Thousand records of the twentieth century
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Topic: Thousand records of the twentieth century
Posted By: jamesbaldwin
Subject: Thousand records of the twentieth century
Date Posted: March 31 2022 at 14:47
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The musicologist and jazz guitarist Enrico Merlin has compiled a book containing 1000 records of twentieth century music. Music without barriers: from Mahler to Opeth. Not only western music. In his book, the criterion he followed to make his selection is exposed: As Merlin specifies, the criterion is NOT to select the "Best Albums", it is NOT to select "The Most Beautiful albums". The criterion is: "the historical importance of each work, especially taking into account the intrinsic innovative content from the perspective of a music historian who is also a musician." The assumption is that music always evolves, and that the evolution of music depends on the evolution of three of its characteristics: - melody - harmony - rhythm but, starting from the twentieth century, with recording techniques, with electric and electronic instruments, it is necessary to take into account three other parameters that DO NOT appear in the musical score: - musical timbre - dynamics - expressiveness. According to these criteria, Merlin has given ample space to musicians who during their career have developed very different creative solutions, while other musicians who have remained very faithful to one of their lines (a sound, for example, a genre, etc.) have been less represented.  ------------- Amos Goldberg (professor of Genocide Studies at the Hebrew University in Jerusalem): Yes, it's genocide. It's so difficult and painful to admit it, but we can no longer avoid this conclusion. |
Replies:
Posted By: jamesbaldwin
Date Posted: March 31 2022 at 14:55
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If you want, let's play a game: In your opinion, which prog records from the seventies did Merlin select? Try to give me a list of 20 albums. ------------- Amos Goldberg (professor of Genocide Studies at the Hebrew University in Jerusalem): Yes, it's genocide. It's so difficult and painful to admit it, but we can no longer avoid this conclusion. |
Posted By: Grumpyprogfan
Date Posted: March 31 2022 at 15:29
 KC - In the Court Jethro Tull - TAAB (one of the first concept albums) U.K. - U.K. Gentle Giant - Acquiring the Taste Genesis - Selling England... Pink Floyd - Dark Side... ELP - Tarkus Return to Forever Kansas - s/t Pat Metheny Group - s/t Soft Machine - Volume Two Miles Davis - In a Silent Way Something from Magma Hatfield and the North - s/t Yes - The Yes Album Probably some RPI Zappa - The Grand Wazoo Nektar - A Tab in the Ocean Gong - Camembert Electrique So, did I get any correct?  |
jamesbaldwin wrote:Posted By: jamesbaldwin
Date Posted: March 31 2022 at 16:11
Seven! ------------- Amos Goldberg (professor of Genocide Studies at the Hebrew University in Jerusalem): Yes, it's genocide. It's so difficult and painful to admit it, but we can no longer avoid this conclusion. |
Posted By: I prophesy disaster
Date Posted: April 01 2022 at 03:11
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I'm only going to pick one album: VdGG - Pawn Hearts ------------- No, I know how to behave in the restaurant now, I don't tear at the meat with my hands. If I've become a man of the world somehow, that's not necessarily to say I'm a worldly man. |
Posted By: jamesbaldwin
Date Posted: April 01 2022 at 04:44
No  ------------- Amos Goldberg (professor of Genocide Studies at the Hebrew University in Jerusalem): Yes, it's genocide. It's so difficult and painful to admit it, but we can no longer avoid this conclusion. |
Posted By: Cristi
Date Posted: April 01 2022 at 04:51
is there any VDGG in the book?
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Posted By: Cactus Choir
Date Posted: April 01 2022 at 05:23
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Well it's good to see the much-maligned ELP being featured in a music list for their historical importance! My wild guesses: Miles Davies - Bitches Brew Kansas - Leftoverture Rush - Moving Pictures King Crimson - Red Genesis - Lamb Lies Down on Broadway Assuming there must be some RPI but I wouldn't know which. ------------- "And now...on the drums...Mick Underwooooooooood!!!" "He's up the pub" |
Posted By: jamesbaldwin
Date Posted: April 01 2022 at 05:32
Yes, just one album. ------------- Amos Goldberg (professor of Genocide Studies at the Hebrew University in Jerusalem): Yes, it's genocide. It's so difficult and painful to admit it, but we can no longer avoid this conclusion. |
Posted By: Cristi
Date Posted: April 01 2022 at 05:33
H to He?
