Abortion
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Topic: Abortion
Posted By: Atavachron
Subject: Abortion
Date Posted: May 02 2022 at 20:31
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Maybe the most significant political issue in the U.S. for the past forty years, it's possible the Supreme Court may return the rights around controlling abortion to the individual States and prevent the Federal government from protecting women nationally, according to a leaked document. As appalling as this is, will this give the Democrats a much-needed boost this year and in 2024 ? Or will this provide political capital for Republicans ? Most importantly, how do you feel about an adult woman's right to decide what to do with her body ? ------------- "Too often we enjoy the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought." -- John F. Kennedy |
Replies:
Posted By: Man With Hat
Date Posted: May 02 2022 at 20:50
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It's too late. Dems blew it by not wanting to vote for Hillary. The court is lost for at least one generation and whatever the dems want to do will be swallowed by that conservative force. ------------- Dig me...But don't...Bury me I'm running still, I shall until, one day, I hope that I'll arrive Warning: Listening to jazz excessively can cause a laxative effect. |
Posted By: nick_h_nz
Date Posted: May 03 2022 at 00:40
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The biggest problem I see is that people assume pro-life and pro-choice need to be mutually exclusive. It is entirely possible to be pro-life when it comes to one’s one body, but recognise that other people get to make their own choice when it comes to their’s. Every woman should be able to choose for herself whether or not an abortion is right for her. What’s worse, is that it is generally not even woman who make the decisions about whether a woman can make that decision. This shouldn’t even be a discussion in this day and age. Why is the idea that a woman can choose what to do with her own body even up for debate? ------------- https://tinyurl.com/nickhnz-tpa" rel="nofollow - Reviewer for The Progressive Aspect |
Posted By: ExittheLemming
Date Posted: May 03 2022 at 02:10
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I don't want to undermine what is a sincere and thought provoking OP but I'll give this 3 pages before it gets locked. The best case scenario would be for me to be proven wrong and we have a civil, erudite and adult debate about a very polarizing topic. Secure the ornaments.... ------------- 
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Posted By: Sean Trane
Date Posted: May 03 2022 at 02:48
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I'll repeat what I wrote in the last thread about this topic and had Raffaella ROTFLHAO Long Live Abortion and Long Live Euthanasia.  It's your body/life and no-one can dictate what you do with it. ------------- let's just stay above the moral melee prefer the sink to the gutter keep our sand-castle virtues content to be a doer as well as a thinker, prefer lifting our pen rather than un-sheath our sword |
Posted By: mathman0806
Date Posted: May 03 2022 at 04:18
I disagree that it's the biggest problem. The problem is whether or not you believe that life begins at conception and that life must be protected by banning abortion. There are some differences when it comes to allowances for rape, incest, and health. But at the core is how one views life and conception.
Sure. But that recognition is being pro choice.
I agree with you. The debate is there due to the moral/religious belief that life begins at conception and must be protected. |
nick_h_nz wrote:Posted By: nick_h_nz
Date Posted: May 03 2022 at 04:40
We will have to agree to disagree then, as there are actually a surprising number (at least, it was surprising to me) pro lifers who recognise the choice of others. So while you might say that that recognition means they are pro choice, I know they would argue the hell out of that. Because these are people who do believe life begins at conception, and therefore that any abortion is a form of murder - but they also recognise that this is a belief that comes from their faith, and that not everyone shares that faith, and therefore those beliefs. As with most things, those who makes biggest noise on any issue tend to be the extremists. When it comes to any religion, there are more Christians/Muslims/Jews/whatever out there who don’t expect others to share their faith, than do. There are plenty of Christians who believe that life begins at conception, so would never think about abortion themselves, but still understand that women should have autonomy over their own body. So the core issue is not whether life begins at conception, but how much any one person wishes to force their views on that on others. There is a vocal minority that conflates pro-life with anti-abortion, but a far wider cross-section of society who are pro-life (and would label themselves such), but understand that every woman needs to come to their own decision when it comes to what to do about that life. To say that all pro-lifers are anti-choice is simply not true. I admit I once assumed that was the case, but I have learnt that my assumption was wrong. Not all vegans are as rabid and reactionary as the vocal minority. My ex-boss once told me he hated vegans because they are all so self-righteous. I had to point out to him that that is not at all the case, and that he probably had at least one friend that was vegan, and he either just didn’t know, or simply hadn’t noticed - because not all vegans were their hearts on their sleeves. He didn’t believe me at all, but the next time I saw him, he sheepishly admitted he had been talking about our argument with his friends, and one of them was, indeed, a vegan. I have several friends who are vegan, and none shout about it. You’d never know if you were speaking to them, or if you viewed their FB page. They don’t feel the need to advertise the fact. It is merely something they believe, and they are well aware a lot of people do not share their views, so don’t try to push them. The same can be said for many pro-lifers. I found out I had a pro-life friend (she is not a Christian, either - so we shouldn’t assume that all pro-life beliefs come from religion) only after my wife became pregnant after I was already booked in for a vasectomy, because we had decided we did not want any more children. Because we had already decided that, abortion was on the table - but ultimately neither I nor my wife were comfortable with that. (And even if I were, I still would have left the final decision to my wife, because it is her body. While I appreciated her asking my opinion, I did feel that my opinion wasn’t really valid.) You then get to the Pythonesque “Every Sperm is Sacred” dilemma. Because for some people, getting a vasectomy is just as life-denying as an abortion. In my opinion, that is a crazy attitude to have - but, let’s face it, that is what some people believe. Strangely, though, while anti-abortion legislation often seems to be put on the table, anti-vasectomy legislation is not. Could it be, again, that it is because it is mostly men who attempt to foist this sort of legislation. They are fine to make decisions about the bodies of the opposite sec, but not their own? I am being somewhat facetious, of course, but I’m sure you can see where I’m coming from. ------------- https://tinyurl.com/nickhnz-tpa" rel="nofollow - Reviewer for The Progressive Aspect |
Posted By: SteveG
Date Posted: May 03 2022 at 05:10
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I see America shifting back into a pre 1950s morality standard, and this is because Democrats vote for a personality and not for a party. It seems above some people that Supreme Court justices are chosen for life terms and can't be voted out like the 4 year term political hacks. I really have no sympathy for these democrats crying now. They've made their bed and now have to lie uncomfortably in it, for the next 50 years or so.
