I AM IN HEAVEN! I find myself suddenly thrust into a new universe: one of incredible audio clarity in which the music sounds as if it's coming from within me--and I love it! I've never ever felt this kind of connection and independence with music listening--and for sure never with this kind of sound quality! Why get the audiophile surround-sound stereo setup for a room where you have to sit in one precisely located place in order to "hopefully" hear your music (who knows what other sounds in the house or neighborhood might invade and/or encroach upon the purity of your musical listening experience) when you can be cocooned in your own warm little audiosphere while remaining fully ambulatory!???

My favorite songs and albums from 2022 (which I'm listening to a lot right now due to end-of-year shows, charts and lists) sound SO MUCH BETTER than they did on my previous Sony headphones. I am on such a high!

One problem: I'm really going to miss my wife.

Has anyone else here experienced such a radical transformation in their music-listening life? I mean, I thought Mobile Fidelity pressings and Japanese-pressed 100% virgin vinyl albums, sub-woofers, Magnapan ribbon speakers and Culver's holographic sound were amazingly revolutionary sound experiences, but this . . .  this tops them all!

Thanks, Nick! By the sounds of things, you are in a far different league than I am--the place I may have been moving toward in the 1980s (before marriage and children). But you may be right: this may just be the beginning of my audio technological advances, investments, and improvements!

Happy New Year

Sounds awesome Drew!! I only use headphones when I travel, planes and such...drowns out all the bitchy snot nosed kids screaming on flights .

As you know I'm a straight 2-channel, vinyl speakers listener kinda dude!

Enjoy the music!

Hey Nick!! Happy New Year.......Are you diggin that A&K?? I've been thinking of one of them, interested in your thoughts.

Join the club man, I've done some upgrading to the rig this year as well. Added a separate power amplifier the Parasound A21+, insane what that has done to my overall sound. Loads of headroom and current amps, massive toroid transformer, I'm probably set now in that dept.

Also just took delivery of new turntable, the ProJect Xtension 10 Evolution.....All my records sound amazing, new and I'm hearing so much more details burried in the grooves, 3D imaging is cra-cra!

Have fun with those D8000, those have to be insanely sweet!!!

I will not doubt the quality of the headphones ... however, I will question something else, a bit similar, that explains a lot of the music we call "progressive".

I don't believe that "vinyl" is the answer or the "it" when it comes to this or that. I, sincerely, doubt that headsets are also the "it" here or there.

One of the things that most folks never heard, is, a great stereo system that showed the music in a way that most of us can not even imagine, and the difference is not something that mp3, or a headset can define at all ... even though it might make what you have "better" for your ears.

When I bought my Heil AMT 1 speakers in 1975, one of the tests was the English pressing of PHAEDRA which was superior to that of the American version (so was Sgt Peppers, DSOTM and many others -- that we burned money for re-thisandthat ... that were copies of the original pressings, not the copies.

The speakers, which were played through a system that was at least twice better than mine own, (cost was $2500 for it ... my receiver was $1400 alone then - a "Concept" receiver.), and the sound was clean. To prove my point, the guy even said that the Beatles sounded good on those speakers ... and he had the American LP and played it, and it was very muddy in places. I brought out (a day later) the English version and he was astounded, and felt cheated that the American market was so crass as to try and hurt the music!

I've said all along that the mp3 thing wasn't enough ... and combine it with the majority of folks that have never heard what a supreme sound system was like, you get a lot of folks thinking that the next pair of headsets are God, or that the next effort by SW is like God coming home.

I'm not sure that is possible. We forget that one of the great things of massive speakers and a great stereo is that its interplay with the room waves is one of the "secrets" that carry it and make the music so special ... no headset I have ever heard can touch that, and it includes many special sets that were intended for "studio work", that I tried and tested, and two of those were over $1K each. They were really good, but had no "soul", even though they were very sensitive to minor details in the music. Perfect for someone working the board of a band, I suppose, during recording. But since when do rock bands show something special different than what everyone else does? They all "sound" the same so they can be just another commercial item out there and sell and make you believe they are good! 

