20 Live Pieces Released in the 1970s
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Category: Progressive Music Lounges
Forum Name: Prog Polls
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URL: http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=134752
Printed Date: April 14 2025 at 02:19
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Topic: 20 Live Pieces Released in the 1970s
Posted By: Logan
Subject: 20 Live Pieces Released in the 1970s
Date Posted: April 06 2025 at 16:03
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For this topic I took nine of my favourite live "prog" albums that were released in the the 1970s, plus one non-Prog (Douji Morita) one I love for variety, and went with a favourite track or piece. Then I went through the PA charts for the top love album of the 1970s there and choose a song/piece/ track off each live. PA's chart also has Ricochet and Hhai listed in it top ten 70s live albums, so I skipped those for its list, and Miles Davis' Black Magus would have been included had I not included another Miles Davis in my list. And second Zappa could have played in but I just wanted the one top ranked album per act. In the case of Tangerine Dream, while the original release at least has Ricochet in two tracks, I would rather have it in one and I have a video with both parts so doing it for both parts. Not sure how much of that album is "properly live" rather than studio, but it is listed as a live. For others like The Snow Goose portion of Camel's A Live Record, that could be treated like a suite, but I'm going with a favourite Camel part and it follows what I have found on youtube. And I could have gone with a more broken down version of ELP's. Solar Music Live can be thought of as a suite (and the track Solar Music has more than one part), but going with my favourite part, but had I found, say, all three of these parts on youtube, then I would have added that. While both Prog Archives and Rate Your Music rank Seconds Out higher than Genesis Live (Seconds out is ranked fifth for the 70s and Genesis live is at 22, I much prefer Genesis Live. With Renaissance, I adore Mother Russia and Scheherazade, but I like how different Ashes Are Burning is from the studio counterpart on this live. My top 10 Magma "Hhaï" Magma Live (released 1975) Tangerine Dream "Ricochet (parts 1 and 2)" Ricochet (released 1975) Area "Cometa rossa" Are(A)zione (released 1975) Hawkwind "Brainstorm" Space Ritual (released 1975) Geinoh Yamashirogumi "Osorezan" Live ''Hirakareta Gassho'' Junen No Tenkai (released 1979) Miles Davis "Prelude (Parts One and Two) Agharta (released 1975) Kraan "Lonesome Liftboy" Kraan Live (released 1975) Gong "Master Builder" Live Etc (released 1977) Henry Cow "Beautiful as the Moon, Terrible as an Army with Banners" Concerts (released 1976) Douji Morita "Sentimental Street センチメンタル通り" Tokyo Cathedral Saint Mary Live (released 1978) (not in PA) PA's Top Ten (nit including any that found its way into my top ten) Gentle Giant "So Sincere" Playing the Fool - The Official Live (released 1977) Grobschnitt "Solar Music II" Solar Music - Live (released 1978)* Yes "Heart of the Sunrise" Yessongs (released 1973) Frank Zappa "Be-Bop Tango (Of The Old Jazzmen's Church)" Roxy & Elsewhere (released 1974) Genesis "Firth of Fifth" Seconds Out (released 1977)* Camel "La Princesse Perdue" A Live Record (released 1978) Kansas "Song for America" Two for the Show (released 1978) Emerson Lake & Palmer "Karn Evil 9 (i. 1st Impression, ii. 2nd Impression, iii. 3rd Impression)" Welcome Back My Friends to the Show That Never Ends (released 1974) Renaissance "Ashes Are Burning" Live at Carnegie Hall (released 1976) Barclay James Harvest "Summer Soldier" Barclay James Harvest Live (Live, 1974) Multiple choice enabled: Please try to vote for five tracks if you can, but more or less is fine too. Also I would like to hear about other 70s songs/tracks/pieces off live releases that you enjoy either if they are different songs from the albums I chose or different albums altogether. Here is a playlist with all of the selections in the poll. You don't need to check any of this out before voting, or know much to vote, but some might wish to (all tracks can be found at least in my region in the embed). https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLXcp9fYc6K4Jn6zs8EixYpfhOsQQxE3mk" rel="nofollow - https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLXcp9fYc6K4Jn6zs8EixYpfhOsQQxE3mk ------------- "Questions are a burden to others; answers a prison for oneself" (The Prisoner, 1967). |
