In defense of Works
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Forum Description: General progressive music discussions
URL: http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=134531
Printed Date: March 01 2025 at 04:40
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Topic: In defense of Works
Posted By: Nergdnur Ddot
Subject: In defense of Works
Date Posted: February 27 2025 at 08:39
| I genuinely think Piano Concerto No. 1 and Pirates are amazing songs. I don't get all the hate for this album. Is it because of the songs in-between? |
Replies:
Posted By: Rick1
Date Posted: February 27 2025 at 09:50
| ELP tend to be knocked by the prog purists - I've got used to it over the decades. I was really excited when this album came out (I assume you are talking about Vol. 1) and agree with your selection. I found Lake's side the weakest but Palmer's The Enemy God and the reworking of Tank are outstanding and sounded great live. (So does 'Pirates'). My only moan is that they did not tour the UK when it came out and I had to wait many years until I saw them live. |
Posted By: richardh
Date Posted: February 27 2025 at 10:12
| For my money it's typical of most double albums of the decade. About 80% is great but that other 20% could be left off. Piano Concerto No 1 and Pirates are solid. Do I need a whole side of Lake/Sinfield songs (no!) and there are at least 2 tracks on Carl Palmer's side that are self indulgent nonsense. Fanfare For The Common Man could have been left off the album altogether (apparently Keith Emerson was of that opinion as it didn't really fit the orchestral remit but he was overruled by Atlantic records) although admittedly I love it. Works Vol's 1 and 2 could have been organised a little better maybe? I rate it about 3 stars out of 5 but even the best version is not as good as Trilogy or BSS imo. |
Posted By: verslibre
Date Posted: February 27 2025 at 12:37
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Both volumes are worth having if you dig ELP. ------------- https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_ipg=50&_sop=1&_rdc=1&_ssn=musicosm" rel="nofollow - eBay |
Posted By: Hosydi
Date Posted: February 27 2025 at 12:58
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It was evident that ELP had lost its inventiveness after Brain Salad Surgery and a tiring tour. They chose to have a double LP with each member contributing a side and the last side being a collaborative effort, instead of a one-disc album where they perform as a group. And the result of such a decision is probably the most terrible double-LP album in the history of the genre. Only Lake's material has some lovely moments as well as parts with him on the vocals on Pirates. Love Beach, despite its awful sleeve design, is a masterpiece album in comparison with Works.
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Posted By: meAsoi
Date Posted: February 27 2025 at 20:36
| I don't hate whoever made Emerson, Lake & Palmer make "Love Beach" due to contractual obligations, because if he hadn't, we would have had "Works Vol. 2" as the last ELP album. For me, "Love Beach" is a far better album than "Works Vol. 1" despite its ugly album cover because, in my opinion, "Love Beach" could be seen as a worthy late 70s compromise between beautiful progressive pop and first-class prog rock. On the other side, "Works Vol. 1" is a megalomaniacal double LP that failed in its basic idea of the solo escapades of the three. It only showcases a fact that Keith Emerson never reached the class of the finest classical composers. |
Posted By: richardh
Date Posted: February 27 2025 at 23:33
There was a 3 year gap between BSS and Works so I don't think the World Tour of 1973/74 had much to do with it. They wanted to release 3 solo albums but the record company wouldn't allow it so they had to compromise. Carl Palmer had the most interesting material and along with his excellent Percussion concerto (composed by Joseph Horowitz) could have put out a strong legit solo album. Lake had a had a hit with his Xmas record and had some recognition as a solo artist but he wasn't prolific as far as writing songs go so a full album would have been tricky. Emerson was very much tied to the band but eventually put out some excellent solo albums in the 80's. One of the good things that came out of Works (more specifically the tour) was the link up with orchestral conductor Godfrey Salmon. Salmon helped with the arrangements of Inferno and Nighthawks. For Works Emerson had used John Mayer who was the leader of the London Philharmonic and who had also orchestrated the 1972 track Abaddons Bolero. He did a fine job imo. Works had a reason for existing and made some sense at least. Love Beach was poorly conceived and none of the excitement or inspiration that made the band what it was was there anymore. It's hard to take an album that includes A Taste Of My Love seriously. If it was meant ironically then we could have laughed but actually it was meant to be serious. Works is at least listenable and Fanfare For The Common Man was and still is a very unique sounding piece of music. That carried the last vestige of magic that once surrounded the band. Ultimately they were pretty much done by 1974 in terms of creative ideas and should have stopped then (yes I made this point on the other thread and it's still true).
