worst Genesis albums...But does it deserve in your opinion 5 stars??????

Yes, Love Beach has Canario (A song ythat I like very much), but do you believe a four minutes track makes this aberration (recognized even by their most stubborn fans) worthy of a 5 stars rating??????

You clearly say you're ready to excuse Yes and ELP fanboys, what implies that Genesis fanboys don't deserve any mercy, they must burn in hell listening Big Generator and Love Beach Muzak version 24 hours a day.  

Answer me if those albums deserve 5, 4 or even 3 stars, ore  you always ready to forgive them (As oif they would care about it. ).

This is not objective, and believe me, you're not even a fanboy, you're a hateboy, your purpose in life is to destroy the image of Genesis, and belive me, this is not healthy, the frustration you will suffer  when you convince yourself it's impossible may cause you problems.

Iván

EDIT: No, -Ivanfr0st is not me, we share partially the name, because in Spanish we place accents. He's Ivan and I'm Iván (With accent in the a). I believe his name is pronounced Ívan  (With emphasis in the I) and my name is Iván (with emphasis in the a) the difference is that in Spanish we use visual accents.

Cool name Ivan

Yes, ELP, Genesis... Remember this?

http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=18211&KW=yes+fans+vs%2E+genesis - http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=18211& amp;KW=yes+fans+vs%2E+genesis

You can fight all you want... None of those bands will ever be a match for Pink Floyd...

Kotro wrote: Yes, ELP, Genesis... Remember this? http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=18211&KW=yes+fans+vs%2E+genesis - http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=18211& amp; amp;KW=yes+fans+vs%2E+genesis You can fight all you want... None of those bands will ever be a match for Pink Floyd...

No fight man, at least not from me, I couldn't answer with more tranquility, and I love Yes also, not in my top 5, but I believe they were also Icons of Prog.

And about Pink Floyd, you're absolutely entitled to your opinion, as a fact I see a lot of similarities between Gilmour and Hackett guitar style, both are the most atmospheric of the market.

Iván

Well, actually the emphasis in my name is on the 'a', since I come from a Russian/Ukrainian background. However, the first 'I' is pronounced like the English letter 'E'(like the 'i' in the word "grin"). I am not sure but I think that means we share the same name, just spelt differently.

Nice name Ivan.

 -- Ivan

ivansfr0st wrote: Well, actually the emphasis in my name is on the 'a', since I come from a Russian/Ukrainian background. However, the first 'I' is pronounced like the English letter 'E'(like the 'i' in the word "grin"). I am not sure but I think that means we share the same name, just spelt differently. Nice name Ivan.  -- Ivan

Yeah, it's the same name, only with an explicit accent in my case.

The Slavic name that coes from the Czech Republic is with emphasis in the I, being you from Latvia it was logical that your name followed the Russian - Ukranian pronuntiation.

Iván

BTW: Please one question, How in hell do you manage to use bold font in your reviews? I tried using the frequent ASCI code but it doesn't work.

BTW: Nice review about SIGH, I don't like the genre very much, but I'm tempted to listen the album.

Progger wrote:  That is why I will never believe that Genesis were a great prog band. A very good prog band who made very good albums but don't believe the hype!!!!!!

Ivan,

Does that post seem it was written by a Genesis hater???? Now it's you who is being paranoid

ivan_2068 wrote: ivansfr0st wrote: Well, actually the emphasis in my name is on the 'a', since I come from a Russian/Ukrainian background. However, the first 'I' is pronounced like the English letter 'E'(like the 'i' in the word "grin"). I am not sure but I think that means we share the same name, just spelt differently. Nice name Ivan.  -- Ivan Yeah, it's the same name, only with an explicit accent in my case. The Slavic name that coes from the Czech Republic is with emphasis in the I, being you from Latvia it was logical that your name followed the Russian - Ukranian pronuntiation. Iván BTW: Please one question, How in hell do you manage to use bold font in your reviews? I tried using the frequent ASCI code but it doesn't work. BTW: Nice review about SIGH, I don't like the genre very much, but I'm tempted to listen the album.