Edit: My own personal take is that abortion, especially in later stages, is disgusting and the flippant way others talk of it is equally disgusting. But it is a central platform of my political party, so I uneasily go along with it. ------------- This message was brought to you by a proud supporter of the Deep State. |
Posted By: Sean Trane
Date Posted: May 03 2022 at 05:16
as usual, you're wrong in your facts. The last supreme court judge (an extremist) named was purposely done by Drump just before the end of his mandate (precisely to do what is happening now, because the balance was tilted the other way in doing so), not by the Dems. The nomination decision from the previous administration cannot be revoked by the actual Prez or the Dems. ------------- let's just stay above the moral melee prefer the sink to the gutter keep our sand-castle virtues content to be a doer as well as a thinker, prefer lifting our pen rather than un-sheath our sword |
Posted By: SteveG
Date Posted: May 03 2022 at 05:19
------------- This message was brought to you by a proud supporter of the Deep State. |
Posted By: Sean Trane
Date Posted: May 03 2022 at 05:27
Your post clearly reads like it's the Dems who are responsible for this situation, when it is the Reps who are. You were allowed back in PA (via yours truly) from a ban on the promise you wouldn't participate in political threads, thing you immediately reneged. . ------------- let's just stay above the moral melee prefer the sink to the gutter keep our sand-castle virtues content to be a doer as well as a thinker, prefer lifting our pen rather than un-sheath our sword |
Posted By: omphaloskepsis
Date Posted: May 03 2022 at 05:45
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Should gin support for democrats heading into 2022 midterms. Biden will revisit student loan forgiveness in time for 2022 midterms. The abortion vote distracts from Russia/Ukraine...a war that Russia is winning. Time to change the channel on America's brain. I figure Roberts sits this one out. That said, if Roe/Wade is overturned...Abortion is NOT outlawed. The abortion issue becomes a state decision again.
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Posted By: Sean Trane
Date Posted: May 03 2022 at 06:05
I wouldn't bet on that... I'd actually say the Russians are losing the war0.... on psychological term, at least. In the next months, you'll see Ukraine with western arms gaining back some grounds, - which could send Putin to use extra weaponry that are extra-military (I'm even fearing virus or bacterial weapons). The Ukrainians know all the flaws of Russian arms (since they've been using them for decades) Notably they have killed nearly 600 Russian tanks by aiming at the bullets cage, and having them explode inside the tank. .
------------- let's just stay above the moral melee prefer the sink to the gutter keep our sand-castle virtues content to be a doer as well as a thinker, prefer lifting our pen rather than un-sheath our sword |
Posted By: moshkito
Date Posted: May 03 2022 at 06:50
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Hi, It's hard to think straight on these things. My biggest comments is how the media has fueled a fire in what would be a conservative/religious base to get something done, which kinda tells you who owns so much of that media anyway! A media that pushes its TV and Media mentality on folks so they won't study the issue and just vote this way or that way without questions! The harder part is that in America there is such a "laissez faire" attitude about politics in general, specially now that so many folks are so stoned that they don't care! It's all about their weed, and screw politics, and even my neighbor says ... nothing you can do anyway! I saw that coming way back in the 70's when I found the getting stoned in California was just a fad ... it meant ABSOLUTELY NOTHING! The only solution is to see it happen, and then the next election the women's movement takes hold full blast and it ends the fake republican/religious connection in this country. It's weird that in a country that create a thing about religion and government being separated, and yet ... here we are ... screw the constitution and we do whatever we feel like! It's not even about individual rights anymore ... it's all about telling folks ... WE OWN YOU!
------------- Music is not just for listening ... it is for LIVING ... you got to feel it to know what's it about! Not being told! www.pedrosena.com |
Posted By: omphaloskepsis
Date Posted: May 03 2022 at 06:53
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Posted By: Argo2112
Date Posted: May 03 2022 at 07:34
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One aspect of this that no one really talks about & is absolutely terrifying is the provision put in many of these new state laws that allow individuals to sue any one who may have " aided some one who received an abortion" What does that mean? Well no one really seems to know. Can you sue the Uber driver that took the woman to a clinic? How about the person who bought a woman a turkey sandwich after the procedure? I know these sound like extreme examples but the point is no one knows where it would start & where it would end. So now states that are allowing these law suites have just recruited thousands of vigilante Christian jihadists to target women having abortions & anyone who may have assisted them. Like I said , absolutely terrifying.
