Okay folks, the same old discussion but this time albums get eliminated easily. In my opinion, if you are looking the best album of all time, it can't have a single "bad" song. For example,

Selling england py the pound, I know what I like for me is somehow always a little turndown... (Steve Hackett live last week was great tho!!) That means it drops automatically off the list. It has some masterpieces but they do not replace the "bad songs".

Close to the edge, on the list. Siberian Khatru is maybe the only one but then it's also a really solid track.

Pawn Hearts, on the list. Lemmings is the weakest link but still a classic one too.

Pink Floyd? I love all floyd albums but all of them have weak links, money, shine might get little bit boring, wall has some but Animals maybe? For me animals is the most solid work of floyd and might get a place on the list.

Thick as a brick, prolly the list, only part I disagree little bit is the drum solo on the beginning of the 2nd part.

If you decide the best album of all time like this, then there is not going to be many albums to choose from. Which classic albums should be eliminated and which included? What do you guys think :D

none of the usual suspects. there are so many better ones that unfortunately are too obscure. I would vote for "Fairy Tales" by Mother Gong

exactly 

The one that probably influenced more musicians than any other to get into prog -

We have to understand what it means best prog album of all time. 

It could mean 

1) the most progressive opera, or 

2) the most beautiful progressive opera. 

That is to say, there is a FORMAL aspect of respect for those canons that make "progressive" some rock music, and there is an AESTHETIC aspect that relates to the beauty of music, and that is transverse, not only about Progressive, but all kinds of music. 

We must talk about what is art.

What did Lukacs say about Emile Zola, "naturalist" writer?

Naturalism is a precise type of literature, which had as a program that of transforming the novel into a scientific experiment, where the characters moved according to the environmental Conditionings and Genetic, that is, according to Darwin's theory. Scientific positivism was the soul of naturalism, and therefore Zola was striving to narrate a story in a completely objective way, as a scientist, without putting any romance, without representing any hero but only people who corresponded to the average Statistics. 

Well, what did Lukacs say about Zola? He said that his naturalist art, so conceived, limited the beauty of many of his works (the desire to respect certain formal canons limits the aesthetic beauty) but fortunately Zola often, unintentionally, broke the canons of naturalism, and dashed his Characters not in a goal but romantic, getting involved, and precisely for these violations of the canons of naturalism he has achieved great results as a writer or he has written very beautiful novels. 

Behold, I believe that this applies to every art, including prog: the most progressive work, the one that respects every canons of progressive rock (changes of rhythm, long songs in suite style, instrumental solos etc.) will hardly be the most aesthetically Beautiful. It will be the most "proggy". But the most ingenious, original, inspired, in all likelihood, will be a work that has not been written according to the standards of progressive. 

For example, every albums that you have quoted is very proggy. Classic prog. Are they the best prog albums of all times? I would answer No (but Pawn Hearts, in my opinion, could be candidate, together with In The Court of...). Instead, I believe they represent in a perfect way the canons of prog.

In particular, "Close to the Edge" is a very representative work of progressive, it respects all the canons and the patterns of prog, it's perfectly proggy, but in my opinion it is aesthetically much less beautiful than a work like "Rock Bottom", which none of us would take as a perfect example of progressive work. 

Bruford's drumming on the album is under-appreciated in my opinion, it is some of his very best work!  

I saw them on the Yessongs tour, Sept 22, 1972.   I was expecting to hear the AM radio hit "America" and hadn't heard a single song off of CTTE, so imagine my surprise!!  They played like the devil was chasing them.  

There are many worthy albums to mention (Foxtrot, SEBTP, etc.) but they all have some minor weak point or slow song....CTTE had none.  

In the court of... is also a contender. Five great songs, unfortunately moonchild's 9min jammin section gets sometimes a little boring. Same problem with providence in Red. Maybe Larks then?

Camel - Mirage?

As you said, CTTE checks all the categories and could be the one :)

 true

I so wanna troll this topic, but I won't (though struggling )

Conventional compared to Magma maybe. 

It could also mean the most popular album, in terms of sales -- in which case Pink Floyd's DSOTM would win.

I like a challenge when listening to an album. "Relayer" is definitely more challenging to listen to than "Close to the Edge".

now "Pawn Hearts" - that is an album I could agree upon. but many don't like it, or VdGG in general. which is one of the reasons I could agree upon it. the best works of art are often controversial.

