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Monolith - the last great Kansas album?

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Printed Date: February 01 2025 at 22:53
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Topic: Monolith - the last great Kansas album?
Posted By: BasedProgger
Subject: Monolith - the last great Kansas album?
Date Posted: January 30 2025 at 09:45
What does everyone here think of Kansas's sixth album by Monolith?

Generally the first five Kansas albums (debut, Song for America, Masque, Leftoverture, and Point of Know Return) are considered the best but some fans, myself included, include Monolith up there as one of the best Kansas albums, even if it's the worst "classic" album. Yes the album is more commercial than previous efforts and inconsistent in quality, and the two singles are both forgettable, "People of the South Wind" being the most pop song they ever wrote at that time and "Reason to Be" being a worse "Dust in the Wind" with too many synthesizers. But there's also some good stuff on here like "On the Other Side" and "A Glimpse of Home" comparable to the songs from their first five albums. Personally I see Monolith as a planned change in direction while Audio-Visions is when everything fell apart.

And something else to discuss: Should "No One Together" (a song written for this album but ended up on Audio-Visions instead) have been included on this album?



Replies:
Posted By: verslibre
Date Posted: January 30 2025 at 09:53
Monolith is good, but not great. It may have been released too soon (though it went halfway between gold and platinum upon release) to capitalize on the momentum of Point of Know Return and Two for the Show. But it's a keeper, nonetheless.

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https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_ipg=50&_sop=1&_rdc=1&_ssn=musicosm" rel="nofollow - eBay


Posted By: Steve Wyzard
Date Posted: January 30 2025 at 13:47
The last great Kansas album is Somewhere to Elsewhere. From time to time, I've even been tempted to consider it "The Very Best" Kansas album, but at other times, not so much.

Monolith is a fabulous, wonderful album. Its only problem is that it's just not as good as Leftoverture and Point of Know Return. "Stay Out of Trouble" is the only "slightly" weak-link for this long-time listener. I'd take Monolith over Masque every time.

I'm very glad "No One Together" did not appear on Monolith, because like everything else on Audio-Visions, it seems very rushed and hastily thrown-together.


Posted By: BasedProgger
Date Posted: January 30 2025 at 14:59
I agree "Stay Out of Trouble" is the weakest song on Monolith. It feels like an obligatory bluesy hard rock track that doesn't fit with the rest of the album. I do like "No One Together" and I think it would have improved Monolith if it was included but then there wouldn't have been a song on Audio-Visions to make that album worth owning (well, maybe "Curtain of Iron").


Posted By: verslibre
Date Posted: January 30 2025 at 15:00
Originally posted by Steve Wyzard Steve Wyzard wrote:

I'd take Monolith over Masque every time.


Masque, the same album that contains a few of the band's very best offerings: "Icarus," "Mysteries and Mayhem," "The Pinnacle"...!?

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Posted By: Steve Wyzard
Date Posted: January 30 2025 at 15:32
Originally posted by verslibre verslibre wrote:

Originally posted by Steve Wyzard Steve Wyzard wrote:

I'd take Monolith over Masque every time.


Masque, the same album that contains a few of the band's very best offerings: "Icarus," "Mysteries and Mayhem," "The Pinnacle"...!?

I'm one of those fans who believe the band was finding their footing and discovering their sound on the first 3 albums. Which is in no way to imply that they do not have any good material - far from it. There are good reasons why "Song for America" is as popular as it is. Yet there is also a feeling with most of the early songs that the band is simply trying too hard to impress and showing off. Leftoverture was the first album where they were confident enough to no longer be "Lynyrd Skynyrd meets King Crimson" and just be themselves without sacrificing their virtuosity or experimentalism. Not to mention the first 3 albums were recorded with extremely low budgets, so the songs sounded much better on Two for the Show, which includes the best songs from those albums.


Posted By: mellotronwave
Date Posted: January 30 2025 at 16:07
For sure Monolith is their last good LP.
Angels have fallen is my fav song.


Posted By: Hector Enrique
Date Posted: January 30 2025 at 16:43
I was expecting a much better album after the successful “Lefoverture” and “PoKR”, and with the cover art of the proud Native American I even assumed a vindicatory conceptual theme and intense progressive developments. But except for "Angels Have Fallen" and "Away From You", and the occasional scattered spark of lucidity, the album fails to take off, at least for my taste, and especially for the expectations I personally had.

