Is Dark Side of The Moon Overrated?
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Topic: Is Dark Side of The Moon Overrated?
Posted By: Frenetic Zetetic
Subject: Is Dark Side of The Moon Overrated?
Date Posted: March 18 2018 at 02:23
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The recent Foxtrot thread brought this to mind last evening. This is one album (DSoTM) that just never, ever clicked with me - even before I delved seriously into prog. I'd heard songs like Money etc on the radio and thought they were good songs, but compared to what the rest of Pink Floyd has to offer, this album almost feels like a commercial (maybe literally?) break. Animals and WYWH are my two favorites, so maybe that says something. The songwriting seems to be intentionally written in a diluted way. It feels incomplete, even on repeated listens. I feel like I'm dealing with the Wal Mart special of PF albums. This is not a troll attempt to get nuclear heat; I want genuine opinions and analysis. None of this "Lol you have cloth ears I know 320402342 reasons why you're wrong", and then people don't back up their words/disappear  .GO! ------------- "I am so prog, I listen to concept albums on shuffle." -KMac2021 |
Replies:
Posted By: Atavachron
Date Posted: March 18 2018 at 02:27
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Of course it's overrated. ------------- "Too often we enjoy the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought." -- John F. Kennedy |
Posted By: Frenetic Zetetic
Date Posted: March 18 2018 at 02:32
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The one redeeming factor for me is that it at least segues people into more progressive music, that might otherwise have not shifted that way. Entry level progressive rock IMHO. It's impossible for me to see this album as anything other than what mall kids ages 15-19 think they should be showing people they listen to.
------------- "I am so prog, I listen to concept albums on shuffle." -KMac2021 |
Posted By: Cristi
Date Posted: March 18 2018 at 02:35
| No |
Posted By: Frenetic Zetetic
Date Posted: March 18 2018 at 02:36
WHY? ------------- "I am so prog, I listen to concept albums on shuffle." -KMac2021 |
Cristi wrote:Posted By: Atavachron
Date Posted: March 18 2018 at 02:38
Mmyyyeaaah but so did WYWH and especially The Wall, in many ways both better albums. I do give them credit for making that sh*t up practically from whole cloth. ------------- "Too often we enjoy the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought." -- John F. Kennedy |
Posted By: Frenetic Zetetic
Date Posted: March 18 2018 at 02:41
The Wall is another one that fell short for me personally. ------------- "I am so prog, I listen to concept albums on shuffle." -KMac2021 |
Posted By: Atavachron
Date Posted: March 18 2018 at 02:44
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You can't fall short with The Wall. But yeah I run hot & cold with it, a lot of show there. Good theater though, like Oliver on a bad trip. ------------- "Too often we enjoy the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought." -- John F. Kennedy |
Posted By: Frenetic Zetetic
Date Posted: March 18 2018 at 02:47
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I'm willing to re-listen to it several more times with an honest ear. ------------- "I am so prog, I listen to concept albums on shuffle." -KMac2021 |
Posted By: ProgMetaller2112
Date Posted: March 18 2018 at 02:51
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It's great but I have to say yeah ------------- War is peace. Freedom is slavery. Ignorance is strength. ― George Orwell, Nineteen Eighty-Four "Ignorance and Prejudice and Fear walk Hand in Hand"- Neil Peart |
Posted By: Frenetic Zetetic
Date Posted: March 18 2018 at 02:54
I should have made this a poll  .------------- "I am so prog, I listen to concept albums on shuffle." -KMac2021 |
Posted By: ProgMetaller2112
Date Posted: March 18 2018 at 03:00
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Lol ------------- War is peace. Freedom is slavery. Ignorance is strength. ― George Orwell, Nineteen Eighty-Four "Ignorance and Prejudice and Fear walk Hand in Hand"- Neil Peart |
Posted By: Mortte
Date Posted: March 18 2018 at 03:04
| No. I just put my agreements about why DSoTM is very great and important album into that Foxtrot-thread so I donīt repeat myself. I think if some Floyd album is overrated, it is WYWH. Really nothing new after DSoTM. Anyway I like it too, also I think it was their therapy-album, after done that they could make Animals much greater. Also really love, how music, lyrics & cover in it are all the same, great entity. Have to say what my experience here has been, the Wall is underrated. Although Tommy & Lamb are greater, really think Rog succeeded to make very great entity of it, also really love the movie. Itīs a great story, also lot of great music in it. |
Posted By: Mortte
Date Posted: March 18 2018 at 03:13
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Hereīs my comment from the foxtrot-thread (second time trying): No. DSoTM has never been overrated, although it hasnīt been a long time my favourite Floyd-album. Hell, it just took so much forward recording technology, also I think itīs one of the predecessors of ambient and electromusic. Can you say any album that is like that what itīs made before it?
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Posted By: Frenetic Zetetic
Date Posted: March 18 2018 at 03:14
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^And I answered with: Interesting perspective, and one I hold almost a diametrical opinion of. Prog or not, I prefer Invisible Touch to We Can't Dance. I don't care for DSoTM due to the tech advances. They are there, no denying. It's the songs themselves that don't gel with me. Recording tech is irrelevant to the the songwriting, and vice versa for me.
------------- "I am so prog, I listen to concept albums on shuffle." -KMac2021 |
Posted By: Cristi
Date Posted: March 18 2018 at 03:18
I think it deserves all the appreciation and praise it gets. It's very well put together both lyrically and musically. It's got a great flow. It blew my mind when I first listened to it when I was a high school kid, long long time ago and I still have fun listening to it today.
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Posted By: Mortte
Date Posted: March 18 2018 at 03:24
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Put this here too: Also, about songs, I think Breathe, Time, Money, Us & Them, Brain Damage and even Eclipse are much better songs than the most in WYWH, only Welcome to Machine rises into same quality as those DSoTM-songs. Just my opinion.