Few people here, will even admit, that with their stereo system (above average, and we're talking a receiver at least $1200/$1500 and a pair of speakers that can handle such power, a lot of the beauty of the music is how it flies through the room you are in ... take the whole thing to a square bedroom, and it will sound totally different. Take it outside, and it will sound totally different, and that is one of the great mechanics of the recording magic that we are not capable of dealing with ... and thus, a different set of headphones that makes you imagine something different, a veritable SW on your ears, will sound good, although if you are to get the stuff from bandchit, or any other site out there ... the chances of you hearing something special and above "normal" is impossible.

Catcher 10 needs to get some of the RCA RED SEAL albums from the 60's and early 70's up until they did TOMITA so he can hear something special ... the ability has been there a long time, and Alan Parsons merely applied that theory and ability to PF, which made it special for a rock band even more, though one could say that the Beatles already had it, but not so much of their music had the atmospherics to help it along. Which made for a "studio" album extraordinaire, and it showed, and can be seen in the LET IT BE special, though it is not as visible as it should have been.

It all started with classical music being recorded better and better, and it was in the 60's when this started, and there is a reason why so many composers rose up high in those days ... they made the music stronger and better and the recordings showed it, and we went nuts over it, because we have never heard anything that great before, and then rock music came along, followed by jazz, the sad version of American music that was horribly ignored and racially disliked, and whose music went on to inspire so many folks the world over.

Technology can do some wonderful things, but it can not improve on something that IS NOT THERE and that is the danger of something that supposedly makes it all "better". In many ways, you don't want it to be better, you just want it to be clear so you can enjoy it more. You don't need a stereo or a headset for that ... if the music has it within itself, it will shine regardless of how and where you hear it.

Drew...enjoy the sound man !

Yes. That was when I moved from SoundBlaster Audigy II to a proper audio interface.

Hi,

Of course, we all want Drew to enjoy the music, not take away his pleasure!

There is a side of music that is strictly by the artist himself/herself that no one else can touch, and there is no headset or studio recording board that can touch it ... the artist's piece is the magic, not exactly the song writing, as much as the quality of the artist delivering his/her piece. And it is that 'quality" that we remember the most and that is not a part of the songwriting, though we think it is, since it could just as easily be an attitude that was found during recording ... you can ask Mick about that easily! Same for David Bowie in that story on Edgar Froese's book ... cancelled the session, since David had not "found his voice" yet on the piece he was doing. The song was there, more than likely, but something in his delivery was not clicking and he kept at it until he found it. 

I'm just afraid to see headsets being thought of as what makes music great ... although it will sound magnificent for out ears ... c'mon, put on DSOTM on those things ... it will sound wonderful. Even better, put on Sgt Pepper's (the English LP pressing would be best!), or to prevent boredom, get that Tomita album done on the Red Seal to get your ears totally reorganized and screwed up when it comes to sound! It's almost ... beyond music! A massively well done piece of classical music in what we could say was a new 'style", and it is just ...crazy insanely great!

Hi, 

Nothing was said that it could not make the experience great ... what I was saying is that thinking that the headset is the reason for the greatness, is over rated and not fair to the artistry of the music itself!

We're getting stuck on the technology, and ignoring the art itself! Is all I'm saying. 

Heck, for many years I had a very expansive Sony set of headphones, for a reason ... they were the best almost 40 years ago, but I would not go so far as to say that Pink Floyd, Amon Duul 2, Can, Tangerine Dream, Klaus Schulze (specially!!!! ... wait until Drew tries that headset on KS!), and so many other greats out there did not have it  ... it just made rock'n'roll sound and look not only silly, but also stupid!

Pedro,

Your kinda all over the place here.....I tend to get what you mean but in one breath you state vinyl and mp3 are not it and that headphones are not a way to get immersed in the music, unlike speakers.

Your contradicting yourself......if not vinyl (clearly NEVER will it be mp3) what media works for you?? Then you tell me I need to find some RCA red seal vinyl from the 60/70s??

A well put together stereo system's role with music is to portray the music as effortlessly and transparent as possible, so you can hear all the details the artist and recording engineer put in the music. You could have the most technically perfect pc of music written down/composed on paper, but you will never experience the emotion that composition has if your stereo system cannot bring that music to life.

Hey Nick, what HP amp are you using with your new ear toys?? 

Hi,

The medium/media IS NOT THE MESSAGE. 

THE MUSIC IS!

