Black Midi - Hellfire
Printed From: Progarchives.com
Category: Progressive Music Lounges
Forum Name: Prog Recommendations/Featured albums
Forum Description: Make or seek recommendations and discuss specific prog albums
URL: http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=129343
Printed Date: March 04 2025 at 05:40
Software Version: Web Wiz Forums 11.01 - http://www.webwizforums.com
Topic: Black Midi - Hellfire
Posted By: Saperlipopette!
Subject: Black Midi - Hellfire
Date Posted: July 18 2022 at 14:26
|
Times are bad, we're all gonna die (soon), but it's still a good time to be alive - because of Black Midi -I really enjoyed Professor Skye's 80 minute long "review". Not necessarily an expert on music as such (he plays the drums though, which is more than I can do), but this professor knows loads of other relevant stuff. He take his time before he gets to the actual music/album though: ...Come to hell with me as I talk about Faulkner, Céline, Spike Lee, Rabelais and eventually even Black Midi themselves. Instrumentation, vocals and a gloriously fractured narrative... Edit: The "Hellfire listening party" video is made private - which is understandable (but just listen to the three singles they dropped from prior to the release). I'll post the Needledrop video instead. More effective - but still informed and intelligent... and very positive. I don't need people telling me this is great and neither does any of you. But I must say I've hugely enjoyed adopting a little of the Faulkner/Rabelais etc... approach into Hellfire's thrilling concept - whilst listening. |
Replies:
Posted By: Saperlipopette!
Date Posted: July 18 2022 at 14:29
|
Also this 3,5 star review of the song Welcome to Hell (by furbyfancock on RYM): I’d heard
Welcome to Hell before, both in-person at a live show and from various
bootleg recordings on YouTube, but it wasn’t until they officially
released it a few days ago that I listened to it intently. And while a
few individual sections that I’m not a huge fan of prevent this from
dethroning my current favorite black midi song, Slow, I've become
increasingly impressed with how the band seems to achieve an incredible
level of cohesion in this track despite the absurd amount of ideas they
pack into its four minutes.
The song opens with a brief introduction featuring a descending octave figure repeated twice in full. The third time, the lower E doesn’t come, and instead Simpson enters with a brief fill and a surprisingly normal drum groove. It’s clear things won’t be all that simple though - behind it, you can hear the whistling of a falling bomb. As usual, the band then cycles through a number of riffs, varying widely in mood and style. The first is an ascending chromatic figure [0:11], initially just in unison but later expanded to parallel tritones when the vocals enter [0:26]. The riff shares some minor similarities with the opening octave figure, with the low droning bass E landing on the second eighth beat, an offbeat, making the already tense chromatic atmosphere even more unsettling. A brief transition with the guitar strumming the last D-G# tritone [0:40] leads into a new chord progression [0:41]: E major – B-flat dominant 7 – E-flat major – A dominant 7. The roots of these chords, if paired up, form chromatically descending tritones. This new section has a slightly more playful tone, almost like the background music to some Cyriak animation. Another transition, this time an ascending chromatic bit (C – C# – D) derived from the first riff but played two times and twice as fast [0:55], and we’re back to the parallel tritones of the first riff [0:56]. They alternate between the single-note and parallel tritone versions of the riff at [1:03]. Some chaotic piano smashing brings extra flashes of color. At [1:11] we move to new, slightly more serene material that could have been lifted right out of Slow. The chords here are delicious: C# minor 11 – C dominant 7 flat 5. The relative calm, however, is punctuated every two bars by the rhythmic figure of the transition at [0:55], accentuated with the snare. [1:21] again changes things up slightly, introducing a new chord progression anchored by the chromatic moving line D – C# – C – C#. This all builds into [1:29], a return of the material introduced in the transition at [0:55] and hinted at throughout the section at [1:11]. This time though, the C – C# – D is thickened to parallel tritones like the first riff. The tritone figures are interspersed with the guitar playing just E following the same rhythm. A beat of silence, and the chord progression from [0:41] is back at [1:33], which leads into a symphonic rock-like passage at [1:47]. The melody here is arguably