Replies:
Posted By: Logan
Date Posted: April 06 2025 at 16:33
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The top ten are all loved by me, and of the other ten Camel's Live Record and the Renaissance has meant the most to me. The one I barely knew (or remembered) live that impressed me the most is the ELP. I actually love this live and so my icy heart has warmed to ELP again (I always liked the debut and certain music off Trilogy at least). That Gentle Giant album I once liked considerably but is hard going for me now. I do like early era Gentle Giant playing the most (first few albums). GG can get too show-offy for me. Used to like that Solaris album, and still love my choice of track, but not keen on the vocals generally and the album sounds quite cheesy to me now on the whole. And I don't know about that Genesis, sounds too slick to me. I prefer Gabriel era live Genesis, and Gabriel-era Genesis generally. Yessongs was a nice listen and I went with one of the Yes songs that has meant the most to me . Of my top ten, returning to (Are(A)zione) was the highlight. It has been a while and Area is just so good. I have a much better quality album version of that Geinoh Y..., but I do not wish to upload. ------------- "Questions are a burden to others; answers a prison for oneself" (The Prisoner, 1967). |
Posted By: Psychedelic Paul
Date Posted: April 06 2025 at 16:43
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1. Renaissance - Ashes Are Burning 2. Barclay James Harvest - Summer Soldier 3. Genesis - Firth of Fifth 4. Yes - Heart of the Sunrise 5. Tangerine Dream - Ricochet
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Posted By: Mellotron Storm
Date Posted: April 06 2025 at 21:00
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I have such fond memories of my time with that Area album. Voted for that along with Magma and Kraan. I then voted for the two classic symphonic tracks by Genesis and Yes. ------------- "The wind is slowly tearing her apart" "Sad Rain" ANEKDOTEN |
Posted By: Octopus II
Date Posted: April 07 2025 at 00:11
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Hawkwind - Brainstorm ELP - Karn Evil 9 Gentle Giant - So Sincere Tangerine Dream "Ricochet (parts 1 and 2)
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Posted By: Big Sky
Date Posted: April 07 2025 at 01:06
| ELP: Karn Evil 9. Such a great piece of music. Love this live version. |
Posted By: Rick1
Date Posted: April 07 2025 at 03:01
| What a great selection. My first love has to be ELP closely followed by Henry Cow (lucky to see them do this live early 77). Love that Magma track as well but discovered much later in life. |
Posted By: moshkito
Date Posted: April 07 2025 at 06:32
Hi, Strange to see this listed and the piece right after "Medicine Man" left behind ... it should be the whole side or it won't matter. That version of MM is fantastic. ------------- Music is not just for listening ... it is for LIVING ... you got to feel it to know what's it about! Not being told! www.pedrosena.com |
Logan wrote:Posted By: moshkito
Date Posted: April 07 2025 at 06:42
Hi, Never thought of it as a touched up piece, specially at the time, however, I think that it was rushed out to try and take the shine off the number of bootlegs on TD at the time, since we knew that they could not quite duplicate things on stage, and all their early shows were quite different, until a bit later during Stratosfear when they finally had better equipment, instead of more gorillas on stage! By that time, if you can believe it, I had 4 boots of their stuff and it was all excellent, regardless ... however, I will have to listen to Ricochet again (haven't heard it in 100 years!) and see what I can remember. I kinda wish I still had those boots, though it seems like their Eastgate Music Group has already released a lot of that early live stuff ... and not waste it in the long run! However, I have to admit that I have not heard many of those early releases by the band's grouping. There is a certain feeling I get from that group these days, that is not on par with the music, and the art ... and I can not exactly put my ginfer on it! I imagine that the Eastgate Music Group TD folks don't want it all released, as it will take away from the vastly inferior work they are doing ... and not releasing the evening series they have (long cuts with visuals) almost all of them being really good and more TD than the current version ever will be, which is too mechanical and metallic (equipment ... ) for me!