I'm of the opinion that speakers can do it better, as we were brought up with them, and the main reason has to do with the room acoustics and the speakers, themselves. YOU GOTTA REMEMBER ... that it will sound DIFFERENT if you put your stereo in a small square room, or outside in your lawn ... you won't ever do that to check it out, but the album (or CD) will have a small slight different feel to it, and you find out quickly that the ambience is the issue.

You kinda lose the ambience in the headset, although some folks, like SW have a tendency to create that ambience by having the instruments, all of a sudden in a different place in your ear! That's kinda similar to what was done with the orchestras in the 60's, that you won't take a look at. The Red Seal was the standard that "made" Abbey Road's fame and then up to PF ... but you will never credit the technological advances done to get the orchestras recorded way before rock music got into it, and the money was available for a rock band and not for an orchestra anymore! BTW, the rock thing would be way cheaper, too! Geeeeeee ... what a surprise!

Catcher10 wrote: ... Your contradicting yourself......if not vinyl (clearly NEVER will it be mp3) what media works for you?? Then you tell me I need to find some RCA red seal vinyl from the 60/70s?? ...

I'm not sure I am contradicting myself ... but I do think that folks are confusing the ambience of the music itself, with an imaginary choice made in re-mastering, and then some fancy headsets. 

For it to "work right", the music itself HAS TO HAVE THE "MAGIC" in it, and no speakers or headset will ever make it better, just slightly different. 

And I find it strange/weird, that in this commercial world, all we can think about when it comes to an art ... is ... a headset ... or a speaker ... or something else in the future. 

In the end, you are not talking about the art of the music at all ... you are talking about some technology that gives you an idea that it is better, so it has the justification for its price! 

C'mon ... you know damn well that for me, the music is the secret ... not anything else!

And yes, you need to see about the Red Seal stuff ... its design and technology is STILL way further ahead than what most people have ever heard and understood about music ... but most of us are rockers and we don't give a sh*t about the history of recording and how it happened ... all of a sudden Alan Parsons is not that big a deal when there were engineers far better doing classical music in many places ... wake up dude ... this stuff was happening before rock music made money and some ash-hole decided that long hairs could not have a hit on the radio!

Hi,

The difficult side of it for me, having been into music for 60 years, is finding out that folks have no idea what Alan Parsons was doing, and still think he invented sliced bread! He did WITH a rock band, exactly what was being done with the very best of the classical folks out there. There is no way that Karajan, Bernstein, Metha, Leinsdorf and so many others would have recorded the famous stuff they did without it ... in fact, it was also thought that they had to upgrade and improve things to fit Nilsson/Tebaldi, a huge choir and a cast of hundreds in a recording, yet it was done! BTW, this even goes back to Stokowski who was famous for reorganizing the orchestra so he could get better/different effects for the music he was conducting. PDQ Bach did a show I saw where he started by shifting around all the musicians on the stage with the big drums up front for fun, and the kazoos in the back! It worked magnificently! You have no idea!

And then, the technology went further up the scale and are starting to distort VERY BADLY what the music is all about, and the day will come when you go see a band on stage and you are going to be upset, because the setup that you heard is all screwed up and wrong on stage, and the guitar won't sound as good as it did way far out of proportion from the rest!

I'm not suggesting that speakers are better than headsets ... however, if one studies acoustics, the air between 2 places are an issue, and a headset takes that out completely, because all of a sudden it is STATIC and at the whim of the engineer and his instrument placement in regards to your ear pieces. I personally, don't mind that, but ... people don't seem to know that if you are on a stage, and there are 15 different spots, the delivery will not be the same in all 15, which makes the headset just about ... whimsical ... whereas I tend to thing this is not quite true in speakers. This is definitely true with SW ... and his manipulation of the instruments to give you the idea that the music is better ... so you go buy it!

Oh yea, I've seen and demo Woo Audio at an audio show once, very cool gear and I remember it had a very pleasing and organic sound.

Yes I added a new power amplifier back in August, the Parasound A21+ Class A/AB. 8 watts in Class A then switches to Class AB for up to 500 wpc, massive toroid transformer at 1.3kVA gives it huge reserves for all those transient dynamic peaks and 60 amps peak current per channel make my speakers sing oh so nice! Damn thing weighs over 70lbs .

Last month added a new turntable as well the Project Xtension 10 Evolution, my records are on another level now Bro! I'll PM u a pic of the rig....

