80s King Crimson
Printed From: Progarchives.com
Category: Progressive Music Lounges
Forum Name: Prog Bands, Artists and Genres Appreciation
Forum Description: Discuss specific prog bands and their members or a specific sub-genre
URL: http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=126207
Printed Date: December 01 2024 at 23:57
Software Version: Web Wiz Forums 11.01 - http://www.webwizforums.com
Topic: 80s King Crimson
Posted By: PJMarten
Subject: 80s King Crimson
Date Posted: April 29 2021 at 18:23
| I love the King Crimson catalogue, however, it took me a while to get to their 80's albums (Discipline, Beat, Three of a Perfect Pair). They failed to impress me initially and I worked my way around this decade. Recently though, I gave these albums a more thorough listen and have gained a new appreciation for them. They are truly unique (just like all of King Crimson's albums really) and fun to listen to. Some of my favorite songs are Frame by Frame, Absent Lovers, and Dig Me. What are your thoughts on these albums and what are your favorite songs? |
Replies:
Posted By: JD
Date Posted: April 29 2021 at 18:57
|
Excellent albums for an 80's prog release period. I don't really have a favourite as I view them as a collective work of sorts. ------------- Thank you for supporting independently produced music |
Posted By: AFlowerKingCrimson
Date Posted: April 29 2021 at 19:07
| I haven't heard those albums in a long time. I'll need to revisit again. I think 3OAPP is very underrated. I hated it for the longest time before it finally clicked with me. |
Posted By: Grumpyprogfan
Date Posted: April 29 2021 at 19:25
| Belew brought new life and ideas to the table. "Discipline" is a classic. |
Posted By: omphaloskepsis
Date Posted: April 29 2021 at 19:33
| Sometimes, I have difficulty with Belew's vocals. That said, I like all three. Discipline is my favorite followed by Three of a Perfect Pair, then Beat. |
Posted By: Progosopher
Date Posted: April 29 2021 at 20:16
|
Three great albums. I have always considered Discipline the best, but two of my favorite KC songs are on Beat - Neil and Jack and Me, and Sartori in Tangier. 3oaPP has Sleepless, of course. ------------- The world of sound is certainly capable of infinite variety and, were our sense developed, of infinite extensions. -- George Santayana, "The Sense of Beauty" |
Posted By: Heart of the Matter
Date Posted: April 29 2021 at 21:07
| I think these albums sooner or later drag you to their own world, specially the first two. Matte Kudasai is the first song in the batch that started to feel like a classic to me. |
Posted By: Little_Julian
Date Posted: April 29 2021 at 22:56
| Imo, King Crimson’s “new wave” stuff from the 80s sounds quite dated now. To these ears, KC' Sinfield-era is that period from which their music is really beautiful, surreal, many-headed prog-rock puzzle that is still uncanny and timeless. |
Posted By: Frenetic Zetetic
Date Posted: April 29 2021 at 23:23
|
I repeat myself when under stress I repeat myself when under stress I repeat myself when under stress I repeat... Belew rules. I love 80's KC. Discipline is the best of the three (of a perfect pair). ------------- "I am so prog, I listen to concept albums on shuffle." -KMac2021 |
Posted By: A Crimson Mellotron
Date Posted: April 30 2021 at 00:41
|
They are awesome listens when under stress |
Posted By: Blacksword
Date Posted: April 30 2021 at 01:47
|
Probably my least favourite era of the band, but good albums nonetheless. I don't think I have an overall favourite album from this era. There's some good tracks on each album. Frame by Frame Matte Kudasai Neal & Jack and me Sartori in Tangier Heartbeat Three of a perfect pair. There are probably new wave bands, who clearly influenced Fripp at this time, some of who I prefer to KC in the 80's, notably XTC. ------------- Ultimately bored by endless ecstasy! |
Posted By: richardh
Date Posted: April 30 2021 at 01:52
| I don't like them but respect that the band was trying a different direction. |
Posted By: Awesoreno
Date Posted: April 30 2021 at 02:25
| I WISH YOU WERE HERE TO SEE IT! |
Posted By: Sean Trane
Date Posted: April 30 2021 at 04:38
The only one I still retain nowadays (the 40th anniv). I
find Beat fairly weak (it's a bit of a replay of Discipline with much