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Posted By: King of Loss
Date Posted: May 03 2022 at 07:45
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#keepabortionlegal Enough said.
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Posted By: BrufordFreak
Date Posted: May 03 2022 at 07:47
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The pendulum between egalitarian humanitariansim and depraved hedonism is swinging back toward the latter. How far will it go? ------------- Drew Fisher https://progisaliveandwell.blogspot.com/ |
Posted By: Stonemonkey
Date Posted: May 03 2022 at 08:22
| and abolish the death penalty |
Posted By: Sean Trane
Date Posted: May 03 2022 at 08:32
Interesting answers about Ukraine, but let's not hijack this thread. (let's discuss this in dedicated thread. Why now? the whole legal/justice process takes time and is theoretically independent of global news. It just follows its course no matter what the WH's agenda is going to be. As pointed to Steve, there is nothing Biden or the Dems can do to stop it... And the Reps couldn't either, should they ever they want to. They (Dems) can maybe delay it long enough until another judge comes to die and needs to be replaced. But even then, from what I understand, the nomination process will take some time and even if the death would happen at the end of this year, I'm not sure Biden & Dems will have time to nominate their own candidate in time of the current presidential or congress mandate.
Not sure how to read that.  Yup, I'm not even sure it's worth even trying to save this planet, given that new generations will simply not be better than us.... Unless we have 10G St Greta (Thundberg) refusing to take the plane to go on holidays or let their smartphone die out without being replaced. The young generations are so keen on new technologies that they've got no idea on how to order a Big Mac menu on anything else than a gigantic touch-screen. Yes, Mars could become a solution (if done right - that means kick out private firms from space), but there are already people who've bought property on the Red Planet and will claim ownership. It's a lost cause, if you ask me. . ------------- let's just stay above the moral melee prefer the sink to the gutter keep our sand-castle virtues content to be a doer as well as a thinker, prefer lifting our pen rather than un-sheath our sword |
Posted By: JD
Date Posted: May 03 2022 at 08:48
------------- Thank you for supporting independently produced music |
Posted By: Sean Trane
Date Posted: May 03 2022 at 08:59
Not the way I read it, because the analogy didn't stick: Mars was never occupied by an "intelligent" life and most likely was never a living planet, despite having some living organism. If we are to poison our planet, it will maybe end up more like Venus (not that Venus ever had an intelligent life either.
------------- let's just stay above the moral melee prefer the sink to the gutter keep our sand-castle virtues content to be a doer as well as a thinker, prefer lifting our pen rather than un-sheath our sword |
Posted By: Atavachron
Date Posted: May 03 2022 at 11:51
Don't worry Iain, whether it does or not doesn't really matter. It has to be discussed. Besides, if anyone badly trolls this thing I'll just start a fistfight and get the thing closed right away. ------------- "Too often we enjoy the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought." -- John F. Kennedy |
Posted By: nick_h_nz
Date Posted: May 03 2022 at 11:55
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^ Well we are on to the second page already, and apart from Ompha’s predictable attempts to derail (I would say troll, but I think she’s deluded enough to be sincere) the discussion, we still seem to be quite civil and respectful. Maybe there is hope for us, yet? ------------- https://tinyurl.com/nickhnz-tpa" rel="nofollow - Reviewer for The Progressive Aspect |
Posted By: MortSahlFan
Date Posted: May 03 2022 at 12:26
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I'm pro-choice. If someone down the road has an abortion, I won't even know about it. It doesn't affect me. There's enough people in the world, and plenty of unwanted children. I'm in favor of more (free) condoms, morning-after plll (RU482), etc.. But this is at the bottom of issues for me when it comes to politics. I also don't like that it's used as a litmus test. Someone could be wrong on every other issue, but again, it's a litmus test. Just like guns, which I've changed positions on, but that's for another thread. People were talking about the leak being done to get the public to react, thinking it would get the court to reverse a decision they've already made? I don't like the idea of mob rule. The law shouldn't be political, or influenced by mob rule. ------------- https://www.youtube.com/c/LoyalOpposition https://www.scribd.com/document/382737647/MortSahlFan-Song-List |
Posted By: Atavachron
Date Posted: May 03 2022 at 15:16
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"Gallup https://news.gallup.com/poll/1576/abortion.aspx" rel="nofollow - polls
show Americans support for abortion in all or most cases at 80% in May
2021, only sightly higher than in 1975 (76%), and the Pew Research
Center https://www.pewforum.org/fact-sheet/public-opinion-on-abortion/" rel="nofollow - finds
59% of adults believe abortion should be legal, compared to 60% in
1995—though there has been fluctuation, with support dropping to a low
of 47% in 2009.
The share of Americans in Gallup’s poll who say abortion is morally acceptable reached a https://news.gallup.com/poll/350756/record-high-think-abortion-morally-acceptable.aspx" rel="nofollow - record high of 47% in May, up from a low of 36% in 2009, and a Quinnipiac https://poll.qu.edu/poll-release?releaseid=3820" rel="nofollow - poll found support for abortion being legal in all or most cases reached a near-record high in September with 63% support." -- That's from Forbes, BTW, not exactly a liberal bastion. ------------- "Too often we enjoy the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought." -- John F. Kennedy |
Posted By: Gordy
Date Posted: May 03 2022 at 15:30
Completely reactionary and indefensible. A pox on both the Republicans and Democrats.
