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Category: Progressive Music Lounges
Forum Name: Top 10s and lists
Forum Description: List all your favourites here
URL: http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=125631 Printed Date: March 12 2025 at 15:26 Software Version: Web Wiz Forums 11.01 - http://www.webwizforums.com
Topic: Your Reviews & Ratings TablesPosted By: Psychedelic Paul
Subject: Your Reviews & Ratings Tables
Date Posted: February 28 2021 at 06:32
I thought it'd be interesting to see what everyone's Reviews & Ratings table looks like so we can compare notes. Here's my table with Neo Prog rated surprisingly highest at the moment at 4.06, although that's probably because I've only rated 18 albums by IQ so far.
http://www.progarchives.com/Collaborators.asp?id=69578&genreId=28&showall=true#reviews" rel="nofollow - Rock Progressivo Italiano
2
4.00
Posted By: moshkito
Date Posted: March 01 2021 at 08:53
Psychedelic Paul wrote:
I thought it'd be interesting to see what everyone's Reviews & Ratings table looks like so we can compare notes. Here's my table with Neo Prog rated surprisingly highest at the moment at 4.06, although that's probably because I've only rated 18 albums by IQ so far.
...
Hi,
I would take these more seriously if we "weighted" the number of reviews ... like a proportional number of reviews ... given that ProgXYZ only has 4 reviews and Genesis has 104, and Yes has 121 ... (numbers just made up!)
That sort of populism, is tough on databases, which only show "numbers" and not a relative, or relational understanding of the numbers, and this is the hardest part of the "internet" days ... that we have become addicted to the "answers" that these numbers give us, and in the end they are not real ... they do not reflect the reality. It's like Soc 101 at the University ... the book and its first lesson and chapter is the RULE and the SOCIETY ... and you are not, regardless of how you feel! You're not one of the "numbers" ... and it distorts the reality completely and this is one of the worst side of many studies like Psychology, Sociology, and many Literature places ... where they have setup an "ideal" and everything has to conform to that ideal ... and the worst of them all is the English Department talking about Shakespeare like it was some kind of poetry and theater for the rich, when 80% of its audience were regular street folks getting drunk and fighting among the audience and laughing and crying at some stage antics ... like most street folks would give a darn about poetry, when all you knew was limericks and ribald jokes ... and you come to see a "tragic play"? .... doesn't compute with the audience!
I wish many of these "reviews" were looked at, and instead of looking at the numbers of them you probably would ditch some 30 to 40% of them, and the numbers would then, likely, show a better relationship between them.
The thing that bothers me is that we continue with this "consumerism" idea in terms of everything we talk about ... when the history of the arts, has been totally and completely against the grain ... it's almost that we're trying to make sure that what we believe has to live forever, and for crying out loud ... things change every day, and tomorrow what you believe, was childish at best!
We have to get past the numbers to find some meaningful detail.
An example that is even more ridiculous ... the number of deaths in one state against the other ... in one state with 5 million folks there were X number of deaths, and in the state with the 1 million folks there was Y number of deaths ... and the media headlines says that the sate with 5 million folks has an inordinate number of deaths and is a concern for the general populace ... when the percentage relation from the deaths to the populace is ... probably the same ... but "more deaths" makes it sound more important news ... and that only says, something about the intelligence and ability to disperse news by many companies out there ... and we continue ... like ... so what ... and there is no Walter Cronkite that was bigger than CBS or any news to show us, how wrong we can be, and how much we ignore the reality of it all ...
The question is ... what can we do about it ... continue saying things that are really not relationally correct, or ignore it ... because the numbers are sacred ... ohhh Mr. Jesus would have loved that, I'm sure!
------------- Music is not just for listening ... it is for LIVING ... you got to feel it to know what's it about! Not being told! www.pedrosena.com
Posted By: Nogbad_The_Bad
Date Posted: March 01 2021 at 08:56
Posted By: bartymj
Date Posted: March 02 2021 at 01:11
I've definitely been quantity over quality, most of this is ratings only - have been using PA to broaden my horizons beyong the obvious prog giants of yesteryear (having been born in the bleak prog void of the early 90s). I suppose the biggest takeaway from this is a discovery of Zeuhl...
http://www.progarchives.com/Collaborators.asp?id=72001&genreId=29&showall=true#reviews" rel="nofollow - Various Genres
2
2.00
Posted By: Psychedelic Paul
Date Posted: March 02 2021 at 01:30
^ It must have been quite a challenge listening to 33 Tech/Extreme Prog Metal albums all the way through, considering they have a combined low rating of 1.94.