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Hosydi wrote:Posted By: richardh
Date Posted: February 27 2025 at 23:45
Works Vol 2 would have been the natural end of the line. It contained remnants of the Works and BSS sessions so didn't hold together at all. Howerver it's a weird eclectric mix of music and is quite fun in a way and represented the goofy side of the band that people hate although I don't hate it. Re Love Beach, ''Compromise'' in music is rarely a good thing. Emerson was admittedly still writing symhonically and carried that through with his much better solo albums of the early 80's but it was still lacking the basic power of ELP. To this 16 year old at the time it just showed the band was nothing anymore and gave the music critics all the ammunition they needed to bury the band. I absolutely hate it for that. Their reputation and legacy took a massive hit. One of the most important bands in rock history reduced to half baked 'no balls' commercialism. ELP were never that.
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Posted By: moshkito
Date Posted: February 28 2025 at 01:00
Hi, All in all, I do not remember any "prog purists" in 1977 ... so I presume that those so named folks are folks that heard ELP some 10 to 20 years later, and by that time, they (likely) could not handle the differences and variety, as their tastes (fans) had already turned, and in the 1990's it was fashionable to start the trashing of a lot of the bands in the 1970's that ended up giving the name a spin, as "progressive". I would take a closer look at the folks that state such things, as I would imagine that they are mentioning some younger and current "fans", who prefer something else, that is not progressive, and leans towards formats and numbers, than it ever did as the music of a generation that actually MEANT SOMETHING to many folks. I agree that the whole orchestra thing was too much, but I'm not sure I would not want to try it and give it a go, something that even here we don't appreciate much ... even DT's album is not appreciated for the fantastic work they were able to put together with an orchestra, although I would like a bit less thrashing, and more orchestration, but that's another story. For me, and many "fans" at the time, folks like ELP were vital and important. They were rewriting the history of pop music, and showing themselves very capable composers of a lot of great music, with one important side of things here ... we look at it all as "songs" not music, and that means that anyone can trash things, and not respect it for the music that was created. We don't talk of Mozart and Beethoven as songs, and we will not do that in 50 more years with ELP, either! And maybe, just maybe, a lot of those "prog purists" will all be enchanted with something else ... that is an idea, not a reality. ELP were a "reality" ... not an idea like so many things these days, with pulp-like-fiction for ideas and concepts! ------------- Music is not just for listening ... it is for LIVING ... you got to feel it to know what's it about! Not being told! www.pedrosena.com |
Posted By: octopus-4
Date Posted: February 28 2025 at 03:23
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I love Works. I agree about Piano Concerto and Pirates, but also the cover of Fanfare For The Common Man is great. 2 sides over 4 are 5 stars for me. Greg's side isn't that bad even if it doesn't stand up, but C'est la Vie is a great song. Palmer's side is the weakest, IMO. ------------- I stand with Roger Waters, I stand with Joan Baez, I stand with Victor Jara, I stand with Woody Guthrie. Music is revolution |
Posted By: omphaloskepsis
Date Posted: February 28 2025 at 05:00
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Works Vol I is my second most listened-to ELP album. I adore Lake's side. Hallowed Be Thy Name may be my favorite ELP song. C'est la Vie is divine. I get why folks don't dig Works. I agree with Octopus-4. Palmer's side is the weakest.