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Posted By: Mirakaze
Date Posted: May 03 2022 at 15:50
 ------------- https://mirasnelder.wordpress.com/" rel="nofollow - Freelance composer, accepting commissions | https://mirasnelder.bandcamp.com/album/altered-acuity" rel="nofollow - Bandcamp page |
Posted By: Atavachron
Date Posted: May 03 2022 at 16:00
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^ Some good points if a little too bombastic-- I do wonder if Planned Parenthood will ironically become common in Anti-Choice states if only to help parents deal with a child they have no way of supporting and had no intention of having. ------------- "Too often we enjoy the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought." -- John F. Kennedy |
Posted By: The Dark Elf
Date Posted: May 03 2022 at 20:00
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No truer words have I ever heard spoken than what I heard from an 88 year old woman today: "If men could get pregnant, there would be abortion clinics on every corner." ------------- ...a vigorous circular motion hitherto unknown to the people of this area, but destined to take the place of the mud shark in your mythology... |
Posted By: Atavachron
Date Posted: May 03 2022 at 20:42
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^ Then there's Amanda Duarte's statement. She meant well and I get what she's saying but it came out oh so very, very wrong : "I do wonder how these white-supremacist lawmakers would feel if their little white daughters were raped and impregnated by black men." ------------- "Too often we enjoy the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought." -- John F. Kennedy |
Posted By: rushfan4
Date Posted: May 03 2022 at 21:09
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I borrowed this from a Facebook post, as it sums up my feelings on the subject: I'm not pro-murdering babies. I'm pro-Becky who found out at her 20 week anatomy scan that the infant she had been so excited to bring into this world had developed without life sustaining organs. I'm pro-Susan who was sexually assaulted on her way home from work, only to come to the horrific realization that her assailant planted his seed in her when she got a positive pregnancy test result a month later. I'm pro-Theresa who hemorrhaged due to a placental abruption, causing her parents, spouse, and children to have to make the impossible decision on whether to save her or her unborn child. I'm pro-little Cathy who had her innocence ripped away from her by someone she should have been able to trust and her 11 year old body isn't mature enough to bear the consequence of that betrayal. I'm pro-Melissa who's working two jobs just to make ends meet and has to choose between bringing another child into poverty or feeding the children she already has because her spouse walked out on her. I'm pro-Brittany who realizes that she is in no way financially, emotionally, or physically able to raise a child. I'm pro-Emily who went through IVF, ending up with SIX viable implanted eggs requiring selective reduction in order to ensure the safety of her and a SAFE amount of fetuses. I'm pro-Christina who doesn't want to be a mother, but birth control methods sometimes fail. I'm pro-Jessica who is FINALLY getting the strength to get away from her physically abusive spouse only to find out that she is carrying the monster's child. I'm pro-Vanessa who went into her confirmation appointment after YEARS of trying to conceive only to hear silence where there should be a heartbeat. I'm pro-Lindsay who lost her virginity in her sophomore year with a broken condom and now has to choose whether to be a teenage mom or just a teenager. I'm pro-Courtney who just found out she's already 13 weeks along, but the egg never made it out of her fallopian tube so either she terminates the pregnancy or risks dying from internal bleeding. You can argue and say that I'm pro-choice all you want, but the truth is: I'm pro-life. Their lives. Women's lives. You don't get to pick and choose which scenarios should be accepted. Women's rights are meant to protect ALL women, regardless of their situation! https://www.facebook.com/hashtag/roevwade?__eep__=6&__cft__%5b0%5d=AZVEinrvjaSuIgATPQJqphxlIUZKYqJIU2ZtKUwfNzveUc8HMxCCX6ejZuWt9_7X5ERCT95ARImYmryCvSwgNzqOzPKjFQR5JbOb4FdLqSwLqWn-xBnk09j_jnSe56W6CiU&__tn__=*NK-R" rel="nofollow - #roevwade https://www.facebook.com/hashtag/prochoice?__eep__=6&__cft__%5b0%5d=AZVEinrvjaSuIgATPQJqphxlIUZKYqJIU2ZtKUwfNzveUc8HMxCCX6ejZuWt9_7X5ERCT95ARImYmryCvSwgNzqOzPKjFQR5JbOb4FdLqSwLqWn-xBnk09j_jnSe56W6CiU&__tn__=*NK-R" rel="nofollow - #prochoice https://www.facebook.com/hashtag/abortion?__eep__=6&__cft__%5b0%5d=AZVEinrvjaSuIgATPQJqphxlIUZKYqJIU2ZtKUwfNzveUc8HMxCCX6ejZuWt9_7X5ERCT95ARImYmryCvSwgNzqOzPKjFQR5JbOb4FdLqSwLqWn-xBnk09j_jnSe56W6CiU&__tn__=*NK-R" rel="nofollow - #abortion https://www.facebook.com/hashtag/women?__eep__=6&__cft__%5b0%5d=AZVEinrvjaSuIgATPQJqphxlIUZKYqJIU2ZtKUwfNzveUc8HMxCCX6ejZuWt9_7X5ERCT95ARImYmryCvSwgNzqOzPKjFQR5JbOb4FdLqSwLqWn-xBnk09j_jnSe56W6CiU&__tn__=*NK-R" rel="nofollow - #women https://www.facebook.com/hashtag/womensrights?__eep__=6&__cft__%5b0%5d=AZVEinrvjaSuIgATPQJqphxlIUZKYqJIU2ZtKUwfNzveUc8HMxCCX6ejZuWt9_7X5ERCT95ARImYmryCvSwgNzqOzPKjFQR5JbOb4FdLqSwLqWn-xBnk09j_jnSe56W6CiU&__tn__=*NK-R" rel="nofollow - #womensrights https://www.facebook.com/hashtag/mybody?__eep__=6&__cft__%5b0%5d=AZVEinrvjaSuIgATPQJqphxlIUZKYqJIU2ZtKUwfNzveUc8HMxCCX6ejZuWt9_7X5ERCT95ARImYmryCvSwgNzqOzPKjFQR5JbOb4FdLqSwLqWn-xBnk09j_jnSe56W6CiU&__tn__=*NK-R" rel="nofollow - #mybody https://www.facebook.com/hashtag/mychoice?__eep__=6&__cft__%5b0%5d=AZVEinrvjaSuIgATPQJqphxlIUZKYqJIU2ZtKUwfNzveUc8HMxCCX6ejZuWt9_7X5ERCT95ARImYmryCvSwgNzqOzPKjFQR5JbOb4FdLqSwLqWn-xBnk09j_jnSe56W6CiU&__tn__=*NK-R" rel="nofollow - #mychoice https://www.facebook.com/hashtag/mybodymychoice?__eep__=6&__cft__%5b0%5d=AZVEinrvjaSuIgATPQJqphxlIUZKYqJIU2ZtKUwfNzveUc8HMxCCX6ejZuWt9_7X5ERCT95ARImYmryCvSwgNzqOzPKjFQR5JbOb4FdLqSwLqWn-xBnk09j_jnSe56W6CiU&__tn__=*NK-R" rel="nofollow - #mybodymychoice *Copied and pasted, please do the same* ------------- 
