There was really nothing progressive about Cream. Psychedelia and blues-rock. Love Cream, but they weren't prog. Or proto-prog. I would say the Eric Clapton-related band that was more progressive would have been Blind Faith. 

Agreed!

Fan_of_Genesis wrote: I think Cream should be added to the Psychedelic sub genre, just because Cream is pretty psychedelic. They were a pretty prevalent ‘60s Psych band, so yeah.

You've not presented a good argument for a psych band to be added to a prog database.   Cream certainly influenced what is called proto-prog, but that's about as far as it went.

^ Donald Trump?   Again, Trump had a minor influence on early progrock but not enough for a spot on a prog site.

I'm politically agnostic but it doesn't appear that Cindy went there so why did others?

Sugar... 

Ray

Then once we include Cream and Sugar, we'll have to include Salt-N-Pepa of course.

I used to think that Cream would be a worthy addition to Proto-Prog, and I hardly think it a ridiculous suggestion (we also have projects by Cream member in PA, Jack Bruce and Ginger Baker), but I also think that there are many more interesting and progressive groups with psych qualities from that time that could be considered before Cream.

I posted some of my earlier thoughts in this topic: http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=46247" rel="nofollow - http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=46247

I wouldn't be opposed myself to such a Proto-Prog addition from what I remember, but understand why others would.  And it has been discussed quite a few times.

No not Cindy's doing, just my own nonsense.

Projecting, dude! She's talking about the zillion other early psych bands like Velvet Underground that have been mentioned and have fuzzy connections to prog!

I was shocked that Sugar Ray made it to Metal Music Archives. I had no idea their first album was actually metal! WHOAH

I agree. We gotta draw the line, or else we'll be including everyone.

The first couple of albums I think, man, those were the days. ;)

All the more reason to keep out Cream if one's cuppa also needs a little Sugar ray stirred in, since the day that the words "Prog" and "Metal" are uttered in the same breath will be the day that Prog music is deemed officially dead. ;)  

Kidding, of course.  Love that Cream track, though.

Does that mean you need an exorcism? You seem to have lost your own voice!

exactly my thoughts 

I really like Tea and Symphony.

Progressive or not since not all Prog is truly progressive, if Pink Floyd is on this site with The Wall, then an argument could be made for him to also be here for Build That Wall!  Even if it was more like reinforce that fence.

"Tear down the wall...."

But I shouldn't prolong the Trump joke and keep the politics out, maybe by building a wall to contain it.

While I don't see Cream being added to the site, this was one of my favourite songs as a  teenager off one of my favourite albums.

By the way, I'll move this to General Music Discussions since the topic doesn't meet the Suggest New bands guidelines, and it has been discussed a number of times -- although those threads were auto locked.  

By the way, as much as I love Clapton and every project he was in, Cream is a blues-rock band with no real ties to progressive music. 

Start your bets! 

"In 1968 came the band's third release,  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wheels_of_Fire" rel="nofollow - Wheels of Fire , which topped the American charts. The album was recorded in a spate of short sessions from July 1967 to June 1968.^{[ https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Citation_needed" rel="nofollow -  Still a relative novelty, the double album of two LP records was well-suited to extended solos. The Wheels of Fire studio recordings showcased the band moving away from the blues and more towards a semi- https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Progressive_rock" rel="nofollow - progressive rock  style highlighted by odd  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Time_signature" rel="nofollow - time signatures  and various orchestral instruments."}

Not for or against just posting what Wiki says!

I'm sure Monica Lewinsky was a great admirer of his "Saxuality". 

I think the problem we have around here is that many consider ALL psychedelic rock prog. Well that's just not the case. Cream was a wonderfully inventive band but they were more proto-metal than prog. Experimental is not prog. Innovative is not prog and even though i love me some Cream, there is nothing that makes them rise to the prog occasion like other proto-prog bands listed on this site.

I'm still waiting for a true proto-prog band like Hard Meat to be evaluated!

Maybe it's only A Question Of Time before Eric Clapton is added to PA too, but then again, maybe not. 

why would Eric Clapton be added? 