Strange, I didn't expect to get anyone interested so quickly, especially the old-school proggers. Well, that's nice! The codes in reviews go like this: <b> and </b> = and, <i> and </i> = and, <u> and </u> = and. <p> also adds a space. Actually, I am surprised you are asking me, I mean, how many times more reviews have you written?

I was serious about the Sigh being recommended to fans of 70's style symphonic prog because of the total keyboard domination throughout the album. I'm not sure you'd like the vocals though, they're rather cheesy.

 -- Ivan

Progger wrote: Progger wrote:  That is why I will never believe that Genesis were a great prog band. A very good prog band who made very good albums but don't believe the hype!!!!!! Ivan, Does that post seem it was written by a Genesis hater???? Now it's you who is being paranoid

Not necessarilly, but what about:

Note: All the quotes written by Genesis Hateboy aka Progger:

So I can excuse Yes and ELP fanboys if they want to rate those albums highly but Genesis at their worst......no way! Giving FGTR *****'s is just someone taking the piss!!!!!!

or:

It has become a joke and corrupts the charts! How else can you explain SEBTP to be at number two! It's not even Genesis's best album

or:

I'm glad someone else can see the corruption by the small minority of Genesis fans. And Yes, CTTE is far, far , far , far superior to SEBTP and any other Geneis album you care to mention!

What about:

Your oppinion isn't valid because it's wrong! Listen to some YES,ELP and CAMEL to really understand melody, emotions and atmospherics! Genesis were just a band of YES wannebes but never had the talent!!! This one is a hate post but ecven worst it's arrogant and  moronic  Genesis has a totally different approach to music han Yes

Not even Steve Hackett is safe from your irrational hate:

Ivan, Your talking nonesense again!  I've seen both Hackett and Howe in concert more times than I can remember and Howe is far, far superior. Remember I have spoken to someone who who has worked and recorded with both and He said Howe is a much better guitarist!  (The daughter of the first wife of Peter Gabriel's brother LMAO) Hackett would never have passed an audition with Yes! He's just not technically suitable!!!! No comments

But there's still more:

Please note everybody that my list is objective and the truth. Anybody who says different knows nothing about musicians and how music is constructed! Not only hateboy but arrogant.

Wasn't even hard to find them, no work at all, I just search for Progger and the hate posts start to fall as pelicans with Avian Flu

Iván

Ivan,

Even reading those posts don't make sound a Genesis hater, just being rational!

Even reading those posts don't make sound a Genesis hater, just being rational!

Iván

ivan_2068 wrote: Genesis hateboy (Progger) wrote: Even reading those posts don't make sound a Genesis hater, just being rational!   Iván

That's an argument winner.

No sarcasm, it really is, I wish I had those.

Peter wrote: zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz....

Give the old man a prod will ya....

Actually,I'm nodding off too.

Progger,why dont you.......

Progger wrote: Giving FGTR *****'s is just someone taking the piss!!!!!!

No what is taking the p*** is that this gentleman
Progger
Senior Member



Joined: April 26 2005
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 810

and this person:

raindance
Senior Member



Joined: May 24 2005
Location: United Kingdom
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 292

both post from the same PC.

Compare and contrast:

I think Progger has a point in this case. To give FGTR *****'s is a bit OTT to say the least   

from Raindance

with:

Giving FGTR *****'s is just someone taking the piss

from Progger

now if Mr Tales would just show up too we'd have the whole menage-a-trois!

 ... that is pretty pathetic, especially that time when "progger" waited a whole 10 minutes after "raindance" posted ...

Trotsky wrote:  ... that is pretty pathetic, especially that time when "progger" waited a whole 10 minutes after "raindance" posted ...

What is really pathetic is that this  guy shouted CORRUPTION!!!!!!!!!!!

He accused Owners, Administrators, Collaborators and Forum members as well as reviwers of supporting corruption.

Now we find he was the only one that could be accused of corruption.

What a pitty, I honestly enjoyed bashing him and there's the risk he won't come back  Well at leasr as Progger

Iván

Hm. That sounds like an excellent idea, progger! I think I should create multiple accounts, so that they would all respond to my posts and agree with me, which is crucial in keeping a person confident.

 -- Ivan

I agree Ivan, that's an amazing idea!