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Posted By: Mortte
Date Posted: March 18 2018 at 03:25
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And this: Like a lot also a Great Gig In the Sky. Also, if you need another perspective to DSoTM, I really recommend the early live recording of it, there are totally different versions of On the Run and Great Gig.
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Posted By: Hercules
Date Posted: March 18 2018 at 03:26
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No, it's not. It's not that all the songs are great, though Time, Breathe and several others are. It's the way it flows, the concept behind it and the whole listening experience that makes it a truly great album. Is it the best prog album ever? Of course not, at least not in terms of the music. But it's also accessible to non-prog fans, which is why everyone I know has at least one copy, and it's introduced a lot of people to other prog bands. ------------- A TVR is not a car. It's a way of life. |
Posted By: Hercules
Date Posted: March 18 2018 at 03:32
Agreed. (I put a longer, more detailed reply but that F*****G Captcha refused to post it. WILL ADMIN REMOVE IT, PLEASE!!!!!!!! ------------- A TVR is not a car. It's a way of life. |
Posted By: Mortte
Date Posted: March 18 2018 at 04:03
| ^I am afraid they canīt do that. Do as I do and copy your post before push Post reply-button. |
Posted By: Nogbad_The_Bad
Date Posted: March 18 2018 at 07:17
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It was pretty ground breaking for its time, its got balance and a great flow, it's biggest flaw is probably just overplay making it way too familiar. Personally I'd pick Animals & WYWH ahead of it but its hard to argue against it's merits. ------------- Ian Host of the Post-Avant Jazzcore Happy Hour on Progrock.com https://podcasts.progrock.com/post-avant-jazzcore-happy-hour/ |
Posted By: twosteves
Date Posted: March 18 2018 at 07:44
overrated indeed---but still good---lot's of easy listening on it which could explain its worldwide popularity---it became this magical record---a good title didn't hurt---and a worldwide phenomenon where if you didn't;t buy it and listen to it---you weren't normal or cool. I didn't care about being normal but I did want to be cool so I bought it it's a very good album --do I listen to it often--no---Pink Floyd made "prog" that was universally accepted by everyone and this album did that tenfold.
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Posted By: siLLy puPPy
Date Posted: March 18 2018 at 07:56
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Overrated, no. Overplayed, maybe. Songs like "Money" have definately been played to death, however this is an album that transcends generations and is instantly loveable by anyone who hears it for the first time. In that regard, DARK SIDE is a gateway drug to the greater prog universe and that can not be a bad thing. I purposefully do not listen to this one on my own because i know it will be playing somewhere out of my control. Despite it's popularity, it is an awesomely brilliant album. -------------  https://rateyourmusic.com/~siLLy_puPPy |
Posted By: progbethyname
Date Posted: March 18 2018 at 07:56
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Not overrated in the slightest. This album, in my opinion, has it all. It is extremely special and unique, especially for the time it was made...1973? Are you kidding?! It is amazing. Alan Parsons deserves to be commended for his tape splicing and sound samples. That f**king sh*t takes days man!! ------------- Gimmie my headphones now!!! 🎧🤣 |
Posted By: Quinino
Date Posted: March 18 2018 at 08:11
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Certainly not - great artistic achievement in popular music still highly enjoyable after, what?, more than 40 years !!!! Try to beat that ... |
Posted By: progmatic
Date Posted: March 18 2018 at 08:50
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NO. ------------- PROGMATIC |
Posted By: BrufordFreak
Date Posted: March 18 2018 at 09:02
This^, as it was for me. I do, however, uphold two significant things DSoTM achieved for me that were relatively groundbreaking and have stood the test of time: the pristine sound engineering and the way songs all bleed one into the next giving it a seemless flow-through feel that I had not felt before (especially Side One and the second 2/3 of Side Two.) Also, some of the song sounds were, for me, quite revolutionary: the "On the Run" running, explosion, and dragon toms sequence; Clare Torrey's vocalise on "Great Gig" and the synthesizer-guitar interplay on "Any Colour You Like." Plus, that spoken quote at the end of "Eclipse" is immortal. The fact that this album holds the all-time record for the most weeks spent in the Billboard album charts in the US illustrates your point above: that this album sucked a lot of teenagers into the prog scene; it acted as a gateway drug for many future prog lovers (as did many more watered down, more accessible early releases like In The Court of The Crimson King, Third, In the Land of Pink and Grey, Demons and Wizards, Per un amico, and Crime of The Century. I find it hard to imagine prog virgins getting sucked into an addiction by Zappa, Nucleus, Matching Mole, Banco, or Close to the Edge. ------------- Drew Fisher https://progisaliveandwell.blogspot.com/ |
Posted By: BrufordFreak
Date Posted: March 18 2018 at 09:03
This^, as it was for me. I do, however, uphold two significant things DSoTM achieved for me that were relatively groundbreaking and have stood the test of time: the pristine sound engineering and the way songs all bleed one into the next giving it a seemless flow-through feel that I had not felt before (especially Side One and the second 2/3 of Side Two.) Also, some of the song sounds were, for me, quite revolutionary: the "On the Run" running, explosion, and dragon toms sequence; Clare Torrey's vocalise on "Great Gig" and the synthesizer-guitar interplay on "Any Colour You Like." Plus, that spoken quote at the end of "Eclipse" is immortal. The fact that this album holds the all-time record for the most weeks spent in the Billboard album charts in the US illustrates your point above: that this album sucked a lot of teenagers into the prog scene; it acted as a gateway drug for many future prog lovers (as did many more watered down, more accessible early releases like In The Court of The Crimson King, Third, In the Land of Pink and Grey, Demons and Wizards, Per un amico, and Crime of The Century. I find it hard to imagine prog virgins getting sucked into an addiction by Zappa, Nucleus, Matching Mole, Banco, or Close to the Edge. ------------- Drew Fisher https://progisaliveandwell.blogspot.com/ |
Posted By: HackettFan
Date Posted: March 18 2018 at 09:39
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Nice album, but all I care for is Time and Money. Time is frickin excellent. The rest doesnt do much for me, quite boring really. I still dont see what made that albums brand of a avant-garde more widely adorable than Umma Gumma, or how it is somehow less boring than Atom Heart Mother, which I think is underrated by its own creators. I prefer Umma Gumma, Saucerful of Secrets, Meddle and Wish You Were Here over DSOTM. I do like DSOTM better than The Wall. ------------- A curse upon the heads of those who seek their fortunes in a lie. The truth is always waiting when there's nothing left to try. - Colin Henson, Jade Warrior (Now) |
Posted By: MortSahlFan
Date Posted: March 18 2018 at 09:42
| Underrated |
Posted By: Manuel
Date Posted: March 18 2018 at 09:44
Exactly my thoughts. That album was ground braking back in the day, and was deemed as futuristic by many people, but overplay has killed most of it's merits over the years.
