Art Zoyd
Printed From: Progarchives.com
Category: Progressive Music Lounges
Forum Name: Prog Bands, Artists and Genres Appreciation
Forum Description: Discuss specific prog bands and their members or a specific sub-genre
URL: http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=121131
Printed Date: February 23 2025 at 08:50
Software Version: Web Wiz Forums 11.01 - http://www.webwizforums.com
Topic: Art Zoyd
Posted By: YESESIS
Subject: Art Zoyd
Date Posted: October 08 2019 at 18:43
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So last night I listened to the first two Art Zoyd albums(on Logan's recommendation) and I actually liked them. Reminded me of Zappa a bit. Like a cross between Zappa and Magma, with a little bit of Can maybe. Definitely some classical too in there. Both albums had their slow points, where just not much seemed to be going on(musically). But Zappa can get like that in spots too. But both albums when they were good, were actually really good(to my ears). So I'm just curious what some of you think of this band.. and maybe what are some other good albums from them for me to check out next. Thanks.
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Replies:
Posted By: AFlowerKingCrimson
Date Posted: October 08 2019 at 19:10
Paging Dr. Nogbad......
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Posted By: Man With Hat
Date Posted: October 08 2019 at 19:28
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The first five (including the remade debut album) are all nearly essentially listening. After this, they went much more electronic, but did it gradually, so what I refer to as their middle period (from Les Escapes Inquiets through about Metropolis) where they mix the electronic and acoustic classic influence very successfully (and I find this is where they are the most consistently rock-y in their discog). After this, they go almost fully electronic and much more minimal, which they do well (IMO) but certainly is a pretty different field from their early stuff (and well out of the way of rock music, if that's something that is important to you). My list of must listen toos: Faust Berlin Haxan Phase IV ------------- Dig me...But don't...Bury me I'm running still, I shall until, one day, I hope that I'll arrive Warning: Listening to jazz excessively can cause a laxative effect. |
Posted By: YESESIS
Date Posted: October 08 2019 at 19:39
So it sounds like any of their first five are good then. Thank you, that's helpful. This could be my newest big discovery here. We'll see.
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Man With Hat wrote:Posted By: Nogbad_The_Bad
Date Posted: October 08 2019 at 19:50
Weeelllllll I actually go through the first six as essential through http://www.progarchives.com/album.asp?id=4706" rel="nofollow - Le Mariage Du Ciel Et De L'Enfer , of those Generation Sans Futur is probably my favorite. I agree on Haxan & Phase IV ------------- Ian Host of the Post-Avant Jazzcore Happy Hour on Progrock.com https://podcasts.progrock.com/post-avant-jazzcore-happy-hour/ |
Posted By: YESESIS
Date Posted: October 08 2019 at 19:59
Ok, the ones I listened to were Symphonie Pour Le Jour Oů Brűleront Les Cités and Musique Pour L'Odyssee. I'll listen to this Generation Sans Futur next then. Thank you.
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Posted By: micky
Date Posted: October 08 2019 at 21:10
^ consider yourself saucepanned man... you've been converted... welcome to the club  now get yourself a new avatart... ------------- The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip |
Posted By: YESESIS
Date Posted: October 08 2019 at 21:28
Haha thanks man. I've been listening to Génération Sans Futur. It has some slow parts also but like a little past the halfway point there kind of starts to be like a lot going on(musically). I like it! Don't know about the new avi just yet though lol. But if I get really, really into this band(which defiinitely could happen) then I just might.
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Posted By: Sean Trane
Date Posted: October 09 2019 at 01:55
For me, those are the most essential (especially if you go by the titles, once you know of AZ's background), but yes all first four albums are absolutely worthy, a,nnd up until roughly the mid-80's , it's all good |
Posted By: Lewian
Date Posted: October 09 2019 at 04:30
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For me Art Zoyd are a "big 5" band. Some years ago when we did our top 200 or so album lists, Art Zoyd was the band with most albums in mine. They have lots and lots of material and I like pretty much all of it, actually the only bad album they did I can think of is "Pure Noise", and given its very honest name one can't complain about that one either. I'm probably one of the few who by and large prefers their more electronic material. In later days they left the realms of rock music almost totally and became an experimental avantgarde outfit, collaborating on their Experiences de Vol series with a number of contemporary composers. Recent "regular" releases such as Eye Catcher and Phase V are still very strong, and Champ des Larmes is maybe the coldest music you'll ever hear, and as such is very special (if certainly not for everyone). These days I think Metropolis is my favourite, even leaving behind the (in general opinion) highlights of their electronic period Berlin and Häxan, both of which are top class anyway. Marathonnerre I is another album I love, it is probably the warmest of their more electronic ones. Not sure whether their preference for dark/horror themes (as on Nosferatu and Häxan, also elsewhere) resonates with you though. That said, I surely also appreciate their earlier work, with Generation sans futur and Phase IV probably my favourites there.