Posted By: bartymj
Date Posted: March 02 2021 at 03:22
I will admit there is a lot of track skipping when the death growls start! But the way PA works the category contains the later work of Opeth which is very very good, and other bands like Leprous and Moonsorrow which mix the extreme style with more symphonic elements to create something very interesting. I'm all for moving out of my comfort zone to find a hidden gem! That 1.92 is probably a weird blend of 1 star and 4 stars with little in between...
Posted By: Psychedelic Paul
Date Posted: March 02 2021 at 03:57
bartymj wrote:
I will admit there is a lot of track skipping when the death growls start! But the way PA works the category contains the later work of Opeth which is very very good, and other bands like Leprous and Moonsorrow which mix the extreme style with more symphonic elements to create something very interesting. I'm all for moving out of my comfort zone to find a hidden gem! That 1.92 is probably a weird blend of 1 star and 4 stars with little in between...
I prefer to stay in my comfort zone, so Tech/Extreme Prog Metal is unlikely to ever make an appearance in my Reviews/Ratings table. I don't mind death growls in Symphonic Metal though.
Posted By: moshkito
Date Posted: March 02 2021 at 07:22
bartymj wrote:
I've definitely been quantity over quality, most of this is ratings only - have been using PA to broaden my horizons beyong the obvious prog giants of yesteryear (having been born in the bleak prog void of the early 90s). I suppose the biggest takeaway from this is a discovery of Zeuhl...
...
Hi,
I do not "believe" that there was a "bleak prog void" at any time and place. There are way too many bands around the world, and all we think of is the small areas that we know, sometimes, and think they are the owners and definers of the art form only in the way that we want them. The same music with aborigine instruments would get laughed at and ignored by most of us real quick, not to mention that it would sound out of key (western style of course!), and badly put together! But it can't be said that the effort was not there for that particular style!
Sometimes I think that too much music is influenced by the current scene too much, and there is a lot of stuff that goes into it and the 90's, just like any other era had just as many good/great things. The only issue is that we don't listen to those, and then go back to the top 5 and discussing the same album again, and our favorite song.
However, you will find some artists (quoting Robin Williamson) that did not feel that the MEDIA had as great an influence as we think on most poets and artists, however, it maybe like the art itself is what defined the media words AFTER the fact ... which says a lot about artists and how valuable and important I think they are. I am not sure that the numbers here reveal a whole lot about the music at all ... which is sad for me ... there is a lot of great stuff out there not being heard.
Zheul had been around in France for a long time, and in many forms almost to the point that many folks like to say that a large amount of it is actually better than the original, which of course is possible and likely ... what child doesn't get bored with their parents at times and wants to do things differently? SPECIALLY when they had been there at the start, with likely a hand in making the original!
But there are some strange numbers ... this latest set shows 9 ratings, and that is the opening page of "Reviews and Ratings of KRAUTROCK" and right above it says that there were 731 ratings/reviews total. It actually is not a "bad" listing, but a very general set that does not really come close to the term, or its definition. CAN's Future Days, almost does not fit the term, when compared to Tago Mago or Ege Bamyasi, that are very clean and improvised freely. Ash Ra Tempel's first album is more of an ambient album than where it is rated. Popol Vuh, would not fit as "krautrock" since it was not any kind of rock, until later! I'm OK with the 3 AD2 selections with the obvious fact that a lot of the first album was not exactly an improvisation and have the incredible impact that YETI did, or DANCE OF THE LEMMINGS.
------------- Music is not just for listening ... it is for LIVING ... you got to feel it to know what's it about! Not being told! www.pedrosena.com
Posted By: Nogbad_The_Bad
Date Posted: March 02 2021 at 07:57
Lot's of good avant in the 90's not a bad decade at all.
