"Big 6" Major Omissions! Gentle Giant vs. Camel
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Topic: "Big 6" Major Omissions! Gentle Giant vs. Camel
Posted By: Sacro_Porgo
Subject: "Big 6" Major Omissions! Gentle Giant vs. Camel
Date Posted: June 16 2020 at 00:01
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Two bands that seem unrightfully forgotten about when talking about the biggest and best of the biggest and best prog bands, especially the "big 6": Floyd, ELP, KC, Genesis, Yes, and Tull. This is less of something I've noticed on this website and more something that I've seen around the internet broadly when talking about prog. I'm sure everyone has their own list of 6 more bands deserving to be mentioned in the same breath as those, but these two seem to me the most obvious exclusions, with perhaps VDGG and Renaissance hot on their heels. But enough of my pointless explaining! Vote for your favorite (if you so desire...)! ------------- Porg for short. My love of music doesn't end with prog! Feel free to discuss all sorts of music with me. Odds are I'll give it a chance if I haven't already! :) |
Replies:
Posted By: iluvmarillion
Date Posted: June 16 2020 at 00:32
| I love both bands. Can we have them both in? |
Posted By: Sacro_Porgo
Date Posted: June 16 2020 at 00:40
Big 8! :) ------------- Porg for short. My love of music doesn't end with prog! Feel free to discuss all sorts of music with me. Odds are I'll give it a chance if I haven't already! :) |
iluvmarillion wrote:Posted By: Rick1
Date Posted: June 16 2020 at 00:41
| Both bands got nowhere near the Big 6 in terms of chart activity: Gentle Giant slightly more so in the States; Camel more so in UK and Europe. Camel had two top 20 albums in Moon Madness and Rain Dances (scraping in at number 20). |
Posted By: Sacro_Porgo
Date Posted: June 16 2020 at 00:44
It always amazes me that Jethro Tull had much commercial success. Like, with the other 5 I can hear it, but with Tull I've always just listened and thought, "this is great, but how in heck did they sell this?" lol.
------------- Porg for short. My love of music doesn't end with prog! Feel free to discuss all sorts of music with me. Odds are I'll give it a chance if I haven't already! :) |
Posted By: Man With Hat
Date Posted: June 16 2020 at 00:46
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GG ------------- Dig me...But don't...Bury me I'm running still, I shall until, one day, I hope that I'll arrive Warning: Listening to jazz excessively can cause a laxative effect. |
Posted By: Rick1
Date Posted: June 16 2020 at 01:08
I know it's a well worn debate but I see Tull more as a peer to Led Zeppelin. They were successful in the States very early on and also had some success with singles which, like it or not, raises a band's profile and marketability. Other bands have been reappraised over the years so while they hold high esteem among prog fans they never got wider acceptance - this is what the big 6 managed to do. |
Posted By: Sacro_Porgo
Date Posted: June 16 2020 at 01:17
I don't hold their commercial success against them at all. Just as a modern classic rock listener, I've never really heard Tull on the radio, and I've heard very few Tull songs that I could imagine hearing on the radio. Meanwhile, Zep gets played inside, out, upside-down, and backwards on every station from here to the moon. ------------- Porg for short. My love of music doesn't end with prog! Feel free to discuss all sorts of music with me. Odds are I'll give it a chance if I haven't already! :) |
Posted By: Frenetic Zetetic
Date Posted: June 16 2020 at 01:59
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Gentle Giant all the way. The most technically impressive prog rock band of all time, regardless of the infamous "Yeah, well, it doesn't have to be busy/technical to be good..." argument. Humanity still isn't ready for GG! ------------- "I am so prog, I listen to concept albums on shuffle." -KMac2021 |
Posted By: octopus-4
Date Posted: June 16 2020 at 03:06
I'm infor big 8 plus Renaissance up to Novella ------------- I stand with Roger Waters, I stand with Joan Baez, I stand with Victor Jara, I stand with Woody Guthrie. Music is revolution |
Posted By: Lewian
Date Posted: June 16 2020 at 03:08
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I can totally see why the two are not in the "big 6". I love Camel, but in terms of innovation and adventure they lag clearly behind. I respect GG and like some of their stuff, they have their own unique way of doing things and are surely top competent and original musicians and composers, but in terms of influence and breadth, they aren't anywhere near the big 6. By the way I'd pick VDGG over both of these, but even they deservedly didn't make the cut. |
Posted By: Cristi
Date Posted: June 16 2020 at 04:20
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overall, Camel please make some album polls with these two, things would be more interesting, depending on albums, GG might get the vote sometimes.