derived from the first riff, with the chromatically ascending line inverted: E – C – C# – D => E – C – B – B-flat. This section doesn’t last long before transitioning to a near-repeat of the section at [0:56], but with a more abrasive guitar tone and some subtle additions (like the repeated high E’s on piano) expanding the sound. [2:06] brings us to an elaboration of the material at [1:29] (itself an elaboration on the snippet at [0:55]), where the last half-bar is replaced with a figure that first ascends and then descends chromatically. Everything also seems to be shifted up a half-step, though that’s a minor detail. A short drum solo follows at [2:20]. The guitar then comes in at [2:24] with a solo that bears some semblance to the brief transition at [0:40] and to the passage at [1:29], alternating between the low E and strumming the D-G# tritone. The drums and guitar have a bit of a dialogue until the return of the vocals at [2:32]. The guitar continues its riff, never quite settling into a predictable rhythmic pattern, and the other instruments join in to add to the cacophony. At [2:47], we hear the passage from [1:47] again, this time played for twice as long. They hang on to the last note, embellishing it with some saxophone wails. Then, the whole band bursts in again at [3:06] even faster and more aggressive than before. The guitar material here, C – B – B-flat and F – F# – G, is of course made up of a descending and ascending chromatic line of three notes, the descending line identical to the melody at [1:47] and [2:47]. There’s a brief detour at [3:14] with arpeggiated major 7th chords. [3:27] is a sped-up repeat of [1:29], and [3:30] to [3:43] sees the band noodle around with the chord progression of [0:41]. At [3:43], the band plays what is essentially chromatically descending parallel tritones but broken up into their constituent notes, much like the chord progression of the preceding section. [3:50] is back to that chord progression at its original tempo, now with gnarly guitar solos sprinkled in. The material from [0:55]/[1:29]/[2:06] pops up again at [4:05], and the song ends almost exactly as it began [4:06], but this time we finally get that last low E we expected. This whole rambling mess of a review could probably be deleted and summed up in one sentence: intentionally or not, black midi achieves an impressive degree of coherence and unity in Welcome to Hell, despite switching things up almost every 15 seconds, by cleverly foreshadowing later ideas within earlier passages and using a few fundamental musical units – namely an ascending chromatic figure of three notes and the tritone – as building blocks for much of the material they present. This is vaguely the sort of motivic economy that classical composers like Beethoven and Mahler and Medtner are praised for, but while those artists admittedly maintain it throughout larger-scale and more complex works lasting between 20 minutes to well over an hour, they don’t often evoke (and probably didn’t try to evoke) the delicate balance between pure chaos and structural cohesion black midi manages here. Of course, none of my questionable and uneducated over-analysis means the music is actually enjoyable. That you’ll have to decide for yourself. (Note that all timestamps come from the album recording and not the one in the music video.) |
Posted By: Nogbad_The_Bad
Date Posted: July 18 2022 at 15:22
|
It's probably going to end up as my favorite black midi album and I'm a huge fan. It keeps opening up to me. Lots of wonderful stuff going on. ------------- Ian Host of the Post-Avant Jazzcore Happy Hour on Progrock.com https://podcasts.progrock.com/post-avant-jazzcore-happy-hour/ |
Posted By: Grumpyprogfan
Date Posted: July 18 2022 at 15:24
Not a band for me. Capable musicians but I don't like the noise (an integral part of the music used as an effect) the talky lyrics, or the compositions. Glad you're enjoying it.  I'm really enjoying the new release from Bubblemath. Rarely discussed, reviewed, or rated. The lost gem of prog.
|
Posted By: Stressed Cheese
Date Posted: July 18 2022 at 16:12
| I'm really looking forward to listening to it. The CD has arrived in the mail, but I won't be home for a bit so I gotta wait a few days. I deliberately did not listen to the third single (and only listened to the other two once) in order not to spoil myself, and have not listened to any of the tracks in their earlier live incarnations. I'm hoping it will live up to Cavalcade and maybe have a bit less compression (Welcome to Hell sounded better to me than Cavalcade at least). |
Posted By: Saperlipopette!
Date Posted: July 19 2022 at 01:09
|
Stressed Cheese wrote:Posted By: Trickster F.
