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Category: Progressive Music Lounges
Forum Name: Top 10s and lists
Forum Description: List all your favourites here
URL: http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=127154 Printed Date: November 23 2024 at 14:51 Software Version: Web Wiz Forums 11.01 - http://www.webwizforums.com
Topic: Bands that got better and betterPosted By: Lewian
Subject: Bands that got better and better
Date Posted: August 26 2021 at 04:34
I wrote in the "best album worst album" thread that Talk Talk's worst album is the first and their best album is the last. The latter one may be an unpopular choice (most probably think that The Spirit of Eden is best), however I think that they really became better with every single album (if over the last three only by 0.01% per album ).
Are there any other bands that
a) have at least four albums, and
b) their last album is the best and their first is the worst, or, even better, of which every album is better than the one before?
Seems quite unusual to me. Most bands tend to pack it in after a last album that didn't really work, or they go on well after their prime. I'm not blaming them... play as long as you have fun, but don't be surprised that fans tend to be nostalgic...
"First album worst" is probably more normal; many bands take some time to find their best shape. (I'm not asking to list all those.)
Replies: Posted By: Psychedelic Paul
Date Posted: August 26 2021 at 05:47
Lewian wrote:
I wrote in the "best album worst album" thread that Talk Talk's worst album is the first and their best album is the last. The latter one may be an unpopular choice (most probably think that The Spirit of Eden is best), however I think that they really became better with every single album (if over the last three only by 0.01% per album ).
fans tend to be nostalgic...)
Funnily enough, while we're talking about Talk Talk, their "best album" for me is their debut and their "worst album" is a Laughing Stock, which is no laughing matter.
Posted By: omphaloskepsis
Date Posted: August 26 2021 at 05:58
Simon and Garfunkel, The Beatles, and Wobbler come close.
If you had asked this question in 1981, I'd nominate Rush.
Cocteau Twins got better with each album until 1990's Heaven or Las Vegas.
Posted By: Lewian
Date Posted: August 26 2021 at 06:02
Psychedelic Paul wrote:
Lewian wrote:
I wrote in the "best album worst album" thread that Talk Talk's worst album is the first and their best album is the last. The latter one may be an unpopular choice (most probably think that The Spirit of Eden is best), however I think that they really became better with every single album (if over the last three only by 0.01% per album ).
fans tend to be nostalgic...)
Funnily enough, while we're talking about Talk Talk, their "best album" for me is their debut and their "worst album" is a Laughing Stock, which is no laughing matter.
Now mine may be a minority position, and I do realise that the last two albums are not for everyone, but yours seems to be even more outlandish. You seriously prefer The Party's Over to It's My Life and The Colour of Spring?
Posted By: chopper
Date Posted: August 26 2021 at 06:13
Lewian wrote:
Psychedelic Paul wrote:
Lewian wrote:
I wrote in the "best album worst album" thread that Talk Talk's worst album is the first and their best album is the last. The latter one may be an unpopular choice (most probably think that The Spirit of Eden is best), however I think that they really became better with every single album (if over the last three only by 0.01% per album ).
fans tend to be nostalgic...)
Funnily enough, while we're talking about Talk Talk, their "best album" for me is their debut and their "worst album" is a Laughing Stock, which is no laughing matter.
Now mine may be a minority position, and I do realise that the last two albums are not for everyone, but yours seems to be even more outlandish. You seriously prefer The Party's Over to It's My Life and The Colour of Spring?
To be fair, Talk Talk's last few albums sound like a different band to the one who made their debut album. I once saw them in their early days supporting Duran Duran, they were very much a synth-pop kind of band then. Having said that, "Spirit of Eden" is the best album that they, or in fact anyone, made. imo of course.
Posted By: BrufordFreak
Date Posted: August 26 2021 at 06:18
A rare thing--especially for bands with long careers. These are the only ones that come to mind for me:
Posted By: omphaloskepsis
Date Posted: August 26 2021 at 06:30
BrufordFreak wrote:
A rare thing--especially for bands with long careers. These are the only ones that come to mind for me:
maudlin of The Well
Pendragon
Cicada (the Tiawanese Post Rock chamber band)
Monobody
Weserbergland
John Holden
Karnivool
Bubblemath
Motorpsycho
Midas Fall
Landberk
Battlestations
Anna Von Hausswolff
That's a good list. Ciccada (Greek Eclectic Prog) has a solid three album run...alas one short.