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Posted By: Logan
Date Posted: October 09 2019 at 05:51
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It's not one I would deliberately recommend lightly. I think I got into it via discovering Miriodor (that's one I'd recommend checking out and I guess you might well already know Samla Mammas Manna, if not https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gwouLphkxiA" rel="nofollow - Maltid ) which I got into via getting into Gentle Giant. I'm particularly into Art Zoyd's albums up to and including Berlin, as well as Faust and Haxan from the mid 90s which I adore, and Metropolis from the 2000s, but I do like other albums very much as well. When we've had Art Zoyd polls, I've often voted for Génération sans futur, but I actually can't really choose a favourite. I've often cited it as my favourite band. I liked the different phases. I enjoy the earlier warmer "chamber" material and the colder later releases. I might recommend you try Berlin next. As you've listened to the earlier classics, this is another side of the band that I love, but the albums are colder than the early ones (the first is off Les espaces inquiets, one of my Art Zoyd faves, but not many seem to like the album nearly as much as I do and is the second lowest rated of the 80s ones, the rating has gone up considerably since I last looked methinks): By the way, have I recommended Ennio Morricone?  
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Posted By: Logan
Date Posted: October 09 2019 at 06:11
I've had you pegged as much more of a Univers Zero/ Present guy than Art Zoyd as those can really chamber rock. ;) |
Posted By: Nogbad_The_Bad
Date Posted: October 09 2019 at 08:05
I'm certainly more of a UZ / Present guy, I've got everything by both bands and don't believe either has made an album that is less than "good". I've seen each of them around 4 times. I've been into AZ in a minimal way for many years but really dived into them more heavily when they played RIO a few years ago and Cuneiform released the big boxset of all the unreleased material. I've been spending more time on AZ than UZ/Present in recent just because I have less of their catalog and I'm less familiar with the depth of it. I certainly rank they as highly in terms of importance and quality of music. I could see myself having a lot more of their stuff in the upcoming years.
------------- Ian Host of the Post-Avant Jazzcore Happy Hour on Progrock.com https://podcasts.progrock.com/post-avant-jazzcore-happy-hour/ |
Posted By: Nogbad_The_Bad
Date Posted: October 09 2019 at 08:52
When I ran the RIO World Cup in Feb they came in 5th of the RIO big 5. 1 Univers Zero 2 Henry Cow 3 Frank Zappa 4 Samla Mammas Manna 5 Art Zoyd ------------- Ian Host of the Post-Avant Jazzcore Happy Hour on Progrock.com https://podcasts.progrock.com/post-avant-jazzcore-happy-hour/ |
Posted By: Logan
Date Posted: October 09 2019 at 09:32
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Frank Zappa is not and never should be thought of as part of the RIO big five, and I wouldn't have ever thought of him as part of RIO period (seen many call him RIO). Art Zoyd is a second string Rock in Opposition band (i.e. not an original member of the "movement"), but then Frank Zappa was never part of the movement (an influence, sure). I don't think he would have signed on to their manifesto or would fit in (very different...). Your series was not just about RIO, though as I recall, but avant prog generally. I've thought that Frank Zappa, by the way, would fit Eclectic Prog better than Avant Prog, but that's another issue. The core RIO, for those that don't know from the first RIO festival (1978) is: Henry Cow (England) Stormy Six (Italy) Samla Mammas Manna (Sweden) Univers Zero (Belgium) Etron Fou Leloublan (France) Then for the second festival (1979), these came in: Art Zoyd (France) Art Bears (England, which consisted of former Henry Cow members) Aksak Maboul (Belgium) Much as I love Art Zoyd, and the others from the second festival, I do think the big RIO five should be the ones from the first festival, and Henry Cow should be number one for historical reasons. A lot of people don't seem to know the history of RIO who use it meaning avant-prog generally. In filmic terms, RIO quite reminded me of Dogme 95. So actually, Art Zoyd scored fourth as a RIO band. Good to see that of the top five, four of them are RIO. |
Posted By: Lewian
Date Posted: October 09 2019 at 15:11
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Well obviously a historical "big 5" is much different from a "big 5" based on quality (whatever we think that is). If I'm not mistaken, Art Zoyd's catalogue is bigger than that of all the original five combined. Taste is obviously subjective but for me their best work is second to none in that movement (or anywhere actually), so from my point of view they have a pretty clear dominance of that group (of which I love quite a bit of other stuff anyway), but that's of course completely ahistoric. Certainly I thought that rank 5 in Ian's world cup was a rather disappointing showing, but then it's clear that in a rock forum their stuff will not be everybody's cup of tea, not even among panheads. |
Posted By: Nogbad_The_Bad
Date Posted: October 09 2019 at 16:33
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Well it was a RIO/Avant World Cup and Frank is on the site as Avant so I could hardly omit him, it was a bit of fun, nothing serious. Art Zoyd are a pretty important Avant band with or without the RIO historical significance. ------------- Ian Host of the Post-Avant Jazzcore Happy Hour on Progrock.com https://podcasts.progrock.com/post-avant-jazzcore-happy-hour/ |
Posted By: YESESIS
Date Posted: October 09 2019 at 16:44