------------- Music is not just for listening ... it is for LIVING ... you got to feel it to know what's it about! Not being told! www.pedrosena.com |
Posted By: Mormegil
Date Posted: April 07 2025 at 06:53
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Genesis - Firth of Fifth Yes - Heart of the Sunrise Renaissance - Ashes are Burning ------------- Welcome to the middle of the film. |
Posted By: Jared
Date Posted: April 07 2025 at 08:35
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Blimey.... a poll from Greg where I could have voted for half of them!! TD > Grobschnitt (CANNOT believe that mine was the first vote... what is WRONG with you people?) > Renaissance > Yes > GG ------------- Music has always been a matter of energy to me. On some nights I believe that a car with the needle on empty can run 50 more miles if you have the right music very loud on the radio. Hunter S Thompson |
Posted By: Mirakaze
Date Posted: April 07 2025 at 08:45
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Welcome Back My Friends is my absolute favourite live album and the version of Karn Evil 9 is an undiluted delight but the version of So Sincere on Playing The Fool is really beautiful also and deserves to be mentioned as a great expansion on the original. Be-Bop Tango starts off fantastic but I could personally do without most of the audience participation section . ------------- https://mirasnelder.wordpress.com/" rel="nofollow - Freelance composer, accepting commissions | https://mirasnelder.bandcamp.com/album/altered-acuity" rel="nofollow - Bandcamp page |
Posted By: Logan
Date Posted: April 07 2025 at 09:53
Thanks all. ^ yes, I went with the Zappa loving the beginning and thinking some find it interesting due to the audience reaction when going through the playlist, but I could do without that too.
Of course I am happy to see people try to vote for five from the list if they can (or more or less) and mention any other choices. I actually find it quite strange that you would expect those two tracks to be listed together as an option given my approach. Strange would have I think equalled, "Given what I know of your approach, and how you tend to do things, and maybe based on what music you are most into, I would have expected such-and-such." Not sure why given my approach it "should" be as you say, and I hope you take the time to enlighten me. But I guess you just mean, that it looked strange to you, maybe not based on what seems most obviously rational given the premise. They seem to be separate songs to me and even come from different studio albums. And I have not looked for video which combines the two as one song. What's strange-looking to me about my poll, which maybe I should have delved more deeply into in my OP so people would understand better what I was going for and then be less likely to find the results strange, but already it risks being "too long, didn't read" is that some of these which can be treated as one piece (like an epic) or a suite is that in some cases I have releases where the piece or suite was broken up on albums and I have it in full form, whereas in others I have part of it. I have a piece of The Snow Goose, but both parts of Ricochet. I could have gone with a broken up version of Osorezan under different track names but it is one epic and I have a video with the whole live epic.. I did tie that in with the playlist and what I found that I could or wanted to work with. While I like to listen to full album, including full live albums, a problem with making a playlist with such long videos as I have is that it makes it harder for people to find the time to listen to what already is there (as some tasters based on my tastes)). BY the way, of course the top ten were my particular choices and the PA charts determined the other ten. Three of those in PA's top ten I knew quite well, the BJH live was new to me. Based on one listen to it, I was happy with my choice and never would have thought to put all of side one together as piece of music in two sections or as a suite. Maybe I don;t see as much connection between these tracks as you do. Maybe I should have just done this as individual tracks to avoid any confusion, and I guess I'm not really following your argument based on my OP for why those two should be combined. Of course the easiest way it just to do albums, but this exercise is more challenging and individualistic for me and I like to do things differently. Maybe I should listen again to those two tracks to hear how they work together as this was based on one spin of the album. Or maybe my intent/ thinking did not come through well enough in the OP. Even as is, this poll took quite a few hours to foment. Sorry if it turned out badly or strangely. Anyway, hopefully someone will discover something they like thanks to this and find some music that they enjoy from the list and mention others that they like (in that case, embeds or links to youtube are much appreciated). If it seems illogical given my approach not to include all of side A for BJH, well then that probably just comes down to my ignorance. ------------- "Questions are a burden to others; answers a prison for oneself" (The Prisoner, 1967). |
