I'm not leaving my humble 2-way stereo for a fancy multi-channel setup (at least in the foreseeable future) BUT consider the addition of a subwoofer to my actual rig if that proves worthy.

Would any of you gentlemen share with me your practical experience on this matter (theoretical non-tested opinions will be mercilessly discarded) ?

Real-life suggestions, on the opposite, are very welcome ! (photo not obligatory)

Thank you, God Bless

JBL PSW-1000

I've used this for the last 25 years or so. I use it on a regular 2ch set up for both my TV/movie viewing and my main music. It has both the power to kick @ss and the smoothness to make you forget there is even a sub in play depending on the source.

Highly suggested! I run dual subs in my 2-channel setup (I don't have a HT setup, nor do I want one). I have dual SVS SB2000 subs run in stereo mode from my integrated amp. It has been the best upgrade to my speaker system short of buying new speakers which I'm not ready to do.

It all depends on what your main speakers are and their frequency range, how low do they go. I started out with one sub but found it created a bump around 60-70Hz I could not tame, the 2nd sub flattened everything out and pressurizes the room nicely when the music calls for it, as well made soundstage even wider than I already was experiencing.

Subwoofer setup is very critical to make sure it blends well with the mains...

https://www.svsound.com/products/sb-2000" rel="nofollow - https://www.svsound.com/products/sb-2000

Oh, my mains are...

era Design 4 Sat

https://6moons.com/audioreviews/era/era.html" rel="nofollow - https://6moons.com/audioreviews/era/era.html

My mains are Rega RX5 towers https://www.rega.co.uk/products/rx5" rel="nofollow - https://www.rega.co.uk/products/rx5

Two years ago I was in your situation: I'm very happy with my stereo set-up, although it is not necessarily that humble (a hybrid tube amp and a 3-way DIY speaker set at the heart of it). Sometimes I felt the lower end a bit lacking, so I got me a modest subwoofer.

The frequency range of my speaker set started at about 30-35 Hz. Not bad at all, but sometimes - and especially when watching films with the sound over my Hifi system - I felt something could be better. Now I added a subwoofer with a frequency range of 20 to 200 Hz and an adjustable Cross-over frequency of 50 to 150 Hz. I hesitated to get its bigger brother (with a range starting at 16 Hz), but I'm very happy with what I have now (a Magnat Monitor Sub 201A). Both for music and for films this - for the moment - convinced me that I don't need a fancy 5.1 or 7.1 multi-channel system. So, I would say: go for it - no need for a big investment, but it does make an interesting and enjoyable difference.

I've got walls, floors and furniture.

But seriously, as a former sound engineer myself I guess you might expect that I would go to the n'th degree to tune my listening space. Only here's the thing, I don't have the budget to even come close to it. I probably spend 0.001% of my life actually sitting and listening to music. Most often it is relegated to background sound as I work. Lastly, I don't have the RTA required to make any room treatment truly useful. I came to the realization a long time ago that my personal listening space was never going to come close to my time in the studio.

I think it was reading "Perfecting Sound Forever" by Greg Milner that brought me to that conclusion. It's really just chasing the end of the universe and I have so much more to do with my life.

Are? Not really anymore. As in not a job function. Last album I did was BUSKER's Northern Fantasies.

http://www.progarchives.com/album.asp?id=18105" rel="nofollow - http://www.progarchives.com/album.asp?id=18105

These days my music involvement is in the form of volunteer work as the Main Stage manager at the Orangeville Blues and Jazz Festival.

No, the side firing woofers are mounted almost mid cabinet, no blockage at all.

The sub(s) should blend with the main speakers, it should simply augment the low end of what your mains cannot do. Very very few main speakers today are built full range, meaning go to 20Hz, most roll off around 30Hz to as high as 50Hz (for small bookshelf models), so you are not experiencing the full range of the music without use of subs.

Sub setup is critical to achieving a great blend, and absolutely you can hear and feel the difference with subs on, sure I have plenty of music that is very difficult to tell any difference but when the music calls for it the subs make it so much more engaging, simply because you are hearing the full range of music, and nothing can correct a badly mixed recording.