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Cool this thread has developed into a whole interesting(certainly for me) discussion here. And thank you all for your input. Logan, I listened to your three samples. I liked the first one very much. The last two were good.. but somewhat hard to really get into(for me). So RIO means Rock in Opposition then? And Zappa wouldn't have wanted to be part of that movement? Sorry, I'm so new and confused about all of this. I guess it's very different from the symphonic prog that I know and love. Oh well, all very interesting, for sure. |
Posted By: Man With Hat
Date Posted: October 09 2019 at 16:59
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Yes, RIO is short form for Rock In Opposition. Technically speaking, there are only 8 true RIO bands, the 8 bands that were part of those two Rock In Opposition festivals that Logan mentioned above. (This does make RIO unique in the sense that the name/connection is derived from a moment in time as opposed to a true musical connection (like symphonic prog or prog-folk), although musically there is a fair deal of relatability between all 8 of those artists.) Every other band under the RIO/Avant-rock banner is technically Avant-Rock, even bands like Present, Far Corner, or Thinking Plague who are all very much influenced musically by the 8 RIO bands. That said, I do think it's fairly commonly accepted that the term RIO has morphed into more of a stylistic blanket term for bands that sound like/are highly influenced from those original RIO bands. Similarly, if someone described Univers Zero as a Avant-Rock band, I don't think there would be too much of a hubbub raised. (Not to imply Logan's response is a hubbub, of course. There is the important historical distinction to be made, especially for people that are just learning about the subgenre.) Glad you are starting to take the plunge. :)
------------- Dig me...But don't...Bury me I'm running still, I shall until, one day, I hope that I'll arrive Warning: Listening to jazz excessively can cause a laxative effect. |
Posted By: YESESIS
Date Posted: October 09 2019 at 18:24
Thanks man. Yeah I'm liking this Art Zoyd so far. I tried listening to some Henry Cow a while back and idk some of it didn't sound musical enough, maybe it's an acquired taste though. I'll try again at some point maybe. I want to get into this RIO deal as it seems to be important on here. Oh and that Ennio Morricone that Logan mentioned, I looked him up and seems to be mostly movies or something. But if he's really important then I'll check him out too sometime.
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Posted By: Logan
Date Posted: October 09 2019 at 20:56
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There are plenty of bands placed in the R.I.O. camp, and the eight bands from the first two festivals are commonly called the core R.I.O. bands. One might consider most any band that plays a RIO festival RIO in a sense, and indeed those who were influenced and are off-shoots of the core RIO may also be considered RIO, and it can describe styles of music, or, I'd rather say, an attitude to making music, which is pretty core to it. As for Ennio Morricone, I was kidding a bit, since I used to kind of go and on about Morricone and thought you might have noticed, but that was mostly before you joined (I lose track of time). I was rather hoping to get him into PA as related after getting in one of his projects called The Feedback. I've long been a very big soundtrack collector, and Morricone is a personal favourite. I have so many of his soundtracks. The first soundtrack of his I remember noticing was for The Mission (loved that film and the music). Later I got to know his 70s and 60s work, and I think he still put out very good stuff quite recently, but delving into that would be for another topic. Ian, In case I wasn't clear, I know what you meant. ;) Lewian, I only meant of historical importance for founding RIO. Art Zoyd came along soon, and in terms of its long-time output, it's very likely been the most important band to me in PA. It has meant so much to me since I discovered it 15 or so years ago. Most of my discoveries from then I lost interest in over the years, but Art Zoyd has always had pretty regularly playtime from me -- I can most always seem to find an album by Zoyd that I would like to return to at a given time. By the way, a few years before I joined this site, I was mostly into Symphonic Prog, but my tastes shifted as I experienced more and more categories. I used to listen to a lot more Avant Prog actually than I do now. I mentioned Samla Mammas Manna earlier, and I seem to think I talked with you about it before and recommended it? I don't trust my memory these days. Maltid, if you don't know it, might be one that would appeal to your Zappa sense. There's lots of fun stuff in RIO/Avant Prog as well as plenty of very serious music. Frogg Cafe is one you might like very much and one of the first post 70s albums I really got into is U Totem's self-titled, which I'd think could appeal to various symphonic prog listeners(not saying you'd like it, though you might...). As a Gentle Giant fan, Miriodor is what first opened me up to the idea that modern Prog can really appeal to me, but that's my off-beat taste. |
Posted By: YESESIS
Date Posted: October 09 2019 at 21:42
A lot of useful information, thank you again. And a lot of suggestions here.. maybe if I like listen to one album from each, and then see how many of them stick. I do really like those first three Art Zoyd albums. And if Magma is considered part of the deal then I obviously like them a lot especially MDK. I pretty much consider that a masterpiece at this point. Henry Cow, Idk I should probably try again I guess. Zappa I love but I guess he's Avant but not RIO? And lately I've been loving classical music. And I love solo Phil Collins.. ooops that slipped out, sorry everyone. Anyway, thank you again.. everyone. This has been a most helpful thread.