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Héctor Enrique


Posted By: richardh
Date Posted: January 31 2025 at 00:34
I would second Somewhere To Elsewhere. I had the pleasure of seeing them playing live (still with Steve Walsh) around that time and they were brilliant. Fantastic band for sure. Always loved the first couple of albums where there is a fluidity to the style and the music feels more 'real' to me. You do get a sense of how good they are and I actually love the boogie tracks! I may be a contrarian but I never warmed that much to Masque and albums after that were just too over produced to my ears. You can hear the noose of 'corporate Americana' tightening its grip. They feel constricted to me. I enjoy the recent Absence of Presence and Prelude Implicit albums a lot more. Shoot me.


Posted By: Sean Trane
Date Posted: January 31 2025 at 04:58
Originally posted by Hector Enrique Hector Enrique wrote:

I was expecting a much better album after the successful “Lefoverture” and “PoKR”, and with the cover art of the proud Native American I even assumed a vindicatory conceptual theme and intense progressive developments. But except for "Angels Have Fallen" and "Away From You", and the occasional scattered spark of lucidity, the album fails to take off, at least for my taste, and especially for the expectations I personally had.


Yeah, that great gatefold sleeve (that inspired me to write SF novelas, long lost nowadays) was certainly very promising (outside), but fairly disappointing once played (inside). Not that I was ever all that convinced with their previous albums (IMHO, they never bettered their debut), but clearly, despite the imaginative imagery, their inspiration had waned after Leftoverture.

Monolith was certainly the last album I bought from the band (back then) and isn't present in my shelves (only the debut and a CDr comp of the next 5), but yes, I'd say that it is the last of their classics, but also the least of their classics (though Masque is fighting for that last place as well)


.


-------------
let's just stay above the moral melee
prefer the sink to the gutter
keep our sand-castle virtues
content to be a doer
as well as a thinker,
prefer lifting our pen
rather than un-sheath our sword


Posted By: AFlowerKingCrimson
Date Posted: January 31 2025 at 05:39
I think it's very good but it's spotty in some places. For example "stay out of trouble" is a total throw away track and makes typical filler look great by comparsion. One of those what were they thinking moments. There was at least one other not so good song on there but I don't remember what it was. "Reason to Be" however is probably a better song than "dust in the wind."


Posted By: AFlowerKingCrimson
Date Posted: January 31 2025 at 05:43
Originally posted by verslibre verslibre wrote:

Monolith is good, but not great. It may have been released too soon (though it went halfway between gold and platinum upon release) to capitalize on the momentum of Point of Know Return and Two for the Show. But it's a keeper, nonetheless.

The RIAA website just says gold. Where are you getting this halfway information from? 


Posted By: BasedProgger
Date Posted: January 31 2025 at 09:45
I think Masque was when Kansas started to move towards a more commercial direction as evident in songs like "It Takes a Woman's Love (To Make a Man)", not that it's a bad thing because Leftoverture and PoKR are both classics where they figured out their sound, balanced progressive rock with arena rock in a way that worked, and didn't have any weak songs. I agree it has some of their best offerings like the ones verslibre mentioned (I'd add "Child of Innocence" to that).

In my opinion, Masque > Monlith but probably only because of "Mysteries and Mayhem" and "The Pinnacle" (should have been one song or at least segued into each other like "Apercu" and "Death of Mother Nature Suite").


Posted By: BasedProgger
Date Posted: January 31 2025 at 09:51
I actually prefer "Reason to Be" but objectively speaking, it seems like a worse sequel that didn't do as well on the charts. I agree "Stay out of Trouble" is throwaway though ("Away from You" too but not as much).


Posted By: verslibre
Date Posted: January 31 2025 at 10:24
Originally posted by AFlowerKingCrimson AFlowerKingCrimson wrote:

Originally posted by verslibre verslibre wrote:

Monolith is good, but not great. It may have been released too soon (though it went halfway between gold and platinum upon release) to capitalize on the momentum of Point of Know Return and Two for the Show. But it's a keeper, nonetheless.