Room treatments can help, but honestly most (90%) of pictures I see of peoples music rooms trying to use room treatments is not realistic. We all have furniture, windows, door ways, halls, tables, rugs, carpet, hard wood flooring, curtains, hanging pictures, you name it.....that you would never be able to effectively diffuse and create the reflections properly to make it sound better let alone look good for your spousal unit's approval . If you don't have the gear to accurately reproduce music that has sub 30Hz frequency, no room treatment will make that come out, it starts with the gear first.

I've measured my main speakers to about 32Hz, but with my subs I have measured to around 18Hz, that's extreme though. What I get is the sustain of low notes now, a standup bass pluck can now play longer since I hear/feel the whole sustain, rather than it getting cut off at say 40Hz. And when the music has it, my room will pressurize nicely and you feel the music as well hear it......It's pretty awesome.

I've used a program I have called TrueRTA. I know the mic I have is probably not calibrated well and I should use an interface between mic and laptop. But I have no HT so getting that stuff does not make sense for me. I've used both a static test tone but normally just use a sweep/chirp test tone set at 10Hz - 22KHz, the mic is set at about 1m from speakers. Anything over 78-80dB gets to be too loud for me on the chirps. When I setup my subs I start at 75dB for the tone on my mains, when done I end up around 79dB with all speakers playing the tone I'm setting crossover for.

I already have a very mild case of tinnitus, I don't need to make it worse!! 

Interesting.

My tinnitus has been pretty prevalent for the last few years. My wife loves to read and prefers silence, which I guess I understand. But that only makes the tinnitus more distracting. That's why I always like to have something playing above the tinnitus amplitude.  Think of it as JDolby.

I'm a classic case of loud concerts from back in the late 70s to now, as a teen never wearing ear protection at concerts and always fighting to get up front. Listening to loud music in the car, mainly cassette tapes and of course headphones at home at night......About 15yrs ago really noticed it coming on and I now wear ear protection at concerts as well when mowing my lawn or any loud machines. I listen with noise cancelling HP on planes but very low volume.

Sitting in front of the system at home it's rare I get above 90dB....where I do I buy the JDolby program!! 

Anyway, I notice the OP has not responded to any comments. Soooo.....

Whatcha say?

Sorry, following the news over this horrible Ukraine thing kept me away from PA for a few days but I returned today and read through the whole discussion.

Thank you guys, contributions much appreciated !

I run my music from the computer with Foobar 2000 and have an Advance Acoustic pre- and power amps

feeding Sonus Faber Grand Pianos

which are really superb but leave me sometimes longing for a more intense and exciting audio atmosphere when I'm in just that kind of mood that requires it.

Would the sub deliver that little extra juice ? From your comments it seems like it will, I'll report later my experience, cheers.

The picture looks like the Grand Piano Domus, the Grand Piano don't have that many drivers. Regardless the Domus is 30Hz and the other is 35Hz for low end, which is very good on it's own.

So that being said you need a sub that will extend well below 30Hz to make it effective. That's why I chose SVS subs (sealed) as my model is rated down to 19Hz.

If your using Foobar to play lossy files then your not going to gain anything......What happens in these cases is users will simply increase the sub gain and "think" they are hearing low end bass when all they are doing is increasing gain around 150-200Hz and it sounds really bad with just a bunch of boominess.

You should never hear the sub with your mains.....

^ Well, mister, that was just the extra info I was looking for (btw it's the Domus and Foo with lossless FLACs).

It happens I found the SVS dealer is just half an hour ride from where I live and they have a showroom, so...I will soon be on a Special Audio Mission ! (let's see if they allow me to bring home an unit on lease, the SF are too big to carry to the SR)

Thanks all

Sounds good......If your strictly going for 2-channel then I suggest staying with sealed subs, a ported sub is mainly for HT setup. A ported sub might be tuned to go lower but at the expense of a more boominess sound, which is fine for HT but not 2-channel......Again, unless that is what you want. Also the ported boxes are bigger, below is the SB2000 and PB2000 from SVS both with 12" drivers, big difference.

^ I'll keep that in mind, for sure ! (thks again)

Interesting stuff here.

I have had an ESS Heil AMT-1 for 40 years. Both speakers have been re-coned twice here in Portland by Ja-Mac.

If you know these (look them up) they have a large 12 incher, and then an "air-motion" transformer on top of the cabinet. All the music flows from those two pieces.