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Posted By: richardh
Date Posted: February 28 2025 at 05:07
| I enjoy Carl Palmer's side roping in Joe Walsh for LA Nights and a great Buddy Rich inspired work out for Food For Your Soul. I also like The Enemy God (Prokoviev is the best!) and the version of Tank with more Buddy Rich inspired madness. The 2 short tracks are pretty bad though and at least can easily be skipped. One interesting fact about the album is that it was played on all three BBC radio stations at the time (Radio 1 -pop/rock, Radio 2 - easy listening and Radio 3 - classical). That must be a very rare thing in itself. |
Posted By: Psychedelic Paul
Date Posted: February 28 2025 at 05:07
Works Vol. 1 has always been my favourite ELP album, although my opinion doesn't amount to much when I highly-rate the much-maligned Love Beach album too. 
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Posted By: omphaloskepsis
Date Posted: February 28 2025 at 05:13
I enjoy Carl Palmer's side too. I agree with your mini-review. 
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Posted By: Rick1
Date Posted: February 28 2025 at 05:25
Agreed - the post-modern irony of the cover of 'Love Beach' is also lost on most prog fans. Throbbing Gristle did something similar with '20 Jazz Funk Greats' atop Beachy Head.
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Posted By: Octopus II
Date Posted: February 28 2025 at 05:28
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I have always been a big fan of both Works albums.
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Posted By: Psychedelic Paul
Date Posted: February 28 2025 at 05:51
I was hugely disappointed when I heard Throbbing Gristle's 20 Jazz Funk Greats for the first time recently, because I really was expecting to hear some Jazz Funk Greats, but instead, it turned out to be an unlistenable Avant Prog album.
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Posted By: richardh
Date Posted: February 28 2025 at 05:55
^ 
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Posted By: TheLionOfPrague
Date Posted: February 28 2025 at 07:52
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As a big ELP fan, I'm NOT a big fan of these albums. I love Pirates, Fanfare and C'est la Vie from the first album but that's about it. The Piano Concerto is nice but just feels out of place. I love Lake's ballads but they are not very inspired aside from the one I mentioned, although they are still listenable. Palmer is just not a composer, giving him one side of an album was never going to end well, although it's better than Nick Mason's side on Ummagumma at least. The band side, unsurprisingly, is great. Vol 2 is just leftovers mostly and show a different side of the band but the songs are just not that good. And I like a lot some of the songs from previous albums in a similar vein that some people seem to dislike like Jeremy Bender, The Sheriff, etc. They did signal the beginning of the end for ELP, it would have been better for them to release solo albums and then do a proper album together instead of this half-arsed mix. ------------- I shook my head and smiled a whisper knowing all about the place |
Posted By: moshkito
Date Posted: February 28 2025 at 11:48
Hi, That concerto is not the only one ... TARKUS, is, a concerto, and you only need to hear it in Rachel Flower's hands to get it. We forget that if you were 20 years old and showed a professor your "composition" (at the time) things like Tarkus would get slapped raw and that pretty much shows why some great keyboard players gave up graduate school to play in a band ... they could not do what they really wanted to do. By the time of WORKS, I think that there was much more appreciation for what a Concerto was, and Keith creating that piece is a testament, about what he thought was unfair in the educational system, and TARKUS had to be presented in a style that highlighted the keyboards, instead of the concerto it was. That was not an "accident" ... it was how things were appreciated in those days ... you kinda had to blow it all out with all the incendiary elements at your disposal. And pretty much all major keyboard players did it, and did it well ... with RW being the only one, to my knowledge, that has not quite gone back and done his works on solo piano, so he could show his work, which in my book is almost the same riffs on different keyboards! WORKS is magnificent ... and stands out ... and it is a shame, that folks don't take a look at history and see what was available at the time in all kinds of lists ... and the appreciation for their work would be much more open and appreciated. Instead some folks think it is over rated stuff ... like the majority of the top 50 of last year were not overblown and not even close to the adventurous work by ELP in the series WORKS. Please take a look at the history at the time, before making the comments ... it makes quite a difference. ------------- Music is not just for listening ... it is for LIVING ... you got to feel it to know what's it about! Not being told! www.pedrosena.com |
Posted By: Nergdnur Ddot
Date Posted: February 28 2025 at 13:31
Only Lake's material? What about Piano Concerto No. 1? It's a
genuinely good avant-garde, psychedelic, neo-classical song. It's on par
with The Nice live records such as Five Bridges. Yes, it is messy, but
isn't that the point of this kind of music?