Posted By: verslibre
Date Posted: April 07 2025 at 11:33
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Tangerine Dream, Ricochet, straight to the top. ii. ELP "KE9" (WBMFttSTNE) iii. Kansas "Song for America" (TftS) iv. Yes, "Heart of the Sunrise" (Yessongs) v. Grobschnitt, "Solar Music II" (SM-L) vi. Frank Zappa, "Be-Bop Tango..." (RoE) vii. Hawkwind, "Brainstorm" (SR) viii. Genesis, "Firth of Fifth" (SO) ix. Miles Davis, "Prelude" (Agharta) x. Camel, "La Princesse Perdue" (ALR) ------------- https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_ipg=50&_sop=1&_rdc=1&_ssn=musicosm" rel="nofollow - eBay |
Posted By: verslibre
Date Posted: April 07 2025 at 11:34
I was late.  ------------- https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_ipg=50&_sop=1&_rdc=1&_ssn=musicosm" rel="nofollow - eBay |
Posted By: Jared
Date Posted: April 07 2025 at 11:40
 ------------- Music has always been a matter of energy to me. On some nights I believe that a car with the needle on empty can run 50 more miles if you have the right music very loud on the radio. Hunter S Thompson |
Posted By: Lewian
Date Posted: April 07 2025 at 11:46
| So much good stuff! Ashes are Burning was my first impulse, so I'll vote for that, and then dunno. I may well come back voting for more as there are certainly more than five worth voting for. |
Posted By: Jared
Date Posted: April 07 2025 at 11:48
The whole of the first side of BJH Live 1974, with SS rolled into Medicine Man is an excellent performance and in both cases, definite improvements on their respective studio versions... I'm pleased you included them and I could have quite easily voted for them (maybe I should have done so, as Yes will always garner votes anyway). ------------- Music has always been a matter of energy to me. On some nights I believe that a car with the needle on empty can run 50 more miles if you have the right music very loud on the radio. Hunter S Thompson |
Posted By: Jared
Date Posted: April 07 2025 at 11:50
I always find it very difficult not to vote for a piece of prime Renaissance in these polls, as I never feel they get quite the amount of love they deserve... ------------- Music has always been a matter of energy to me. On some nights I believe that a car with the needle on empty can run 50 more miles if you have the right music very loud on the radio. Hunter S Thompson |
Posted By: Jared
Date Posted: April 07 2025 at 11:58
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jo7xLEmdD2U" rel="nofollow - Gnidrolog - I could never be a soldier (live) Off the Live 1972 album.... a great version at 13.20 ------------- Music has always been a matter of energy to me. On some nights I believe that a car with the needle on empty can run 50 more miles if you have the right music very loud on the radio. Hunter S Thompson |
Posted By: Logan
Date Posted: April 07 2025 at 12:22
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Thanks Jared and Lewian et al. I really liked hearing both of those BJH live tracks. Of the two tracks, not only had I not heard the lives before yesterday, of the two I actually had only known the studio version of Medicine Man before. As for Renaissance's "Ashes Are Burning". Ashes Are Burning is one of my very favourite Renaissance tracks, and I love how much this live varies from the studio version. I commonly favour lives that had not been released on studio albums before, where the live differs considerably from the studio versions, and just generally where it is a unique performance. Both the studio and this live are each brilliant in their own ways, as well as in the ways they are the same/ overlap. That could be phrased better. As for the Gnidrolog, I love the studio version of I Could Never Ba a Soldier (A fave song of mine) and am checking out that live version now. Thanks.  ------------- "Questions are a burden to others; answers a prison for oneself" (The Prisoner, 1967). |
Posted By: someone_else
Date Posted: April 07 2025 at 12:38
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I could vote for about half of this selection. My picks: Magma Tangerine Dream Henry Cow Yes Kansas ------------- 
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Posted By: Rick1
Date Posted: April 07 2025 at 13:21
| Henry Cow's contribution is in fact a BBC Radio 1 session so not recorded in front of an audience as such. From the Concerts album then I would go with 'Ruins'. |
Posted By: Logan
Date Posted: April 07 2025 at 13:46
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^ Thanks, I had forgotten about that. I almost went with "Ruins". ------------- "Questions are a burden to others; answers a prison for oneself" (The Prisoner, 1967). |
Posted By: moshkito
Date Posted: April 07 2025 at 21:57
Hello, Hahaha ... as if I knew anything about my approach ... it changes with music and words and poetry and paintings, and life ... every day! 