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Posted By: AFlowerKingCrimson
Date Posted: May 03 2022 at 21:15
| I'm ok with people being anti-abortion and pro-life as long as they pay these women to have unwanted children or agree to raise them themselves. The thing is none of these pro-lifers would be prepared or want to raise these children. Are they going to cheer these women on in the delivery room when they do give birth? To be honest, I really don't see why people care what women do or don't do with their bodies. |
Posted By: Atavachron
Date Posted: May 03 2022 at 21:47
Important text. It won't sway the Psychotic Right, but it could influence someone undecided. ------------- "Too often we enjoy the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought." -- John F. Kennedy |
Posted By: Sean Trane
Date Posted: May 04 2022 at 02:35
Even worse, I'm pro-Lizzie who found herself pregnant against her will and decide to undergo an abortion and have the nay-sayers saying she's using abortion as if it was a normal birth-control method. What most pro-life arseholes don't realize is how mind-damaging it is to have someone going up your entrails and perform a still-dangerous act. Even done by specialists, an abortion remains a dangerous act with sometimes dramatic health hazards, let alone psychological consequences. If my mother hadn't had had abortion in the late-50"s early-60's on three occasions (remember the pill didn't exist and most males wouldn't wear a condom and promised to "withdraw before ejaculation" and then "forgot to") performed by her female gynecologists, she'd probably have never met my dad ands I wouldn't be here. Let alone to think in what psychological and physical state state that dear woman (who raised three great kids) would be in today. . /
------------- let's just stay above the moral melee prefer the sink to the gutter keep our sand-castle virtues content to be a doer as well as a thinker, prefer lifting our pen rather than un-sheath our sword |
Posted By: SteveG
Date Posted: May 04 2022 at 04:11
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It's amazing to me that abortion is still a thing in the 21st century. Birth control, which is not on the chopping block, should have made abortions a thing of the past. I'm not saying this for victims of rape or in cases of abortions for medically necessary means, but somehow we've dropped the ball on women getting pregnant when they don't want to. In most instances, there is no excuse for it. Planned Parenthood and other social programs supply the pill or other means at virtually no cost. Wtf? ------------- This message was brought to you by a proud supporter of the Deep State. |
Posted By: siLLy puPPy
Date Posted: May 04 2022 at 07:15
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^ women can still get pregnant on the pill. There is no birth control that is 100% effective. -------------  https://rateyourmusic.com/~siLLy_puPPy |
Posted By: SteveG
Date Posted: May 04 2022 at 07:22
------------- This message was brought to you by a proud supporter of the Deep State. |
Posted By: siLLy puPPy
Date Posted: May 04 2022 at 08:56
You said birth control should've made abortion a thing of the past so if it's obvious you wouldn't have made that comment. Whatever the case i don't really get involved in this topic often because it's basically the blind leading the blind. Firstly, in the modern world self-induced morning after contraception is easily obtained through natural herbal remedies. Secondly, there is a difference between the US Republic and the US corporation. Only corporate franchises aka citizens are subject to the corporate policies. True most are still woefully unaware of these escape mechanisms but in the last few years the # of US nationals who have redesignated their status has risen from a mere 50 thousand to over 5 million. In other words if you are not a corporate franchise of the parent corporation then absolutely ZERO of their policies apply. Yeah it's more complicated when ignorance is the norm but in terms of legal jurisdiction it is true. This means abortion is a privacy right. Privacy does not exist when one is subject to the rules and regulations of a corporation through contractual consent. Once these contracts are rescinded there is no jurisdiction of the three tiers of law that apply therefore abortion is a private matter outside of the jurisdiction of the UCC (Uniform Commercial Code) which is the basis for Maritime Admiralty Law which is what all nation states are based upon. ------------- https://rateyourmusic.com/~siLLy_puPPy |
Posted By: Sean Trane
Date Posted: May 04 2022 at 09:25