If someone thinks the "music" is better, then they don't understand.....The music will not be better, but for sure the sound of the music can be better (too subjective), I prefer that the sound of the music can be more engaging so I do BUY IT! SW is one of many who can manipulate a recording to be more engaging because the original mix engineer may have missed that mark.

Hi,

I'm not sure I like this statement. It's tough, and if you go back and watch the Tom Dowd special, and then the George Martin special (with him not the other crap'r!) ... you will know that people all along have been trying really hard to make anything sound better, and then Alan Parsons applied the general classic theory to Pink Floyd and everyone thought sliced bread was invented. It did sound great, but it had to do with the band's slower level of playing than any rock music out there ... it gave the engineer TIME to be able to make things sound better!

The engaging side of things is different. Something in my head set, including 4 different versions of something, which you can do with classical music and various conductors, and way better than 99% of rock bands out there, is a bit of an illusion, since ... if the music itself DOES NOT BRING YOU WITH IT, it will not matter how good or clever the engineer was with the piece!

You got to remember that. I think you are caught up in an imaginary view of the music displayed differently that you think defines the music and its own world ... but I sincerely doubt that any of this "manipulation" has anything to do with the source of the music itself ... and how it grabs you ... it doesn't matter if it is Strauss, Beethoven, Mozart, or SheepDipBand ... the music itself has to "have it" ... or it will sound like SW doing the recent PT album ... great mechanics in the recording ... lousy design and improvement for the music itself ... what is all this about? PT or SW? ... I think it came off as SW, not PT, and that is unfair to Richard and Gavin, who sounded very ordinary ... in fact the drumming sounded like it was mailed in! Gavin was way better with KC ... very poor in this album, and it suggests that the music itself was not that good or well defined and designed ... and SW tried to make it better, but the music did not come up with it.

You have to remember and understand the music that we hear is NOTHING like what was played in the studio during the recording. You have nothing to compare it to, you were not in the studio during the recording, you were not in the studio during the mixdown, nor were you in the studio during the mastering portion.....You and all of us only have what was released, that's the only music we know. You can't really believe that GMartin or AParsons had a version that was better but chose something different that ultimately was not the best, how on earth....??

We only have what was ultimately released, that's all. 

And what SW or Bernie Grundman, Kevin Gray and other current mastering engineers can do is simply remix the original recording to bring out more sounds that may be buried, and it's only opinion if that sounds better. But in a lot of cases it can make it more engaging to the original mix, is the "music" any better?? I argue no, it will never be better or worse, it is what it is because we don't have all the original studio recordings released to the public to compare to....Some box sets have alternate takes, and those tend to be very raw but it is rare those are the ones people prefer.

Hi,

Not sure why you think that the "recording" of it is the thing. The point, in most recordings, is to get the best out of it all ... and this is fine with me ... I have no beef with that. What bothers me, is the earphone and mp3 generation thinking that the music is not as important as the mixing and the work the engineer did ... and this is the reason why I say ... the music has to have it! ... in which case it would not matter what SW, or anyone else did to it ... however, when you hear George Martin talk about many of his folks, there were moments when he decided on changes, because he thought it would bring things out better ... a classical music composer, does not have this as much, but it is possible that many helped ... and it stuck.

When looking at the music itself, rock music is a lousy comparison. If you listen to 4 different versions of The Rite of Spring, you will learn why real quick ... either the conductor or the direction for a recording engineer might have suggested something or other ... but the power, strength and beauty of the music? Right there ... it never left!

That is not to say that headphones are not worth it ... I just am not convinced that they are the "IT" when it comes to the music itself ... and no one here has the guts to go check out some classical music and how it is interpreted and done so they would have a much better feel, or thought, for what I am saying.

But, again, the music itself has to have it, though one has to give some folks a wee bit of credit for what they found and helped put together, and here Tom Dowd and George Martin were very important, but they were not the only ones ... and a redo, or a better headphone is not going to change the beauty of the music and how it was done. We don't even realize that Layla was a Tom Dowd discovery and he got both guys to improve it some ... to make one of the great famous songs come alive! Hearing on Tom's special and hands, it is spectacular, but it took his ears to hear it and make sure he taped it and then brought it to the guys!

Headphones at that point is not the issue ... the person finding the "real" music is, and that is what usually survives and is remembered the most.

They were a waste of money - I can still hear her.