------------- Ian
Host of the Post-Avant Jazzcore Happy Hour on Progrock.com
It would be interesting to know how many of my reviews are first reviews for the release in question. I believe more than every fourth (though having reviewed a lot of singles helps that). The average amount of reviews preceding mine is probably very low anyway; I tend to avoid heavily reviewed albums -- with a small bunch of exceptions for some classic albums I love.
... Not that this would necessarily be so important, but it reflects my ideals of worthy reviewing.
Posted By: nick_h_nz
Date Posted: March 02 2021 at 08:56
Nogbad_The_Bad wrote:
Lot's of good avant in the 90's not a bad decade at all.
From the 1960s on, there’s no decade I don’t love a lot of music from. But the ‘80s is definitely a thin one for me in terms of prog - or, at least music that is recognised as prog. It’s interesting to see over the years, that a lot of the ‘80s bands are being re-evaluated, and finding an audience with prog listeners that they likely didn’t enjoy at the time. I grew up in the ‘80s, so there’s so much music from that decade I love, but very little of it would be found in PA.....
[EDIT] Just in case my point wasn’t made clearly, because I sort of took off on a tangent, I thought the ‘90s rocked. 🤘🏻
------------- https://tinyurl.com/nickhnz-tpa" rel="nofollow - Reviewer for The Progressive Aspect
Posted By: dougmcauliffe
Date Posted: March 02 2021 at 09:05
The early 90s kicks ass in my opinion, especially if you're a prog metal/tech death guy like me. Also we got a new Camel record which is always welcome around here!
------------- The sun has left the sky... ...Now you can close your eyes
Posted By: Nogbad_The_Bad
Date Posted: March 02 2021 at 09:14
Oh I agree, I just consider the 90's a 'bleak prog void'. For me personally I have less from the 80's than the 90's but both decades are significantly lower than 70's, 00's & '10's
10's - 724
00's - 393
90's - 192
80's - 167
70's - 411
------------- Ian
Host of the Post-Avant Jazzcore Happy Hour on Progrock.com
Posted By: bartymj
Date Posted: March 02 2021 at 10:10
moshkito wrote:
bartymj wrote:
I've definitely been quantity over quality, most of this is ratings only - have been using PA to broaden my horizons beyong the obvious prog giants of yesteryear (having been born in the bleak prog void of the early 90s). I suppose the biggest takeaway from this is a discovery of Zeuhl...
...
Hi,
I do not "believe" that there was a "bleak prog void" at any time and place. There are way too many bands around the world, and all we think of is the small areas that we know, sometimes, and think they are the owners and definers of the art form only in the way that we want them. The same music with aborigine instruments would get laughed at and ignored by most of us real quick, not to mention that it would sound out of key (western style of course!), and badly put together! But it can't be said that the effort was not there for that particular style!
Sometimes I think that too much music is influenced by the current scene too much, and there is a lot of stuff that goes into it and the 90's, just like any other era had just as many good/great things. The only issue is that we don't listen to those, and then go back to the top 5 and discussing the same album again, and our favorite song.
However, you will find some artists (quoting Robin Williamson) that did not feel that the MEDIA had as great an influence as we think on most poets and artists, however, it maybe like the art itself is what defined the media words AFTER the fact ... which says a lot about artists and how valuable and important I think they are. I am not sure that the numbers here reveal a whole lot about the music at all ... which is sad for me ... there is a lot of great stuff out there not being heard.
Zheul had been around in France for a long time, and in many forms almost to the point that many folks like to say that a large amount of it is actually better than the original, which of course is possible and likely ... what child doesn't get bored with their parents at times and wants to do things differently? SPECIALLY when they had been there at the start, with likely a hand in making the original!
But there are some strange numbers ... this latest set shows 9 ratings, and that is the opening page of "Reviews and Ratings of KRAUTROCK" and right above it says that there were 731 ratings/reviews total. It actually is not a "bad" listing, but a very general set that does not really come close to the term, or its definition. CAN's Future Days, almost does not fit the term, when compared to Tago Mago or Ege Bamyasi, that are very clean and improvised freely. Ash Ra Tempel's first album is more of an ambient album than where it is rated. Popol Vuh, would not fit as "krautrock" since it was not any kind of rock, until later! I'm OK with the 3 AD2 selections with the obvious fact that a lot of the first album was not exactly an improvisation and have the incredible impact that YETI did, or DANCE OF THE LEMMINGS.