The RIAA website just says gold. Where are you getting this halfway information from? 


It eventually went Platinum. Where are you getting your information?

"The platinum record featured here was awarded to Kerry Livgren as a member of Kansas when the album Monolith (1979) reached the 1,000,000 sale mark. The Recording Industry Association of America (RIAA) awards gold and platinum albums after a long and rigorous process of record sales certification. The tradition of awarding gold records to artists who achieve extraordinary success began in 1958, but by the mid-1970s the distribution of records had reached such a mass audience that the platinum record award was introduced to recognize the sale of one million albums."




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https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_ipg=50&_sop=1&_rdc=1&_ssn=musicosm" rel="nofollow - eBay


Posted By: verslibre
Date Posted: January 31 2025 at 10:27
Originally posted by Steve Wyzard Steve Wyzard wrote:

Originally posted by verslibre verslibre wrote:

Originally posted by Steve Wyzard Steve Wyzard wrote:

I'd take Monolith over Masque every time.


Masque, the same album that contains a few of the band's very best offerings: "Icarus," "Mysteries and Mayhem," "The Pinnacle"...!?


I'm one of those fans who believe the band was finding their footing and discovering their sound on the first 3 albums. Which is in no way to imply that they do not have any good material - far from it. There are good reasons why "Song for America" is as popular as it is. Yet there is also a feeling with most of the early songs that the band is simply trying too hard to impress and showing off.


I don't get that feeling from those albums, particularly the debut, which is wall-to-wall greatness.


Originally posted by Steve Wyzard Steve Wyzard wrote:

Leftoverture was the first album where they were confident enough to no longer be "Lynyrd Skynyrd meets King Crimson" and just be themselves without sacrificing their virtuosity or experimentalism. Not to mention the first 3 albums were recorded with extremely low budgets, so the songs sounded much better on Two for the Show, which includes the best songs from those albums.


Am I glad I don't hear anything Skynyrdy about their music!

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Posted By: AFlowerKingCrimson
Date Posted: January 31 2025 at 11:00
Originally posted by verslibre verslibre wrote:

Originally posted by AFlowerKingCrimson AFlowerKingCrimson wrote:

Originally posted by verslibre verslibre wrote:

Monolith is good, but not great. It may have been released too soon (though it went halfway between gold and platinum upon release) to capitalize on the momentum of Point of Know Return and Two for the Show. But it's a keeper, nonetheless.


The RIAA website just says gold. Where are you getting this halfway information from? 


It eventually went Platinum. Where are you getting your information?

"The platinum record featured here was awarded to Kerry Livgren as a member of Kansas when the album Monolith (1979) reached the 1,000,000 sale mark. The Recording Industry Association of America (RIAA) awards gold and platinum albums after a long and rigorous process of record sales certification. The tradition of awarding gold records to artists who achieve extraordinary success began in 1958, but by the mid-1970s the distribution of records had reached such a mass audience that the platinum record award was introduced to recognize the sale of one million albums."



I go by the RIAA website. https://www.riaa.com/

http://www.riaa.com/gold-platinum/?tab_active=default-award&se=kansas#search_section" rel="nofollow - https://www.riaa.com/gold-platinum/?tab_active=default-award&se=kansas#search_section


Posted By: IncogNeato
Date Posted: January 31 2025 at 11:14
I like 'Monolith', but it's not on my list of "classic" Kansas albums.

I like 'Masque' more than 'Monolith'.

I don't think Kansas ever made a bad album. But I have zero interest in any new material beyond 'Somewhere To Elsewhere'.


Posted By: verslibre
Date Posted: January 31 2025 at 11:17
Originally posted by AFlowerKingCrimson AFlowerKingCrimson wrote:

I go by the RIAA website. https://www.riaa.com/

http://www.riaa.com/gold-platinum/?tab_active=default-award&se=kansas#search_section" rel="nofollow - https://www.riaa.com/gold-platinum/?tab_active=default-award&se=kansas#search_section


They need to update it. As you can see right there, it states the Gold certification date is June 20, 1980.

More than enough copies shipped upon Monolith's release for it to ship Gold. They had around ¾ of a million units out the door.