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Posted By: Floydoid
Date Posted: February 28 2025 at 13:41
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For me Emerson's side and the band side make for a very decent album. The rest I find a bit of a mixed bag. And as for Works vol 2 - it's ELP's equivalent of Led Zeppelin's Coda, i.e. a bunch of leftover stuff from previous albums that wasn't worthy of release in the first place. ------------- Is it any wonder that the monkey's confused? |
Posted By: Hosydi
Date Posted: March 01 2025 at 00:41
For those who frequently engage with classical music and are well-acquainted with the compositions of renowned composers, the initial two movements of Keith Emerson's Piano Concerto No. 1 may come across as lacking originality and exhibiting a formulaic structure. These movements do not have the richness or emotional depth of more typical concertos from the classical masters. The excessive use of standard forms and tropes dilutes the overall impact of the piece, rendering it less memorable than other pieces in the genre. Although the third movement in Emerson's concerto is more lively, it is also much different from the first two movements, and that inconsistency may disturb the listener in attempting to see cohesion within the work as a whole. A perfect concerto has to have stylistic coherence of some variety throughout its multiple movements, something that Piano Concerto No. 1 does not possess. Compared to piano concertos by renowned composers, such as those Keith Emerson aspired to be like, it lacks content. |
Posted By: Atavachron
Date Posted: March 01 2025 at 00:53
^ Oh please-- I like me some 'Sailors Hornpipe'  Criminally underappreciated record ------------- "Too often we enjoy the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought." -- John F. Kennedy |
Posted By: richardh
Date Posted: March 01 2025 at 01:29
| It's true that Piano Concerto No1 was a 'rock star' doing classical music and it's also true that the London Philharmonic were not invested in it (that story is in Emerson Auto-Bio ''Pictures Of An Exhibitionist''). However it's also perfectly okay to like and enjoy it. It was largely inspired by a combination of Aaron Copland's Appalachian Spring and Emerson's commute on the train between Brighton and London. It oozes grandeur and Emerson's personal feelings for his home and has some extremely memorable sections. I like it a lot. We don't need to compare it to Brahms. That is plainly rediculous. |
Posted By: Floydoid
Date Posted: March 01 2025 at 02:14
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Emerson was one of that band of keyboard plays who were inspired by the classics and were also aspiring composers, Along with Rod Argent, Rick Wakeman, and Jon Lord. In the case of the bands Argent and ELP there was also the rivalry/conflict/contrast between the composer and the songwriter - i.e. Emerson-Lake and Argent-Ballard. ------------- Is it any wonder that the monkey's confused? |
Posted By: Hosydi
Date Posted: March 01 2025 at 02:31
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Posted By: Psychedelic Paul
Date Posted: March 01 2025 at 02:39
Another big shout-out for Robert John Godfrey - The Professor of Prog.  1974: Robert John Godfrey - Fall of Hyperion - https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL_TaS3ukydpKggplszMt_cWZOgljkSwwE" rel="nofollow - https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL_TaS3ukydpKggplszMt_cWZOgljkSwwE 1986: Robert John Godfrey - The Music of William Arkle - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OI4vnCiJMsU" rel="nofollow - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OI4vnCiJMsU  1987: Godfrey & Stewart - Joined by the Heart - https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL_TaS3ukydpIgt2EC_GDSJa2SuFt3Cpql" rel="nofollow - https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL_TaS3ukydpIgt2EC_GDSJa2SuFt3Cpql  2013: Robert John Godfrey - The Art of Melody - https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL_TaS3ukydpL0_Fd5d0vkqk5Fvy88_idi" rel="nofollow - ROBERT JOHN GODFREY He may have the appearance of a college professor with his long beard and studious expression, but Robert John Godfrey is the main driving force behind THE ENID, the Symphonic Prog band that's been around now for well over 40 years. Although this album, "Fall of Hyperion" (1974), is billed as a Robert John Godfrey solo album, it's really an album by The Enid in all but name, and presumably, that's why this album is included at the beginning of The Enid albums roster on Prog