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Posted By: Logan
Date Posted: October 09 2019 at 22:21
"Rock in Opposition: The music the record companies don't want you to hear." See http://www.ccutler.co.uk/rioartbearsff.htm" rel="nofollow - http://www.ccutler.co.uk/rioartbearsff.htm Magma is at least RIO related. I'd actually happily count it as part of the RIO family. While it's the founder of Zeuhl, it has played RIO fests, Art Zoyd was I believe inspired by Magma (you can hear the similarities at times in those early albums) and Magma/ Art Zoyd even have a compilation together: MAGMA / ART ZOYD - MEKANIK DESTRUCTIV KOMMANDO See: http://www.progarchives.com/album.asp?id=62697" rel="nofollow - http://www.progarchives.com/album.asp?id=62697 In 1976, Art Zoyd was opening for Magma. Magma may have been too popular and busy to joining the original RIO fests, and maybe wouldn't have wanted to sign on to the "movement", but yeah, Magma would have fit nicely musically, but it was also a political statement. See: https://www.squidco.com/rer/rio.facts.html" rel="nofollow - https://www.squidco.com/rer/rio.facts.html From the first RIO festival (1978):
From the second RIO festival:
Post-RIO:
It may have all been quite naive and idealistic, and some will say damn them Commies (not that they all were), but the history of RIO I find interesting. |
Posted By: Barbu
Date Posted: October 09 2019 at 22:50
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Haven't really listened to any avant/rio (a genre I know quite well though) since the early 00s. Not sure I have the patience for it anymore. I might return someday, I haven't yet sold the cds I have, so who knows? ------------- |
Posted By: Logan
Date Posted: October 09 2019 at 23:32
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What self-respecting Zappa admirer wouldn't still have some patience for, or get some enjoyment out of, this RIO band (not that R.I.O. existed when this album came out)? Kind of funny I'm mentioning other bands when my favourite RIO is Art Zoyd. |
Posted By: Nogbad_The_Bad
Date Posted: October 10 2019 at 05:47
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I'd suggest you explore Univers Zero as one of the next bands if you don't know them already, they're a bit more accessible that Henry Cow and have a very strong discography. Etron Fou & Aksak Maboul can be difficult too. Samla are loads of fun. ------------- Ian Host of the Post-Avant Jazzcore Happy Hour on Progrock.com https://podcasts.progrock.com/post-avant-jazzcore-happy-hour/ |
Posted By: YESESIS
Date Posted: October 10 2019 at 16:30
Yeah, thanks for sharing all of that. Everyone has their own opinions when it comes to religion and politics obviously. My feeling is that communism doesn't work, nor even socialism. But I don't go way to other extremely of the right though either(by any means). Buddhism(which greatly influences my thinking) is very big on 'the middle way' which is basically trying to avoid extremes in most things and being more moderate(sensible as I see it). So yeah I'll certainly still listen to the music. I like Art Zoyd, and obviously Magma. That's interesting, btw, that they have collaborated and stuff together in the past. I had noticed that they're both French. So that's cool man, kind of a 'meeting of the megapowers' or something like that to my mind. So no panhead, no new avi.. but I will continue listening to this music. Thank you again.
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Posted By: YESESIS
Date Posted: October 10 2019 at 16:33
Yeah I've seen them mentioned a few times on this forum, so probably should check them out next. Thanks.
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Posted By: Homotopy
Date Posted: November 28 2019 at 08:52
Dunno, for me Aksak were obviously easier to understand than UZ. Straight craziness as of Aksak is an obvious hook, whereas I still struggle to understand what UZ are about.
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