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Posted By: Mormegil
Date Posted: June 16 2020 at 05:19
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Camel. Try as I might, I can't get into GG. ------------- Welcome to the middle of the film. |
Posted By: Meltdowner
Date Posted: June 16 2020 at 05:30
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I would replace Tull and ELP with both of them. |
Posted By: Gentle and Giant
Date Posted: June 16 2020 at 05:43
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Tough one this, but I'm pushed slightly more to GG. ------------- Oh, for the wings of any bird, other than a battery hen |
Posted By: dougmcauliffe
Date Posted: June 16 2020 at 07:13
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These are probably my two favorite bands of all time with Opeth and Genesis likely in the mix. However, Camel is my favorite band of all time. ------------- The sun has left the sky... ...Now you can close your eyes |
Posted By: someone_else
Date Posted: June 16 2020 at 07:16
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GG just over Camel. ------------- 
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Posted By: moshkito
Date Posted: June 16 2020 at 07:21
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Hi, I would rather have voted for Amon Duul 2 or CAN! ------------- Music is not just for listening ... it is for LIVING ... you got to feel it to know what's it about! Not being told! www.pedrosena.com |
Posted By: VianaProghead
Date Posted: June 16 2020 at 07:54
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I love Camel, but definitely Gentle Giant.
------------- "PROG IS MY FERRARI". Jem Godfrey (Frost*) |
Posted By: miamiscot
Date Posted: June 16 2020 at 08:31
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For me it was always the Big 6 plus 3: Yes Genesis Pink Floyd ELP Jethro Tull King Crimson ________________ Rush Kansas Gentle Giant ------------- The Prog Corner |
Posted By: progaardvark
Date Posted: June 16 2020 at 08:35
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Gentle Giant for me. I would probably also pick VDGG and Renaissance ahead of Camel. ------------- ---------- i'm shopping for a new oil-cured sinus bag that's a happy bag of lettuce this car smells like cartilage nothing beats a good video about fractions |
Posted By: Grumpyprogfan
Date Posted: June 16 2020 at 10:03
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Giant was innovative and electrifying. All members played multiple instruments. Camel was predictable and calm. Giant should be a "big 6" band. Axe ELP or KC. |
Posted By: verslibre
Date Posted: June 16 2020 at 10:51
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Camel. ------------- https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_ipg=50&_sop=1&_rdc=1&_ssn=musicosm" rel="nofollow - eBay |
Posted By: verslibre
Date Posted: June 16 2020 at 10:52
Nope. Not gonna happen!  ------------- https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_ipg=50&_sop=1&_rdc=1&_ssn=musicosm" rel="nofollow - eBay |
Posted By: AFlowerKingCrimson
Date Posted: June 16 2020 at 10:52
| What about Van der Graaf Generator? I think they get left out of the conversation more than anyone and deserve to be mentioned in the same breath as Camel and GG. |
Posted By: Hercules
Date Posted: June 16 2020 at 14:52
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Camel, though I love most GG. Camel are the best band in history for their longevity and the quality of their output. Only IQ come close. They didn't try to experiment as much as GG, but they had a chemistry as a band that no-one else can match. Plus, they are THE masters of melody and Andy Latimer has recorded more wonderful guitar solos than anyone else. Neither can be Big 6 as they just didn't sell enough albums, but I'd rate both above any of those in the Big 6. ------------- A TVR is not a car. It's a way of life. |
Posted By: richardh
Date Posted: June 16 2020 at 14:57
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Outside of the top six: VDGG Gentle Giant PFM Kansas Camel |
Posted By: Tapfret
Date Posted: June 16 2020 at 15:23
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The Big 6 are the Big 6 because they are popular. Period. I like many Gentle Giant records more than most of the Big 6, but it doesn't make them a "major omission" unless thousands of people suddenly traded their love of the Big 6 for Gentle Giant. If it hasn't happened thus far, its not going to. ------------- https://www.last.fm/user/Tapfret" rel="nofollow">  https://bandcamp.com/tapfret" rel="nofollow - Bandcamp |
Posted By: Squonk19
Date Posted: June 16 2020 at 16:03
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Really like Gentle Giant (especially in recent years), but I love Camel! ------------- “Living in their pools, they soon forget about the sea.” |
Posted By: Squonk19
Date Posted: June 16 2020 at 16:06
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Multiple vote possible? Be careful..... ------------- “Living in their pools, they soon forget about the sea.” |
Posted By: iluvmarillion
Date Posted: June 16 2020 at 21:34
If you're going to put Renaissance up there with the others you can't leave Frank Zappa out.