Archives. Most importantly though, this album SOUNDS like The Enid, with all of the symphonic pomp and ceremony you might expect from such a distinguished Prog-meister as "Professor Godfrey". His first album release as The Enid, "In the Region of the Summer Stars"was released two years later in 1976, followed swiftly by the humorously-titled "Aerie Faerie Nonsense" album in 1977. This solo album "Fall of Hyperion" features vocals, although the first four albums by The Enid proper were all orchestral pieces with no lyrics. It wasn't until the release of the band's fifth album, "Something Wicked This Way Comes" in 1983, that lyrics were featured for the first time. Robert John Godfrey worked with Barclay James Harvest in the early 1970's before deciding to go solo. Godfrey and The Enid have 20 studio albums to their credit, and despite him being diagnosed with Alzheimer's Disease in 2013, The Enid still continues to this day with many changes of line-up along the way. Although Robert John Godfrey has had to retire from touring due to his illness, he IS The Enid, because without keyboard maestro Godfrey ever- present at the helm, the band would never have existed.The album opens in grand symphonic style with "The Raven". This anthemic piece of music is so extravagantly ostentatious in in all of its glorious pomp and splendour, that you may feel the patriotic urge to stand up and give a rousing rendition of "Land of Hope and Glory", or maybe the "Star Spangled Banner" if you're an American. Yes, it really IS that anthemic. It's booming, it's bombastic, and it's fantastic! You really have to hear it to believe it. This grand stentorian, orchestral symphony would have been equally at home as a magnificent finale to the album. And so, how do you follow up such a marvellous 9-minute album opener? You follow it with "Mountain", a 7-minute-long, energetic and euphonic piece of music with classical glissandos galore. Even classical music buffs couldn't fail to be impressed by this flawless fugue. This theatrical and emotionally uplifting music is like Renaissance with knobs on, where the dynamic and dramatic classical influences are even more in evidence. This is masterful Symphonic Prog taken to even more powerful extremes of classical greatness. Sailing onwards now on a patriotic wave of glory, comes the 6-minute "Water Song". You can expect to hear a profusion of grand- sounding keyboard runs on the piano with the ever-present full orchestra there in all of their magnificent power and glory. Side Two opens with "Isault", an emotional powerful song with all of the grand theatrics of a BBC costume drama. It's grandiose and spectacular and just what we've come to expect by now from such an accomplished keyboard maestro as "Professor Godfrey". And now we come to "The Daemon of the World, a 15-minute long 6-piece suite to round off the album in grand style. Listen in awe and be prepared to be swept away by the magnificent grandstanding on display here in this powerful symphonic opus. It's melodious and triumphal with constant changes of tempo, staccato breaks, and sparkling fast and slow keyboard runs. This marvellous finale is sure to delight fans of The Enid and the whole Symphonic Prog genre generally. There's even the stentorian sound of a pipe organ thrown in for good measure. What more could you ask for!? A gloriously powerful album of passionate majestic anthems that's guaranteed to astound and delight fans of classically- inspired Symphonic Prog. This album might be described as overblown and pretentious (just like this review) by those who aren't in the know, but to prog aficionados, this is prog heaven! Let Robert John Godfrey carry you away to a Land of Hope and Glory in this unashamedly pompous and sonorous extravaganza. It's an absolute must-have album for connoisseurs and collectors of classic British Symphonic Prog. |
Posted By: richardh
Date Posted: March 01 2025 at 02:40
also Jobson - Wetton in UK?
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Posted By: richardh
Date Posted: March 01 2025 at 02:43
| I love Aerie Fairie Nonsense most by The Enid. Yep RJG is one of a kind could even upstage Emerson with his antics when covering Hendrix at one famous festival back in the day! |
Posted By: Floydoid
Date Posted: March 01 2025 at 04:29
Ah yes, and Monkman of course was another classically trained keyboardist / composer often in conflict with his other band members, notably leaving both Curved Air and Sky to move on... whether it was due to conflicting personalities I don't know. ------------- Is it any wonder that the monkey's confused? |