Puppy, never mind what Steve says (one thing and its exact opposite in the next post)  This thread is mostly males discussing an issue that should concern women only (or mostly). It's amazing to see that an  unknowing male  would imagine women prefer using abortion to other methods. This is outrageous and preposterous: like not knowing women at all and the trauma of having surgical tools toying inside their uterus.Sure, the pill - once presented as the miracle solution - has been decried in the last 15 years because of increased health risk (including strokes) was (and still is) the most efficient solution. So have vaccines of all sorts (this is why we're seeing some illnesses reappearing four/five decades after we thought they'd been eradicated.. That came with the birth of social networks crap. I bet you that 80 or 90% of the women looking to abort are upper-class students/professional in order of not interrupting (or ending) their career, rather than lower class. Steve's stance is pro-conservative and sides with Drump and Pootang.    ------------- let's just stay above the moral melee prefer the sink to the gutter keep our sand-castle virtues content to be a doer as well as a thinker, prefer lifting our pen rather than un-sheath our sword |
Posted By: SteveG
Date Posted: May 04 2022 at 10:43
But you wouldn't understand that, would you?------------- This message was brought to you by a proud supporter of the Deep State. |
Posted By: CosmicVibration
Date Posted: May 04 2022 at 18:03
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Freedom! Your body
your choice. That should include any
substance, chemical or natural, that you want to ingest; or not. Your
body your choice. You want to
implant hardware or technology, your body your choice. However, you should never be coerced. Being coerced into injecting an unproven new technology
into your body should be a criminal offense!
Even if it was proven safe and effective, coercion is not freedom of
choice. |
Posted By: Atavachron
Date Posted: May 04 2022 at 18:36
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^ Fair point-- we love pushing new vaccines on everyone for public health, but don't dare tell half the population they have to give birth. ------------- "Too often we enjoy the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought." -- John F. Kennedy |
Posted By: siLLy puPPy
Date Posted: May 04 2022 at 19:11
Of course but choice is only freedom of choice if everything is disclosed. That is not the case in pretty much EVERYTHING in the modern world. Choice is only relevant if those who making the choice are fully informed and in the case of the modern wold many are TRICKED into contractual agreements through changing of terminology. ------------- https://rateyourmusic.com/~siLLy_puPPy |
Posted By: moshkito
Date Posted: May 05 2022 at 00:02
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Hi, I'm just watching the assault on the CONSTITUTION and the folks that couldn't careless what it stood for! And that includes a bunch of folks that think of themselves as judges and are no less enamored with their class than any dishwasher in a restaurant. It is sickening to say the least. The display of honor and appreciation for history and it all ... is a long gone proposition ... something lost in time, that will destroy a country that meant well, but lost its footing along the way! ------------- Music is not just for listening ... it is for LIVING ... you got to feel it to know what's it about! Not being told! www.pedrosena.com |
Posted By: SteveG
Date Posted: May 05 2022 at 04:26
Used in tandem, these measures have a combined effective rate of 99%. And in medicine, you can't get better than that. Are two or more contraceptive measures a pain to implement? Sure, but it beats gets an abortion. As far as totally eliminating abortions, that can never happen, as I stressed cases of rape or medically necessary abortions would still be needed. So how can I have said they would be totally eliminated? But if they were rare, we wouldn't be having this discussion. ------------- This message was brought to you by a proud supporter of the Deep State. |
Posted By: Blacksword
Date Posted: May 05 2022 at 05:13
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I'm surprised this has lasted three pages without being blocked. Anyway, I support a woman's right to choose. The opposite position doesn't make sense to me. The argument that all life is sacred, even from conception, doesn't stack up, from a religious perspective, when you consider how much life is slain in the name of God. ------------- Ultimately bored by endless ecstasy! |
Posted By: nick_h_nz
Date Posted: May 05 2022 at 05:35
 ------------- https://tinyurl.com/nickhnz-tpa" rel="nofollow - Reviewer for The Progressive Aspect |
Posted By: SteveG
Date Posted: May 05 2022 at 05:55
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^ There's much to be said about that statement. I've always felt that conservatives have more regard for unborn fetuses than they they do for the sick and the poor. I hope I'm mistaken, but I doubt it..
------------- This message was brought to you by a proud supporter of the Deep State. |
Posted By: Grumpyprogfan
Date Posted: May 05 2022 at 06:20
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How can you take away a woman's right to do what she wants with her body, yet any psycho can legally buy an assault rifle to murder innocent people? It makes me embarrassed and ashamed to be an American. The only thing positive thing happening in U.S.A., is the June 24th release of Turf Ascension by Bubblemath.