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Posted By: HackettFan
Date Posted: March 18 2018 at 09:50
I do think DSOTM had a well-deserved reputation for quality recording. Whenever people spent oo goodles of money on a seriously high quality stereo system, I think they could generally think of no better way to test it out or christen it than with a newly purchased Dark Side of the Moon album. And who wants a DSOTM album with a scratch. Best to just buy a new one. ------------- A curse upon the heads of those who seek their fortunes in a lie. The truth is always waiting when there's nothing left to try. - Colin Henson, Jade Warrior (Now) |
Posted By: The Dark Elf
Date Posted: March 18 2018 at 10:48
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No, it is not "overrated" -- I don't really see how anyone could make the claim. It is universally lauded as one of the greatest albums of all-time by critics, and evidently the general public feels the same, having kept it on the bestseller charts from 1973 to 1988, and it has returned to the charts every time it was re-released in a different format. In addition, it is one of the few albums where lovers of disparate forms of music generally agree on its excellence. Long after "prog" had its fifteen minutes of fame in the 70s, DSotM retained its value, and the album remains in the collections of hard-rockers, metal-heads, psychedelia-lovers, punks and progolydytes. Even the album cover is iconic, perhaps the most recognizable design this side of the Rolling Stone's lips and tongue. The prism design is omnipresent throughout the world.
It would seem you lack context in regards to the composition. A provisional title of the album was early on Dark Side of the Moon: A Piece for Assorted Lunatics, and each song deals with an aspect of madness, and the album itself is one of the best "concepts" ever released. The album itself is seamless, one song floating into another, and as far as you considering the songs as somehow "incomplete", as a composer and lyricist, I have no idea what you are getting at. DSotM is complete as far as I'm concerned, and it is the reason we even still speak of Pink Floyd in such expansive terms -- their fame rests on this album, no matter if you get an erection for later albums like WYWH or Animals. The Floyd albums previous to DSotM are generally meandering and often pointless digressions into psych trippiness. Their releases up to this point are hit-and-miss for the most part. Even a genuinely good album like Meddle has obvious head-scratching filler (for every "Echoes" or "One of These Days", there is a "Seamus" or "San Tropez"). But DSotM is the most cohesive of Floyd albums, and the great Wish You Were Here (whether you like it more or not) is really a continuation of DSotM's conceptualization, seamlessness and compositional style. One does not exist without the other, both from an historical or writing/composing perspective.
Again, your lack of context is particularly devoid of any rational perspective. What makes an album "great" in many instances is not only the composition (which I would insist for this album is superb), but also both the aural and visual presentation. When there is a list of great rock albums, we also refer to the the album art (which I mentioned before as iconic), and "how" the album sounded. sh*tty sounding albums, poor production quality and lack of detail is often derided here on ProgArchives when reviewing albums -- because sound matters to us. I remember listening to DSotM in 1973 and was astounded at the quality of the sound from the first play. The moment you heard it, you knew it was special -- and, well...different. Perhaps listeners from a different generation with their ears attuned to digitized marginalization and noise-defeating technologies simply do not comprehend how amazing the sound was (I still recall the alarm clock going off in "Time" -- what a trip). But the sound quality and being able to hear bells, ticking, various road noises, etc. would be just a novelty and soon dismissed if it weren't for how the songs themselves mattered in that time period. The songs themselves struck a "chord" to the listeners of that era. They captured the sentiment of the time (which is relatable to the ongoing popularity of Sabbath -- people literally lived Sabbath back in the day). So, you wore out your orignal vinyl record, fried your 8-track, tried to sync it to The Wizard of Oz and failed, unraveled your cassette, sold your laser disc version at a garage sale when you got it on CD, bought a gold CD, got a remaster, and maybe even bought it SACD or MSFL vinyl. Because it sounds that good. ------------- ...a vigorous circular motion hitherto unknown to the people of this area, but destined to take the place of the mud shark in your mythology... |
Posted By: tboyd1802
Date Posted: March 18 2018 at 12:03
^ ------------- He neither drank, smoked, nor rode a bicycle. Living frugally, saving his money, he died early, surrounded by greedy relatives. It was a great lesson to me -- John Barrymore |
Posted By: JesusisLord
Date Posted: March 18 2018 at 12:48
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From Heartbeat To Heartbeat, Perfect in Every Way ------------- And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord to the glory of God the Father. Phillipians 2:11 |
Posted By: lazland
Date Posted: March 18 2018 at 12:53
I was going to write a lengthy tome on just how silly the premise of the question was, until I saw this, which just about says it all quite eloquently. DSOTM will live as a piece long after we have all shuffled off of this mortal coil. It captured the zeitgeist of the time perfectly. ------------- Enhance your life. Get down to www.lazland.org Now also broadcasting on www.progzilla.com Every Saturday, 4.00 p.m. UK time! |
