Hi,

Hopefully you won't think this is against the "solo", but in general, for me, a musical piece is always "one" and a solo is not necessary, or a part of the whole thing.

As an example, let's take TARKUS, and suggesting that Keith is soloing is a bit on the nuts side of things, as the piece is not a song, but a keyboard concerto with the synthesizer being used as an instrument itself, rather than a sit-in for another orchestra piece. At that time, the synth still had a life of its own, and was not exactly used as a replacement for an orchestra as is the case today with most rock bands.

Another example, is listening to YES in TFTO and even CTTE. It's a serious shame to consider that Chris is "soloing" because he seems to do so many touches that appear almost independent from the whole thing, or even comment on Steve as solo'ing for the whole thing ... it's a complete "Symphony" by its definition and the elements (the instruments) are all a part of the whole, and complete thing.

I, personally, don't like the idea of a "solo" since it tends to imply that the guitarist (or otherwise) is on his/her own, and for me, the unity of the piece falls apart ... it's all about this, and then a solo that has nothing to do with that at all ... a bit weird for me, and this is very loud and clear in a large majority of rock musicians.

Now, if we take "thrashing" and some "metal", this line is blurred even more since the whole thing comes off as a non-stop solo, and listening to DREAM THEATER, it sure seems that way, with a few guys supporting the guitar which seemingly creates the imagined idea and thoughts of what the piece is about via a couple of lyrics. This is bad in many ways. If you have done live theater, you know that no 2 nights are the same and tomorrow the audience won't laugh about this line or other moment. So, expecting the audience to fall for the same thing night after night is something that bands work on ... by making sure their "fans" are up front first, and love everything they do.

I am not sure that the word is right ... for example, I don't consider that John McLoughlin is soloing his way through a piece of music! And this is the hard part of deciding what a solo is, and how it should be used ... if it is "apart" from the actual piece of music ... that's another story, but for us to sit here and consider a "solo" as a part of a rock song ... means that we hate music history and think 500 years of definitions and studies are all stupid because a rock band does this ... and us, the fans, think it's better than what history has shown us ... in the end, the "solo" has nothing to do with the piece itself that it is on.

A good solo serves the song, it's just a piece of the whole puzzle. I think you got the whole thing backwards. Nobody is saying the solo is more important than the song itself. 

You constantly finding reasons to complain about anything has become tedious. So much negativity... 

          Thirdly, I would have to say Keith Emerson's piano soloing in the beginning part of the title track to the ELP album Trilogy.

                All the above are deeply moving experiences for me, for sure!

The whole 'Solo' term is a little nebulous for me, As stated above, some keyboard licks are considered solos while others are sweeteners or just parts of the composition.

I'll go with anything by Emerson, Wakeman, Moraz, Fritz or Duncan Mackay to start, but even Kansas, Styx or Saga have great keyboard breaks.

One less known: Chuta Chani by Profusion has and excellent one in the middle.

Then let's say Keith Emerson and Rick Wakeman above all.

Rick Wakeman  (roundabout, awaken, birthright, the revelaing science of god, Merlin The Magician and so many others)

Keith Emerson (lucky man, trilogy title track and tarkus)

Honorable mentions:

Tomas Bodin 

Martin Orford

Neal Morse/ Ryo Okomoto

Shine on you crazy diamond intro solo by Richard Wright
Frost* - Black Light Machine

I'll have to give some more thought to my second and third favourite keyboard solos, but for me there is a very clear number one favourite keyboard solo which, according to Wikipedia, was cited by Rick Wakeman as the greatest organ solo ever:

 

 

Tony Banks: "In the Cage", "Riding the Scree", and the intro to "Firth of Fifth".

Rick Wakeman: organ solos on "Close to the Edge" and "Parallels", piano solos on "Turn of the Century" and "Awaken".

Eddie Jobson: "Carrying No Cross".

Keith Emerson: "Trilogy".

Geoff Downes: the Fairlight solo at the end of "Cutting it Fine".

This post is like chinese to me.

Anyway, as for my answer, here are the first three that came to mind...not sure if I actually have a real top 3, but, again, these came to mind:

-George Duke's solo in Zappa's Don't You Ever Wash That Thing? There's a reason why he was the only band member Zappa ever had who was allowed to solo (nearly) as much as Frank. The album version of Inca Roads is another great one, though that one is enhanced by some overdubs.

