Hunt for jazz-numetal fusion!
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Topic: Hunt for jazz-numetal fusion!
Posted By: AghoraPhobic
Subject: Hunt for jazz-numetal fusion!
Date Posted: October 14 2005 at 08:26
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Join me: this thread is to hunt for
jazz-numetal-fusion artists for all those who were disappointed by this
link turning out to be a hoax and wont believe it isnt true: http://www.guitar-forum.net/uk/Next_big_thing_151851.html - http://www.guitar-forum.net/uk/Next_big_thing_151851.html . Last month I heard a song on a late night
jazz show on my local radio station and have been edging ever since to
know who made it. Since it's hard to differentiate one jazz song from
another to a non-jazz fan, even the show presenter had no clue what I
was talking about after I called in the next week. The best way I could describe it is an Instrumental cross between smooth 50's jazz and (dont flame me on this) Linkin Park... it's Jazz-Rock-Fusion but the lead Guitar in it wasn't characteristic of many "Jazz-rock" recordings today (still rooted in the original 70s inspiration), but rather, replaced with the marevellously sound engineered Nu-Metal type. Not funky wah-wah. Some vague progressive shred but not the kind of 80's hairband style, more like the electrified melodic bzzzzzzzzvvvvvv of the latest american metal radio hits. Maybe like if Evanescence bought Pat Metheny Trio a new guitar filter for xmas and they used it. Drums weren't at all "groovy" nor too freestyle (far from DreamTh); it was more the classic faster jazz beat (not downtempo open hihat->closed hihat-->open hihat open hihat but the improv cymbal hihats snares). No heavy toms or too much bassdrum. Softer snares. Melody wasnt darkish or even that experimental (like the Bad Plus) but quite uplifting, taking you on a journey, and in my opinion far more talented than Bad plus. Maybe a remake of a 50's jazz hit? It stayed close to Jazz structure and fundamentals, no world ethnic fusion instruments and not many processed electronic synths or effects like acid jazz. It was just good ol smooth fast jazz re-produced in the newer sound. More on the progjazz than metal side. Searching the Net was no help. Maybe together, eyes and ears, we can break this genre right here in this forum! Toolers: ur recommendations, ideas, clues... ------------- --------------------------- Huka to Aghora |
Replies:
Posted By: Dick Heath
Date Posted: October 14 2005 at 09:26
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There are only a handful of jazz rock fusion albums I've come across, which I'll be tempted to suggest had some variants of metal in them: Fire Merchants: Landlords Of Atlantis - which might in places also be called jazz-grunge rock. Shaun Baxter: Jazz Metal (Baxter last appeared in Carl Palmer's band about two years ago - otherwise I thing he teaches in a music college in London)
There is the guitar-free Shining Path and Jonas Hellborg Group, with No Other World and e respectively - line-ups are almost identical, but Shining Path play Hammond-lead death thrash metal while JHG play heavy Hammond-lead jazz rock (heavier than Niacin, who are recommended as another guitar-free heavy fusion band). An obscure jazz rock album release about ten years ago in Austria, Conrad Schrenk's Extravaganza: Save The Robots - there are an increasing number of folk (as the word get passed along the grapevine) thinking this deleted record may have been the best jazz rock fusion album of the last decade. Heavy guitar by Schrenk - Steve Vai with jazz chords - brass rock backing (echoes of Tower of Power and somethimes early Chicago) Specifically Mastermind's Excelsior has a heavy Mahavishnu Orchestra sound about it - The 80's Japanese band Kennedy, Live album goes further and takes Mahavishnu Orchestra's Birds Of Fire making it sound very heavy. Ian Gillan immediately after leaving Deep Purple for the first time, formed Gillan and their early albums have a distinct heavy jazz rock feel about them, e.g. Scarabus, Clear Turbulence, Live At Budakan - in part this down to the freedom Gillan gave his musicians, at least one of whom has subsequently carved a career in jazz/jazz fusion, i.e. Mark Nauseef . About 6 months I got sent a promo of a Canadian band, who have deliberately set out to mix heavy rock guitar with jazz rock (even have a Miles Davis pretender on trumpet) - but my memory fails me to their name, and I'm not at home to pull the CD of the shelf.
Well two handfuls.......................
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Posted By: Logos
Date Posted: October 14 2005 at 10:20
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Jazz - numetal - fusion?