Date Posted: July 19 2022 at 01:26
|
Saw them perform some of the new songs live last week - great material! ------------- sig |
Posted By: Nogbad_The_Bad
Date Posted: July 19 2022 at 02:14
They are playing Boston while on vacation in England, bugger. ------------- Ian Host of the Post-Avant Jazzcore Happy Hour on Progrock.com https://podcasts.progrock.com/post-avant-jazzcore-happy-hour/ |
Posted By: Gentle and Giant
Date Posted: July 19 2022 at 08:09
|
I loved Cavalcade (and Schlagenheim before it), but Hellfire is on another level - it really is fantastic. These guys are still in their early 20s too, crazy. ------------- Oh, for the wings of any bird, other than a battery hen |
Posted By: Saperlipopette!
Date Posted: July 19 2022 at 08:17
|
Posted By: miamiscot
Date Posted: July 19 2022 at 08:37
|
Can't wait to see/hear what they do next. Incredible band. ------------- The Prog Corner |
Posted By: richardh
Date Posted: July 20 2022 at 10:46
| Other than the usual suspects it was the only band at Glasto that I had some knowledge of. Their hour long set is on the BBC I player. Just mention it as they are a lot of fun to watch although I'm not sure how much I enjoy the music itself. For me they are a little bit like the Mars Volta , a bit manic and random at times. |
Posted By: Gentle and Giant
Date Posted: July 20 2022 at 11:40
I watched the Glastonbury set and good it was - the crowd were a little subdued though. Squid were very good at this years Glasto too. ------------- Oh, for the wings of any bird, other than a battery hen |
Posted By: Zeph
Date Posted: July 21 2022 at 11:35
| I've had a few listens, but need more time and listens where I'm not distracted. So far my impression is that I really like it and it has a lot of stuff going on that takes time to discover. |
Posted By: Nogbad_The_Bad
Date Posted: July 21 2022 at 11:47
|
This is all accurate for me ------------- Ian Host of the Post-Avant Jazzcore Happy Hour on Progrock.com https://podcasts.progrock.com/post-avant-jazzcore-happy-hour/ |
Posted By: King of Loss
Date Posted: July 21 2022 at 23:44
Just saw them play in Boston tonight. Very rowdy show. Loved every single bit of it as I was the very large mosh pit!  Hellfire is definitely my album of the year.
|
Posted By: Nogbad_The_Bad
Date Posted: July 22 2022 at 01:02
Would have loved to have been there but currently in UK. How was the venue? Paradise Rock Club, right? I don't really like the sight lines there, seemed a very odd shape when I saw GYBE there. ------------- Ian Host of the Post-Avant Jazzcore Happy Hour on Progrock.com https://podcasts.progrock.com/post-avant-jazzcore-happy-hour/ |
Posted By: Mirakaze
Date Posted: July 22 2022 at 02:19
|
Only one listen so far and it's not quite grabbing me as much as Cavalcade, but to be fair that album also took several listens before its beauty truly sank in with me so I'm expecting something similar to happen with this one. My favourite songs so far are "Sugar/Tzu" and "Welcome To Hell" ------------- https://mirasnelder.wordpress.com/" rel="nofollow - Freelance composer, accepting commissions | https://mirasnelder.bandcamp.com/album/altered-acuity" rel="nofollow - Bandcamp page |
Posted By: Saperlipopette!
Date Posted: July 22 2022 at 02:57
|
Posted By: King of Loss
Date Posted: July 22 2022 at 07:27
This is the second time I've seen them. The Paradise Rock Club is not my favorite venue, but they were great live. Probably would have preferred the Sinclair or something else.
|
Posted By: King of Loss
Date Posted: July 25 2022 at 14:16
It is already my favorite Black midi album. Huge fan as well. I just ordered it on red vinyl. Probably will get a lot of play.
|
Posted By: Nogbad_The_Bad
Date Posted: July 25 2022 at 14:48
I saw them on the previous tour at the Sinclair, much better venue. ------------- Ian Host of the Post-Avant Jazzcore Happy Hour on Progrock.com https://podcasts.progrock.com/post-avant-jazzcore-happy-hour/ |
Posted By: Gentle and Giant
Date Posted: July 25 2022 at 14:53
|
I think I've played this album 15-20 times by now and it still impresses me. I don't normally give an album so much attention, but this has really gripped me. The start of 'The Race Is About to Begin' gave me goosebumps today that lasted throughout this amazing song - it so ferocious I feel worn out after hearing it, thankfully the end is a bit calmer. But every song on this album is truly superb. Can black midi top this album, let's hope so? ------------- Oh, for the wings of any bird, other than a battery hen |
Posted By: King of Loss
Date Posted: July 25 2022 at 15:35
It's going to be tough since I gave it a perfect rating!