Posted By: micky
Date Posted: March 18 2018 at 13:04
seems that way doesn't it hahah ------------- The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip |
Posted By: AFlowerKingCrimson
Date Posted: March 18 2018 at 13:46
| Compared to other prog albums? Yes. I look at it this way. Dark side of the moon is certified 15 million platinum(RIAA)(as of 1998)but now has sold more like 22 million at least. Close to the edge according to the RIAA has only gone platinum(one time) as of 1998 and Selling England only gold(again according to the RIAA and as of 1990). Does DSOTM deserve to have sold 15 times as many(if not more)albums as Close to the Edge? I don't think so. In prog circles all are about equal though in terms of influence and popularity so it's only when you step outside ofstrictly prog circles where CTTE and SEBTP are relatively unknown. So over all yeah it's over rated especially when compared to other prog albums like I said(and not just the two examples I gave). |
Posted By: Walkscore
Date Posted: March 18 2018 at 14:01
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DSOTM is special because, in addition to what many others have said (re gateway, sound quality, composition), I think many of us would not be who we are but for this album. For many of us (including myself) it was the album that opened up a world of possibilities for what could be done in music, and it came with a particular kind of political sensibility that few bands other than Floyd could really communicate, at least not as emotionally. While I agree that Close to the Edge and Selling England are on the same plane musically - i.e. equally musical - I think I still would have been the same person if one of those two albums didn't exist. But I might not have 'found music' if it weren't for DSOTM. But of course, I am not sure if the same is true for new listeners so many years on...
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Posted By: Vox201
Date Posted: March 18 2018 at 14:32
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Probably as overrated as Steel Mills Green Eyed God Album from that era was underrated! And in case anyone is interested the album was reissued by Riseabove records in 2013 both in CD and vinyl format. Renamed Jewels of the Forest with some previously unreleased tracks on it. There is also a Steel Mill website steelmill2015.com and a more recent album called Body in the Water check it out!! |
Posted By: Cristi
Date Posted: March 18 2018 at 14:50
what?
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Posted By: Frenetic Zetetic
Date Posted: March 18 2018 at 15:08
At least you took the time to write out your reasoning, instead of being churlish, elitist, and simply telling me "No, your opinion is wrong". Thank you for taking time to articulate your position. You've made some solid points, and I'll have to reconsider the context thing in your second half there  .
Your post is getting to the heart of what I'm trying to convey. I personally do not measure success by record sales; especially prog. Art transcends capitalism/consumerism for me. Hell, it's usually a telling sign if it sells more than a raw prog record, like Close to The Edge. This is the crux of my argument; we have a ton of padding from casual fans boosting this record through sales. There's nothing wrong this this at all; it just stands that if people are going to argue sales, recognize that probably 3/4 of those sales are by people who wouldn't even know/care that PF is a prog band, let alone tell you who recorded CTTE or SEBTP. The magic of DSoTM for me is that it introduced more people to the genre that otherwise wouldn't. It was a nice dip in the prog pool for your average commercial listener. As a result it got more sales, and thus appears to be irrationally heralded as the top of progressive rock by people who probably couldn't even tell you who did CTTE or SEBTP. I find Metallica's self title is overrated as "THE metal album" for this exact same reason. If we accept that precept as a valid metric, than there can be little to no argument if some people prefer musicianship and a bit more complexity as a standard for their prog rock gems, even if their numbers are less than the mainstream audience. It's because of this I keep saying it's overrated. Good views in this thread though, and I'm definitely doing more homework on this one with a different pair of ears. ------------- "I am so prog, I listen to concept albums on shuffle." -KMac2021 |
Posted By: Man With Hat
Date Posted: March 18 2018 at 15:28
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probs ------------- Dig me...But don't...Bury me I'm running still, I shall until, one day, I hope that I'll arrive Warning: Listening to jazz excessively can cause a laxative effect. |
Posted By: Vompatti
Date Posted: March 18 2018 at 15:31
| Maybe as an album it is, but it still makes a pretty decent stereo test disc. |
Posted By: AFlowerKingCrimson
Date Posted: March 18 2018 at 15:33
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[The magic of DSoTM for me is that it introduced more people to the genre that otherwise wouldn't] Yeah probably as long as it's understood that many(if not most)Pink Floyd fans(even those who are really into them and big fans)don't convert to prog fans(hardcore or otherwise). Heck even many Porcupine Tree and Dream Theater fans don't become big prog fans. You have to be an inquisitive person who "wants to hear more of this kind of thing" and go out searching for it(imo).