 

From memory and knowledge, it's only Eric (alias Derek) of Derek and the Dominos for "Layla" that would be readily considerable.  That said, PA is not the ultimate Prog Rock "song" resource.

William Shatner!

And Leonard Nimoy too! 

let's move this to "just for fun" then

or close it... 

I agree

so either send this thread to "just for fun" for a laugh or two or close it. 

Oh damn, I was already laughing... sorry...

BTW, black for me, no Cream, no Sugar.

I already moved this to General Music Discussions and would rather not move it again unless I feel it's somehow necessary to the integrity of the site.  If someone else want to, fine, but I suspect this topic will just fall of the page anyway. It was fun to have such quick conversation before.  I couldn't keep up with it, but was on my iPad which made it even harder and by the time I got in with response there would be several messages posted in the meantime.

I wish there was more humour, not less across this site, I sometimes think.   This board is one of the most serious ones I've belonged to. If one wants to get things back on track, one can always try to post things about the topic at hand, respond to posts that are on topic that one finds interesting and share one;s own insights.  Writing something scintillating on topic or controversial can work. ;) I had hoped this might turn into a general Cream appreciation thread.

And by the way, if we add Cream, we might just have to add Korn (creamed corn or garmonbozia as it exists in the Twin Peaks universe).

Oh gosh, I was just looking at images and came across this (too bad I suggested avoiding the politics thing, I would have loved to embed it): https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DPVGiJGVoAAijsB.jpg" rel="nofollow - https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DPVGiJGVoAAijsB.jpg

A little bit of me would like to see Cream in the archives, but it's all part of my master plan to get The Shagg's Philosophy of the World in PA.

Funnily enough, the more I listen to Cream these days, the less I appreciate it and the less progressive it seems, and I used to love this band.  The blues Spoonful live was my favourite. For a bluesy jammy band, I'd sooner have the Grateful Dead in PA (and I don't really support that).  I think there is some case for inclusion, especially due to personnel already in PA, but there's a ton of stuff I'd sooner see in that has a psych and prog relation. 

Hmm, the door to the Dead's inclusion is open just a hair more.

https://www.google.com/url?sa=i&url=http%3A%2F%2Fclipart-library.com%2Ffree%2Fgrateful-dead-logo-png.html&psig=AOvVaw019GeQGUDBrEbMlDVwwWTo&ust=1633217535025000&source=images&cd=vfe&ved=0CAkQjRxqFwoTCICC1sqvqvMCFQAAAAAdAAAAABAE" rel="nofollow -

https://www.google.com/url?sa=i&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.clipartkey.com%2Fview%2FoThbwJ_hippie-psychedelic-deadhead-greatfuldead-bear-mydrunken-psychedelic-grateful%2F&psig=AOvVaw019GeQGUDBrEbMlDVwwWTo&ust=1633217535025000&source=images&cd=vfe&ved=0CAkQjRxqFwoTCICC1sqvqvMCFQAAAAAdAAAAABAT" rel="nofollow -    -- John F. Kennedy

Even Toto is worthier than Cream, obviously under prog-related. 

Well of course but experimental and prog are two totally different attributes of music. Some of my favorite music is BOTH prog and experimental but this is prog archives not experimental archives :D

And C.A. Quintet's Trip Thru Hell from 1969 (not in PA that I could find) is more progressive, experimental and interesting to these ears than Cream.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_mLkm1nMJXs" rel="nofollow - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_mLkm1nMJXs

Maybe I'll check and see if it's been suggested.

And maybe we could add Serge Gainsbourg for Histoire de Melody Nelson and Cannabis. ;)  Another I've wanted to formally propose is Matt Berry, and The Rutles for the non-existent "Related to Prog-Related" category.

I'll let the ridiculous posts and trolling flow next time. 

Will you ever forgive me? 

my sarcasm didn't come out for you? 

Oh well... 

If you put the Pet Sounds album close to your ear, you can hear the waves. 

yes and no.. but both far more progressive than much of the schlock that passes for fusion on this site IMO.
 