They are two separate songs but in the LP they went back to back and I don't think there was a time when myself, or Guy for that matter, did not play the whole side because it was such a treat ... the two pieces are kinda connected in the LP. They probably would not be on a CD, where I have seen many things that really hurt the music!
Hi, At this time, we are way too much indoctrinated into a commercially sounding design and the list of songs, and lists of lists, are more about the numbers (sometimes) than they are about the music, and I'm glad that I have had a sock full of custard that I threw at the wall many times here, because the lists did not have enough artists and instead had the same folks several times, which suggest ... to me ... that folks were not listening to a lot of music at all! I'm very glad to see that this has helped the lists big time!!! My take is, that it is the artists' music that matters, and if it was not broken up, and should not be made to be a "song" ... like the record company did for CTTE and TAAB and many other long things ... it was disgusting to say the least and insulting ... like our generation could not be creative and original and compose excellent works ... but the record companies came up with the excuse that most radio stations would not play the whole thing ... that only happened after the Great American FM Radio Rape at the end of the 1970's when corporate bought all the independent FM stations so they would no longer play new stuff, or at least the different stuff the record companies wanted radio to support. And FM radio has been crap since then ... and some folks actually think that Radio Kaos awas a joke ... it wasn't ... and it was the kind of thing that led to FM radio to be taken off the air and replaced with "rock classics" ... the same twenty pieces on a rotation! And bands that the record companies had some financial interest in ... you won't hear Grateful Dead anymore in those stations ... but they were huge before that and a massive staple on many a station ... and folks still go to see what's left of the band in Las Vegas ... if that is not some endurance and the sign of great musical works, then we are not listening or give a damn about music! I kinda think that the record companies never grew out of the dislike for The GD giving away live music ... and yet, the band made much more money and appreciation than any record company out there ... maybe except ECM, I suppose! Or possibly Blue Note, both that survived regardless of what a record company thought and did! And made it and are remembered for it!