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Posted By: HackettFan
Date Posted: March 18 2018 at 16:20
------------- A curse upon the heads of those who seek their fortunes in a lie. The truth is always waiting when there's nothing left to try. - Colin Henson, Jade Warrior (Now) |
Posted By: Vox201
Date Posted: March 18 2018 at 17:09
| If you dont know this album by UK prog rock band Steel Mill I would suggest that your knowledge of prog rock is incomplete. You are probably also not aware of their cult following and the fact that one of the original Green eyed god albums sold for over $2000 on eBay a few years ago. |
Posted By: Upbeat Tango Monday
Date Posted: March 18 2018 at 17:23
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Of course it's overrated, I mean, it's one of the most commercially successful albums after all, but it's not bad "per se". Now, commercial success is linked to demographics. Justin Bieber or Britney Spears are for early teens, young men like something in the vein of Red Hot Chilli Peppers or Soundgarden, for instance... I see DSOTM as a sort of Jack of all trades, and it covers all demographics. It's a pretty safe record for that reason: no excesses, songs that are not too long, not too short, a sound that is not too soft, nor too heavy. It's an all-encompassing album that's never boring, but never frenetic. Nothing about it is divisive...and that's the main issue: it lacks balls, it lacks passion, it lacks the qualities a classic should have. It was made to reach every single being in a way record companies never thought possible. I think real masterworks are made of pure quality, belong to a genre and are divisive (Thick as a Brick, Close to the Edge). That's why, despite selling more than every other prog rock album, it's not a classic in my book: it lacks prog, it lacks rock, it lacks pop...it's stuck in the middle of everything. EDIT and tl;dr: I consider being commercially successful to be something REALLY GOOD. But it's impossible to make a classic that way, because in order to reach the most people you need to make compromises and be tame. What you guys call "sell out". ------------- Two random guys agreed to shake hands. Just Because. They felt like it, you know. It was an agreement of sorts...a random agreement. |
Posted By: maryes
Date Posted: March 18 2018 at 17:43
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IMHO Dark Side of the moon is really overrated First - Because , although deserve figures between the great albuns of all times, I think which even in Pink Floyd discography Meddle is a much better ! Second - Other albums from other bands like YES "Fragile" and "Relayer". Genesis "Foxtrot" and "Nursery Crime", King Crimson "Larks..." and "Starless", Gentle Giant "In a Glass House", Rush "A Farewell TO Kings" and "Hemispheres", E L & Palmer "Brain Sallad Surgery" and "Tarkus", Return to Forever "The Romantic Warior", Frank Zappa "Hot Rats" etc, etc, etc... are very underrated in relation to Dark Side . |
Posted By: Squonk19
Date Posted: March 18 2018 at 17:44
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A classic album - not overrated at all. I overplayed it when I was younger and it tends to be a long time now between plays compared to other classic albums. However, when I do, I realise how good it is. It was the entry point for many people into prog rock and deserves respect enough for that alone. ------------- Living in their pools, they soon forget about the sea. |
Posted By: Frenetic Zetetic
Date Posted: March 18 2018 at 17:46
You and I think similarly on this one, mainly that a classic - especially a progressive rock classic - should be divisive to a certain degree. I personally hear more straight forward rock, albeit well done rock, than progressive rock on DSoTM. Yes, Money is 7/8 and was a radio hit. You're not hearing Meddle here, though. This is also why I love Yes Tales from Topographic Oceans. Yes, it's padded to hell, yes it's overly long, yes it's showy etc. But it never tried to be anything less, and delivers on all cylinders. For better or worse, it was doing something that had never been done. It was progressing. Most people love it or hate it. Very few are on the fence with it. That's a divisive classic for me. I will say, however, I have massive respect for any artist that transcends markets to the degree that this one did. Close to The Edge is still my #1 prog recording.
------------- "I am so prog, I listen to concept albums on shuffle." -KMac2021 |
Posted By: Hrychu
Date Posted: March 18 2018 at 18:04
| Overrated. What's it mean anyway? "I don't like the thing that most people do!" I think it's pointless to say something is "overrated" because it all boils down to opinions. If you disagree with the fact that something gets a lot of praise, you say "oh, it's overrated". |
Posted By: Walkscore
Date Posted: March 18 2018 at 19:42
I love both Selling England and The Lamb. Really musical - musically even more original than DSOTM. Please don't get me wrong. However, I am not sure if there is a political message to The Lamb, or if there is then I am not sure that I understand it. (Perhaps someone could explain it to me?) My point was the DSOTM (and the albums Floyd made afterwards) has a very clear and direct political message that is integrated right into the music/concept in a very direct and emotional way - most can instantly 'get it', and many see it as revealing some underlying truth, and hence assign importance to it for this reason. I think this makes it special - both special as in rare, and special as in the reason it and other post-DSOTM albums are treasured so much. Of course, not everyone will love it and if one is turned off by the message, or not interested in the message, then it won't have the same emotional impact. But I think many who listen to it see the music and message as inseparable and are affected emotionally by it (and other post-DSOTM Floyd) in a way that is rare for other albums/bands, even really excellent musical ones.