 |
Posted By: Stressed Cheese
Date Posted: July 27 2022 at 16:45
|
Okay I was finally able to get to my mail and get the CD. Really enjoyed listening to it and going back to some of the stand-out tracks while reading the lyrics (normally not something I care for but black midi's are pretty interesting). This makes Cavalcade look tame in comparison, but it's going to take a couple of listens to decide which of the two albums I prefer. But good god is this a rough listen as a headphones user. Definitely have a pretty bad case of tinnitus going on now, lol
|
Posted By: Lewian
Date Posted: July 28 2022 at 08:00
|
I have a somewhat difficult relation to black midi. I like their general approach and there are many parts that are really great, but they regularly throw in some stuff that annoys me and distracts me from the good things they're doing. Occasionally they seem to do stuff with the primary motivation to piss off simple minds, and I'm not particularly keen on that attitude. The vocals are for sure an acquired taste for me. After having seen their Glastonbury gig I have heard Hellfire once now, and I seem to get more into it as it goes on. I may ultimately end up liking it quite a bit, I see the potential, but I have to work my way into it. |
Posted By: Nogbad_The_Bad
Date Posted: July 28 2022 at 08:08
|
I think all of that is probably true, and I still love it! ------------- Ian Host of the Post-Avant Jazzcore Happy Hour on Progrock.com https://podcasts.progrock.com/post-avant-jazzcore-happy-hour/ |
Posted By: King of Loss
Date Posted: July 28 2022 at 10:32
|
Yeah, I think it is probably hard for a lot of people to get into it, especially if they aren't used to avant-prog or experimental rock, but I think hopefully more people will enjoy it! Btw, I just received the red vinyl in the mail. Will probably spin it all week!
|
Posted By: Zeph
Date Posted: July 28 2022 at 15:08
|
It took a bit to get used to it, but helped that I started listening to BCNR and Squid at the same time. I like Cavalcade even better now that I’ve listened to Hellfire and get a better feeling for their sound and style. The vocals was a hill to climb at first, but now I love it. Many of my favourite parts are when you are bombarded with lyrics. Like the title track of Hellfire. They have an edge, but that just makes it more interesting. There’s enough vanilla music out there. |
Posted By: King of Loss
Date Posted: July 28 2022 at 17:51
Yeah, definitely. Too much vanilla music....
  |
Posted By: tupan
Date Posted: July 28 2022 at 17:54
|
Listened to it and... It's excellent, one of the best albums released in 2022! ------------- "Prog is Not Dead and never has been." (Will Sergeant, from Echo And The Bunnymen) |
Posted By: King of Loss
Date Posted: July 28 2022 at 18:52
I put it up there with one of the best records of this decade... So far. We'll see how time determines the first 3 black midi records.
 |
Posted By: BrufordFreak
Date Posted: July 29 2022 at 18:27
^This^!!! ------------- Drew Fisher https://progisaliveandwell.blogspot.com/ |
Posted By: BrufordFreak
Date Posted: August 01 2022 at 14:52
|
Man, this is going to take some listens in order to peel back the layers and appreciate the musicianship and compositional skills. I'll say one thing from the first couple of listens, this is the album they needed to exploit their esteemed/award-winning band member, drummer Morgan Simpson. I think I'm most impressed at how different it is from either/both Schlagenheim and Cavalcade. And by their tight, precise cohesion--even at inhuman speeds. ------------- Drew Fisher https://progisaliveandwell.blogspot.com/ |
Posted By: miamiscot
Date Posted: August 02 2022 at 07:44
|
Here's my take... ------------- The Prog Corner |
Posted By: suitkees
Date Posted: August 07 2022 at 09:02
|
So, because of the buzz, I gave this album a listen. An enjoyable listen, that's for sure, but I'm not that enthused as others. Again, it is quite an enjoyable album, but it also comes over to me as a bit too mannerist: style and tempo changes for the style and tempo changes. I guess their live performances might be more interesting than their studio efforts, but that's just a guess. A good album, but personally I don't consider this a masterpiece.