No thanks! |
Posted By: Catholic Flame
Date Posted: October 14 2005 at 11:19
| Tommy Bolin Maybe? |
Posted By: Catholic Flame
Date Posted: October 14 2005 at 11:30
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Or how about http://www.heavymetaljazzconcepts.com/music.html - http://www.heavymetaljazzconcepts.com/music.html |
Posted By: AghoraPhobic
Date Posted: October 14 2005 at 19:05
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None are the band I have in mind but Yessssss getting somewhere-- Dick you really know your jazz fusion! - Couldnt find an audio sample on the net of Fire Merchants that worked with my linux browser but Phil C himself is coming to a concert next month where I live, I'll crash backstage and ask him to track down his old guitar friend from brand x for me. - Shaun Baxter: exactly what I'm trying to get away from! Hairband ;), 80's style shredding & filtering. Really pro engineered though. - JHG on the funky bass side -- red hot chili peppers 90's must've been listening to them too much - Conrad Schrenk also isnt anywhere near what I was originally after but nonetheless a goldmine! Some big happy brass. Now that I heard all the tracks I know why people kudo it as you say. I got the whole album for free at http://omd.musicnavigator.org (all the tracks legal promo download one by one at $0). Cath after looking through it I think ur last link is actually the canadian band Dick got the promo for... They've got their own take on this kind of fusion, still need to master their art but IMO lots of progress from album 1 to 2. Their closest to the track I heard on the radio was http://www.jazzwaves.com/mp3/HMJC-Track4.mp3 -- just imagine replacing the prog Piano with distorted low ptch double guitars with very low harmonics. I think their newest is worth the $ though. Cath you've gotten us closest so far to the genre I got in mind Always hungry for more progworld, keepem coming!! ------------- --------------------------- Huka to Aghora |
Posted By: GoldenSpiral
Date Posted: October 14 2005 at 19:15
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try Dave Martone - A Demon's Dream
------------- http://www.myspace.com/altaic" rel="nofollow - http://www.myspace.com/altaic ALTAIC "Oceans Down You'll Lie" coming soon |
Posted By: Catholic Flame
Date Posted: October 14 2005 at 19:58
He could be it. There are some samples for a different album at http://www.guitar9.com/shutup.html - http://www.guitar9.com/shutup.html |
GoldenSpiral wrote:Posted By: Dick Heath
Date Posted: October 15 2005 at 06:00
That's the band I was struggling to remember the name - thanks! One band you might like, who shread fusion at 200 miles an hour and thereby sound heavy: Electrocution 250 with their album Electric Cartoon Music From Hell (releasedabout 2 years ago on the Welsh label Liquid Note Records of Monmouth, even thoughthe band is Swedish/American) |
Posted By: Dick Heath
Date Posted: October 15 2005 at 06:08
I glad you nailed this one so quickly, it has been deleted for a long time and so very elusive to find as a legitimate version - word of mouth praise has been largely spread with bootleg versions. 666 and 777 tracks are my favourite tunes - and the lift from Fawlty Towers (an odd choice of soundtrack sample for an Austrian band), which later forms the basis for a short music interlude. Conrad Schrenk is a rather strange character - told this album had taken off in the jazz fusion underground in the USA, he was not keen to have it reissued (it might be different now). However, he made a follow up to Save The Robots about 4 years ago - I received a white label version, which with it post-production must have cost Schrenk something, but he still hasn't released it!? |
Posted By: Dick Heath
Date Posted: October 15 2005 at 06:14
Been around a long time, and played jazz rock fusion on the radio since 1973 (8 year lay off when I worked in the real world) - therefore felt the need to keep my horizon wide. Written on the Fusenet jazz rock fusion discussion website (the archives are a goldmine of info - but a lotof spurious dross like this site), probably 5 times longer than I have been here, and always found that to be a great source of info about jazz rock fusion releases world wide. BTW the radio show has broadened out to a mix of prog and anything else local music radio seems incapable of playing, in the last 10 years. |
Posted By: MikeEnRegalia
Date Posted: October 15 2005 at 06:55
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I'm not sure what you mean by numetal - a guitar sound like Limp Bizkit, or simply a modern 90s type of sound? ------------- https://awesomeprog.com/release-polls/pa" rel="nofollow - Release Polls Listened to: 
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Posted By: Logos
Date Posted: October 15 2005 at 07:41
What ? I didn't know Limp Bizkit had a guitarist 
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Posted By: BaldFriede
Date Posted: October 15 2005 at 07:43
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How about "Massacre"? They have a very heavy guitar.