Whoa, easy now... I was just being silly. Looks like I accidentally started an argument.
As for the Krautrock paragraph... they just happen to be albums I've listened to, PA files them under Krautrock. I've not chosen those 9 and decided that means I don't like Krautrock, don't worry...
Posted By: A Crimson Mellotron
Date Posted: March 03 2021 at 00:08
My previous profile's table would have been perfect for this (I had more than 1000 ratings with several reviews) but this profile's been gone for half a year now. The table of my current one is unworthy, with some +/-40 reviews.
Posted By: iluvmarillion
Date Posted: March 03 2021 at 22:55
Wrote a few reviews during COVID, but it doesn't really reveal any genre preferences or preferable periods of time because they're too few reviews. It was just whatever took my fancy to write at the time.
You can always repost your table later with more album ratings, just like I did yesterday after rating all of Supertramp's albums.
Fully two-fifths of my Symphonic Prog ratings/reviews are all for Rick Wakeman's albums: 107 out of a total of 283 albums.
Well, I'd rather review 5-10 albums per year than rate 100 weekly, but maybe I should rethink my tactics.
I think reviewing 5-10 a year and rating 10 a week is where I'm at. I probably give 10 albums new to me a good listen every week. Knowing them well enough to write a review is a lot more effort.
------------- Ian
Host of the Post-Avant Jazzcore Happy Hour on Progrock.com
Posted By: moshkito
Date Posted: March 04 2021 at 08:09
Nogbad_The_Bad wrote:
...
I think reviewing 5-10 a year and rating 10 a week is where I'm at. I probably give 10 albums new to me a good listen every week. Knowing them well enough to write a review is a lot more effort.
Hi,
I wish I had the desire to write more reviews ... but I probably do about 5 new things per week, and likely 9 or 10 albums all told ... for example, this week it has been a band from Finland, that has taken 3 listens already ... the album is that good! A really fine album does that for me ... multiple listens ... as I can not be dispassionate about something that is so nice! Even movies do that for me ... I watched KIN twice a year ago as it was so well done!
Writing the reviews is something I stopped doing here because of the multiplicity of it all ... I wanted to do one band, but seeing singles listed (no reviews needed since the material was on an album!!!!!), and then the re-releases of the same thing, and in one case an illegal copy whose quality is a serious issue ... but it does not matter? It's like reviewing THE DOORS big single hit, and then also review the real version on the album ... the only thing the single needs is how fudged up AM radio was at that time to cut the song up ... for that matter PF's Money being not only cut up by a third, and then censored! And we continue to ignore the great insults to a lot of our music ... and we need to put that nail in the coffin to stop it!
I don't want to do "singles" and re-releases, even if they have new material in it, unless it is so drastically different as to require a review.
I think I have only uploaded a handful of reviews ... the principle of the whole thing is totally wrong and I guess I am a person to whom values and principles are important, and in this case, I find them abusive to the artist ... someone rating a band for a single ... it's too much for me, when the rest of their music is shmuck or the album pales in comparison!
This week's listening, for example: (Note: All of these were played on Space Pirate Radio this past week!)
Mogwai (New)
Menzman & Friends (new)
Herd of Instinct (New)
Ozric Tentacles (new)
Ian Carr's Nucleus (older -- nice!)
Thaneco
Kairon;IRSE!
Shinpal
Michael Bruckner & Detlev Everling
Syndromeda
Now you know why I do not have time for "singles" and record company rip-off and re-releases! And I can't help keep saying to PA that we need to respect the artist a little more!
Would like, ALSO, to see a bigger and more detailed separation between REVIEWS, and RATINGS. Since many folks are rating based on 3 minute listens and not the album, likely more times than we care to admit! I simply can't do that. I usually know the album fairly well when I review it!