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Posted By: jamesbaldwin
Date Posted: April 01 2022 at 05:35
One! And there is another album by EL&P. Which one?
------------- Amos Goldberg (professor of Genocide Studies at the Hebrew University in Jerusalem): Yes, it's genocide. It's so difficult and painful to admit it, but we can no longer avoid this conclusion. |
Posted By: jamesbaldwin
Date Posted: April 01 2022 at 05:36
No. ------------- Amos Goldberg (professor of Genocide Studies at the Hebrew University in Jerusalem): Yes, it's genocide. It's so difficult and painful to admit it, but we can no longer avoid this conclusion. |
Posted By: Cristi
Date Posted: April 01 2022 at 05:36
debut or Pictures?
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Posted By: I prophesy disaster
Date Posted: April 01 2022 at 05:39
Godbluff? ------------- No, I know how to behave in the restaurant now, I don't tear at the meat with my hands. If I've become a man of the world somehow, that's not necessarily to say I'm a worldly man. |
Posted By: Cactus Choir
Date Posted: April 01 2022 at 05:41
Brain Salad Surgery? ------------- "And now...on the drums...Mick Underwooooooooood!!!" "He's up the pub" |
Posted By: I prophesy disaster
Date Posted: April 01 2022 at 05:41
I'm guessing Brain Salad Surgery? ------------- No, I know how to behave in the restaurant now, I don't tear at the meat with my hands. If I've become a man of the world somehow, that's not necessarily to say I'm a worldly man. |
Posted By: jamesbaldwin
Date Posted: April 01 2022 at 05:45
No, The Least We Can Do Is Wave To Each Other. Since the main criterion of choice is the innovation of musical contents, Godbluff does not lend itself to being selected: it doesn't add much to the previous compositions. "The Least" inaugurates the music of the following discs, so I understand the choice. I am unhappy that Pawn Hearts is missing, which however brings several changes compared to The Least. ------------- Amos Goldberg (professor of Genocide Studies at the Hebrew University in Jerusalem): Yes, it's genocide. It's so difficult and painful to admit it, but we can no longer avoid this conclusion. |
Posted By: jamesbaldwin
Date Posted: April 01 2022 at 05:47
One! ------------- Amos Goldberg (professor of Genocide Studies at the Hebrew University in Jerusalem): Yes, it's genocide. It's so difficult and painful to admit it, but we can no longer avoid this conclusion. |
Posted By: Cristi
Date Posted: April 01 2022 at 05:57
ok. I bet if I made a list of albums I think are relevant or important, it would be different from what this author finds relevant.
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Posted By: Grumpyprogfan
Date Posted: April 01 2022 at 06:43
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Jethro Tull - Aqualung Robert Wyatt - Rock Bottom Caravan - In the Land of Grey and Pink Hatfield and the North - The Rotters Club |
Posted By: I prophesy disaster
Date Posted: April 01 2022 at 07:01
Yes, I would've been quite surprised if Godbluff was considered more innovative than Pawn Hearts. I see Godbluff as a substantial regression from their previous album.
To me, Pawn Hearts is the culmination of the three albums starting from The Least. The Least is the album where they found their sound, but in a rather crude form. H to He is the album where they perfected their sound, but it lacked the unity that they finally achieved with Pawn Hearts. ------------- No, I know how to behave in the restaurant now, I don't tear at the meat with my hands. If I've become a man of the world somehow, that's not necessarily to say I'm a worldly man. |
Posted By: moshkito
Date Posted: April 01 2022 at 07:27
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Hi, Hard to tell, since tastes are so different in America as they are in Europe. For example, "progressive" folks from Europe do not consider CHICAGO an important band, and in terms of "progressive, CHICAGO 2 and even 1 deserve a mention, but they are not English and therefore ignored. A couple of these are already mentioned, so I removed Bitches Brew. KC - In the Court Jethro Tull - TAAB (one of the first concept albums) Gentle Giant - Acquiring the Taste Pink Floyd - Dark Side... ELP - Tarkus Return to Forever Soft Machine - Volume Three Yes - Close to the Edge Gong - You Chicago - 2 The Doors Iron Butterfly - In a Gadda Da Vida Can - Tago Mago Amon Duul 2 - Yeti Focus - Moving Waves or III Banco - Darwin Faust - So Far Agitation Free - 1st probably Tangerine Dream - Phaedra Aphrodite's Child - 666 ------------- Music is not just for listening ... it is for LIVING ... you got to feel it to know what's it about! Not being told! www.pedrosena.com |
Posted By: JD
Date Posted: April 01 2022 at 08:42
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I'd like to think Peter Gabriel 4 (Security) got a nod. Oh, and Queen - Night at the Opera.