lesser compositions and no surprise) and I actually prefer Perfect Pair
to it. Yessssss, Belew certainly added that
Talking Heads edge to Crimson (he never recorded with TTH, but toured
with them in the extended line-up that finally gave the Stop making
Sense movie), but I still shuned them (Crimson) live back then - not
that I actually saw TTH either - other than through the Jonathan Demme
movie. The only thing Beat has really going for itself compared to the other two is that they theme up of Beat Poets (Sartori, Heartbeat, Neal Jack & Me, etc...) please note the colours +/- match the early albums (not sure it was meant that way, but it is coincidental) Red majority for Discipline & Court Blue for Beat and Poseidon Yellow for Pair and Lizard. TBH,
all I need from that line-up would be the Absent Lover live album
(check) or the Neal, Jack & Me DVD (still looking) from that line-up
. ------------- let's just stay above the moral melee prefer the sink to the gutter keep our sand-castle virtues content to be a doer as well as a thinker, prefer lifting our pen rather than un-sheath our sword |
Grumpyprogfan wrote:Posted By: Lewian
Date Posted: April 30 2021 at 05:06
|
I'm a big fan of that period. This was at the time when I properly got into music. I loved prog as far as I knew it but also quite a bit of new wave/post punk. I only had and knew Court of the Crimson King when I saw them live in 1982, and the totally blew me away. One of these moments when I heard music that was not only good but done in a way that I couldn't have imagined to be possible. The perfect synthesis of the sophistication of prog and the leaner new wave approach, with super original compositions, and top notch musicians. So much sharper than Court and the old stuff (which of course has its own qualities). I list Discipline among the best five albums of all time up to these days and would still give five stars to all three. Even the more straight and commercial stuff (Heartbeat, Sleepless) appeals to me. However recently I would list the instrumentals among my top favourites: The Sheltering Sky, Sartori in Tangier, Industry. Rarely mentioned but true monster tracks and less "KC by numbers" than some of the LTIA re-iterations (not that I don't like them).
|
Posted By: Cristi
Date Posted: April 30 2021 at 06:54
| my least favorite KC period, I rarely listen to these three albums. |
Posted By: BaldJean
Date Posted: April 30 2021 at 07:00
|
my favorite track from these three albums is "Neurotica", followed by "Indiscipline" -------------  A shot of me as High Priestess of Gaia during our fall festival. Ceterum censeo principiis obsta |
Posted By: Manuel
Date Posted: April 30 2021 at 07:10
| King Crimson has had many faces during their career, and they are all quite excellent, if you listen carefully and pay attention to the complexity of their compositions. |
Posted By: Gully Foyle
Date Posted: April 30 2021 at 07:39
| I think 80's KC is pretty darn extraordinary - my favorite period of the band. The interlocking guitar madness is so delicious. Dig Me, Neurotica, Sartori in Tangier, Sleepless, Discipline, Indiscipline, Threee of a Perfect Pair, THE SHELTERING SKY, just so many amazing moments. When i first encountered this music it was so radically different from anything i had heard that I was confused - i remember asking the older brother of a friend of mine who played it for us, what kind of music is this? He said I don't know. I still feel that way about these songs - but i love them. I fairly quickly collected the catalogue, and started seeing them live during the double trio era, but these albums (and the Absent Lovers live album) are the pinnacle. Not knocking other eras - SABB, LTIA, Red are my second favorite set (LTIA and Red are like messages from a parallel reality), but there is a lot more 'filler' in the Court-Lizard era and Double Duo onwards era in my humble and perhaps erroneous opinion |
Posted By: Nogbad_The_Bad
Date Posted: April 30 2021 at 07:56
|
Wonderful stuff, Discipline is one of their best albums overall, really interesting stuff & Belew was an excellent add to the band. I find the other 2 a bit weaker. ------------- Ian Host of the Post-Avant Jazzcore Happy Hour on Progrock.com https://podcasts.progrock.com/post-avant-jazzcore-happy-hour/ |