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Posted By: Progosopher
Date Posted: March 18 2018 at 20:14
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Every album made is a product of its times. Every one, even the ones people think are ground-breaking right now. A classic is one that delves into the depths of human experience present not only in its own time but for other times as well. DSotM plumbs those depths in a way few albums have, whether they are more technically proficient, or fit better into a particular demographic or genre. Many of the better qualities of the album have already been mentioned - its use of technology, its vision, its flow. It is an album that has to be experienced as a whole, and not as a mere series of songs. This is a dimension missing in much of today's music. People burned out of complete albums because so many albums only had one or two good songs. This happened mainly in the 90s. Flow is an art lost to too many musicians today. And simplicity does not necessarily equal bad music. The Ode to Joy is a simple melody but look what Beethoven did with it. The songs themselves are not complex, but look at the way it all fits together. Much of it is slow and mid-tempo and that is what I think a lot of proggers dislike, but like a David Gilmour guitar solo, the album as a whole is extraordinarily well crafter. No, it is not overrated but it has become possibly too familiar. You still don't have to like it, though. ------------- The world of sound is certainly capable of infinite variety and, were our sense developed, of infinite extensions. -- George Santayana, "The Sense of Beauty" |
Posted By: fredyair
Date Posted: March 18 2018 at 21:54
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Pink Floyd was never a progressive/symphonic rock band in the vein of Yes, Genesis or ELP, it was a more straight forward rock band with the baggage of psychedelia and Art rock, DSOTM is my favorite album of all times, even thought I know that musically and lyrically is not up to par to other Pink Floyd albums or any of the other bands mentioned above. But the total effect of the music, the sound (which is perfect) and the time when I listened to it for the first time makes it something special. Really special. ------------- Long live Progresive music! |
Posted By: Mortte
Date Posted: March 18 2018 at 23:50
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Posted By: Mortte
Date Posted: March 19 2018 at 00:02
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Posted By: tdfloyd
Date Posted: March 19 2018 at 02:30
for the whole review. Got to add that it's my desert island disc. It's got stellar music, stellar sound and a message that runs thru the whole album. There are some that complain that the tracks are too short. I don't understand this as it flows from start to finish. Certainly as better flow than say Supper's Ready, which is a great track. Its as if some would like it better if only it was just two tracks with multiple sections in each. It could easily be listed as such. Another complaint is its boring , which IMHO is just unfathomable. The interplay between the keys and guitars on Money, is exquisite. It's played in 7/8 until you get to the blistering solo. It has been derided as pop music. I want to know what pop station would play Great Gig in the Sky. Dark Side of the Moon, has meaning, the sound effects add depth and understanding without getting in the way. It flows but is never rushed, the music has space so you can relish everything that is going on. It may be the album that got millions into prog but it certainly is not a lower level album. It's not like saying Sally Dick and Jane books got you into reading and you built up to War and Peace. DSOTM is at the top of the pyramid. Yup, I'm one of the guys you described. Bought the LP. Wore it out, bought another. Bought the MFSL LP and didn't play it for 2 years because I was waiting for my brother to get married and I would get my own stereo. I wanted it to be the first LP II played on it. Got the CD and got the MFSL CD. And the Experience Edition CD. It's also live on Pulse. If PF gave me an excuse (maybe extra tracks or live) I would have gotten the one with the prism in stained glass. It's a great cover. Whenever I was looking at new equipment for me or someone else, I would always bring 3 discs. DSOTM, a Barbra Streisand disc for her vocals(though I can't remember the last time I played one of her records for enjoyment), and a great sounding classical album. Did I mention that DSOTM is my fav recording? 
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Posted By: AFlowerKingCrimson
Date Posted: March 19 2018 at 04:33
True but even "In the court of the Crimson King" and "Red," "Selling England by the Pound,""Close to the Edge," and "Thick as a Brick" are also despite being a few of the biggest(as in highly acclaimed) non DSOTM prog albums. [But itīs not just Pink Floyd that was big seller in the seventies, right behind them become Genesis, Yes, ELP & King Crimson, many of those bands you mentioned.] Maybe it kind of depends on where you live but in the seventies(and even more so now)I think there was a pretty big gap popularity wise between all those bands and Pink Floyd. Maybe not before DSOTM but certainly afterwards. Genesis didn't have much more than a strong cult following back then(at least in the US)and didn't get really big until the eighties. Their first gold album was ATTWT. As for King Crimson well they might be household names in prog circles but really not much anywhere else. To suggest they were(as well as Genesis)just behind PF in terms of popularity is pretty silly.
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Posted By: Mortte
Date Posted: March 19 2018 at 05:51
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^According to BBC-document of top ten progressive rock the most popular progbands have been in order: 1. Pink Floyd 2. Genesis 3. Moody Blues 4. Jethro Tull 5. Yes 6. ELP 7. Rush 8. Hawkwind 9. King Crimson 10. Camel. I think youīre right the popularity of Genesis become really much their eighties success. But anyway King Crimson is ninth, over Camel. And I donīt believe itīs popularity is just explained of after seventies success, because they never have been even near as big as Genesis after seventies.
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Posted By: SteveG
Date Posted: March 19 2018 at 06:27
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Hmm...at the time of it's release I would say no. In retrospect yes. ------------- This message was brought to you by a proud supporter of the Deep State. |
Posted By: progaardvark
Date Posted: March 19 2018 at 08:01
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I sometimes wonder that if this album were packaged as two side-long tracks, would that dispel the "commercial" argument I see so often? ------------- ---------- i'm shopping for a new oil-cured sinus bag that's a happy bag of lettuce this car smells like cartilage nothing beats a good video about fractions |
Posted By: dr wu23
Date Posted: March 19 2018 at 08:10
^This....all so-called great albums are a bit overated. ------------- One does nothing yet nothing is left undone. Haquin |
Posted By: miamiscot
Date Posted: March 19 2018 at 08:14
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Yes, it is. Although a great LP, their next two were far superior to it. 9/10
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Posted By: SteveG
Date Posted: March 19 2018 at 08:15
------------- This message was brought to you by a proud supporter of the Deep State. |
Posted By: dr wu23
Date Posted: March 19 2018 at 08:25
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Well...it is commercial and pop in the sense that two radio friendly singles were pulled from it and the public knows it well on that level.......not something that happens to most prog albums. That doesn't diminish it but it is what it is. ------------- One does nothing yet nothing is left undone. Haquin |
Posted By: SteveG
Date Posted: March 19 2018 at 08:27
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^ True Doc. I recall that my 6 yr old grandson went nuts the first time he heard "Money" played from my stereo! ------------- This message was brought to you by a proud supporter of the Deep State. |
Posted By: richardh
Date Posted: March 19 2018 at 10:43
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For me its like this DSOTM was the greatest piece of marketing in rock history. Fantastic album cover and spending a whole year on it was genius. Not because it made it better but because you can just say you did. BUT even as a sceptic it still has 4 great PF songs - Us and Them , Time , Breathe and Great Gig In The Sky. Those 4 songs make it worthwhile but ultimately they went on to do better albums with the next couple , both of which are correctly rated amongst the best prog albums. IMO
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Posted By: SteveG
Date Posted: March 19 2018 at 10:46
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Hmm..for some reason that cover was so much more impressive when it first hit the public. Maybe it was just the water pipe talking. ------------- This message was brought to you by a proud supporter of the Deep State. |
Posted By: Mortte
Date Posted: March 19 2018 at 11:39
| I believe I just canīt ever understand that opinion, which seem to be very common here, that WYWH is better than DSoTM. If somebody has still interest, I really liked to know the arguments why somebodyīs thinking itīs better. What they do better in WYWH than DSoTM? And donīt say better songs, Iīve heard that and disagree. |
Posted By: wiz_d_kidd
Date Posted: March 19 2018 at 12:09
Anyone who says that DSOTM is over-rated has "been mad for f**king years. Absolutely years". I feel sorry that they missed out enjoying the best album ever created. To heck with opinionated "ratings", the following "facts" tell the story...