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Posted By: AFlowerKingCrimson
Date Posted: January 31 2025 at 12:08
Originally posted by verslibre verslibre wrote:

Originally posted by AFlowerKingCrimson AFlowerKingCrimson wrote:

I go by the RIAA website. https://www.riaa.com/

http://www.riaa.com/gold-platinum/?tab_active=default-award&se=kansas#search_section" rel="nofollow - https://www.riaa.com/gold-platinum/?tab_active=default-award&se=kansas#search_section


They need to update it. As you can see right there, it states the Gold certification date is June 20, 1980.

More than enough copies shipped upon Monolith's release for it to ship Gold. They had around ¾ of a million units out the door.

Wouldn't you think that Going for the One would be close to platinum also (or maybe even platinum by now). It went gold less than a month after being released. Tormato even went platinum less than two months after it was released. Weird. Yes, they need to update lots of stuff on there. They have David Bowies ziggy stardust album as only going gold. Seriously.


Posted By: verslibre
Date Posted: January 31 2025 at 12:37
Originally posted by AFlowerKingCrimson AFlowerKingCrimson wrote:

Wouldn't you think that Going for the One would be close to platinum also (or maybe even platinum by now). It went gold less than a month after being released. Tormato even went platinum less than two months after it was released. Weird. Yes, they need to update lots of stuff on there. They have David Bowies ziggy stardust album as only going gold. Seriously.


G4T1 should be Platinum, I agree.

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Posted By: Hector Enrique
Date Posted: January 31 2025 at 17:49
Definitely the first albums of Kansas are the best of their discography, I love the debut Kansas, Song for America, and somehow I give a special value to Leftoverture and PoKR, beyond being also very good works, because they allowed that their expansive wave has given exposure to the first albums of the Americans, that they reach a greater number of listeners and that the band has transcended much more than they surely expected.

On the other hand, I agree that among their "classic" works, Monolith disputes with Masque their placement a bit behind. Personally I think Masque is a couple of steps above, because Mysteries, Icarus and Pinnacle don't have similar level tracks to match them in Monolith. But that's ultimately a matter of personal appreciation and taste.

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Héctor Enrique


Posted By: Sean Trane
Date Posted: February 01 2025 at 01:55
Maybe Monolith went gold in the long run, but it certainly didn't seem like it sold as much back then as their two previous albums.


Originally posted by BasedProgger BasedProgger wrote:

I think Masque was when Kansas started to move towards a more commercial direction as evident in songs like "It Takes a Woman's Love (To Make a Man)", not that it's a bad thing because Leftoverture and PoKR are both classics where they figured out their sound, balanced progressive rock with arena rock in a way that worked, and didn't have any weak songs. I agree it has some of their best offerings like the ones verslibre mentioned (I'd add "Child of Innocence" to that).
In my opinion, Masque > Monlith but probably only because of "Mysteries and Mayhem" and "The Pinnacle" (should have been one song or at least segued into each other like "Apercu" and "Death of Mother Nature Suite").


Yes, Masque has two or three tracks I saved for my CDr comp of theirs (from SFA until Monolith), but the rest is subpar, IMHO, and was a vrather disappointment from the debut and SFA. Oddly enough, this album escaped my radar for years too.

Originally posted by verslibre verslibre wrote:

Originally posted by Steve Wyzard Steve Wyzard wrote:

Leftoverture was the first album where they were confident enough to no longer be "Lynyrd Skynyrd meets King Crimson" and just be themselves without sacrificing their virtuosity or experimentalism. Not to mention the first 3 albums were recorded with extremely low budgets, so the songs sounded much better on Two for the Show, which includes the best songs from those albums.


Am I glad I don't hear anything Skynyrdy about their music!


Neither do I hear any Crimson (despite the violin).LOL

Oddly enough, I was never enamoured by their Two For The Show, despite the accolades it gets.
It's like GG's Playing The Fool, could never get into it.


.


-------------
let's just stay above the moral melee
prefer the sink to the gutter
keep our sand-castle virtues
content to be a doer
as well as a thinker,
prefer lifting our pen
rather than un-sheath our sword


Posted By: Hosydi
Date Posted: February 01 2025 at 02:35
There is nothing about The Absence of Presence that one could find really objectionable; that's their last great album.