Posted By: Saperlipopette!
Date Posted: August 26 2021 at 06:33
Lewian wrote:
Psychedelic Paul wrote:
Lewian wrote:
I wrote in the "best album worst album" thread that Talk Talk's worst album is the first and their best album is the last. The latter one may be an unpopular choice (most probably think that The Spirit of Eden is best), however I think that they really became better with every single album (if over the last three only by 0.01% per album ).
fans tend to be nostalgic...)
Funnily enough, while we're talking about Talk Talk, their "best album" for me is their debut and their "worst album" is a Laughing Stock, which is no laughing matter.
Now mine may be a minority position, and I do realise that the last two albums are not for everyone, but yours seems to be even more outlandish. You seriously prefer The Party's Over to It's My Life and The Colour of Spring?
Yours is not a minority position really. The ratings (and number of ratings/reviews) at RYM is close to "consensus" among music interested people and critics alike in regards to their album post break-up popularity.
Posted By: Lewian
Date Posted: August 26 2021 at 06:43
^ Nice one. I tend to think that this illustrates how strange a bunch of people RYM raters are. I'm fine with that of course.
@BrufordFreak: Nice list. I don't know all Battlestations and Motorpsycho albums, but from those I know I tend to agree that they got better and better.
Posted By: Psychedelic Paul
Date Posted: August 26 2021 at 06:58
Lewian wrote:
Psychedelic Paul wrote:
Lewian wrote:
I wrote in the "best album worst album" thread that Talk Talk's worst album is the first and their best album is the last. The latter one may be an unpopular choice (most probably think that The Spirit of Eden is best), however I think that they really became better with every single album (if over the last three only by 0.01% per album ).
fans tend to be nostalgic...)
Funnily enough, while we're talking about Talk Talk, their "best album" for me is their debut and their "worst album" is a Laughing Stock, which is no laughing matter.
Now mine may be a minority position, and I do realise that the last two albums are not for everyone, but yours seems to be even more outlandish. You seriously prefer The Party's Over to It's My Life and The Colour of Spring?
Actually, I think yours is the majority opinion here at ProgArchives, seeing as many PA members regard Spirit of Eden as being Talk Talk's best album by far, but yes, in my case I really do like The Party's Over album best of all. After all, it's the only Talk Talk album I bought on the original vinyl and it also features the two hit singles, "Today" and "Talk Talk"
Going back to the subject of your original question, I think YES are one of the bands that have improved over time, with Talk (1994) and The Ladder (1999) being my two favourite YES albums overall. Yes, really!
I'll also mention ELP too, where Works Vol. 1, Love Beach and Black Moon are all preferable to Trilogy and Brain Salad Surgery, although I realise that's a minority opinion here.
Posted By: chopper
Date Posted: August 26 2021 at 07:06
Psychedelic Paul wrote:
Going back to the subject of your original question, I think YES are one of the bands that have improved over time, with Talk (1994) and The Ladder (1999) being my two favourite YES albums overall. Yes, really!
I'll also mention ELP too, where Works Vol. 1, Love Beach and Black Moon are all preferable to Trilogy and Brain Salad Surgery, although I realise that's a minority opinion here.
As you say, minority opinions and the op says bands who's best album is their last. You're not going to convince many people that Heaven & Earth is Yes' best album (or the next one when it comes out). Same with ELP.
Posted By: Psychedelic Paul
Date Posted: August 26 2021 at 07:17
chopper wrote:
Psychedelic Paul wrote:
Going back to the subject of your original question, I think YES are one of the bands that have improved over time, with Talk (1994) and The Ladder (1999) being my two favourite YES albums overall. Yes, really!
I'll also mention ELP too, where Works Vol. 1, Love Beach and Black Moon are all preferable to Trilogy and Brain Salad Surgery, although I realise that's a minority opinion here.
As you say, minority opinions and the op says bands who's best album is their last. You're not going to convince many people that Heaven & Earth is Yes' best album (or the next one when it comes out). Same with ELP.