So in my 1st visit to Ja-Mac I asked about a "mid-range" since the speaker shows the lows and the highs really well, and the transformer does not require a "mid-range" per se ... the old man (Ja-Mac himself -- I think his sons run it now) says ... "what for?"

These speakers were what sold me on getting them, when I brought Tangerine Dream's Phaedra album to the store to decide which speakers I wanted and that LP shined awesome in some speakers and really trashy in the cheaper stuff, and it was then that I knew the difference between the high level stuff and the low level crap. A year later I had to get a better receiver ... np ... got a massive one that lasted 30 years ... and helped make the stereo system damn good ... and if I had to? I could blow the folks next door out of town very quickly! 

I bet, those are great speakers and could fetch $1500.00 on the used market easily depending on condition. You don't need a midrange driver, those speakers should be crossed over at a point that covers the lower and upper midrange. It just means the crossover is allowing the woofer to play higher up and the Heil tweeter to play lower, versus a 3-way speaker that would have a dedicated driver to play the midrange frequencies. 

I was going to go this way with my set up...but Mrs JD had some other ideas.

Build her a she-shed.....c'mon man, think!!!!! 

Our WHOLE HOUSE is a She-Shed !

We did a huge reno/add-on about 10 years ago. While I was designing it I had indicated a 'Media Room' on the plan. Well, it became a family room with a fireplace and TV (read: my honey's reading room) and all my media ended up in my office along with additional furniture for our boy when he moves out.

(sigh)

Dude really!!!     (plays whipping sound...) 

I guess I am lucky, my wife is perfectly fine with my taking over the down stairs for my music room. She would be fine if I had a system similar to the pic you posted......The second system is upstairs in the living room with my Epos Epic 2 speakers on stands. She would not care if I had 5,000 LPs either.....

It's not THAT bad !

I mean, she doesn't smoke anymore.

Hi,

Do a search ... they are still selling!!!! Place in LA. They fixed some of the electronics in one speaker that I had to send down to them. (Just the case and the electronics -- take the air motion transformer and the woofer out and mailed the case)

After an entertaining visit to the showroom I went for the SVS SB1000 Pro since couldn't hear any significant downside compared to the much pricier 2000 model, but that's me and my two aging ears, could certainly work differently for anyone else.

I've already switched the SW to the stereo and listening now to Underfall Yard 2021 remaster, what a shame David L is no longer with us, love his singing.

The sw surely adds an enjoyable punch to the whole experience, loving it, hope the wife doesn't contest the new box in the living room floor (placed it next to the rightside LS as per the seller suggestion)

There you go, congrats! Right side is where I had mine when I only had one.........Where do you have the sub crossed over at?

Thanks !

Good question ... only starting to understand the BT app settings, it's a first time remember.

Do you use the app too ? (and any suggestion, btw)

Only the Pro models have the app, I don't, so I have to go behind and make adjustments, which is fine cause once set no need to fool with it.

Sub setup can be involving, it's a detailed process I go thru which I can detail later if you want. 

But start here:

Your mains can play down to 35Hz, so suggest you cross over around 50Hz to start. Set the sub volume at 50%. The phase leave at 0 for now, that one to set optimally is the process. Now listen to music for the next day or so to get a baseline. I'll detail my process in another post.

Could be the sub volume is too high..where is it set at?

Unnatural could also mean, your not used to hearing the full frequency of music. Remember in todays world of iPhones and ear buds and clinical sounding of CDs, we are not used to full range sounds anymore or what some call warm sounds.

Precisely, we're on the same page (And that's what the sw is supposed to provide) what I mean by "unnatural" is not blending to the mix and standing out with a little too much reverb, if it's the correct expression, I'm lacking the right words maybe.

(could this be related to the crossover setting you asked just a while ago?)

Might be too loud.......What does the back panel show for volume and crossover? Could be the blend issue yes.

Yes, if you set the cross over too high your going to excite frequencies that don't need it, like 100Hz and higher, that's where the boominess will come from.

SVS recommends for my LS the following settings :

 low pass filter 50 hz with a slope 24db/octave

I'll try this and report soon, in the meantime I welcome any comment from the more experienced around.

thanks guys

As mentioned, 50Hz should be your staring point considering your mains freq response. PM coming.....

^ You're right, you had already mentioned that setting and it works well.

Coming next: the phase test/config routine...