------------- Music is not just for listening ... it is for LIVING ... you got to feel it to know what's it about! Not being told! www.pedrosena.com |
Posted By: octopus-4
Date Posted: April 08 2025 at 09:47
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I was about to vote for Ricochet when I have seen Ashes Are Burning ------------- I stand with Roger Waters, I stand with Joan Baez, I stand with Victor Jara, I stand with Woody Guthrie. Music is revolution |
Posted By: Logan
Date Posted: April 08 2025 at 09:56
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^ You can vote for as many as you like (multiple choice). And I just noticed that I asked the wrong question for the poll, that should have been "pieces" not albums. I lost the topic when I first tried to post it and chose the wrong cached question. ------------- "Questions are a burden to others; answers a prison for oneself" (The Prisoner, 1967). |
Posted By: Jared
Date Posted: April 08 2025 at 11:00
Trying to be too clever for your own good Greg... you need to try harder to appeal to PA's lowest common denominator... ie me!! ------------- Music has always been a matter of energy to me. On some nights I believe that a car with the needle on empty can run 50 more miles if you have the right music very loud on the radio. Hunter S Thompson |
Posted By: Logan
Date Posted: April 08 2025 at 11:18
"Trying" is the operative word. And Jared, I might fancifully say that you're the greatest common divisor. :D The greatest common factor in this is that I commonly make mistakes as it does get overly complicated and I do often lose my posts/ topics. I should simplify. And I wish I could think of some more creative topics that don't involve polls. Easy to get stuck in certain ruts. :) I think I need some more hobbies. ------------- "Questions are a burden to others; answers a prison for oneself" (The Prisoner, 1967). |
Posted By: MortSahlFan
Date Posted: April 08 2025 at 13:58
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Renaissance "Ashes Are Burning" (Live at Carnegie Hall) ------------- https://www.youtube.com/c/LoyalOpposition https://www.scribd.com/document/382737647/MortSahlFan-Song-List |
Posted By: Lewian
Date Posted: April 08 2025 at 14:49
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What a great showcase for 70s prog this is - there are many albums here that I'd choose over every studio album of these bands. I'll add votes for two things that I hadn't heard before and that are both very strong, that is the Area and Geinoh Yamashirogumi. I have two votes left and I'll be a bit nostalgic here, voting for two albums that at some point in my youth, maybe half a year each, were my favourite albums, namely Riocochet and Solar Music. I love the Kraan Live album, but for me you haven't picked the best track there, same Playing the Fool and BJH, whereas the Grobschnitt one is well selected, as are many others, Gong, Hawkwind, Camel in particular (not so obvious this one), how splendid!
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Posted By: rik wilson
Date Posted: April 08 2025 at 17:52
| Gentle Giant |
Posted By: Logan
Date Posted: April 08 2025 at 19:35
I'm super glad you found music not that only were you keen on, but discovered new music to appreciate. Your post really put a smile on my face. Thank you.  That Area is a very good album, and really happy you liked Osorezan live. I got to appreciate some music here, or appreciate music here more, that I did not know or at least did not know well as I had not heard it many years from the bottom ten (some of those were already 70s live favourite albums of mine). Vive le lives! ------------- "Questions are a burden to others; answers a prison for oneself" (The Prisoner, 1967). |
Posted By: Big Sky
Date Posted: April 08 2025 at 21:32
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I missed that this was multiple choice. As I posted originally, ELP takes top spot. Next four: Yes Kansas Camel Genesis Love the studio and live versions of the tracks from each of these bands. |
Posted By: Awesoreno
Date Posted: April 08 2025 at 22:22
| Jazz isn't dead, it just smells funny. |
Posted By: richardh
Date Posted: April 08 2025 at 23:21
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I tend to think that the drum solo drags down the live version of KE9, also it's played in a lower key compared to the album as Greg Lake's vocals were already taking a hit due to excessive smoking despite the short amount of time. I would venture that the live versions of Hoedown, Toccata and Tarkus are better than the studio versions. Tarkus with that extended synth end section is one of the most glorious things they ever did. IMO I also prefer other tracks off the live albums especially Yours Is No Disgrace from Yessongs. That gets really heavy compared to the studio version. Howe is incredible on that. Heart Of The Sunrise will always sound better with Bruford playing on it for me. Doesn't the version of Firth Of Fifth on Seconds Out miss out the piano intro? I would go for Cinema Show on that album if it was me. Collins and Thompson together take that piece to whole new level. On GG's Playing The fool I would go for Funny Ways. It goes all sorts of crazy! I like Excerpts from Octopus as well. So Sincere is fine though