Even I wouldn't go so far as to claim that Heaven & Earth is the best Yes album, or that Love Beach is the best ELP album, although they're both in my respective Top 7 albums lists for each band.
Posted By: Saperlipopette!
Date Posted: August 26 2021 at 07:17
Lewian wrote:
^ Nice one. I tend to think that this illustrates how strange a bunch of people RYM raters are. I'm fine with that of course.
Not really. It reflects what music interested people around the world are into - and still listen to. You'd find the same "result" at Allmusic, Pitchfork (where only their two last albums are reviewed). Here's the incoming result from Sputnikmusic (and you'll find a similar trend at PA, except that Spirit of Eden is 1 and Laughing Stock 2):
Posted By: Lewian
Date Posted: August 26 2021 at 07:20
^ Maybe music interested people around the world are a strange bunch of people.
Posted By: miamiscot
Date Posted: August 26 2021 at 07:57
Talk Talk is the right call here. All five albums are super cool but they got better and better.
------------- The Prog Corner
Posted By: Saperlipopette!
Date Posted: August 26 2021 at 09:03
Lewian wrote:
^ Maybe music interested people around the world are a strange bunch of people.
Perhaps. People that aren't interested in music probably recognizes It's My Life and Life's What You Make It (+ maybe It's A Shame), but probably doesn't don't know the name of the band behind them. They most certainly doesn't have any Talk Talk album preferences.
Posted By: Nogbad_The_Bad
Date Posted: August 26 2021 at 09:34
Lewian wrote:
Psychedelic Paul wrote:
Lewian wrote:
I wrote in the "best album worst album" thread that Talk Talk's worst album is the first and their best album is the last. The latter one may be an unpopular choice (most probably think that The Spirit of Eden is best), however I think that they really became better with every single album (if over the last three only by 0.01% per album ).
fans tend to be nostalgic...)
Funnily enough, while we're talking about Talk Talk, their "best album" for me is their debut and their "worst album" is a Laughing Stock, which is no laughing matter.
Now mine may be a minority position, and I do realise that the last two albums are not for everyone, but yours seems to be even more outlandish. You seriously prefer The Party's Over to It's My Life and The Colour of Spring?
I'm with you Lewian
------------- Ian
Host of the Post-Avant Jazzcore Happy Hour on Progrock.com
Posted By: Mirakaze
Date Posted: August 26 2021 at 09:36
If you'd asked me a year ago I would have answered Rascal Reporters (and I apologize for talking about this band too much). Their debut is a bit patchy and meandering but every album they've made after that has been great, and while I don't think they followed a consistent upward line of quality the whole time, their 2019 album Redux 1 is one of my favourite albums of all time. Their latest release from this year is still really good but not quite up to that standard in my opinion.
Posted By: Progmind
Date Posted: August 26 2021 at 10:35
Agree with Lewian, Talk Talk is the right answer.
Another great band that evolve is Enslaved
Posted By: progaardvark
Date Posted: August 26 2021 at 11:29
I combed through my entire collection and found this to be an especially difficult task. The only artist I found that qualifies is Versus X (four albums all better than the previous; PA also reflects this). Two other artists where I feel like they've been better with each album, but isn't reflected with PA ratings is Discipline and The Horse Lords.
It seems many bands followed a bell curve pattern (with some wobbles) or wobbled around a bit. A few start off going in the opposite direction: great debut, but each following release was slightly less interesting.
I'm not familiar with Talk Talk, but they have been on my list of future things to listen to for a long while now.
------------- ---------- i'm shopping for a new oil-cured sinus bag that's a happy bag of lettuce this car smells like cartilage nothing beats a good video about fractions
Posted By: Nogbad_The_Bad
Date Posted: August 26 2021 at 12:07
Hard for me to think of too many, it's more a case of reaching a level of consistency and then maintaining it over an extended period. These may qualify
Nik Bartsch Ronin
Henry Cow
Led Bib
Vezhlivy Otkaz
------------- Ian
Host of the Post-Avant Jazzcore Happy Hour on Progrock.com
Posted By: omphaloskepsis
Date Posted: August 26 2021 at 12:33
Logos
Posted By: Logan
Date Posted: August 26 2021 at 12:54
As an artist, the closest I can think of with a sizable career is David Bowie. I like the debut, but it is commonly low rated (maybe not the lowest studio, that might be Never Let Me Down, which I haven't heard), and sure some 70s albums might commonly be considered better than Blackstar, but for me Blackstar is an awesome album, and the one of his that I have been most obsessed with of his since it came out. And yes, this topic is in the Prog section, but to me David Bowie is a kind Crossover Art Rock Prog for plenty of material to make his considerable for a Progressive Music lounge forum.