Posted By: I prophesy disaster
Date Posted: April 30 2021 at 08:42
|
Beat was the second King Crimson album I got after In the Court of the Crimson King. I got Beat shortly after it was released because I heard "Heartbeat" on the radio, which I liked in spite of its somewhat '80s pop sound. Two tracks that definitely stand out for me are "Neurotica" and "Sartori in Tangier". Discipline is a fairly recent addition to my collection. I haven't listened to it much, so I can't say too much about it, though I do like "Elephant Talk", which has a very Talking Heads sound to me. ------------- No, I know how to behave in the restaurant now, I don't tear at the meat with my hands. If I've become a man of the world somehow, that's not necessarily to say I'm a worldly man. |
Posted By: progaardvark
Date Posted: April 30 2021 at 09:10
|
I enjoy all three albums from this era, with Discipline being my favorite. ------------- ---------- i'm shopping for a new oil-cured sinus bag that's a happy bag of lettuce this car smells like cartilage nothing beats a good video about fractions |
Posted By: dr wu23
Date Posted: April 30 2021 at 09:15
|
Also not my favorite KC period (not a fan of Belew's voice)...but Discipline is a good one; Beat and Three Of A Perfect Pair could have been combined with the best tracks to make a single lp. ------------- One does nothing yet nothing is left undone. Haquin |
Posted By: Artik
Date Posted: April 30 2021 at 09:36
| For me they were like the only prog "old guard" who came victorius of the 80s trial. Yes and Genesis (and many more) chose disgusting pop as a means of preservation, but KC showed that you don't have to sell out to remain valid and there is always a good time to be creative. Their colours trilogy was and remains a strong statement. Love them for this. |
Posted By: AFlowerKingCrimson
Date Posted: April 30 2021 at 10:58
Ouch. I think there's only one or two somewhat weak tracks on Beat. TOOAPP doesn't have any imo except for maybe nuages(I never really cared for that one much).
|
Posted By: Awesoreno
Date Posted: April 30 2021 at 21:20
|
And who's that babbler conversing with a magazine stand? Evidently he's getting a good reply... |
Posted By: Dellinger
Date Posted: May 01 2021 at 21:19
| Though I do like many songs from this era, I do like the 70's albums more. Also, I don't actually have any of their 80's studio albums, but I do have a pair of live albums from this era, including all the songs from Discipline within the first of them... but still, for what I have heard, the best versions of the best songs from this 80's albums are the ones played in the 90's by the double trio line-up, so, say, with Vroom Vroom I have just about everything I could want from the 80's songs, as well as from the Thrack album (well, between Vroom Vroom and The Collectable King Crimson vol 3). |
Posted By: Un Amico
Date Posted: May 04 2021 at 16:27
| They are ok albums for the period. Fripp took sone guitar lessons from Robin Trower, stole his song 'Bluebird' and made it the template for all future KC ballads. I was not impressed with that as I worship Bob Fripp. Oh well. |
Posted By: verslibre
Date Posted: May 04 2021 at 16:33
I love 'em. Discipline is a perfect album, not a note or flam or bend out of place. Beat is the sequel, and, needless to say, essential. Three of a Perfect Pair is likewise essential: I love "Sleepless," "Industry" and "Nuages." This shocks some people, but I hold the '80s iteration of King Crimson on par with the albums with Wetton! Belew and Levin were clearly what Bob and Bill needed to get the cart rolling again. ------------- https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_ipg=50&_sop=1&_rdc=1&_ssn=musicosm" rel="nofollow - eBay |
Posted By: verslibre
Date Posted: May 04 2021 at 16:34
!!!!  ------------- https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_ipg=50&_sop=1&_rdc=1&_ssn=musicosm" rel="nofollow - eBay |
Posted By: uduwudu
Date Posted: May 06 2021 at 06:00
|
Discipline is a game changing album. They'd established a new frame and spent a couple of records redeveloping the ideas and extending some. New song ideas refreshed Crimson. And introduced, me anyway, to the Chapman Stick. Beautiful, energetic, neurotic, controlled chaotic... Outstanding. And as for the live stuff....