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Posted By: Logan
Date Posted: April 09 2025 at 10:24
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^ Those first three albums you mention I had not heard before, at least in full, and I can't say that I listened to them all as completely as perhaps I should. Only 14 or so were well known to me at any time and other than my top ten I had not listened to the albums (the others from PA's list) in full that I knew for many years. I had heard the GG, but not for almost 20 years. I may not be the biggest fan of ELP, but I loved listening to that version of KE9. It's not a record I had heard before, but that is the one that most stood out to me. Tarkus would have been my other choice, but KE9 got my interest more-so. Were I to try both now for a second listen then I might well feel differently. Yessongs I was a bit slapdash with, and ended up just going with a Yes song that has been one of my very favourite Yes tracks. Fragile was a very important album to me in my youth and I adored Heart of the Sunrise except for the wonky bits. As for Genesis, yeah not the wonderful piano, which is a highlight of the studio album for me. Not sure why I went with that. I don't like that version much or the album much generally. Cinema Show is my favourite Genesis track outside of The Lamb Lies Down on Broadway (the Lamb is the only Genesis album I ever have really deeply cared about). After quickly going through the album again on youtube (scanning/ scrubbing), my choice is still the one that seems most listenable to me from that album despite preferring the studio version, and I like the energy it starts with with Collins vocals. I prefer Gabriel-era Genesis, and I prefer Genesis Live to this despite missing out on most of my favourite Genesis songs. Collins' era Genesis is often too slick for me, AORish, although I love music off A Trick of the Tail Wind and Wuthering. As for Gentle Giant, I came very close to going with Funny Ways but ended up finding this So Sincere version more interesting at the time. And "So Sincere" has been one of my very favrite songs by Gentle Giant (I like its quirkiness). Those Octupus excerpts have been another standout for me. The album does not connect with me now as much as it used to. Side-note (tangential): When I joined PA I was huge on GG, and I still love the first three albums especially, but very rarely have listened to GG in many years. PFM and Magma took over from My GG obsession back then, and of those Magma is the one that I still really big on. And I discovered VdGG at the same time as GG and used to say that I prefer my GG without the VD, but it's VdGG that I have kept returning to -- has had more staying power for me/ means more to me. But Three Friends and Acquiring the Taste are wondrous and I could very happily play those right now. :) ------------- "Questions are a burden to others; answers a prison for oneself" (The Prisoner, 1967). |
Posted By: moshkito
Date Posted: April 09 2025 at 12:06
Hi, I've always thought that the comment was more a satire on the folks that listen to it, and at times, the attitude that jazz is superior music to the last macaroni and cheese! And played by people that (supposedly) know music way better than rock musicians, many of which (as the joke goes) know 3 chords and that's it, and the drummer can only do the same thing in three different time sequences ... but t never changes otherwise! But there are some things in the jazz area that are very tough to listen to ... the ones that are totally free form, and just an excuse to do anything ... and I tend to think of them as folks that don't know music, and don't need to know music, and all of a sudden it is hard to not think that music is about knowing 2 or 3 things, not going crazy or go all over with no rhyme or reason!
------------- Music is not just for listening ... it is for LIVING ... you got to feel it to know what's it about! Not being told! www.pedrosena.com |
Posted By: Lewian
Date Posted: April 09 2025 at 12:10
Yeah, I don't just like these two, they are brutally good! (I wasn't aware of the Area live album even though I actually have seen Area (or rather Fariselli's recent Area Open Project) live, playing Arbeit Macht Frei and other things.