------------- https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLXcp9fYc6K4IKuxIZkenfvukL_Y8VBqzK" rel="nofollow - Duos for fave acts
Posted By: someone_else
Date Posted: August 26 2021 at 13:37
Anekdoten.
-------------
Posted By: The Anders
Date Posted: August 26 2021 at 16:09
That's a tough question. I think almost all musicians or composers have had ups and downs. Very often, musicians become increasingly mature over a period of time, and then they top, after which their output is of mixed quality.
If we allow the world of classical music into this discussion, I would mention Mozart as a composer whose work simply became better and better. Just hold his earliest child compositions up against Die Zauberflöte...
Posted By: Lewian
Date Posted: August 26 2021 at 16:45
Bowie is a great pick when it comes to "first album worst, last album best". Some of his albums I don't know and he had some ups and downs in between, but I agree with Blackstar being phantastic and his best, and the first hardly resonates with me.
I'd never have thought of Mozart, but I tend to agree.
Anekdoten, Henry Cow are rather overall consistent for me, but surely not bands who ended on a low (if they ended at all).
I don't know (or not more than one album) of some others listed but I have some respect for bands who are characterised in this way, so maybe I check their last albums to see whether they are for me.
Posted By: richardh
Date Posted: August 26 2021 at 16:53
someone_else wrote:
Anekdoten.
they have even ratings over the 6 studio albums although the last is certainly the highest rated on PA and also has 300ish more ratings than most of the others so that has a strong case for being the best , however there are no clear worst ones. A lot of the big Swedish prog acts of the 90's onwards were very strong at the outset. They seemed to have their identity well set and managed to avoid a 'finding themselves' early period that many prog bands require.
Posted By: Saperlipopette!
Date Posted: August 27 2021 at 00:09
Boredoms for sure. They started out as pretty awful (to my ears) noise rock in
the mid-eighties but piqued my interest with their ninth album, the great Super æ (1998), then followed up with the even more awesome Vision Creation Newsun (1999) and finally there's Seadrum/ House of Sun (2004) - their near perfect swan song.
Posted By: Lewian
Date Posted: August 27 2021 at 04:03
^That's interesting. A Japanese friend gave me some of their earlier
stuff and I didn't like most of it. It did include Super ae, which was
clearly better than the others, but didn't make me explore their later
work. Half way through the one you linked now, it's cool!
Posted By: Shadowyzard
Date Posted: August 27 2021 at 04:13
I believe Vanden Plas have gotten better and better beginning with their album Christ 0. Most might not agree, but I like their stuff after that album better.
Posted By: someone_else
Date Posted: August 27 2021 at 04:25
richardh wrote:
someone_else wrote:
Anekdoten.
they have even ratings over the 6 studio albums although the last is certainly the highest rated on PA and also has 300ish more ratings than most of the others so that has a strong case for being the best , however there are no clear worst ones. A lot of the big Swedish prog acts of the 90's onwards were very strong at the outset. They seemed to have their identity well set and managed to avoid a 'finding themselves' early period that many prog bands require.
I fully agree that Anekdoten don't have any clear worst albums: all are 4* and up in my book. But there is an ascending line (imho of course) in Gravity - A Time of Day - Until All the Ghosts Are Gone.
-------------
Posted By: cstack3
Date Posted: August 27 2021 at 14:28
Dutch band Focus seemed to get better with time, but I don't know their catalog very well.
I thought this recent reprise from "Moving Waves" is very moving and powerful!
------------- I am not a Robot, I'm a FREE MAN!!
Posted By: Frenetic Zetetic
Date Posted: August 27 2021 at 23:08
I'd argue GORGUTS, and I know 9/10 of PA hasn't heard a single track lol.