|
Posted By: Rednight
Date Posted: May 10 2021 at 12:10
------------- "It just has none of the qualities of your work that I find interesting. Abandon [?] it." - Eno |
Posted By: Manuel
Date Posted: May 10 2021 at 12:22
I've always considered these three albums this way, as a collective work, very closed related, and very inventive (for the time), with a new musical direction from the previous era. Not the best, but quite good and interesting, certainly worth listening.
|
Posted By: BrufordFreak
Date Posted: May 10 2021 at 17:27
|
Like others here, the three albums were important and essential to my prog-ness in the glam-techno-crazed 80s. Adrian Belew is a genius but, in my opinion, a little too upbeat and high energy for me and the Crimson style. There is so much on Discipline that is Earth-shatteringly amazing, I feel personally slighted when I read people's reviews/opinions that seem to miss it's innovations. I've even tried to make a case that the extraordinary song "Discipline" should be the theme song for the whole Math Rock thing--anybody who's seen it performed live can attest to the high art concentration that the four individual's performing it had to sustain to pull it off. "Thela Hun Jingeet" is a performance art masterpiece--should be credited with starting the whole podcast thing. "Matte Kudasai" is a genius lovesong fusing Japanese sounds with Western perspective. "The Sheltering Sky" is a master class in spatial reverence. "Elephant Talk" is pure fun--to hear, sing along with, dance to. It's an amazing intro to the sonic genius of Belew's guitar playing. "Frame By Frame" is so shocking for each of its four instrumentalists' displays that you can't help but be thrown off balance--until Adrian and the b vox bring it together. And that ChapmanStick! And last, but not least, the crazed and silly (Belew) but musically (Bruford) brash (Bruford) and daring (Bruford) threads are pure entertainment. The other two albums are kind of 2.0 and 2.1 versions of Discipline though each have super high points. ------------- Drew Fisher https://progisaliveandwell.blogspot.com/ |
Posted By: projeKct
Date Posted: May 10 2021 at 18:10
| Hmmmm... Favorite tracks from this period? Well, ALL OF THEM! Really! Well, I'm not a big fan of "Requiem", but it works anyway. These albums are so creative! So unique! Do you know anything like that elsewhere? |
Posted By: AFlowerKingCrimson
Date Posted: May 10 2021 at 22:00
What now?