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Posted By: SteveG
Date Posted: May 05 2022 at 07:30
 Good news on the Bubblemath release. If you say it's good, I'll definitely check it out.------------- This message was brought to you by a proud supporter of the Deep State. |
Posted By: Blacksword
Date Posted: May 05 2022 at 07:47
They do think that about the poor. I don't think you're mistaken on that. They tend to think poverty is a choice, and people just need to 'pull themselves up by the boot straps' In a recent FB debate about the cost of living crisis in the UK, one conservative piped up that people should stop moaning about the salaries of CEO's. The solution being to simply 'become a CEO' yourself. ------------- Ultimately bored by endless ecstasy! |
Posted By: SteveG
Date Posted: May 05 2022 at 07:55
------------- This message was brought to you by a proud supporter of the Deep State. |
Posted By: Davesax1965
Date Posted: May 05 2022 at 08:46
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A great quote from a past Tory MP (George Young) was "The homeless ? Aren't they are those people I step over on the way out of the opera ?".
Not that those with money and power are totally dissociated from those that do not. Everywhere. The late Prince Philip, AKA Phil the Greek said, in all seriousness, that carriage driving - driving a carriage and two to four horses around a course "was a suitable sport for the unemployed". Expecting of this strata of people to understand the common man or woman in the street is a very big ask indeed. ------------- |
Posted By: SteveG
Date Posted: May 05 2022 at 10:00
------------- This message was brought to you by a proud supporter of the Deep State. |
Posted By: Atavachron
Date Posted: May 05 2022 at 18:20
I said I'd start a fistfight if things got bad and I meant it. I still will, with pleasure. ------------- "Too often we enjoy the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought." -- John F. Kennedy |
Posted By: darksinger
Date Posted: May 05 2022 at 21:39
Nobody is taking away the precious "right" to kill unborn children. It is not even being "snatched" from people-the leak was one opinion from one justice and was leaked because the Democrats need a stalwart position to offset the fact this current administration is a mess. As far as my opinion on a "right for a woman to decide what to do with her body", my grandmother almost aborted my dad. I love my grandmother dearly. She was a great mom to my dad despite this and she was a wonderful, giving person. They had abortion back then. It was a poisonous pill of some sort. But had she gone through with it, she would have made a decision for so far five other people's bodies. So, I do not view abortion as "my body, my choice". I view it as "other people's bodies, my choice", because five of us did not have a say in the matter. With that said, I am not entirely against abortion because I do not feel a rape victim should be forced to carry her attacker's child or if a child is going to be born with defects that will only cause the child to live briefly and in pain, the parents should have a right to not let the child suffer. I do not hate women who get abortions because I feel they felt that was their only viable option and they had a hard decision to make. What I do hate is the marketing of abortion as if it is a soft drink with "cute" slogans such as "shout your abortion" and pretty spokespeople presenting some deluded nonsense-abortion is a serious decision! Often the women who get one are affected psychologically by it. It is not a style or an image. I also hate the politicizing of this leak over it-a person chose to violate the policies and procedures of the SCOTUS to leak a single draft of a single opinion from a single justice as a way to intimidate the SCOTUS to not do its duty of interpreting the Constitution.
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Posted By: ExittheLemming
Date Posted: May 06 2022 at 18:42
Can't help but be reminded of that quote of unknown origin: 'the beatings will continue until morale improves' -------------
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Posted By: Atavachron
Date Posted: May 06 2022 at 20:00
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^ I think I have that on a t-shirt - ------------- "Too often we enjoy the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought." -- John F. Kennedy |
Posted By: The Dark Elf
Date Posted: May 06 2022 at 22:02
Wrong. It is not "one opinion from one justice".... Writing for the five-justice majority, Justice Samuel Alito offers two reasons for this conclusion: The Constitution does not explicitly protect the right to abortion, and the right to obtain an abortion is neither “deeply rooted in [our] history and tradition” nor “essential to our Nation’s ‘scheme of ordered liberty.’” http://thehill.com/opinion/judiciary/3479023-sophistry-at-the-supreme-court/" rel="nofollow - http://thehill.com/opinion/judiciary/3479023-sophistry-at-the-supreme-court/ Welcome to the land of disinformation. You have been owned by Fox News. Alito's warped reasoning makes my skin crawl. What other "Rights" that we took for granted as being protected under the Constitution will no longer apply because Alito is an 18th century renaissance man? A women's right to vote? Hey, that's a 20th century innovation. Are we going to bring back slavery because Jefferson was knocking up the servants? And to top it off, three of the Justices who are part of that opinion -- Trump's chumps -- lied under oath about Roe v. Wade during their confirmation hearings.