-------------
"I am so prog, I listen to concept albums on shuffle." -KMac2021
Posted By: Cristi
Date Posted: August 28 2021 at 04:22
Frenetic Zetetic wrote:
I'd argue GORGUTS, and I know 9/10 of PA hasn't heard a single track lol.
I don't listen to much death metal, but Gorguts debut is great.
Posted By: iluvmarillion
Date Posted: September 01 2021 at 00:48
I'll have to go IQ here. Tales from the Lush Attic is a pretty good album but their last three over thirty years after their debut album are so much better than the debut one.
Posted By: richardh
Date Posted: September 01 2021 at 00:55
iluvmarillion wrote:
I'll have to go IQ here. Tales from the Lush Attic is a pretty good album but their last three over thirty years after their debut album are so much better than the debut one.
although for 1983 it was actually amazing but now is very dated. The last album could well be their best in all round aspects (performance, production and great songs). Good shout!
Posted By: nick_h_nz
Date Posted: September 01 2021 at 02:13
Logan wrote:
As an artist, the closest I can think of with a sizable career is David Bowie. I like the debut, but it is commonly low rated (maybe not the lowest studio, that might be Never Let Me Down, which I haven't heard), and sure some 70s albums might commonly be considered better than Blackstar, but for me Blackstar is an awesome album, and the one of his that I have been most obsessed with of his since it came out. And yes, this topic is in the Prog section, but to me David Bowie is a kind Crossover Art Rock Prog for plenty of material to make his considerable for a Progressive Music lounge forum.
Bowie was the first person to spring to my mind when I read the OP. I own every one of his albums, and while his discography is not a straightforward upward pattern, the debut is easily his least impressive album, and Blackstar easily his most impressive. Blackstar is not just an impressive final album for Bowie, but one of the most impressive final albums of any artist, ever. (And, regardless of how Bowie is labelled in PA, his music is prog to me.)
------------- https://tinyurl.com/nickhnz-tpa" rel="nofollow - Reviewer for The Progressive Aspect
Posted By: richardh
Date Posted: September 02 2021 at 01:33
Yep Blackstar would be a fantastic album coming from anyone , but made more so coming from someone terminally ill. Amazing man and possibly the greatest loss to music in decades.
Posted By: essexboyinwales
Date Posted: September 02 2021 at 06:05
richardh wrote:
iluvmarillion wrote:
I'll have to go IQ here. Tales from the Lush Attic is a pretty good album but their last three over thirty years after their debut album are so much better than the debut one.
although for 1983 it was actually amazing but now is very dated. The last album could well be their best in all round aspects (performance, production and great songs). Good shout!
IQ have been remarkably consistent from the beginning, with not a bad album anywhere, but for me Resistance is still a disappointment and bucks their trend....
Posted By: Hrychu
Date Posted: September 02 2021 at 07:42
Simon Says. Ok, they only had 3 albums, but each one was miles better than the previous.
------------- “On the day of my creation, I fell in love with education. And overcoming all frustration, a teacher I became.” — Ernest Vong
Posted By: Lewian
Date Posted: September 02 2021 at 07:44
richardh wrote:
Yep Blackstar would be a fantastic album coming from anyone , but made more so coming from someone terminally ill. Amazing man and possibly the greatest loss to music in decades.
...but then it wouldn't have come from anyone... it needs a terminally ill genius to do that album.
Posted By: Frenetic Zetetic
Date Posted: September 02 2021 at 10:21
Death got better and better with each record IMHO. I have my favorites, but it's hard to deny the progression between records.
-------------
"I am so prog, I listen to concept albums on shuffle." -KMac2021
Posted By: projeKct
Date Posted: September 02 2021 at 16:10
I would say MAJOR PARKINSON with 4 albums, and their fifth one coming soon!
First album was already excellent, and they keep improving on each release! WOW!
Posted By: Lewian
Date Posted: September 02 2021 at 16:39
Frenetic Zetetic wrote:
Death got better and better with each record IMHO. I have my favorites, but it's hard to deny the progression between records.
I expect my death to be of pretty consistent quality. In fact I'd be quite surprised if it became either markedly better or worse with time, but who knows...
Posted By: Magog2112
Date Posted: August 02 2023 at 10:23
Galahad and Pendragon come to mind when I think about bands that are consistent with each record that they release and get progressively better.