 |
Posted By: cstack3
Date Posted: May 11 2021 at 00:17
|
Fripp has always thrived on experimentation, and the "Discipline" period continued that trend. "Discipline" was inspired by Bob's period of study of Blavatsky, Bennett and Gurdjieff. His "Guitar Craft" project was based very much on personal and community discipline - I was bassist for one of his earliest Guitar Craft graduates, Alonzo "Lon" Jones of Tulsa, OK. There was a lot going on with that music & its presentation this is not apparent unless you knew the man's history. In 1974, Robert Fripp—leader of the progressive rock group King Crimson—had a spiritual experience in which “the top of [his] head blew off.” He became a student of J. G. Bennett, himself a former student of G. I. Gurdjieff, at Sherborne House in Gloucestershire, and remains a member of the Bennett Foundation to this day. When Fripp returned to the music industry, it was with an approach that favored disciplined and geometric compositions over the jagged improvisation of the earlier period. This article explores the influence of Gurdjieff and Bennett’s teaching upon Fripp and his work, and his apparent attempts to realize the former’s idea of “objective art” through his music. I pay particular attention to the development of Guitar Craft, in which Fripp applies Gurdjieff’s techniques through the teaching of the guitar. I argue that Fripp’s teaching is a little examined scion of the Gurdjieff lineage, and a case study of discrete cultural production. https://www.academia.edu/36160413/Tuning_Ourselves_Fripp_Bennett_Gurdjieff" rel="nofollow - https://www.academia.edu/36160413/Tuning_Ourselves_Fripp_Bennett_Gurdjieff
------------- I am not a Robot, I'm a FREE MAN!! |
Posted By: sevenfour
Date Posted: June 15 2021 at 08:29
| It was a big deal, Crimson back together with new music. We saw this band six times. |
Posted By: AFlowerKingCrimson
Date Posted: June 15 2021 at 11:18
| Wow, I never knew "absent lovers" was the name of a song (in this case instrumental so technically not really a song). I just listened to it on youtube and it sounds really good. Beat would have been a better album if this was on there instead of "two hands" or "waiting man." |
Posted By: Crane
Date Posted: June 15 2021 at 11:28
Absolutely fascinating, thanks for sharing! ------------- “Art is the recognition of the universal presence of God.” —Ernest Hello |
Posted By: cstack3
Date Posted: June 16 2021 at 08:19
Welcome to PA, we look forward to your wondrous stories!! I also saw the band a few times (I think four), missing the "Beat" tour due to a torrential rain that flooded out the outdoor venue, Poplar Creek, where they were performing. Sad! I did see Discipline, 3 of a Perfect Pair, Thrak and one other that escapes me. It wasn't traditional Crimson music exactly, but very high-energy and contemporary. Fripp and Belew were pioneers with the use of the Roland guitar synth technology, so they did some amazing things. Levin also brought the Chapman Stick front and center to rock, and Bruf held it down on the drum! Damn fine times! ------------- I am not a Robot, I'm a FREE MAN!! |
Posted By: SteveG
Date Posted: June 16 2021 at 09:50
|
I never got into the 80s era KC, but the musicianship was certainly top notch and they were much better live, imho. ------------- This message was brought to you by a proud supporter of the Deep State. |
Posted By: Grubert
Date Posted: June 21 2021 at 11:24
|
Discipline is a Crimson masterpiece |
Posted By: TheLionOfPrague
Date Posted: June 22 2021 at 18:18
|
Discipline is very good. Not entirely sold on TOAPP and Beat, though they're alright. ------------- I shook my head and smiled a whisper knowing all about the place |
Posted By: luismausanchez
Date Posted: June 26 2021 at 09:58
|
Discipline is undoubtedly King Crimson's best 80's album. That album hooked immediately, but it took me a while to appreciate TOAPP and Beat.
|
Posted By: johnobvious
Date Posted: September 21 2022 at 18:35
|
I know this thread is pretty much dead but Marc Maron just did a great podcast with Belew. I never realized that Fripp hired AB and told him he had to write all the songs and lyrics and do the arrangements, while Fripp played overlord. Well, I figured the last part. http://www.wtfpod.com" rel="nofollow - www.wtfpod.com ------------- Biggles was in rehab last Saturday |
Posted By: projeKct
Date Posted: September 21 2022 at 20:53
|
^ Well, thanks for sharing. Very interesting interview. http://www.wtfpod.com/podcast/episode-1367-adrian-belew" rel="nofollow - http://www.wtfpod.com/podcast/episode-1367-adrian-belew The KC segment starts around 57:00.
|
Posted By: MrMHead
Date Posted: September 26 2022 at 18:32
|
I was actually turned on to "In the Court" about a year before Discipline. So I was all hot and ready for the new evolution after digging through the back catalog. They didn't disappoint. ------------- No Civilization here. Tried it on but it would not fit. Seems only a thin veneer. A little rubbing and it comes off quick. - The Bears |