Hi,

I really do not like "cream" in my morning drink. Maybe a little milk, but in general no. As for that band, it was fun to listen to while it lasted, but "progressive"? Shiver me timbers ... are we that bored that we have to think that everything out there is "progressive"? Get ... I wanna vote for The Cowsills now since I can't vote for The Grateful Dead.

Hi,

I think that a couple more of old timers that think "traditionalistically" and then vote in a cheap group with a first album they will never repeat again before turning into pop music ... would have to retire or slow down. TGD may not be here, but the long cuts and the atmosphere they brought to the music itself is such a huge part of "progressive" ... unless of course you got the fanboys that have to have the loud guitar solo (that doesn't even fit in the actual music itself!), and some sort of blue guitar to satisfy a book, and a green drummer to show he can't do anything except keep time, and who thinks that his drumming is what makes the music ... someday, maybe someday ... we will know the difference!

Traffic are on PA.

http://www.progarchives.com/artist.asp?id=1490" rel="nofollow - http://www.progarchives.com/artist.asp?id=1490  

You certainly have my support in this regard. 

I think it would be cool to have Scott Walker here too, if only for what he accomplished during the latter part of his career.

I had an idea to write a bio for a "true story"* of the Shaggs, how they were actually professionally trained musicians, as well as being anthropologists and sociologists, that enlisted a Nobel prize winning philosopher who was also an acclaimed poet to pen the lyrics.  They set out to make a seemingly primitivist avant-garde album with a deep social message (I doubt many get the allegorical nature of My Pal Foot Foot) as something of a social experiment and performance art.  They hired those young girls to pose as the band, rather like with Milli Vanilli's singers posing as the actual singers to create an image in pop culture.

If The Beatles is here and Zappa did say that The Shaggs is better than The Beatles, and Zappa is an important presence in PA, then surely The Shaggs should be too, to be Frank.  ;)

Except...it's not a true story. And Zappa never said that about the Beatles either (a misquote by Lester Bangs). My favorite Shagg reference was from a critic who said the Shaggs sounded "like lobotomized Trapp family singers." 

pop-art? 

I forgot, I've got to lighten up, let the ridiculousness and the trolling flow! 

I'm working on his bio for a future suggestion submission!

And the Shaggs are great, let's get them in under RIO/Avant or Krautrock 

It is a true story as it is truly a story in the sense of being an imaginary account from my probably not imaginary brain.  As for the Zappa one, thus the "If..."  Thanks for the info, I had forgotten Lester Bangs (you might have been the one to tell me before when I mentioned that oft quoted Zappa misquote.  And I love that critics quote.

-------------------------------------------

Me getting philosophical again and using others expressed notions as a jumping off point for my own noodling thoughts.

By the way, I don't see these posts as trolling, but I'd have to know how one defines the term. Trolling was to me commonly a deliberate deception and attempt meant to antagonise and disrupt others and seeks to elicit a reaction. I think sometimes kidding around is confused with trolling by some.  It comes down to intent.  The reason why the saying is "Don't feed the trolls" is because they are looking for a reaction.  I was a troll before I knew what a troll was.  I wish I had a record of my posts from a Queer As Folk forum in the early 2000s.  That was actually more like multi-character story telling as I was writing both a play and a screenplay then for university courses and it helped to get my creative juices going, but that they were so nice that I felt terrible about the deception (I thought the story-telling nature rather than truth would be obvious, but I continued even though people were taking me in good faith, and if they were suspicious, they didn't say).   I used to tell my kids, you're more likely to be bullied bully you if you react negatively and take offence easily and to be quicker to laugh rather than to complain and all that jazz, and don't be a buzzkill. Be cool, be casual, don't whine I still have to remind myself sometimes when I'm having a bad day.

From a deeply meaningful song to me that helped me in my teenage years (I spent half a year of being bullied mercilessly in grade eight when I went to a new school, but I learnt how to deal with it and it stopped):

Actually, there is probably a damned fine concept album in the utterly ridiculous media storm around her and her father.

Baker & Bruce hated each other, but they agreed on one thing:

"Cream was a jazz band... but we never told Clapton"