-------------  BaldJean and I; I am the one in blue. |
Posted By: AghoraPhobic
Date Posted: October 15 2005 at 08:35
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Close but no kazoo yet... Dave martone's "nuer" metal guitar has got something going... lower the harmoncs a bit to make u think u'r listening to a bass when u arent, take out his drummer (from 3 Doors Down), add David Brubeck's drummer (from 50's jazz) and you've got the song I heard on the radio. Add some Paul Desmond woodwindz maybe. Melodic "Speed jazz" that isn't corny so u can play when u wake up on a weekend with your gf instead of melodic speed metal the rest of the week. Ron Thal tried to get jazzophiles into his fanbase back with "R2" on 9-11, although the rhythms in this song were more prog-Bossanova than usa jazz and his [otherwise not badly played] guitar sonics were really your standard Jazz-rock-fusion type than harder metal like his tracks on other albums http://www.bumblefoot.com/artist/multimedia/multimedia.htm I guess we'll never know in this forum what that song was, since it was probably done by some long-chart-selling blue note worthy diehard Jazz artist looking for inspiration from numetal pop than the other way around. Go ask the more knowledgeable active jazz fans who'll talk to u all day (mostly bird-watching double-knit-sweater-wearing geriatrics) about who's adding a wee bit harsher sound and they'll panic nooooooooooooooo and go bury their head in a bottle of heart attack pills cause theyre all purists not the younger contemporaries. See you in this thread if we get more ideas! ------------- --------------------------- Huka to Aghora |
Posted By: AghoraPhobic
Date Posted: October 15 2005 at 08:48
Yes thaty's why I quoted limp bizkit... my def of numetal (and there are many different ones I know) is guitars that have the new 2000-later filters (eg aural exciters) applied to them & post production techniques where u have quite a bit of reverb and then in line with the beat you put in a superfast noisegate once in a while -- otherwise u get good ol 90s grunge. I know it's hard 2 describe the sound, because the song i heard had no lyrics (so i cant tell u doom or rap etc) anyway i suppose there would b a big market for this b/c it catches all those people entering 25-30 age range (wanting to explore more deeper softer sides of metal fusions but too young to worship the old jazz greats) so anyone in a band here get experimenting!!!!!!!!!! ------------- --------------------------- Huka to Aghora |
Posted By: Dick Heath
Date Posted: October 15 2005 at 18:29
Have only his Hermit - I can't play the blues, really gets me - but I wouldn't have associated Thal's music here with your original request. Have you tried any of ex Megadeth, Chris Poland's solo albums, while his current jazz rock fusion band Ohm skirts on the heavy. Buckethead.................. |
Posted By: MikeEnRegalia
Date Posted: October 16 2005 at 01:54
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It's good to meet someone else who knows Ron Thal. Buckethead also came to my mind ... still not very Fusion. What about these:
------------- https://awesomeprog.com/release-polls/pa" rel="nofollow - Release Polls Listened to:
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Posted By: BePinkTheater
Date Posted: October 16 2005 at 14:11
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good luck with that one... The closest I'd say is Mahavishnu orchestra...but thats fusion rock, not fusion numetal ------------- I can strangle a canary in a tin can and it would be really original, but that wouldn't save it from sounding like utter sh*t. -Stone Beard |
Posted By: AghoraPhobic
Date Posted: October 16 2005 at 14:45
ok guys all good suggestions (and btw Satriani guests on Rhythm of
Time). I dont want you to blame me for leading us all on a wild
moose
chase but this is starting to go further from the song I fell in love
with. I think maybe I'm to blame because I started referring to "jazz
rock fusion" early on because that's the closest preexisting genre I
could think of to describe it. But now that you think closer, the
composer threw away all what happened with Jazz rock fusion. Do u
remember the Encino Man movie? A leading smooth fast classical jazz
band in the original 50s got trapped in their Kelvinator fridge and
then were thawed out by a 2000s numetal studio engineer who gave them
all these albums to listen to of what music has become, and then their
saxophonist said heyyyyyyyyy I like this and threw away his kit and
picked up a guitar instead. It's like the guitar style and "edgier" fx
& mixdown was the only heavy and new thing there (albeit a
REMARKABLE novel thing), but
all the other instruments, all the bass, drums, piano were old skool.
So they cant be labelled by any category. You cant really shelf them
under classical jazz, jazzrockfusion, or numetal but theyd be in the
jazz section. Grrr u dont have 2 keep trying if it doesnt ring a bell,
please just
kill this thread and move on or I;ll go bezonkers 
------------- --------------------------- Huka to Aghora |