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Posted By: Heart of the Matter
Date Posted: April 09 2025 at 17:38
| Yes. The bassline grows more dynamic than ever, the vocals are breathtaking. |
Posted By: richardh
Date Posted: April 09 2025 at 22:03
I'm not a big fan of Seconds Out either, generally official live albums by Genesis are not great for me. I only ever go back to Live In London 1980 but that is technically a bootleg but that is the last time I can take them seriously as it comes on the Duke tour and includes the 'Duke Suite' fully intact. That is sweet! Also a rare encore version of The Knife is spectacular ( and without the annoying whistling on the earlier 'Live'). I actually think Genesis became a better live band without Gabriel but that may just be a 'hot take'. I'm being perhaps a bit nitpicky on the ELP and Yes comments but I do prefer the bootleg radio broadcast of them playing Karn Evil 9 1st Impression on the 1973 Italian tour to that from Anaheim that is on the live triple. No drum solo! When they toured later in the seventies the drum solo was put back into Tank and that seemed a better choice (although by that time they were only playing a short excerpt from KE9 and that never changed hence) Gentle Giant are just a very annoying band for me. I love various tracks from them across their first seven albums but they always seem to be a band that doesn't know itself or what it wants to be. In the end they just faded away and without the internet could easily be the most forgotten band of the seventies. When I first started posting on forums ( i guess late 90's early 00's) I just marvelled at where all these Gentle Giant nuts that had seemingly just sprung out of the woodwork. Where were they when the band needed them back in the seventies?! Undoubtedly VDGG should have been a huge band. They were almost too good perhaps. If any band stands the test of time then its them. PFM were great for 3 releases but it seems common now to knock those English language versions of the albums although Greg Lake and Peter Sinfield were fans and genuinely tried to bring them to a wider audience. At least they got played on UK radio and had a small following here. Per Un Amico remains one of the classic prog albums and might even perhaps be the most well known 'Non English' album ever?! Magma? no clue, never went there but I am well aware of the insane talent of Christian Vander. One day who knows
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Posted By: Big Sky
Date Posted: April 10 2025 at 01:23
Richard, I usually agree with many of your takes, but not on this one. Seconds out is awesome. And the album cover is awesome too. Love Palmer's solo on KE9 off of Welcome Back. That whole album is great. Wish the Production was better. Aquatarkus off that album is sublime. Yessongs is great too. Better production is the only thing it lacks. Performances are first rate. Yes was firing on all cylinders. I agree that Yours is No Disgrace might be the better selection, but that is a real nitpick. I did my part for Gentle Giant, discovering them a year after they called it a day. First bought Three Friends, which has been a top 10 prog album from the first time I listened to that album. Bought pretty much their whole discography in short order. Later in the 90s I bought the CDs to those albums. I only hold Giant for a Day against them ( No I did not buy the CD of Giant for a Day). One of my very favorite bands. VDGG I have a few albums. I don't hold them in as high of regard as you and many others on this site. I do have an appreciation of the band. Kind of like Zappa. Respect them more than I like them. I can see why they did not make it big and it's not because they were to good. |
Posted By: Rick1
Date Posted: April 11 2025 at 04:57
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Very little is mentioned about the Second Impression of KE9; I don't think I have the musical vocabulary to do it justice but the piano trio work is breathtaking - all three on top of their game and it sounded great on the live version (I guess the predominant use of piano makes the overall sound less 'muddy'). On the other hand, it is now well known that Banks did not want any improvisation live and this is why 'Seconds Out' sounds more sterile compared, say, to 'Welcome Back'. That said, much as I love Collins as a drummer, Chester and Bruford both add something (Banks was not happy with Bruford, allegedly).
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Posted By: Big Sky
Date Posted: April 11 2025 at 10:18
Rick, I am a big fan of the 2nd Impression too. Taken as a standalone track, it's one of the best 4-5 pieces of music that ELP did in their career. Bruford has commented on his time with Genesis. I'm paraphrasing here, but Bruford has stated he should have played Genesis more as it was done on the studio releases, which is what a true studio musician would have done. Bruford was being Bruford during his time with Genesis. |
Posted By: richardh
Date Posted: April 11 2025 at 23:36
| I don't think 2nd or 3rd Impression are better on the live versions. 3rd Impression might be better as Palmer plays much better on that compared to the studio version where he seems to go off the rails slightly. Emerson had a hard time teaching him what was needed and I think it needed to be played live to truly flesh out what was great about the track. The Cal Jam version is even better and that was ELP truly at their very peak. IMO |
Posted By: Dellinger
Date Posted: April 13 2025 at 16:17
| Ashes are Burning. For me the live version of Heart of the Sunrise that makes me like the song better than any other version is the Evening of Yes Music one. And the live version of Firth of Fifth without the piano intro (as well as the flute solo changed to keyboards) just loses its greatness, even if I do prefer the vocals on the Seconds Out version. |