------------- The razamataz is a pain in the bum |
Posted By: edefakiel
Date Posted: September 12 2022 at 23:18
|
Guys, I seriously think that you should listen to this: http://thecallousdaoboys.bandcamp.com/album/celebrity-therapist-2" rel="nofollow - https://thecallousdaoboys.bandcamp.com/album/celebrity-therapist-2 It is way heavier than Hellfire, but I think that both bands have many things in common. I really enjoyed this, more than Hellfire.
|
Posted By: Saperlipopette!
Date Posted: September 13 2022 at 05:39
|
Posted By: Saperlipopette!
Date Posted: September 13 2022 at 06:11
Hm, listened once and found it occasionally fun and entertaining, but to me not on the same artistic level. Nowhere near really. The way I see it Black Midi knows how to write a memorable tune, create a strong concept + intriguing lyrics, ewoke emotions etc... in addition to their impressive musicianship. I think they are the complete package. The Callous Daoboys imo, surely knows how to pack a punch - but not a whole lot more. I wasn't too fond of the constant screaming either - as it felt like he was screaming every word without really knowing why they all nedded to be screamed. Still I preferred that over the clean and "pretty" melodic singing parts. Sorry, that came out a little too harsh. Not uninteresting. Maybe next time.
|
Posted By: edefakiel
Date Posted: September 13 2022 at 07:55
Don't worry about it being harsh. It was an articulated opinion and you have the right to not enjoy some particular music. I, for example, can't understand why Hellfire doesn't click with me, as I loved Cavalcade with all my heart. Some albums are just not made for one, I guess. Still, I think that black midi is a band of excellent musicians. There are some rough edges in Celebrity Therapist, sure, but I'm really interested in seeing what they create next. And I feel towards this album like I felt towards Cavalcade; I'm very much entertained and impressed by it. I believe that may be an overlap among black midi and The Callous Daoboys enjoyers, that is why I thought that it was justified to share the latter here. I regard this as being at the top of the game in this new wave of music: |
Posted By: Saperlipopette!
Date Posted: September 13 2022 at 10:10
Thanks! For most of the parts I didn't quote. Yes, fully justified. There's an overlap. I always check out what the kids in the comment section say in my "second online home" RYM, and there was this "review" by punk_revolution_now (a total knob, obviously) starting: "what black midi fans think black midi is, but too complex for black midi fans to be fully capable of enjoying." ...and the comment section responds: -Punk Revolution Now is the biggest poser on the planet. [4] -"Shout out to prn getting all these black midi fans seething lmao" +also -who the f**k says black midi fans can't enjoy this, what ...etc etc - so yes highly relevant:) |
Posted By: chopper
Date Posted: September 13 2022 at 12:08
| Picked up the CD at HMV earlier today. I played the first few tracks on Spotify and it was a real wtf moment, to be honest. One of the maddest things I've ever heard. Looking forward to studying the rest of it in detail. |
Posted By: Stressed Cheese
Date Posted: September 14 2022 at 05:55
No offense, but this isn't similar to Hellfire at all IMO. Completely different genre (extreme metal, as opposed to Hellfire's Avant-Rock/Fusion combination), different vocal style (more bombastic/screamy, with the kind of teenage angst tone and harmonies if you know what I mean), much more straightforward instrumentation as opposed to Hellfire's million overlapping instruments, it's going for a completely different emotion/vibe than anything off Hellfire... There's a quirky thing here or there at the beginning of the song, but that's about it. The louder/weirder moments of Hellfire (like the endings to Eat Men Eat or Dangerous Liaisons, or parts of 27 Questions) are more akin to Zappa than to extreme metal. I can see how someone who enjoys black midi would enjoy these guys, but they're not even in the same genre ballpark.