-The keyboards solo/guitar solo on Al Di Meola's Flight Over Rio. It's more of a dueling solo, but I love the sound on it, and it sounds very airy, yet exotic, like the song title would suggest. There's two keys players credited on the album, but I'm guessing it's Jan Hammer?

-The keyboard solo on Jean-Luc Ponty's Bowing-Bowing. I had to look up the liner notes, but apparentely Patrice Rushen played keys on this. I had never heard of her, but she's great on this album.

Bonus mention: the keyboard/synth solo on Zappa's Läther/I Promise Not To Come In Your Mouth. I don't know if this one's Eddie or Ruthie playing. Eddie Jobson is credited on keyboards, Ruth Underwood on synthesizer, and it sounds more like a synthesizer than a keyboard to me.

And yes, the solos on Tarkus are great too.

Tony Banks—Cinema Show

Jon Lord—Lazy

Also:

Kent Hensley—Gypsy

John Evan–Thick as a Brick

Keith Emerson—Pictures at an Exhibition

Yes, Jan Hammer features on "Flight to Rio" (first track) and "Elegant Gypsy Suite" (last track). Barry Miles plays on the rest of the album.

Jan Hammer plays the MiniMoog, and the ARP Odyssey "washes" that open the track (along with bassist Anthony Jackson) are by percussionist Mingo Lewis. The opening is phenomenal, Al turns in some of his most fiery playing, and Jan's MiniMoog solos are second to none.

"Flight to Rio" is assuredly one of Al's best jams!

Not previously mentioned but Dave Greenfield's Moog solo on Nice N Sleazy is pretty damn amazing.

Cristi wrote: ... You constantly finding reasons to complain about anything has become tedious. So much negativity...

Hi,

When will you start making comments that are not personal?

I love music and have for all my life. My comments are not "negative" as much as they are COMPARATIVE which is something that you do not seem to understand.

I don't dislike anything in music and you will rarely find a bad comment on an album or band, other than a small joke. A "solo", by its definition, is a PERSONAL/INDIVIDUAL moment within a song, and while I am not saying that it does not fit here and there, it has its places, and many folks have done it right, and made it work, however, I think ... possibly ... that we're enamored with the solo, and who gives a damn about the rest of the song, or the music?

Another example, is Miles Davis ... it's really difficult to not consider what he did a "solo", almost non-stop ... and I have no issue with it, because it opened up a sort of musicianship to many folks that was not quite visible, and it is a treat to watch, and then, later, to appreciate.

Another guitarist that does what could be considered "solos" in the music is Jimmy Page ... but rarely are these not a very clear continuation and a strong part of the song itself ... I like it this way ... instead of apart from the whole thing.

I prefer the complete piece of music.

Another example. Folks talk about opera, mostly because of the "arias", but none of these were ever mentioned as not being a legitimate part of the complete piece, and one of the most emotional moments of the pieces. That was never designed as a "solo" per se, which is used by many classical musicians as highlights of their abilities ... the sad thing being that no one spends time listening to the rest of it ... well, I have to tell you that Wagner taxes my listening hard ... but I can handle the Italians.

Now you know my point about a "solo" ... it has to be clearly a part of the music, not separated.

Nobody separates anything, I was right, i don't think you understand what this thread is about. 

Tony Banks _ The Cinema Show,

Genesis - Apocalypse in 9/8, The Cinema Show, Firth of Fifth

IQ - My Baby Treats Me Right 'Cos I'm a Hard Lovin' Man All Night Long

Kansas - Piano solo introducing Lonely Wind (Two for the Show)

UK - Carrying No Cross

Rick Wakeman - Excerpts from The Six Wives of Henry VIII (Yessongs)

Rick on Fragile Ctte Tales or GFTO 

Usually, the focus is on the finished work and not necessarily the process.

Let's face it, a lot of the prog guys we love may not be able to cook up something on the spot à la George Duke. That's why he's the Duke!

verslibre wrote: Usually, the focus is on the finished work and not necessarily the process. Let's face it, a lot of the prog guys we love may not be able to cook up something on the spot à la George Duke. That's why he's the Duke!