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Posted By: wiz_d_kidd
Date Posted: March 19 2018 at 12:13
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Oh yeah, forgot to add that... 45 million copies sold over 45 years is equivalent to: 2740 albums sold... every DAY... for 45 f**king years straight! |
Posted By: Larkstongue41
Date Posted: March 19 2018 at 12:30
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^ That's exactly why some people argue that it is overrated. Not because it is of low quality (it is not) but because it has the status of the greatest rock album ever made.
------------- "Larks' tongues. Wrens' livers. Chaffinch brains. Jaguars' earlobes. Wolf nipple chips. Get 'em while they're hot. They're lovely. Dromedary pretzels, only half a denar." |
Posted By: SteveG
Date Posted: March 19 2018 at 12:57
------------- This message was brought to you by a proud supporter of the Deep State. |
Posted By: AFlowerKingCrimson
Date Posted: March 19 2018 at 13:09
Well, that says BBC so obviously it's British based. I'm in the US so I can only speak from that perspective and knowledge. Yes at number 5? Not in the US. They would probably be number two and they certainly would not be behind Genesis in the seventies. Genesis were much bigger in the UK than they were in the US in the seventies but according to some English people I spoke to they still didn't get really big until they focused on singles so probably late seventies early eighties. However, despite what this english woman said they still had albums in the top ten album charts in the seventies in the UK where as in the US their first top ten album was either Abacab or Duke and first gold was ATTWT. Genesis not nearly as big as Pink Floyd in the eighties? I strongly disagree. I would say Genesis were not as big as Pink Floyd over all not even in that decade. They might have sold more albums in that decade but their over all popularity would still be lagging behind.
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Posted By: AFlowerKingCrimson
Date Posted: March 19 2018 at 13:16
Yep, similar to how myself and many others consider the Beatles to be over rated.
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Posted By: ProgMetaller2112
Date Posted: March 19 2018 at 14:21
The Beatles ain't overrated ------------- War is peace. Freedom is slavery. Ignorance is strength. ― George Orwell, Nineteen Eighty-Four "Ignorance and Prejudice and Fear walk Hand in Hand"- Neil Peart |
Posted By: Barbu
Date Posted: March 19 2018 at 14:33
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Overrated, why not? ------------- |
Posted By: AFlowerKingCrimson
Date Posted: March 19 2018 at 15:58
Ain't?
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Posted By: grantman
Date Posted: March 19 2018 at 16:19
| no there is nothing in rock music to compare to |
Posted By: Frenetic Zetetic
Date Posted: March 19 2018 at 17:04
Exactly. Wow, this thread blew up! ------------- "I am so prog, I listen to concept albums on shuffle." -KMac2021 |
Posted By: ProgMetaller2112
Date Posted: March 19 2018 at 17:20
Yes, they were very innovative. A band very influential on Prog ------------- War is peace. Freedom is slavery. Ignorance is strength. ― George Orwell, Nineteen Eighty-Four "Ignorance and Prejudice and Fear walk Hand in Hand"- Neil Peart |
Posted By: Barbu
Date Posted: March 19 2018 at 19:03
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^ QFT ------------- |
Posted By: Upbeat Tango Monday
Date Posted: March 19 2018 at 19:07
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Beach Boys released Pet Sounds back in 1966. The Beatles, Sgt. Pepper in 1967. Those albums were the gold standard, and the shape of things to come. When Floyd released DSOTM, we already had many KC records including one of the cornerstones of prog: ITCOTCK; every yes album up to (and including) Close to the Edge, we had Thick as a Brick and freaking Tarkus among other fantastic records (including some of Floyd's own) that were much ballsier. To say DSOTM was groundbreaking is absolute rubbish. It was a calculated effort, a formula: how to reach the most people without alienating listeners. Playing safe and being sterile on all fronts. Later came WYWH. A record that was 1/2 about trying to remember old Floyd and Syd, the other half was about DSOTM, their own Frankenstein: "we heard about the sell out" Hey, long time fan, we love and miss Syd's Floyd, yeah, too bad he's now an empty shell. Nothing we can do about it. Btw, there are some dudes wearing suits that push us around. But we are fighting, we aren't releasing a new DSOTM for the non-fans that loved it, we are still the same old band, look we even made some longer, proggier tracks this time just for you... like the ones on Meddle and AHM (the best we could do after Syd was no more). Just my two cents. ------------- Two random guys agreed to shake hands. Just Because. They felt like it, you know. It was an agreement of sorts...a random agreement. |
Posted By: Pigwheeler
Date Posted: March 19 2018 at 21:20
| To call it anything other than overrated would be a big mistake |
Posted By: Dellinger
Date Posted: March 19 2018 at 22:07
What other reason could I have to say I like Wish you were Here better than Dark Side than that I like the songs better? (I won't say that the album, or the songs are better, only that I like them better). Yeah, in concept and collection of songs Dark Side works better than Wish, but for me it's more important how much I enjoy the music. And a great part of the weight for that is that Shine On (as a whole thing) is my favourite song ever... and then the way it flows into Welcome to the Machine (which I also love) is just dream-like... as well as the way the title song flows into Shine On again. In the end, I just love that album, and for me it's not only my favourite Pink Floyd album, but my favourite album, period. |
Posted By: Mortte
Date Posted: March 19 2018 at 23:48
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Posted By: Mortte
Date Posted: March 19 2018 at 23:55
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Posted By: Mortte
Date Posted: March 20 2018 at 00:02
If you want to watch that document, here it is, itīs quite entertaining, also some small document about those bands: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mUU1QtQBVbo
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Posted By: Mortte
Date Posted: March 20 2018 at 00:04
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Posted By: Mortte
Date Posted: March 20 2018 at 00:07
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Posted By: Frenetic Zetetic
Date Posted: March 20 2018 at 02:23
Absolute rubbish is a bit harsh IMHO, but you're bringing up more of my points here. Calculated, etc. There's nothing wrong with this. My side of the coin is that doesn't make a good progressive rock record. It makes a prog-lite record IMHO. It doesn't hold a candle to what I consider transcendental prog pieces like Close to The Edge or Supper's Ready. It's like people declaring Cher the best vocalist because she sells the most records and is most popular with the average listener. If the average listener getting into this music is a metric, then a prerequisite would logically have to be less intense, dynamic songs. This is exactly what I hear besides the track "Money". Slow-paced, droney-ass prog lite getting praised as the second coming of Christ.