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Posted By: Sacro_Porgo
Date Posted: June 16 2020 at 23:30
Well if we're including Zappa... Yes Genesis Pink Floyd Emerson, Lake, And Palmer King Crimson Jethro Tull Frank Zappa Renaissance Camel Gentle Giant Camel Premiata Formerai Marconi Rush Kansas Van Der Graaf Generator How about a big 15? Any more major omissions? ------------- Porg for short. My love of music doesn't end with prog! Feel free to discuss all sorts of music with me. Odds are I'll give it a chance if I haven't already! :) |
Posted By: Progmind
Date Posted: June 16 2020 at 23:37
| Love both, oranges and apples, cant vote! |
Posted By: Awesoreno
Date Posted: June 17 2020 at 01:20
Well, you listed Camel twice there...
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Posted By: Rick1
Date Posted: June 17 2020 at 01:40
| In the UK, the big 6 reinforced their positions with major hit singles (I know, anathema to prog purists). Even King Crimson appeared on Top of the Pops in 1970 (the major single chart TV show watched by millions for non UK readers). Thus, they were in the wider public consciousness. Only Renaissance managed this towards the end of the 70s with 'Northern Lights'. Zappa is on a different plane but no one has mentioned Mike Oldfield - he had the kind of chart success to match the Big 6 in the 70s although the hit singles did not start to come until the early 80s. |
Posted By: Sacro_Porgo
Date Posted: June 17 2020 at 01:45
 oopsHm, okay swap out Camel number two for... I dunno, Banco Del Mutuo Soccorso? Or maybe get some fusion representation in there... how about Return To Forever? ------------- Porg for short. My love of music doesn't end with prog! Feel free to discuss all sorts of music with me. Odds are I'll give it a chance if I haven't already! :) |
Posted By: Sacro_Porgo
Date Posted: June 17 2020 at 01:49
I mean yeah, I get why the big 6 are what they are, same as thrash metal's big 4. It came down to commercial success, but are't we far enough away from that now that we could make a new list of the most popular prog artists based on something a little more artistically significant than sales? ------------- Porg for short. My love of music doesn't end with prog! Feel free to discuss all sorts of music with me. Odds are I'll give it a chance if I haven't already! :) |
Posted By: Rick1
Date Posted: June 17 2020 at 03:02
Well, then personal tastes comes into it rather than an objective metric. For instance, if pushed my top six would remove Jethro Tull and King Crimson and insert Henry Cow and Magma but I doubt many would agree!
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Posted By: Chaser
Date Posted: June 17 2020 at 03:11
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Gentle Giant without a doubt. They had a run of 6 albums that are all masterpieces IMO (ATT / TF / O / IAGH / TPATG / FH) plus 2 very good albums (The debut and Interview) They were unique, exceptional musicians, and would be in my top 6 every time. ------------- Songs cast a light on you |
Posted By: Manuel
Date Posted: June 17 2020 at 06:08
| Is too close to call for me. I love both of them very much. |
Posted By: Sacro_Porgo
Date Posted: June 17 2020 at 11:56
And what's wrong with getting subjective? That's what the top 100 on here is bass on after all. ------------- Porg for short. My love of music doesn't end with prog! Feel free to discuss all sorts of music with me. Odds are I'll give it a chance if I haven't already! :) |
Posted By: Progmind
Date Posted: June 17 2020 at 15:52
This!!!!