A lot of twists and turns sound weird the first time you hear them, but they make more sense on repeated listens. That goes for a lot of prog albums honestly. Get 'Em Out By Friday feels just as, if not more, random than anything from this album. But once I got used to them and knew what was coming up, it became clear to be how tight these arrangements are. Songs like 27 Questions sound like a mish-mash of different themes and ideas at first, but once they click they'll make as much sense as the simplest pop songs. They might still not be to your taste, but nothing here is X for the sake of X. Live performance-wise the arrangements tend not to be too different, apart from not having the studio there to layer god knows how many different sounds. They sound like rather skeletal versions of the studio tracks IMO.
|
Posted By: chopper
Date Posted: September 14 2022 at 07:47
|
Just read the lyrics to Sugar/Tzu. If I've got this right it's a boxing match in 2163 and a three foot tall guy shoots one of the boxers in the back and gets sentenced to life. Should make a great film.
|
Posted By: Gentle and Giant
Date Posted: September 14 2022 at 07:55
|
I read this on NME about Eat Men Eat. These guys certainly have a vivid imagination: “The story starts in the desert with two men engaged in a desperate search for missing friends,” Picton said of the song’s inspiration in a press release. “Their quest leads them to a strange mining facility which, despite a dearth of natural resources in the area, opens its doors for even stranger hosts to welcome them. “That evening, with zero sign of their friends, a massive feast is laid on by the mine’s cantankerous Captain, who performs a long speech encouraging all to indulge as this is to be the workers’ last night before returning to their families. With good reason for suspicion the protagonists feign gluttony and consume as little as humanly possible.” He continued: “Unfortunately, as they later find, even that’s not quite enough. Night falls, they hide and as the workers fall comatose, the wardens, overseen by the Captain, make preparations to pump their poisoned stomachs. It turns out the purpose of the mine is to procure an excess of human stomach acid used in the production of a b*****dised blood red wine, sold and loved in the region. “After the wider conspiracy is revealed and upon realising their friends must be long gone, the partners decide they must destroy the facility. A spanner plugs the works however, as one of the men experiences mild effects of the poison and the production of acid in his stomach goes into overdrive. As his chest literally bubbles he says what may be his final goodbyes to his partner and the other man is left to do the heavy lifting alone. “He succeeds and as they flee, arm in arm, the demon Captain erupts from the burning embers and curses the two men to the hell of crippling acid reflux for the rest of their days. They see no reason to worry though, as they’re sure to return home hailed as heroes.” ------------- Oh, for the wings of any bird, other than a battery hen |
Posted By: chopper
Date Posted: September 14 2022 at 11:14
| I take it back, that would make an even better film. Now I'm off to read the rest of the lyrics to see what wonders await. |
Posted By: edefakiel
Date Posted: September 20 2022 at 23:49
I prefer to avoid this kind of purposeless baiting these days. I don't see the point in making people "seethe" anymore. Whether you like black midi and The Callous Daoboys, one of them or none of them is not really my business. I enjoy both. I won't join any side. I just thought people here would appreciate this new album, maybe I was wrong.
None taken. I thought that this band was influenced by black midi, but I may be wrong. Of course, they are heavier, as I stated in my original message: "It is way heavier than Hellfire, but I think that both bands have many things in common". It is hard for me to listen to the second part of this song, for example, and not thinking that there is a strong influence of black midi: https://thecallousdaoboys.bandcamp.com/track/field-sobriety-practice-2" rel="nofollow - https://thecallousdaoboys.bandcamp.com/track/field-sobriety-practice-2 Again, I can be completely wrong and the only real influence is The №Ⅻ Looks Like You. |
Posted By: Saperlipopette!
Date Posted: September 21 2022 at 00:07
I just reposted the comments for my own amusement, really. All
the comment sections at RYM that has any activety at all eventually get ugly.
I'm just on the outside looking in disbelief at the kids nowadays (or
maybe they are all adults). They treat bands as if we're discussing our favorite football
teams.
|
Posted By: siLLy puPPy
Date Posted: September 21 2022 at 05:29
|
Too much Vaudeville. It's basically a more avant version of Scraping Foetus Off The Wheel circa Nail which came out as far back as 1985. Personally i like the last album much better. -------------  https://rateyourmusic.com/~siLLy_puPPy |
Posted By: edefakiel
Date Posted: September 21 2022 at 08:59
Yes, I know. I'm sorry if my comment was understood as criticism towards you. English is not my first language and I sometimes lack clarity in my exposition.
I fully agree. Their last one was also more interesting for my tastes.
|
Posted By: Deadwing
Date Posted: September 21 2022 at 09:00
| Listening to the album for the first time here, kinda fun I guess? Not much the kind of music I enjoy though, but watching live would be great |
Posted By: Saperlipopette!
Date Posted: October 02 2022 at 03:47
|