That's the problem, though; it's not just an elitist, contrarian opinion. I hear this record and I just don't understand how people hold it in such high regard, especially compared to more epic stuff like Close to The Edge or Supper's Ready. Most people can't deal with 15+ min songs, and I think that's why this record hit a sweet spot commercially. As a serious prog fan, it's not my cup of tea, just like the former songs listed won't do diddly for someone looking for more commercial stuff. ------------- "I am so prog, I listen to concept albums on shuffle." -KMac2021 |
Posted By: Mortte
Date Posted: March 20 2018 at 03:10
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^What I never do, is thinking is some record good prog record or not. To me there is just great music, good music and bad music. So it seems the most problem you is, that when DSoTM is said progrecord, you are hurt. I really donīt understand what you find WYWH? More it has to me kind of "Dire Straits"-qualities you and that tango guy is putting into Dark Side. Also comparing Dark Side to Close to the or Supperīs is little silly to me. Itīs like comparing first Elvis records to greatest Frank Sinatra recordings sayin "Sinatra sucks cause Elvis rocks more".
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Posted By: Mortte
Date Posted: March 20 2018 at 03:15
| Really the truth is most people can take prog because itīs complexity (yes the long songs too). I think Floyd just succeeded to put together in Dark side their ambitions and something that hit the ordinary people (I still think on the run & great gig are too much to ordinary people). I donīt also believe there are lots of people today who listens Dark Side whole through, yes I can believe Money is in manyīs playlists, I really believe many doesnīt like even Time just because itīs too arty beginning. |
Posted By: Frankh
Date Posted: March 20 2018 at 03:16
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The most important factor to take into consideration is the times this release went out into. What was taking place culturally then. Especially, but not confined to America. ------------- Perhaps finding the happy medium is harder than we know. |
Posted By: Frenetic Zetetic
Date Posted: March 20 2018 at 03:54
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...And DSoTM is "bad" music (relative to other choices at the time) to my ears, hence this entire thread dude. You seem to be the one trying to defend a traditionalists view here. I've been nothing but reasonable in this thread and people act like my opinion instantly means I'm being stubborn or elitist and claiming fact, when in reality it's the PF fanbois trying to objectively and empirically prove this record. If anything, my point/opinion is arguing how collective consumer group consensus doesn't equate to artistic mastery of an artist/legendary recordings. Lots of people like this record and bought it. That doesn't mean it's the best record ever. Lots of people also enjoy abusing drugs. That doesn't mean that's a smart choice. This hilarity of me admitting this is all opinion, and people coming in and attempting to state opinions as fact, is beyond entertaining, though. More so than DSoTM!
Flip that the other way around, dude. PF fanbois are the ones who keep posting and reviving this thread. I've posted like 4 times in the last several pages, stating my same opinion.
Also comparing Dark Side to Close to the or Supperīs is little silly to me. Itīs like comparing first Elvis records to greatest Frank Sinatra recordings sayin "Sinatra sucks cause Elvis rocks more". Silly to you, and that's why it's called an opinion, just like this entire thread. I could say the same exact thing about your defense of DSoTM relative to everything you just said; DSoTM doesn't hit as hard as what came before and after IMHO. Who cares if it's silly, that's why it's an opinion and not an empirical fact.
This is the most concise portion of your argument, and is more inline with the type of discussion I was looking for in this thread, so thank you. ------------- "I am so prog, I listen to concept albums on shuffle." -KMac2021 |
Posted By: SteveG
Date Posted: March 20 2018 at 03:58
------------- This message was brought to you by a proud supporter of the Deep State. |
Posted By: Cristi
Date Posted: March 20 2018 at 04:25
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^ I don't see how is WYWH Dark Side... part 2. Sad to see DSotM getting bashed by some here. But I guess it's expected when you have "overrated" in the thread title.
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Posted By: dr prog
Date Posted: March 20 2018 at 04:41
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Half of it's boring. ------------- All I like is prog related bands beginning late 60's/early 70's. Their music from 1968 - 83 has the composition and sound which will never be beaten. Perfect blend of jazz, classical, folk and rock. |