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Posted By: micky
Date Posted: June 17 2020 at 17:08
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spits beer on monitor.... god you all kill me... f**king Camel???? Big 6??? Monitors should be breaking all over even seeing those written together... At least GG deserves being considered in the 2nd or 3rd 6 as they are by most all but the most knuckleheaded.. easy vote.. though if not for their first 4 if would have been a lot harder and might have actually voted that other group. Their stuff was generic and uninspiring.. but wasn't the flagrant foul that was the post Phil albums where they forgot all that made them great and just amped up the complexity and ooohhh factor.. and forgot about writing good songs.. that had some depth, meaning or feeling to them. ------------- The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip |
Posted By: Awesoreno
Date Posted: June 17 2020 at 19:12
Well we'd have to make it a larger number if we start looking to each sub genre. If we're talking that sweet spot between influence and success in the 70s that define the 6, then I'd replace that extra Camel with Focus. If we're widening the time periods and getting more general with sub-genres (minus jazz), I'd replace Renaissance with Dream Theater (or maybe VDGG, not sure). Fusion has it's own big 5: Miles Davis, Herbie Hancock, Weather Report, Mahavishnu Orchestra, and RTF/Chick Corea solo (still can't believe he doesn't have an entry on here, if the Headhunters albums can get Herbie one, then Chick's 70s output should as well).
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Posted By: Machinemessiah
Date Posted: June 17 2020 at 20:39
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My Big *8* is with Rush and Marillion, in no particular order. Then would come Gong. Next, PFM. Then could come Gentle Giant... (though Caravan also comes to my mind.. I think it was the first or second band out of Big 6 I met long time ago, so fond of them  , but Camel maybe comes before) ...so GG. |
Posted By: Olape
Date Posted: June 20 2020 at 13:04
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Gentle Giant, of course. Camel... meh ------------- 
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Posted By: TexasKing
Date Posted: July 29 2022 at 09:57
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I prefer Camel. |
Posted By: digdug
Date Posted: July 29 2022 at 10:18
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Big 6 is the big 6 for a reason I like Camel a lot but Gentle Giant has 8 straight amazing albums in a row for me. Camel can't match that. voted GG ------------- Prog On! |
Posted By: Jared
Date Posted: July 29 2022 at 10:23
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Camel... without a doubt. making it 54 - 54 ! ------------- Music has always been a matter of energy to me. On some nights I believe that a car with the needle on empty can run 50 more miles if you have the right music very loud on the radio. Hunter S Thompson |
Posted By: Cristi
Date Posted: July 29 2022 at 11:03
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Posted By: Nogbad_The_Bad
Date Posted: July 29 2022 at 11:09
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Gentle Giant (VDGG) ------------- Ian Host of the Post-Avant Jazzcore Happy Hour on Progrock.com https://podcasts.progrock.com/post-avant-jazzcore-happy-hour/ |
Posted By: TexasKing
Date Posted: July 29 2022 at 12:08
Ain't Rush among the Big 6? |
Posted By: Psychedelic Paul
Date Posted: July 29 2022 at 13:28
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Camel, and at the risk of giving Jethro Tull fans the hump, I think Camel should replace them in the currently recognised "Big Six":- Emerson, Lake & Palmer Genesis Jethro Tull King Crimson Pink Floyd YES
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Posted By: Nogbad_The_Bad
Date Posted: July 29 2022 at 13:35
Strictly tier 2 ------------- Ian Host of the Post-Avant Jazzcore Happy Hour on Progrock.com https://podcasts.progrock.com/post-avant-jazzcore-happy-hour/ |
Posted By: Psychedelic Paul
Date Posted: July 29 2022 at 13:38
Funnily enough, I have more albums by Jethro Tull (10) than by Camel (9).