------------- Music is not just for listening ... it is for LIVING ... you got to feel it to know what's it about! Not being told! www.pedrosena.com
Posted By: omphaloskepsis
Date Posted: March 04 2021 at 08:37
Posted By: BrufordFreak
Date Posted: March 05 2021 at 05:59
Interesting to see that my averages are still higher than most despite a recent renovation of my ratings philosophy, but then, I do tend to favor writing & posting reviews of albums I want to promote. Also nice to see my two favorite subs, Zeuhl and Prog Folk, making good showings.
Posted By: Psychedelic Paul
Date Posted: March 05 2021 at 06:07
^ My ratings/reviews table looks relatively sparse compared to your impressive list, with three times as many albums and almost twice as many genres too.
Posted By: Psychedelic Paul
Date Posted: March 05 2021 at 06:10
http://www.progarchives.com/Collaborators.asp?id=37210&genreId=29&showall=true#reviews" rel="nofollow - Various Genres
8
2.63
22
http://www.progarchives.com/Collaborators.asp?id=37210&genreId=35&showall=true#reviews" rel="nofollow - Indo-Prog/Raga Rock
1
3.00
No 4.00+ averages on your board, I like that.
On the other hand it means he's rated 46 prog electronic albums and on average they're only good for collectors.
Posted By: zwordser
Date Posted: March 05 2021 at 11:10
It was a few years ago that I last went through and rated albums, so this is very incomplete. I also don't think I write very good reviews, so I have but few, but I finally decided to review Cats on the Roof last month (because I like their albums, and was surprised to see that they had no ratings--let alone reviews).
Anyway, needs updating badly, but I did (and still do) hold to the idea of using 5 and 1 star ratings sparingly:
Posted By: moshkito
Date Posted: March 06 2021 at 09:27
zwordser wrote:
It was a few years ago that I last went through and rated albums, so this is very incomplete.
...
Anyway, needs updating badly, but I did (and still do) hold to the idea of using 5 and 1 star ratings sparingly:
...
Hi,
I kinda feel too lazy to bother checking ... for the most part the only albums I have EVER reviewed were the ones that were tops in my book ... even though I joke about many here, I really do not wish to write a review for a "sub" this or that album that I decided I did not like ... we need to PROMOTE progressive music and prog, not DEMOTE it with a bad review, so in this case not saying anything is better for me.
There are, in all likelihood, at least 300 to 400 albums that I would want to review, and they all would get at least a 4, and a rating of 4 or above ... but to me the principle is weird and strange and I do not want to think like everyone else who has left behind the rest of the music so they could vote for their favorite with a 5.
------------- Music is not just for listening ... it is for LIVING ... you got to feel it to know what's it about! Not being told! www.pedrosena.com
Posted By: iluvmarillion
Date Posted: March 07 2021 at 22:36
You can always repost your table later with more album ratings, just like I did yesterday after rating all of Supertramp's albums.
Fully two-fifths of my Symphonic Prog ratings/reviews are all for Rick Wakeman's albums: 107 out of a total of 283 albums.
Well, I'd rather review 5-10 albums per year than rate 100 weekly, but maybe I should rethink my tactics.
I think reviewing 5-10 a year and rating 10 a week is where I'm at. I probably give 10 albums new to me a good listen every week. Knowing them well enough to write a review is a lot more effort.
Everybody is different but in my case I couldn't write a review unless I listened to an album at least about five times. Since I've got albums that go back up to 10 years that I've maybe played about 2-3 times it's not possible for me to write a review I would be confident in. The other point is I change my mind all the time so any rating only reflects those thoughts and comments I had at the time I wrote the review.
Posted By: bartymj
Date Posted: March 08 2021 at 02:07
chopper wrote:
thief wrote:
No 4.00+ averages on your board, I like that.
On the other hand it means he's rated 46 prog electronic albums and on average they're only good for collectors.
I always get confused when people complain about this sort of thing. If someone's taken the time to listen to 46 electronic albums then they're entitled to their own opinion on how good they are. Clearly the style isn't for them, and that's fair enough. If everyone only did ratings for things within their comfort zone then the entire website would be full of 4 and 5 star albums and the whole system would be pointless.
Psychedelic Paul wrote:
