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The Legacy of Covid 19

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Printed Date: December 02 2024 at 13:33
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Topic: The Legacy of Covid 19
Posted By: Chaser
Subject: The Legacy of Covid 19
Date Posted: April 13 2020 at 09:40
There has been a lot of discussion in the media about what the post Covid 19 world will look like, and I am interested to know what PA contributors think will happen.
 
If you think that the legacy of Covid 19 will be a radically changed world, then what do you think will change, and why do you think it will change?
 
Alternatively, if you think that, when this is all over, we will all just slip back into "business as usual" then why do you think this, and what do you think will be the consequences of this (if any)?
 
So, put your futurist hat on and tell me what the world will look like after Covid 19.....


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Songs cast a light on you



Replies:
Posted By: Lewian
Date Posted: April 13 2020 at 09:46
In the greater scheme of things, climate and environmental change should be much bigger than Covid-19. Covid-19 will lead to relatively minor changes, I'd think. Some companies will go bust, some others will come up, there will be economic trouble and maybe the odd unexpected solution. Not sure whether none of these will be "significant", so I'm between the second and third, but as I said, in comparison it'll be rather minor. 


Posted By: mathman0806
Date Posted: April 13 2020 at 11:07
I am between the second and third choices as well. It does depend on how you define significant. Individually, there are people whose lives will be significantly changed. And in the short-term (for a year), how certain businesses operate will be significantly changed. Though there will be some lasting policy changes. I leaned to second choice.


Posted By: Shadowyzard
Date Posted: April 13 2020 at 11:17
It will be world changing multifacetedly, I presume.


Posted By: moshkito
Date Posted: April 13 2020 at 11:46
Hi,

I'm waiting for Roger's next album declaring something or other about this whole thing! I probably won't buy it so I won't feel contaminated with angry this or that. Kinda getting old for that stuff! Wink


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Music is not just for listening ... it is for LIVING ... you got to feel it to know what's it about! Not being told!
www.pedrosena.com


Posted By: Chaser
Date Posted: April 13 2020 at 12:00
Some good points so far.  I agree that it depends on the definition of "significant"
 
I would define "significant" as a change which has a long term and noticeable impact on the lives of ordinary citizens.
 
For example, home working has become the norm for huge numbers of people during this crises.  If this becomes normalised then it will represent a "significant" change in the lives of ordinary citizens.
 
On the other hand, the government deciding to ensure that all hospital PPE is manufactured in the UK in future, rather than sourced from abroad, is a change that most ordinary citizens won't notice in their daily lives, so I would call this a "minor" change.
 
So, "significant" is a noticeable and long term change in the lives of ordinary citizens.


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Songs cast a light on you


Posted By: Man With Hat
Date Posted: April 13 2020 at 12:20
Originally posted by Lewian Lewian wrote:

In the greater scheme of things, climate and environmental change should be much bigger than Covid-19. Covid-19 will lead to relatively minor changes, I'd think. Some companies will go bust, some others will come up, there will be economic trouble and maybe the odd unexpected solution. Not sure whether none of these will be "significant", so I'm between the second and third, but as I said, in comparison it'll be rather minor. 
 

I"m here as well. Will there be changes? Sure...but the most immediate and long lasting that I can see at least as of now are things like Business A isn't there anymore or Business Chain C has 100 fewer stores nationwide. This will have economic impacts of course, but I don't see the groundswell to support massive sweeping societal changes (like after the great depression). 

Once there is a vaccine, I don't see people not throwing large parties, not going to bars, not shaking hands or engaging in other socially accpetable (or not) physical touching of other humans, etc etc. Hell, people are still doing some of that now!


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Dig me...But don't...Bury me
I'm running still, I shall until, one day, I hope that I'll arrive
Warning: Listening to jazz excessively can cause a laxative effect.


Posted By: Easy Money
Date Posted: April 13 2020 at 12:33
Changes?
I wonder how soon buffets, salad bars, olive bars and self-serve bulk food bins will be coming back, if at all,

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Posted By: Catcher10
Date Posted: April 13 2020 at 13:51
Originally posted by moshkito moshkito wrote:

Hi,

I'm waiting for Roger's next album declaring something or other about this whole thing! I probably won't buy it so I won't feel contaminated with angry this or that. Kinda getting old for that stuff! Wink
As I said before Roger is a doosh.....an entertainer only, I have ZERO desire to hear about what an entertainer thinks about the economy or their political views.

As far as what I think after Covid-19......Major changes with regard to crowd events, flying, public transportation. By that I mean people will be wearing masks all the time and if you sneeze or cough God help you as you will probably be banished and at minimum be looked at like "why are you not home!!"

Major changes to peoples attitudes towards everyone else. Hopefully the US will bring some mfg back in country of medical supplies, so we are not held captive by China and others. Big learning lesson there.


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Posted By: Tom Ozric
Date Posted: April 13 2020 at 14:11
Much of the human race will be paranoid, O.C.D. germophobes.....
Some will cough and get bashed. Someone will spit and get arrested.
Dunno, people will just slip back into old ways. Just a minor blip in the whole scheme of things. Hope I Live to see it through.


Posted By: dwill123
Date Posted: April 13 2020 at 14:28
Even before this event is declared officially over I believe that wholesale 'automation' will go into overdrive.


Posted By: lazland
Date Posted: April 13 2020 at 14:43
Originally posted by dwill123 dwill123 wrote:

Even before this event is declared officially over I believe that wholesale 'automation' will go into overdrive.

That’s a really interesting observation, and one I regretfully agree with.

If there is a worldwide recession, then probably not much will change immediately. If it is a depression, then lots, including the above. Depressions always change society.

I suspect that whatever transpires, western counties will seek less reliance on Chinese manufacturing. Trump and elements of the Republicans are predisposed to this. The UK government, on the other hand, is earnestly enthusiastic for globalism. Even here, though, the inevitable public hearing on how ill prepared we were will have to lead to changes and more being done here.

There will be a huge amount of poverty, social unrest, and premature deaths if there is a deep economic dive.


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Enhance your life. Get down to www.lazland.org

Now also broadcasting on www.progzilla.com Every Saturday, 4.00 p.m. UK time!


Posted By: Sean Trane
Date Posted: April 13 2020 at 15:07
My wish is A).... but unfortunately, I predict C)Cry

All of these major companies have been in the starting blocks ever since the second day of the lockdown, and they will do everything to go back to normal.

Though I do suspect that some changes will happen (return of experience, for ex), but it will be relatively minor


Posted By: Catcher10
Date Posted: April 13 2020 at 15:20
Originally posted by lazland lazland wrote:

Originally posted by dwill123 dwill123 wrote:

Even before this event is declared officially over I believe that wholesale 'automation' will go into overdrive.

That’s a really interesting observation, and one I regretfully agree with.

If there is a worldwide recession, then probably not much will change immediately. If it is a depression, then lots, including the above. Depressions always change society.

I suspect that whatever transpires, western counties will seek less reliance on Chinese manufacturing. Trump and elements of the Republicans are predisposed to this. The UK government, on the other hand, is earnestly enthusiastic for globalism. Even here, though, the inevitable public hearing on how ill prepared we were will have to lead to changes and more being done here.

There will be a huge amount of poverty, social unrest, and premature deaths if there is a deep economic dive.

Agree my friend! I am very afraid of a recession, currently signs show otherwise but wonder if all people not working will be able to go back. Companies always use these events to reduce and cut what they deem is redundant. The service industry is my fear like restaurant segment and the like.....
I think everyone needs to understand countries were ill prepared because nobody had a clue how bad it could get so quickly. Medical workers are trained to change PPE every time they visit a new patient room to be clean, I don't have numbers but the hospitals were overcome with people what by maybe 60-70% more than normal? I doubt any country is prepared for that kind of use of supplies.
I am sure all of us will bulk up by 50% as compared to what stocking levels were before Covid19 on medical supplies. And yes less reliance on China mfg is a factor.......I was disappointed to hear that most if not all countries that might have extra supplies are on export lockdown to send to someone else.

Like most I'm hoping for the best post Covid19, still hearing though that any approved vaccine is 10-12 months away. Cry


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Posted By: Chaser
Date Posted: April 13 2020 at 16:16
I've gone for option 2.   I think there will be significant changes, but it may take some years before we can look back and see that the change was a consequence of the pandemic.
 
One of the major impacts that I see coming out of this is around nationalism and populism.
 
As soon as this crisis took off, citizens everywhere looked to their national governments to give them the security that they needed, and not to supranational bodies like the European Union.
 
The EU was largely impotent up until the belated and half hearted financial package announced last week.
 
All the grand ideas like Schengen and freedom of movement evaporated in a heartbeat as nations took back control of their borders and moved to regulate citizens' movements.
 
At the same time it seems that experts are back in fashion.
 
In a medical crisis like this people want the opinion of experts, not the soundbites of populist politicians.
 
My prediction, therefore, is that one of the legacies of Covid 19 will be an increase in nationalism, as citizens demand that control remains with the nation state, but, on the other hand, I see a movement away from populists, as expert opinion is favoured over soundbites and slogans.
 
So, more nationalism, but nations that are guided more by technical expertise than by populists.


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Songs cast a light on you


Posted By: moshkito
Date Posted: April 13 2020 at 19:01
Originally posted by Tom Ozric Tom Ozric wrote:

Much of the human race will be paranoid, O.C.D. germophobes.....
Some will cough and get bashed. Someone will spit and get arrested.
Dunno, people will just slip back into old ways. Just a minor blip in the whole scheme of things. Hope I Live to see it through.

Hi,

For rock music, this is probably for the best ... it takes out the big behemoth record company and their adverts in London, NY and Tokyo ... so that we have a chance to see something else instead of ... yet again ... old fogies making fools of themselves!

What it will do is create the VIRTUAL CONCERT, and you buy tickets for it ... so at any night, any band, can "sell out" easily and blow up the location in Seattle that couldn't even sell 3K tickets and caused such a big hoopla about nothing, and did not really support the show at all.

For once, you can get some Phideaux fans together and they will pay their $5 dollars each, and a thousand of these show up on that night, and he can make a small bit of peanuts and get himself a nice dinner for the family! FINALLY!

It's a chance for many bands to show ... and not have to be at the mercy of sick and pathetic hit-based fans, shouting rock'n'roll in the middle of Tangerine Dream that used to happen way back when. 

I have always thought and wanted to see each and every band, in charge of the virtual concert thing, in order to get away from the "media" onslaught that has hurt all kinds of music except their numbered "top ten".

Gads, we might even get to see a new PROGRESSIVE MUSIC come up, instead of hearing hits all the time! AND NOW IS THE TIME TO DO IT BEFORE THE MEDIA BUYS IT ALL OUT AND TURN IT INTO ANOTHER TOP TEN CRAPPER, LIKE THEY DID FM RADIO IN AMERICA.




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Music is not just for listening ... it is for LIVING ... you got to feel it to know what's it about! Not being told!
www.pedrosena.com


Posted By: TCat
Date Posted: April 13 2020 at 19:03
I kind of lean towards the 3rd option, but I honestly think it all depends what country you live in.  It would be great if it made some very significant changes in the attitudes of people in the states, but it most likely won't be very significant there.  Whether or not Trump forces the States into opening up their businesses again, it doesn't matter because he will take the credit if the results are good and will blame everyone else if its bad. 
 
I think we'll see other countries start to take the dangers of spreading illnesses  or viruses more seriously and many of them will think more seriously about the future and what they can do to make things better.  I don't expect that attitude from the States unfortunately.  

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https://ibb.co/8x0xjR0" rel="nofollow">


Posted By: chopper
Date Posted: April 14 2020 at 04:31
I really hope we learn from this, but I suspect we won't.


Posted By: moshkito
Date Posted: April 14 2020 at 07:21
Originally posted by chopper chopper wrote:

I really hope we learn from this, but I suspect we won't.

Hi,

I am not wanting to be a pessimist, or anything, but in the end, I think this whole thing says more about the medical establishments in many countries than it does anything else ... that it spreads so fast in places like NY is not a surprise ... the place is over crowded and it needs to be slimmed down badly. It might even signal the end of the over sized cities around the world. (It will bust most "unions" ... since these don't usually do well in small towns!). That is spreads so fast in some regions, just tells you that the conditions for these things are better than in other places ... poor regions mostly and very bad medical conditions with doctors 75 years old still giving you aspirin!

One good thing ... it should improve the working from home on the computer a lot more ... my work at Charter before I retired, could have been done at home, and I would not have minded adding a phone line for it ... but they wanted the "crowd control" and the "eye over your shoulder" a lot more than they were interested in the work being done correctly. In fact, most call centers can be done from home ... but that leaves the middle management folks, of which all Cable Companies are way too full of, in trouble, because you won't need as many "supervisors" and "managers". And Call Center situations are the worst ... our station, and we had a dedicated group for database entry, was dirty and around the computer and behind was a lively nest of little critters that did not bother you ... that never got cleaned up!

Well, I guess I don't vacuum behind my computers, but I got them setup so that it can be cleaned up behind and help keep the dust off them!

So, all in all ... the bigger issue is that most places will try to continue as before ... no changes ... except telling you to use the alcohol again before the next call and DON'T TALK TO YOUR NEIGHBOR ... which is something they were already doing before to prevent socializing at work that has the tendency to create more issues than it resolves!


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Music is not just for listening ... it is for LIVING ... you got to feel it to know what's it about! Not being told!
www.pedrosena.com


Posted By: Blacksword
Date Posted: April 14 2020 at 08:39
I think the world will be very different, and the changes will be significant. There will be a sense of fear and paranoia among populations, and the media will ensure this is sustained, by always pushing the idea that the next pandemic is just round the corner.

The economic depression will be deep and sustained, the world over. There will be sky high unemployment, and stratospheric levels of crime and disorder, which governments will manage with lockdowns and curfews, which populations will be aclimated to, and broadly accepting of.

On the upside, it's likely that a greater share of each nations GDP will go into healthcare provision.



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Ultimately bored by endless ecstasy!


Posted By: SteveG
Date Posted: April 14 2020 at 09:35


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Posted By: progaardvark
Date Posted: April 14 2020 at 16:29
It would be nice if there were significant changes. An international agreement should be put in place that all nations can agree to cooperate with for the next pandemic that takes place. Each country will need to take a long hard look at their own policies to see where they can do better.

As for the U.S., maybe people won't vote in idiots that dismantle portions of the federal government that would have reacted quicker to this pandemic or fill important cabinet positions with industry lobbyists. Maybe people will listen to scientists for a change and take what they say seriously. Maybe we can finally hash out a universal health care system and strengthen our social safety nets. Maybe we can put some sort of policies in place that can pause an economy during a pandemic so that when it is over people can return to their jobs and still retain their businesses. I'm not going to hold my breath that any of this will happen.



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i'm shopping for a new oil-cured sinus bag
that's a happy bag of lettuce
this car smells like cartilage
nothing beats a good video about fractions


Posted By: Easy Money
Date Posted: April 14 2020 at 17:55
Originally posted by progaardvark progaardvark wrote:

It would be nice if there were significant changes. An international agreement should be put in place that all nations can agree to cooperate with for the next pandemic that takes place. Each country will need to take a long hard look at their own policies to see where they can do better.

As for the U.S., maybe people won't vote in idiots that dismantle portions of the federal government that would have reacted quicker to this pandemic or fill important cabinet positions with industry lobbyists. Maybe people will listen to scientists for a change and take what they say seriously. Maybe we can finally hash out a universal health care system and strengthen our social safety nets. Maybe we can put some sort of policies in place that can pause an economy during a pandemic so that when it is over people can return to their jobs and still retain their businesses. I'm not going to hold my breath that any of this will happen.

All of that would be nice, the greed of the self-centered and the propaganda they spread gets in the way.

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Help the victims of the russian invasion:
http://www.jazzmusicarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=28523&PID=130446&title=various-ways-you-can-help-ukraine#130446


Posted By: rogerthat
Date Posted: April 14 2020 at 21:42
I voted 2 but I expect/fear 1.  Like Lazland, I believe this will spur a quantum leap in automation.  Much greater surveillance of our activities will also be accepted in order to protect us from future pandemics. The recession is also going to be long and painful.  Those expecting a V shaped recovery must be dreaming.  That would have been possible with a co-ordinated response across the world but with the chaos and bickering, the recovery will be chaotic and uneven too.  The US political establishment still appears to believe in outdated economic theories and doesn't understand concepts like velocity of money. A smaller stimulus but one directed towards the little guy would have been far more effective because spending the same unit of money several times over is what spurs demand.  But nah, always big business, big banks, big everything, always bigly.  Our own stimulus has been woefully inadequate. But at least we have a BBB- rating and the idiot credit rating agencies will actually punish us for doing the right thing, so we are constrained (thus giving our own idiot Finance Minister a wonderful alibi).  What does US have to lose?  You print the world's reserve currency and you still debate and curtail the bailout in the face of Great Depression levels of unemployment?  Just doesn't compute.  


Posted By: SteveG
Date Posted: April 15 2020 at 09:37
What disaster does not effect change. Think of the world after 9/11.

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Posted By: Triceratopsoil
Date Posted: April 16 2020 at 11:51
Chinese Wuhan SARS-2 Coronavirus probably isn't the "big one," but when it happens it will happen almost exactly like this


Posted By: Icarium
Date Posted: April 16 2020 at 12:37
I will call this the next big paradigme shift hich we will dile our callander and history books after. It will guide our science and political agenda and be a small stone which will have impact on change in both small and large term.

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Posted By: moshkito
Date Posted: April 25 2020 at 06:04
Originally posted by Icarium Icarium wrote:

I will call this the next big paradigme shift hich we will dile our callander and history books after. It will guide our science and political agenda and be a small stone which will have impact on change in both small and large term.

Hi,

I'm not exactly a pessimist (wouldn't be alive if that were the case!), but the sad fact is that the only way something will get done and the garbage and smog wars handled is if somewhere, several millions of people get sick and fall from it ... at that point, I think that some world leaders will see this A LOT LESS as a political tool like a couple of folks are doing ... and begin doing something about it, instead of playing online war games complete with great UI's ... for their daily addiction to manipulation and games. 

And maybe some dictators and bad systems will fall with it ... but then, I'm not sure a malady gives a damn who is under it or not ... it hasn't before, and it could also be considered a war ... which was the case in WW1 and WW2 when more innocents died for no cause than anything else ... but what it left behind was not only ugly ... we continue to invest in it!


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Music is not just for listening ... it is for LIVING ... you got to feel it to know what's it about! Not being told!
www.pedrosena.com


Posted By: someone_else
Date Posted: April 25 2020 at 06:09
Option #2. I fear that this might not be just a once in a lifetime incident. Moreover, this pandemic proves to be a powerful tool for imposing some political agendas.

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Posted By: Tom Ozric
Date Posted: April 25 2020 at 06:31
Originally posted by someone_else someone_else wrote:

Option #2. I fear that this might not be just a once in a lifetime incident. Moreover, this pandemic proves to be a powerful tool for imposing some political agendas.
your last sentence has been on my mind for weeks. I worry for the sh*t our politicos will impose on us folk in the future.


Posted By: Slartibartfast
Date Posted: April 25 2020 at 07:38
I'm thinking it will be making things bad in the short term but it will probably end up being like the flu of 1918 where we will need to get a vaccine every year. 

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Released date are often when it it impacted you but recorded dates are when it really happened...



Posted By: AFlowerKingCrimson
Date Posted: May 29 2020 at 21:57
I almost voted for the first one but went with the second.

After this is over no more hugs or hand shaking other than close friends and relatives. 


Posted By: CPicard
Date Posted: June 03 2020 at 11:16
Fifth (and final) option: it just will go worse.
Today's news headlines just confirm it.


Posted By: Easy Money
Date Posted: June 03 2020 at 12:48
Six people died in our county yesterday. If that rate continues we are talking over 2,000 for the year from today. The government recently reopened a lot of things and the death rate is moving upwards.


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Help the victims of the russian invasion:
http://www.jazzmusicarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=28523&PID=130446&title=various-ways-you-can-help-ukraine#130446



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