Awesoreno wrote: Are we talkin' improvised solo? Or written solo? Because that delineation needs to be made. How can I compare the aforementioned George Duke solo from Don't You Ever... (one that sprang to mind for me as well, my cheesy friend), with The Raven solo from Slippermen (another goodie)? One was brilliantly composed on the spot, and one was crafted and honed over a period of time until the player was satisfied with how it sounded.

That doesn't mean that oftentimes you can denote exactly when in a song the solo starts and when it ends, and it also doesn't mean that you can't have particular solos that you like. Contrary to what you're claiming, you can often take the solo out of the song and still greatly enjoy it. There's entire Zappa albums built around that concept.

And it's completely irrelevant what's going on in the world of opera, because we're talking about solos in the world of rock music. And here they are often a clearly defined part of a song.

Emerson's work on the entire first side of "Tarkus" 

Moraz's synth solo on "Relayer" 

Peter Bardens - solo in Lunar Sea.

John Tout - opening solo for Running Hard.

Stressed Cheese wrote: ... And it's completely irrelevant what's going on in the world of opera, because we're talking about solos in the world of rock music. And here they are often a clearly defined part of a song.

Hi,

The history of music is never irrelevant, unless you have no ear for it, which is the case for many of the rockers here and in this thread. Comparing a simplistic score sheet for a rock band with 4 or 5 rows, to a Symphony with 35 rows or more of music, is ridiculous, and considering something a "solo" in a rock song, only says that what Mozart and many others did was "hide" their solos so no one considered them "solos" but a piece of the music.

A song, is also a part of music history ... if you disdain the history of music, at least say so at the start ... it's almost like saying that rock music invented the solo ... no!!! the commerciality of the rock music in the past 50 years is what has made the "solo" more important, but that doesn't mean that music history will change because of it.

Your comment about opera is an indictment about how some folks here disdain classical music, because it has no "action" or a "solo" that they have lived with all their lives! I'm not stupid enough to think that times can not change, but I am not sure, honestly, that a comment like that is not well versed and knowledgeable about music in general. AND that's not to say that 500 years of history should mandate what rock music does at all ... but I think the attitude is more fan oriented than it is "music" oriented.

David Sancious - "Matter of Time"

Lee Michaels - "Stormy Monday"

 

That's a matter of opinion and is only true if one considers the history of music to be important. An alternative and equally valid view is to consider each piece of music simply by how it sounds without any reference to other music, history, or any background whatsoever. First and foremost, music is to be listened to. If you want to analyse music, or place it into some larger context, historical or whatever, that's fine, but don't think that is more important than listening to music, or even important at all.

 

I could rattle off any number of solos that occur within classical compositions that are overt and in the forefront of the pieces - which is actually where the term "solo" first came into musical parlance; in fact I was just listening to Vivaldi's Le quattro stagioni. Perhaps you've never heard it? Wonderful violin solo in the First Movement of L'inverno, and it is a technical tour de force very much akin to a lead guitarist's solos in rock. It is Vivaldi showing off. But you are evidently ignorant of classical music. Perhaps you should discuss something you know about somewhere else -- on another forum, perhaps, where you don't have to keep insulting people.  

moshkito wrote: Your comment about opera is an indictment about how some folks here disdain classical music, because it has no "action" or a "solo" that they have lived with all their lives!

-------------
...a vigorous circular motion hitherto unknown to the people of this area, but destined
to take the place of the mud shark in your mythology...

First of all, I don't "disdain" classical music. Second of all, I could be the biggest hater of classical music and/or opera, hell, I could have never even heard of classical music (if such a thing was possible), but that wouldn't have made my comments about prog rock any less valid/accurate. Rock has solos. It doesn't matter what other genres do or do not have them. It doesn't matter how solos in music originated. It doesn't matter if someone would rather cut off their ears than listen to a single second of classical music. We're discussing keyboard solos in rock music, where 1) they are unquestionably a thing and 2) you can prefer certain ones over others. All you need to appreciate and understand a solo in rock music (and indeed to list three favorites instead of going on some rant) is two ears.

You just mention classical music and opera and the vague idea of "history" to appear intellectual and superior to the rest of us. But a real intellectual would know when those topics add absolutely nothing to the discussion at hand. Still inserting them regardless is like a 15-y/o's idea of intellectualism.

Stressed Cheese wrote: ... You just mention classical music and opera and the vague idea of "history" to appear intellectual and superior to the rest of us. But a real intellectual would know when those topics add absolutely nothing to the discussion at hand. Still inserting them regardless is like a 15-y/o's idea of intellectualism.

Hi,

As if your comment was not about your own superiority, since no one else can disagree with you or the others!

And the discussion, on my part, was COMPARATIVE, not the kind of fan made comments.

I am not sure that "solo" was as "visible" as it has been made today as DE suggests. I do think, from my listening perspective, that in what we call/consider music history going back 500 years, perhaps the scoring that has survived had a tendency to "hide" solos, which nowadays, rock music does not hide at all. So, yeah, and we know (via RW ... hahaha!!!) that Vivaldi liked showing off and it is likely and possible that he disguised what we would consider a solo in his music, but if Rick's comments and study/special on Vivaldi, it seems that he did more than just what we know and seems to have survived, and was more of a solo'ist (for lack of a better term) when he wanted to show off.

But, in essence, music history has (in college) hidden some things, and solos is one of them. Opera "arias" were never intended as "solos" although it would be impossible to tell if Puccini and Verdi created a bunch of them because they had such tremendous singers around them ... one listen to Tebaldi and Nilson in Turandot makes one wonder if a composer would not want to do something for them individually ... or another example was Maria Callas doing Carmen. When I was listening to these things at 10 years old, I liked them, but never EVER thought of them as solos, and the story was complete ... without a hitch.

I have no issues with some "solos" in rock music, and there are many good ones, but the reverse is also true when a "solo" is there, and it is mechanical and boring.

I, personally, as I mentioned above, do not like to consider Keith a solo'ist at all ... his composition skills were immense and even hearing DD discuss them only shows a class in composition that very few folks are capable of being at. I like the "sound" that RW creates, but find his "riffs" somewhat the same in a different keyboard, which to me is ... not quite a good rating of a keyboard talent. I enjoyed many other keyboard players (and still do) whose work will forever be ignored here ... someone like Ryuichi Sakamoto comes to mind, and his talent has included an incredible number of sound tracks, and various solo albums where some stuff is experimental, and tremendous fun to listen to (Beauty/Heartbeat/NeoGeo) ... and like Richard Wright for PF, I also like the sound tapestries that Falk U. Rogner created for Amon Duul 2 i their early days ... up to and including "Wolf City" those keyboard sounds were magnificent.

I abstain.

All of Mike Ratledge's playing on http://Out-Bloody-Rageous%20" rel="nofollow - Out-Bloody-Rageous on Soft Machine's Third is pure magic to my ears.  He's mostly carries the composition creating underlaying, themes, atmosphere and soundscapes (which is what I love about him). But there's a definitive solo from about 6:00 and last for several minutes.

-A little randomly the ones that popped into my mind perhaps, but there must be a reason they appeared.

My favorite keyboard performance ever caught on tape and seen (on youtube) is by Irmin Schmidt. Whenever Can decided to go Jazz Rock fusion, it was full of fire. I love the studio version of Vernal Equinox from the (slightly) overlooked or underappreciated Landed too:

Adagio - Children of the Dead Lake

Time Requiem - Optical Illusion

Supertramp - School

The Doors - Riders On The Storm

Pink Floyd - Shine On You Crazy Diamond

I think :)

This is probably one of the best improvised solos ever to be recorded. If any of you have not listened to this track, your life is worse off because of it. 

THREE!!  

The word solo isn´t out of place in the technicality of a concerto at all. A Concerto is the combination of couplet and ritornell sections. The whole idea of the concerto is the well mannered musical exponation of one instrument, the whole rest of the orchestra just serves these returning sections of a specific instrument (in the case of tarkus the synthesizer) taking the lead interest and also showing off the possibilities of that specific instrument. Only because it is highlighted doesn´t make it any disconnected at all and still have the "sole" most important role. Being the centre of attention.

Btw my favourite solos for keyboard are:

CTTE around 14 minutes (squire creates such incredible spaces for wakeman that he can just totally go nuts and fly.)

nearly everything Fariselli did

Probably something from Minnear.. But I am going for Playing The Game solo (subtle mastery)

Vdgg Darkness keyboard solo in the middle. (though its very different)

Mad Man Moon (if you wanna call that a solo)

1. Arena - Riding the Tide

2. IQ - The Seventh House

3. Genesis - The Cinema Show