So I have to eliminate Brain Salad Surgery (damn that weak Karn Evil 9 track) and go for CTTE.

Anderson, Wakeman, Bruford , Squire and Howe were the ultimate prog line up. However Fragile does have higher musical peaks imo just not as consistent.

 

 

Although Tarkus is high on my list of favourite albums, it is not a perfect album because it has "Are You Ready Eddy?" at the end, which is short enough and positioned not to affect the greatness of the album, but it does prevent it from being perfect (as required by the opening post).

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I don't object to "Are Your Ready, Eddy?". To quote Frank Zappa: "Does humor belong in music"? Answer: Yes it does! So I like tracks like "Are You Ready, Eddy?" and the equally disliked "Jeremy Bender".

 

I don't object to the humour (the subject matter). I just don't like the track for whatever reason. And yet I don't have a problem with "Jeremy Bender" (or "Benny The Bouncer" from Brain Salad Surgery).

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I could make sense of this if the question would be something like "what do you think is the ultimate album to represent prog", because my real personal favourites are probably too niche to fit here. The album I rank highest out of the top 100 (that one could maybe call "standard choices") is Discipline. Discipline is not quite as niche as most of my other top choices, but cannot really represent prog, as it takes a distinctly new and different turn in some respects. Out of those that are always named I'd probably choose Thick As A Brick, which is probably the most homogeneous of them all (contested by Dark Side of the Moon). Close to the Edge is not a bad choice for this kind of question, it just showcases so many essential elements in a good and at times spectacular way... except that this comes with a certain "showing off" factor that stops me from ranking it in the top spots of my personal list.

Thick as a Brick and Discipline would probably make a wonderful pair of best albums to represent prog, or let's say the prog I like, the "mainstream prog" that is. (I'm not bringing up Czukay, Talk Talk or Cardiacs here.)

By the way, I don't think "no weak track" is a good criterion, because an album that I really love takes risks and surprises, and I will forgive the odd step that seems wrong to me. As it happens, though, TAAB and Discipline have no such steps.

It's weird because some of my favourite bands don't have perfect albums, there's always a song or two that are just short of the brilliancy of the rest - Caravan's In the Land of Grey and Pink could be perfect, but has that short little nuisance in the middle. Soft Machine's Third could be perfect, but Facelift is more noise than song, and it seems like filler right at the start. Zappa's albums in general are a mixed bag, despite his genius - and even Joe's Garage, which is flawless in its three acts, is not really representative enough of prog rockery, too much on the fringes, to be considered best of all time. Same with Christian Vander and his vulcanic piece of genius called Lava, I mean, Magma. I feel the title of the best prog of all time, the one you would choose to show someone, can only come from Britain.

Having said that I don't think we should choose obvious choices like Pink Floyd's Dark Side or The Wall, or Genesis, or KC or even ELP. For me the best representative of prog rock has to be one that is both iconic, but yet not mega popular, as I think that a certain snobbery, that 'hidden gem', not for everyone, quality is part of what prog rock was, is and always will be.

So for me it's a tough choice between Camel's The Snow Goose and Acquiring the Taste by Gentle Giant. They are both perfect albums. But I'd go with Camel because it's just so iconic of a perfect sound - whereas GG is more oddball.

maybe Giant for a Day?

In the Hot Seat? 

handwrist wrote: So for me it's a tough choice between Camel's The Snow Goose and Acquiring the Taste by Gentle Giant. They are both perfect albums. But I'd go with Camel because it's just so iconic of a perfect sound - whereas GG is more oddball.

The one flaw for me with Snow Goose is that it doesn't really excite me the way my favorite music does (and not like Mirage). I like it quite a lot and enjoy playing it every once in a while but I wouldn't give it more than four stars. If I had to choose between those two I'd go for the oddball. Oddball is good.

YES!!!! THat's it! Giant for a Day is the best album of all eternity!!!!!!

I actually do like the album a lot more than most proggers :)

Good point. It might be because we are in the digital age and the first time I've listened to the album I actually got to Facelift last, instead of being the starter. That may have skewed my perception of it. It does have a slow start, but I might have been too harsh.

I do find TSG exciting though, even though I can understand why you would say the opposite. It is a very specific album with a specific 'world' - but to me that just makes it so iconic of proggery. It's a one off thing. A bit like ELP's version of Jerusalem, only this type of music can take something and turn it into something beautiful, daring and magical.