------------- ...a vigorous circular motion hitherto unknown to the people of this area, but destined to take the place of the mud shark in your mythology... |
Posted By: Atavachron
Date Posted: May 06 2022 at 22:55
the Democrats need a stalwart position to offset the fact that Republicans are psychotic ... and they got a very good one. ------------- "Too often we enjoy the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought." -- John F. Kennedy |
Posted By: ExittheLemming
Date Posted: May 07 2022 at 01:19
We're on page four without even a single Admin intervention. I'm not a Tibetan man but didn't wager we would reach this far. This thread's longevity is itself a fantastic argument for Pro Life. -------------
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Posted By: Sean Trane
Date Posted: May 07 2022 at 02:09
here is the composition of the US Supreme court and who nominated them: Italics : women Pro-Choice bold underlined anti-pro-choice Blue Dems Red Reps C Thomas (73yo) - Bush Sr - rabid anti - will most likely not retire until a Rep prez in place again Bryer (couldn't find his age) - Clinton (planning to retire in June - Biden expected to nominate Brown-Jackson) Roberts (67yo) - Dubya (pivot member - could go either way - was pro-Obamacare) Alito (72) - Dubya (says it's not the role of US SC to judge this matter - enforce it, but not make it evolve) Sotomayor (67yo) - Obama Kagan (62yo) - Obama Barrett (50yo) - Trump (ultra-catholic woman) Gorsuch (54yo) - Trump's (pro-discrimination) Kavanaugh (57yo) (accused of sex assault in the 80's - charges dropped) - Trump Oddly enough, it's the two Dubya nominations that could tip it towards Choice Steve: about the most-likely women to suffer from this ban, it's obvious that poor women will not be able to take "holidays" abroad to have it performed. To avoid getting spotted in clinics (and getting "publicity" from antis), more financially-affluent women take "holidays" abroad. See Sarah Waddington's indignation in front of Congress of a few days ago. . ------------- let's just stay above the moral melee prefer the sink to the gutter keep our sand-castle virtues content to be a doer as well as a thinker, prefer lifting our pen rather than un-sheath our sword |
Posted By: Hewitt
Date Posted: May 07 2022 at 19:38
| In the real world there is no choice between abortion and no abortion. The only choice we can make is between safe legal abortion or unsafe illegal abortion. It’s a no-brainer. |
Posted By: Atavachron
Date Posted: May 07 2022 at 19:41
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^ I suspect that's all too true. We all do what we have to. ------------- "Too often we enjoy the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought." -- John F. Kennedy |
Posted By: darksinger
Date Posted: May 07 2022 at 23:13
The Founders felt abortion was a tool of tyranny. I am of the same mindset. -------------
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Posted By: Mirakaze
Date Posted: May 08 2022 at 03:06
I wonder if they felt that owning slaves was tyrannical. ------------- https://mirasnelder.wordpress.com/" rel="nofollow - Freelance composer, accepting commissions | https://mirasnelder.bandcamp.com/album/altered-acuity" rel="nofollow - Bandcamp page |
Posted By: Sean Trane
Date Posted: May 08 2022 at 03:35
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I must I'm always amazed that Jen (who is such a "rebel") would choose to back options that would limit her own freedom (or at least other's freedom, if she doesn't want to exert that freedom)  
Yup, it seems that the founders were not exactly "nice" or thoughtful, but they were certainly self-righteous  . The people coming off the Mayflower were religious extremists - albeit fleeing other extremists.AFAIAC, the first modern "tyrany" would be stopping someone from disposing of himself/herself. ------------- let's just stay above the moral melee prefer the sink to the gutter keep our sand-castle virtues content to be a doer as well as a thinker, prefer lifting our pen rather than un-sheath our sword |
Posted By: Grumpyprogfan
Date Posted: May 08 2022 at 06:26
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Posted By: The Dark Elf
Date Posted: May 08 2022 at 08:29
Please stop. The Constitution as a document is pliable and not set in stone; hence, the many necessary amendments added afterwards -- because for all its greatness and its potential, it is also a tragically flawed document. The fact that it can be altered as time goes on is one of the brilliant facets of the document. Because the Founders, for whatever their adherence to French Enlightenment ideals, were typical white, wealthy 18th century men. Evidently, they didn't consider it tyrannical to limit the rights of the Constitution to white males and thus eliminating women from the right to vote, and considering black slaves to be subhuman (enshrined in the 3/5ths of a person clause). Let's also not forget the Founders thought nothing of Native American genocide and the theft of their land. So spare me the 250 year old view of what constitutes "tyranny". There is any number of racist, misogynistic, religious and imperialist views that the Founders had that modern society would find appalling. Unless, of course, you identify as an 18th century person. Love the powdered wig.
------------- ...a vigorous circular motion hitherto unknown to the people of this area, but destined to take the place of the mud shark in your mythology... |
Posted By: Atavachron
Date Posted: May 08 2022 at 15:45
Funny how it's now the other way 'round. ------------- "Too often we enjoy the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought." -- John F. Kennedy |
Posted By: SteveG
Date Posted: May 08 2022 at 16:48
------------- This message was brought to you by a proud supporter of the Deep State. |
Posted By: rogerthat
Date Posted: May 08 2022 at 20:41
Yeah, albeit Ginsburg must share the blame for not retiring when Obama asked her to (and Obama tapped two male judges to retire and replaced them with female judges and yet 'the lady' didn't trust him or something). But really, if people who are pro-choice also had the same awareness of the President and Senate's role in appointing SC judges, this wouldn't have happened. If the right to abortion is that important, why wouldn't you vote straight Democrat in every general election as well as every mid term? Play stupid games, win stupid prizes.
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Posted By: darksinger
Date Posted: May 08 2022 at 20:44
actually, quite a few of them did. -------------
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Posted By: darksinger
Date Posted: May 08 2022 at 20:50
>>I must I'm always amazed that Jen (who is such a "rebel") would choose to back options that would limit her own freedom (or at least other's freedom, if she doesn't want to exert that freedom)  <<translation: "Jen does not think in accordance of what she should as per our federal masters and is therefore less than a woman. We also will call her insane because she dares to be a woman who expresses freedom of thought instead of marching lockstep with the rest of us" -------------
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