 |
Posted By: mellotronwave
Date Posted: July 29 2022 at 15:38
| I like both but Camel is ahead |
Posted By: dr wu23
Date Posted: July 30 2022 at 09:35
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Both........ ------------- One does nothing yet nothing is left undone. Haquin |
Posted By: suitkees
Date Posted: July 30 2022 at 12:32
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Neither... If there had to be a candidate for the Big Six, it should be VDGG (instead of JT). But I'm happy with the Big Six as they are. ------------- The razamataz is a pain in the bum |
Posted By: presdoug
Date Posted: July 30 2022 at 12:42
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Gentle Giant I don't like Camel.
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Posted By: Psychedelic Paul
Date Posted: July 30 2022 at 12:54
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Camel in the Big Six first tier and Gentle Giant in the third tier.
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Posted By: AFlowerKingCrimson
Date Posted: July 30 2022 at 14:16
| I would say Van der Graaf Generator also. Out of these two, though, probably Camel but not by a whole lot. Both are in my top ten probably. |
Posted By: CosmicVibration
Date Posted: July 30 2022 at 19:18
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easy choice... one belongs in the top 6 and the other doesn't. Gentle Giant top 5
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Posted By: Dellinger
Date Posted: July 30 2022 at 21:47
| In my mind,there are the Big Six, and then there are the next four, being Camel, Gentle Giant, Van Der Graaf Generator, and Renaissance. Of course, there are more bands from certain subgenres I don't really know very well yet, but that by reputation I think might be considered in some list of the sort, like The Strawbs, Hawkwind, Caravan, and I am surely forgetting/missing some other. |
Posted By: octopus-4
Date Posted: August 01 2022 at 05:59
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I think Camel aren't considered together with the big six because their debut came in 1974 when the big six where already active since years. Nowadays, I'd put them with the bigs together with GG and Renaissance, but the "six" where big also in terms of sales. These three bands never sold like Yes, Genesis and Pink Floyd. ------------- I stand with Roger Waters, I stand with Joan Baez, I stand with Victor Jara, I stand with Woody Guthrie. Music is revolution |
Posted By: jamesbaldwin
Date Posted: August 01 2022 at 07:03
Which are the big 6? Arent VdGG included? ------------- Amos Goldberg (professor of Genocide Studies at the Hebrew University in Jerusalem): Yes, it's genocide. It's so difficult and painful to admit it, but we can no longer avoid this conclusion. |
Posted By: CosmicVibration
Date Posted: August 01 2022 at 11:00
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1- Yes 2- Genesis 3- Gentle Giant 4- King Crimson 5- ELP 6- a battle between Magma and VDGG Camal should make it in my top 20, i think..
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Posted By: richardh
Date Posted: August 03 2022 at 14:46
nope Pink Floyd King Crimson Jethro Tull ELP Yes Genesis based on album sales and influence it seems entirely correct. Arguably you can add Camel, Marillion, Dream Theater and of course Rush to make a big ten. I respect VDGG immensely and undoubtedly Pawn Hearts is one of the greatest prog albums, but they never made a big mark enough. I do think popularity should be considered. Camel actually shifted a good number of units. For the same reason as VDGG , I don't think Gentle Giant can be included either. They will just have to be satisfied with creating a new style of classical music and maybe in 100 years that will get the appreciation they deserve
 |
Posted By: Sacro_Porgo
Date Posted: August 03 2022 at 16:46
Personally, there's only one band from the "official' big six that makes my top 5, and Rush beats them by a couple spots for me. But, as has been mentioned before, the "official" six are these bands: Pink Floyd Yes Jethro Tull King Crimson Genesis Emerson, Lake, And Palmer I think that's roughly in order of when their debuts came out. ------------- Porg for short. My love of music doesn't end with prog! Feel free to discuss all sorts of music with me. Odds are I'll give it a chance if I haven't already! :) |
Posted By: AlanB
Date Posted: August 06 2022 at 06:41
| Camel. From what I've heard of GG I haven't been able to get into them - and this is despite my favourite prog artist, Neal Morse, citing them as a major influence. |