Posted By: BasedProgger
Date Posted: February 01 2025 at 09:03
Originally posted by Sean Trane Sean Trane wrote:


Neither do I hear any Crimson (despite the violin).LOL


Same here. Other than the violin (which both bands play a largely different style) and the heavier sound, I don't see many similarities between Kansas and Wetton-era King Crimson.


Posted By: BasedProgger
Date Posted: February 01 2025 at 09:07
Originally posted by Hosydi Hosydi wrote:

There is nothing about The Absence of Presence that one could find really objectionable; that's their last great album.


I think Prelude and Absence are both good albums but like most new albums from older bands, are rather forgettable and I guess people find the fact most of the original members including Steve Walsh and Kerry Livgren had left the band objectionable about those two albums.


Posted By: verslibre
Date Posted: February 01 2025 at 12:52
I've never likened any aspect of Kansas to King Crimson. That's just as odd a comparison as Skynyrd, at least to me.

King Crimson is one of those bands I've felt we don't really need more than one of. That's probably why I can't get many any of the heavily Crim-inspired groups past Anekdoten. But that can always change.

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Posted By: BasedProgger
Date Posted: February 01 2025 at 14:16
Kansas should be compared to progressive rock bands like Yes and Genesis who moved towards a commercial pop direction but are still remembered by many as progressive rock bands, or Emerson Lake & Palmer if they had both a violinist and guitarist.

We don't really need more than one of many bands, especially bands with unique sounds (many prog bands including King Crimson, Yes, Jethro Tull, Gentle Giant, Van der Graaf Generator) or bands so huge everyone can easily identify their sound (Queen, Floyd, Zeppelin).


Posted By: Sean Trane
Date Posted: February 01 2025 at 16:08
Originally posted by verslibre verslibre wrote:

I've never likened any aspect of Kansas to King Crimson. That's just as odd a comparison as Skynyrd, at least to me.


I probably wouldn't have reacted if they'd been compared to Yes (an obvious inspiration) and Skynyrd (in spirit maybe), but Crimson was just too much


-------------
let's just stay above the moral melee
prefer the sink to the gutter
keep our sand-castle virtues
content to be a doer
as well as a thinker,
prefer lifting our pen
rather than un-sheath our sword


Posted By: Hosydi
Date Posted: February 01 2025 at 17:51
Originally posted by BasedProgger BasedProgger wrote:

Originally posted by Hosydi Hosydi wrote:

There is nothing about The Absence of Presence that one could find really objectionable; that's their last great album.


I think Prelude and Absence are both good albums but like most new albums from older bands, are rather forgettable and I guess people find the fact most of the original members including Steve Walsh and Kerry Livgren had left the band objectionable about those two albums.
The reality is that on the Monolith album, Kansas demonstrated an intricate hard rock approach rather than sticking to their prog rock style. The keys were taking a less prominent role. The violin featured less on Monolith than on previous albums. The tunes lean towards a pop sensibility, even though the instrumentation remains rich throughout most tracks. There is indeed a noticeable shift away from the Kansas progressive style in Monolith.

As for missing personnel, well, nobody is indispensable in a band. The departure of a member from a band that has been active for many years, such as Kansas, which has been around for over 50 years, should not be viewed as a significant flaw in their last album. For example, The Absence of Presence features keyboardist Tom Brislin. He is the newest member of Kansas, who has previously played with Yes, Camel, and Renaissance. But beyond impressive playing skills, Brislin also brought to the table several of his own compositions and lyrics for some tracks on The Absence of Presence. He also handles lead vocals on the standout track The Song the River Sang. Kansas was indeed fortunate to get him as part of their lineup.

The other members of the band are doing extremely well on The Absence of Presence, too: lead vocalist Ronnie Platt and producer/guitarist Zak Rizvi, both of whom are now fully assimilated into Kansas. Violinist David Ragsdale, who joined in the early 1990s, is doing a fantastic job, and his work with the violin has been outstanding. Billy Greer, who joined in the mid-1980s, is still thriving in his role. The other continuing members are drummer Phil Ehart and guitarist Richard Williams, who have been with the band since its inception. The seven men carry Kansas's rich legacy perfectly. Everything fits nicely: keyboards, violin, drums, vocals—including choruses—and even the overall production and album artwork.



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