------------- Thank you for supporting independently produced music |
Posted By: jamesbaldwin
Date Posted: April 01 2022 at 09:46
Five! ------------- Amos Goldberg (professor of Genocide Studies at the Hebrew University in Jerusalem): Yes, it's genocide. It's so difficult and painful to admit it, but we can no longer avoid this conclusion. |
Posted By: jamesbaldwin
Date Posted: April 01 2022 at 09:50
One! Peter Gabriel is one of those artists that Merlin quites in the introduction as deserving of particular attention because his musical career has had many turning points, has been characterized by an innovative research, and in fact he is present with 3 records, but not with the fourth. ------------- Amos Goldberg (professor of Genocide Studies at the Hebrew University in Jerusalem): Yes, it's genocide. It's so difficult and painful to admit it, but we can no longer avoid this conclusion. |
Posted By: jamesbaldwin
Date Posted: April 01 2022 at 10:25
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There are some artists, not strictly prog, but present on Progarchives, who have many records on Merlin's list... Which ones are they? An advice: remember: he's a jazz guitarist.
------------- Amos Goldberg (professor of Genocide Studies at the Hebrew University in Jerusalem): Yes, it's genocide. It's so difficult and painful to admit it, but we can no longer avoid this conclusion. |
Posted By: I prophesy disaster
Date Posted: April 01 2022 at 11:08
John McLaughlin? ------------- No, I know how to behave in the restaurant now, I don't tear at the meat with my hands. If I've become a man of the world somehow, that's not necessarily to say I'm a worldly man. |
Posted By: moshkito
Date Posted: April 01 2022 at 21:03
Hi, Alan Stivell -- Renaissance of the Celtic Harp Tomita - Snowflakes are Dancing Walter Carlos - Switched on Bach Paul Horn - Inside the Pyramid (the first "inside" album) Tibetan Bells - The first Ange - Au Dela Du Delire ------------- Music is not just for listening ... it is for LIVING ... you got to feel it to know what's it about! Not being told! www.pedrosena.com |
Posted By: jamesbaldwin
Date Posted: April 02 2022 at 16:04
Yes, but he love especially John Zorn (5 albums in the list) and Frank Zappa. ------------- Amos Goldberg (professor of Genocide Studies at the Hebrew University in Jerusalem): Yes, it's genocide. It's so difficult and painful to admit it, but we can no longer avoid this conclusion. |
Posted By: jamesbaldwin
Date Posted: April 02 2022 at 16:05
None. ------------- Amos Goldberg (professor of Genocide Studies at the Hebrew University in Jerusalem): Yes, it's genocide. It's so difficult and painful to admit it, but we can no longer avoid this conclusion. |
Posted By: jamesbaldwin
Date Posted: April 02 2022 at 16:41
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There are some artists to whom Merlin has dedicated at least 4 albums. He identified them on the basis of the fact that they have pursued a continuous creative research, they have been able to provide many stimuli for the evolution of musical language, greatly influencing the music of their contemporaries. They are: 1) C. Debussy 2) A. Schoenberg 3) A, Webern 4) B. Bartok 5) I. Stravinskij 6) D. Ellington 7) F. Sinatra 8) T. Monk 9) J. Cage 10) M. Davis 11) K. Stockhausen 12) C. Mingus 13) S. Rollins 14) Sun Ra 15) J. Coltrane 16) O. Coleman 17) B. Evans 18) B. Dylan 19) The Beatles 20) The Rolling Stones 21) W. Shorter (+ W. Report) 22) F. Zappa 23) J. Hendrix 24) Pink Floyd 25) N. Young 26) R. Fripp (+ King Crimson) 27) J. McLaughlin (+ M. Orchestra) 28) J. Zawinul (+ W. Report) 29) B. Eno 30) R. Cooder 31) P. Gabriel (+ Genesis) 32) K. Jarrett 33) P. Metheny 34) J. Zorn. ------------- Amos Goldberg (professor of Genocide Studies at the Hebrew University in Jerusalem): Yes, it's genocide. It's so difficult and painful to admit it, but we can no longer avoid this conclusion. |