Snow Goose, as someone pointed out, or maybe Soft's, or perhaps Fish Out Of Water, or ... let me think -  a double album with orchestra  (not that many, pick one) - NO, it has to be:

GODBLUFF !!!

The "best" Prog LP is going to be one a majority can agree on: Close To The Edge works for me.

But my "favorite" Prog LP's rarely appear on any list...

Obviously you have your taste but for me it's just Anderson being Anderson. All about cosmic and spiritual love and not really about 'boring' common of garden human love.

I would also argue that it gives the album a bit of balance and in any case it just wouldn't be Yes without it.

I'm not convinced that anything is really a masterpiece if you let taste get in the way. I mean I hate improvised tracks but I still reckon that Red is one of the best albums ever ( only behind Brain Salad Surgery and CTTE in my list) even if Providence is a hard sell to me personally. Can taste really decide these things? Sometimes applying an intellectual criteria is a better approach.

Impossible to pick/decide/agree on.  But it definitely would NOT be CTTE for me, it's way too messy for my ears.

3 I would nominate:

IQ - Road Of Bones - totally brilliant and not a duff track across the double CD version.

or

Ayreon - The Human Equation - my favourite album of all time, still thrills me whenever I listen to it

or

Dream Theater - Images And Words - a prog metal masterpiece from start to finish

Yep definitely a contender. Probably I'm a bit late to the VDGG party but this is certainly a massive album. The PA top ten is close to bang on when I step back from my personal taste.

with you to a certain extent on IQ although the second disc is more powerful to my ears.

Ayreon - don't really know enough to have an opinion. I think I have this somewhere in my CD library.

Dream Theater - the electronic drums hurt my ears which is why I prefer Awake from that era although A Change Of Seasons is my favourite DT album.

I prophesy disaster wrote: Although Tarkus is high on my list of favourite albums, it is not a perfect album because it has "Are You Ready Eddy?" at the end, which is short enough and positioned not to affect the greatness of the album, but it does prevent it from being perfect (as required by the opening post).

The OP asks for "best" album with no bad tracks.   Best is not the same as perfect.   In fact best is often imperfect, e.g. the White Album, Led Zeppelin ll, Trespass, Electric Ladyland, The Yes Album, Tarkus, etc.

Rites At Dawn.....one of my favorite prog albums......

but like some one else said farther down the thread..there is no such thing as one greatest album......

I will always go with ITCOTCK...for many reasons but I'm not sure it's the 'greatest'.

 

Actually, I equated no bad tracks with perfect. A best album does not need to be perfect, but a perfect album needs to have no bad tracks. However, I do recognise that imperfection does not necessarily take the form of a bad track, but can be a perceived defect within an otherwise good track.

 

 

 

 

9:Is

8:No

7:Best

6:Prog

5:Album

4:Of

3:All

2:Time

1: Foxtrot

Hehe

I don't think the Mona Lisa is the most perfect painting, just the most famous.

Otherwise my all time winners would be:

 

Dun - Eros

Hendrix - Band Of Gypsys (not prog)

Maxophone - S/T

Orphaned Land - Sahara

I think of Foxtrot without the first track and the very ending. I may think of Gentle Giant's Debut album or their Three Friends or TPATG. 

Spring and Fantasy made excellent debut albums. Cressida's Asylum is among my favourites, very vivid keyboards. 

GG's Three Friends is probably the one. 

Good shout for Maxophone, an album that has your habitually feisty rodent reduced to tears

Maxophone is awesome.

miamiscot wrote: My vote is (and always will be) for Tales From Topographic Oceans. Hardcore Yes. Haters be damned!!!

The original "Tales from Topographic Oceans" is great. But the remastering is a catastrophe.

The correct answer is Mother Gong's "Fairy Tales".

I didn't care for the Steve Wilson version for some reason. I'm not sure which one you are referring to though but if it's the SW one I agree.

^ yep are we talking 'remix' or 'remaster'?

Anyway Gates Of Delirium pissed on everything else Yes had done to that point imo. Pity the whole album wasn't as good although Sound Chaser at least showed a band that was still trying to progress.

TFTO has some good parts but it just goes to sleep at times. The idea of it is so much greater than the actual reality.

In terms of technical skill and musical prowess, I absolutely agree that GoD is the pinnacle of Yes tracks up to that point.

In terms of impact on progressive rock as a whole, Close to The Edge still holds that crown IMHO.